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#sugar-meeting, 2010-07-26

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Time Nick Message
15:07 mchua #chair pbrobinson sdziallas
15:07 #meetingname SoaS weekly meeting
15:07 satellit_, pbrobinson: ping
15:07 satellit_ listening
15:08 garycmartin waves
15:08 mchua Hey, garycmartin!
15:08 garycmartin mchua: hi!
15:08 mchua I'm guessing people may be in heads-down mode right now (got an SMS from sdziallas_afk that sounds like he's on a train and may be late) so this meeting is going to be more of an update of everything I can find about what's going on with SoaS at the moment.
15:08 There's plenty, and it's hard to keep up, so... keeping communication lines open is a good thing.
15:08 #topic Today's agenda
15:08 #note * Upcoming deadlines
15:08 #note * Features submitted for review
15:08 #note * Ticket status
15:08 #note * QA update
15:09 #note * post-processing scripts for the iso, update
15:09 #note * SoaS remixes
15:09 #note * Action items from last week
15:09 #note * Feature freeze
15:09 These should, fortunately, be relatively quick; I've got most of the updates queued up here, but please please please interrupt with questions and corrections and whatnot at any time.
15:09 hullo gangil! In the middle of the SoaS meeting right now.
15:09 So, let's start.
15:09 #topic Upcoming deadlines
15:09 #info July 27, 2010 (tomorrow!) is feature freeze, meaning that the list of approved features for the Mangolassi release will be finalized at the end of tomorrow.
15:09 #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/S[…]e_current_release
15:09 #note We'll come back to feature freeze at the end of this meeting: need to decide what to prioritize to push through in the next 24h
15:10 #topic Features submitted for review
15:10 #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/S[…]mitted_for_review
15:10 #info None in the queue right now, skipping this agenda item
15:10 ...those two should be relatively straightforward. It's also something that's cause for concern (at least to me personally) because feature freeze is tomorrow and we have very few features.
15:10 Now, that's not necessarily a bad thing; this is the first time we've had a feature process, and the features we do have look good, and they're going to be completed well.
15:11 I just want to make sure people aren't going to go "ZOMG FEATURE FREEZE WAS WHEN?" and panic and go "AAAH I MEANT TO GET THIS IN"
15:11 but notices have been going out for a while, so I think folks have had fair warning that this date was coming up, and have had that warning for months.
15:11 garycmartin mchua: Features == new activity versions inclusion, was never 100% clear on such feature definition.
15:12 mchua garycmartin: New versions of Activities already included in Mirabelle, or new Activities included that weren't in the last release at all?
15:12 satellit_ http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/S[…]_Your_Own_Remix_-.28not_included_on_SCK.DVD.29  wonder if it should be a "feature"
15:12 garycmartin mchua: Physics-5, Moon-11, Calculate-31 (Calculate-32 likely later today
15:13 mchua: I think old version were already in Fedora as packages.
15:13 mchua garycmartin: Yeah, I think yo'ure right - that *should* be a feature, making sure we have the most recent versions of Activities we're shipping.
15:14 pbrobinson is now here, sorry for the delay
15:14 mchua hullo pbrobinson, holler when you're done reading backlog.
15:15 satellit_: (we'll get to yours in a moment)
15:15 garycmartin mchua: fab. just wanted to make sure they were on the radar (I know the Soas team is already aware of the Read version fix for evince)
15:15 satellit_ : )
15:15 mchua garycmartin: It seems to me like that's a quick feature proposal and then a really quick +1, assuming someone's willing to own it (read: commit to doing the package updating work)
15:16 pbrobinson hollers
15:16 mchua w00t
15:16 thoughts, Peter?
15:16 I'm slamming together that feature proposal in the background right now with the versions garycmartin mentioned.
15:17 If that seems straightforward enough to everyone we can move on to satellit_'s idea.
15:17 garycmartin mchua: fab.
15:17 pbrobinson I think activities that were in SoaS-3 should be considered included in SoaS-4 as per my mail to the list. No one has bothered responding to regarding requests
15:18 garycmartin pbrobinson: no one else, I'm responding ;)
15:18 mchua nods, +1 to pbrobinson.
