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#sugar-meeting, 2010-11-27

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13:52 m_anish_afk is now known as m_anish
13:54 m_anish we've a meeting here in 6 mins right?
13:55 dfarning m_anish, yes
13:56 m_anish dfarning, ok
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13:59 dfarning m_anish, arjs good morning:)
13:59 does this time work for you?
14:00 m_anish dfarning, hola! it does for me.
14:00 dfarning bernie, tch, silbe, alsroot, SMParrish ping
14:01 silbe hello everyone!
14:01 walterbender_ tch: congrats re your thesis!!
14:01 dfarning nice. is it 7:30 PM for you?
14:01 alsroot hi all
14:01 tch hello everyone :)
14:01 dfarning: pong
14:02 walterbender: thanks :D
14:02 dfarning #startmeeting
14:02 meeting Meeting started Sat Nov 27 14:02:05 2010 UTC. The chair is dfarning. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:02 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
14:02 dfarning hmmm looks like bernie and SMParrish are sleeping in.
14:03 should we start with how best to create a Sugar-next branch -- for tch, alsroot, and silbe?
14:04 alsroot dfarning: is it a branch w/ dextrose related patches?
14:04 silbe dfarning: you should start by explaining what it is :)
14:05 dfarning alsroot, +1.  I am thinking of it as being similar to the linux-next branch.
14:06 alsroot dfarning: settling down upstream procedures may affect on sugar-next
14:06 dfarning we, can take aggregate all of the AC and deployment specific patches into a branch which OLPC and SL can cherry pick as needed.
14:06 arjs dfarning m_anish good morning/evening :) this time works well, this day especially (saturday)
14:07 dfarning alsroot,  yes, settling down upstream will help....
14:08 my concern is that we currently have a push development model.  Where it is up to AC and deployment to push their work into mainline.
14:08 silbe dfarning: we should wait for bernie before discussing that
14:09 alsroot silbe: +1 -- dfarning: meanwhile, sugar-next is more a deployment centric branch on top of upstream glucose projects(w/o activities)?
14:09 tch dfarning: is thereaanything else we can discuss meanwhile, until bernie and steven wake up, :)
14:09 silbe dfarning: I don't think push vs. pull will change in the near to medium term. We don't have dedicated maintainers upstream.
14:10 dfarning the -next model creates a pull model where others can pull the stuff they feel valuable?
14:10 silbe dfarning: who is "others"?
14:10 in terms of actual persons, I mean
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14:11 dfarning silbe, primarly AC, OLPC, and SL
14:13 alsroot dfarning: but original purpose of sugar-next is deployment centric direction?
14:13 silbe dfarning: as I see it, it's primarily Simon and me, with Simon on the OLPC side and me on the AC side.
14:13 both of us are also upstream maintainers
14:14 tch alsroot: i have the impression that is the idea behind
14:14 alsroot silbe: there is difference between just particular project and various downstream related needs (eg gray patches)
14:15 dfarning silbe, OLPC has expressed an interest in create an OLPC-next branch until SL has it maintainer situation figured out.
14:15 silbe alsroot: and how does that implicate a need for a repository that SL and OLPC can pull from?
14:16 dfarning: chances are we get the situation resolved before the repository has been created
14:16 I need a long chat with Simon yesterday and we made considerable progress
14:17 m_anish dfarning, is it meant to include stuff that isn't upstreamble by design/requirement? or is it required because we gave up trying (to push patches)?
14:17 silbe he wanted to give it a nights rest and will be offline during the weekend, but I expect us to be able to start discussion on the list on monday
14:19 alsroot silbe: to be honest, I pretty tired from ML discussions..
14:19 tch m_anish: for what i understand both scenarios are considered, actually dextrose is full of those kind of stuff/patches
14:19 alsroot silbe: I guess, if people have something to do, they just do :)
14:20 dfarning silbe, If so, that is great.... But my guess based on based history is that you and simon will agree on a a workflow.  but others will pipe up with reasons to veto patches and you will get into endless ml discussion.
14:20 silbe alsroot: Simon and I basically agreed on a new process, we just need to fix it down and have others agree with it.
14:20 alsroot silbe: is it related to engineering team or it is new new initiative? :)
14:21 silbe alsroot: I don't fully understand your engineering team, but AFAICT it's closely related :)
14:21 dfarning m_anish, both reasons.  There are legitimately reasons why we may differ from upstream/OLPC and there is a problem getting patches upstreamed.
14:22 silbe, is it your postion that a -next branch is unnecessary?
14:22 m_anish dfarning, tch, would it make sense then to give two directions to a single branch? (I frankly don't know and there are much better experienced ppl here than me ;-))
14:24 alsroot silbe: since I somehow described it on wiki, better to have something similar to what you and erikos came to agreement -- ie. not email post but wiki page (w/ all related things, thinking about org architecture etc)
14:24 silbe dfarning: at the moment I think it is. We can still create one later if the situation changes.
14:25 alsroot messed in guessing w/ what other think, and tends to think that other just don't care about it all and just reflect to ML posts
14:25 dfarning silbe, How should we deal with differences between AC and upstream?
14:25 silbe dfarning: if all patches that go into Dextrose go through me, there won't be a lot of patches that upstream will refuse.
14:26 tch m_anish: i think both are related, unstreamable stuff leads to a waste of efforts trying to get it pushed. But not all the custom feature should land on that category.
14:27 there will always be a need for downstream solutions, dextrose is s great platform for that.. what we have in py and uy now is a great example
14:29 dfarning OK, silbe is the patch master.  Let's support your efforts to mainline as much as possiable.  How about a hard date of two to revist this issues to see what sort of progess you and simon have made?
14:30 silbe dfarning: not sure what "of two" means, but otherwise agreed.
14:30 dfarning silbe:( two weeks.
14:31 silbe we will ask for a progress update on Dec 11.  Sound sane?
14:32 silbe dfarning: sounds good to me
14:33 m_anish tch, hmm, sugar-next is gonna contain a mix of stuff that isn't _meant_ to be upstreamed and stuff which we're trying to get pushed. How easy or difficult would the management of such a branch be? i don't know :/
14:34 dfarning ok. next topic -- how about the yum based updater?  alsroot did you get a chance to talk to smparish?
14:34 alsroot dfarning: didn't get pong from SMParrish
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14:36 dfarning m_anish, I agree that is the question.  I don't think any of us know.... but rather than force a decsion based on incomplete knowledge, let's see how things go over the next two week and readdress the issue with more knowledge.
14:36 m_anish dfarning, +1
14:37 dfarning alsroot, I'll try to get ahold of steven....
14:39 alsroot, In the mean time would it be possible for you to test the cron jobs you have in mind.  PY won't update until this issues is resolved.
14:40 alsroot, rather PY won't deploy dextrose until this is resolved.
14:40 alsroot dfarning: it should be trivial, will compose particular cron task in my fc11 VM
14:41 dfarning alsroot, thanks.
14:41 alsroot dfarning: will post results to ML yum-updater tread
14:42 dfarning is there anything else pressing?  From what I can tell everything else is starting to fall into place.
14:43 silbe alsroot: just in case: please remember to send the cron output to some permanent log location (e.g. by using logger if we keep /var/log on permanent storage)
14:43 dfarning: what about the email addresses?
14:44 alsroot silbe: I guess it will be overkill, if every XO will send daily reposrts
14:44 silbe alsroot: it should be saved for later inspection in case something went wrong, not sent to somebody to fill up the inbox.
14:45 alsroot silbe: it was Re to "what about the email addresses"
14:45 dfarning silbe, thanks, silbe set up email addresses for activitycentral.com can you all reply to the agenda thread with your prefered alias?
14:45 silbe alsroot: ^
14:46 (the ac.com addresses are not meant for updater logs ;) )
14:46 dfarning the email address is going to be our entire marketing for the next 4 month!
14:48 We are not going to go out and 'sell' what AC is doing. instead we will focus on showing that interesting and usefull stuff is being done by people with ac.com addresses.
14:49 silbe FYI: you can send to all mailing lists using your @ac.com address if you subscribe to a list and disable delivery (so you don't get the mails twice)
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14:49 silbe if you prefer, you can of course also unsubscribe with your "old" address and subscribe with the new one.
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14:50 dfarning ok, anything else. we are 11 minutes under the hour.
14:50 3
14:50 2
14:50 1
14:50 thanks everybody for a great week:)
14:50 #endmeeting
14:50 meeting Meeting ended Sat Nov 27 14:50:55 2010 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
14:50 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-27T14:02:05.html
14:50 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]10-11-27T14:02:05
14:51 silbe dfarning: that would have been too fast if I were still typing sth. :-P
14:51 dfarning silbe sorry -- I am the slowest typer I know:(  I
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14:52 dfarning silbe, I'll slow down the countdown next week:)
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14:53 silbe dfarning: thx :)
14:53 dfarning m_anish, do you have a departure date?
14:53 silbe have a nice day everyone!
14:54 m_anish dfarning, not yet, but its close
14:55 dfarning m_anish,  nice, They are looking forward to seeing you.
14:55 m_anish dfarning, :)
14:55 tch m_anish: i spoke to roberto, and hes waiting for you to start a few projects
14:57 m_anish tch, ok
14:58 tch m_anish: setting up and testing the updater would probably be your first task :)
14:58 m_anish tch, :)
14:59 tch m_anish: :)
14:59 dfarning m_anish, tch I think pairing you together will be very effective.  PY is doing some of the most interesting work.
15:01 tch dfarning, m_anish: they will when anish arrives ;
15:01 )
15:01 ;)
15:01 m_anish tch, heh
15:01 dfarning I think m_anish working with roberto and tch hacking from an undisturbed location will suit you both:)
15:03 tch dfarning: i think roberto is already working on isolating his team, and making others pyedu members to respect the communication mechanisms
15:04 hopefully it works out, i can't tell how it goes when it does not work.
15:06 dfarning tch, that is great.  And based on his push for the updater... he is making sure the needs of the education team are being communicated back to the tech team.
15:10 tch with the increasing number of laptops, and the very few technical personnel in caacupe, it would be a crazy to do a mass update without an updater
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16:35 bernie dfarning, silbe, alsroot: hello people... sorry I'm late
16:35 silbe bernie: you're not late, you're too early for the next meeting :-P
16:36 bernie <dfarning> hmmm looks like bernie and SMParrish are sleeping in.
16:36 this is exactly what happened to me :-(
16:36 but I have a great excuse: the gnu.org website was hacked yesterday night
16:36 silbe bernie: cool! ;)
16:36 how did they get in?
16:39 alsroot is posting to several news sites, "From our insider, fsf.org was hacked yesterday..."
16:40 bernie silbe: via savannah
16:40 silbe: sql injection
16:42 silbe: the cracker is a 16 years old kid in Tblisi, Georgia: http://vaska94.net/
16:45 cjb bernie: did you send him mail congratulating him?  ;-)
16:51 silbe bernie: nice :)
16:59 bernie cjb: we definitely should
16:59 cjb: he worked on it for 3 days...
16:59 silbe: have you seen the video demonstrating the crack? http://vaska94.net/2010/11/25/gnu-got-pwned/
17:14 silbe bernie: hmm, the interesting parts are missing... Have you figured it out yet?
17:28 bernie silbe: yes, there was an sql injection error in message.php. my colleague ward fixed it yesterday night.
17:29 silbe bernie: can you post the diff? I'd be curious what the code looked like exactly.
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