15:18 Basically, "no new Activies will be added to the list unless feature proposals make it in during the next 24h, but activities shipped in Mirabelle will be updated and shipped again."
15:19 Anyone want to own that feature?
15:19 satellit_ including fixed read?
15:19 mchua I can, wrt Activity testing and whatnot, but can't push updates to those packages so would be reliant on their owners to do so.
15:20 pbrobinson mchua: plus other fructose core activities that work. Such as Read :-)
15:20 mchua I'll throw a separate proposal up for that so we can list the new Activities separate from the old updated ones.
15:21 pbrobinson hasn't heard from Sean at all regarding the EU language feature
15:21 mchua nods
15:22 I'm queuing these up for discussion at the end when we get through everything else and figure out what to push for in the last day before feature freeze takes place.
15:22 satellit_ words-4 translates nicely
15:22 pbrobinson OK
15:22 mchua I'd like to take a moment and look at satellit_ 's proposal for "remixability of SoaS" as a feature.
15:22 pbrobinson mchua: link?
15:23 mchua Strictly speaking, it's something that worked last time too (as in, "people can make remixes using Mirabelle") but we never really highlighted it, and it might be nice to do so now that we have a reasonable base image and process for making such.
15:23 So it would be more for marketing, imo, making this a feature for Mangolassi.
15:23 hunts for link
15:23 satellit_ http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/S[…]_Your_Own_Remix_-.28not_included_on_SCK.DVD.29
15:23 pbrobinson thinks that the base SoaS would be the base remix
15:23 mchua pbrobinson: I think it'd be the base /for/ the remix, but yeah
15:24 satellit_ http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/S[…]Share_your_Custom.ks_File
15:24 pbrobinson mchua: that's what I meat :-D
15:24 mchua so, I'll note that the page isn't really in feature proposal format - and the specific instructions written down for it will likely change - but the *idea* of plugging "remixability" as a feature is something I personally like.
15:24 satellit_ only change for user: su -c 'yum install livecd-tools spin-kickstarts'
15:25 mchua All the technical work is done (i.e. "this is possible to do already") and any fixes we make are mostly to improve the user experience of making a remix.
15:25 I don't necessarily think the instructions as written are the best ones to give out as a final version, that's the part that'll need work - but I'd like to be able to highlight it for marketing purposes.
15:26 pbrobinson satellit_: I thought we already included the livecd-tools
15:26 mchua pbrobinson: Yeah, hence the "it's something that already works but we're just calling it a feature now" part. As far as I'm aware.
15:26 satellit_ did not know that...but spin-kickstarts are needed
15:27 mchua satellit_: Technically, not unless you want to base it off one of the existing kickstart files - the spin-kickstarts package gives you *all* the spin kickstart files, we can just have the instructions tell you to download a generic (and extremely commented) SoaS kickstart from some location.
15:27 thinking out loud
15:27 (instead of "let's grab *all* the spin kickstarts including lots that are unrelated to soas and which you probably don't care about anyhow)
15:28 satellit_ ok. The soas is well documented in f14(rawhide)
15:28 I am doing a daily one now and they work
15:29 mchua nods
15:29 So I'd be willing to help satellit_ write that as a feature profile real quick (maybe when we're done here) and batch-submit it with the rest for approval in the next day, if that's all right.
15:29 satellit_ http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/T[…]nstall_Test_Table
15:30 mchua I want to hustle things along because we've got some updates to go through, but we'll come back to feature proposals at the end.
15:30 #note "update packages of Mirabelle Activities" feature to be worked on and submitted for review
15:30 #note "test and include Fructose Activities that work (notably, Read)" feature to be worked on and submitted for review
15:30 #note "Remixability" feature to be worked on and submitted for review
15:31 #note "EU language feature" status to be looked at later in this meeting - unclear whether it will make this release or not
15:31 Moving on.
15:31 #topic Ticket status
15:31 #link http://tinyurl.com/soas-tickets
15:31 #note This list needs triaging, and we probably want to put this release's
15:31 pbrobinson mchua: we could include the base configs somewhere easy without pulling in all the other spins
15:31 mchua #action mchua to make sure Trac cleanup happens immediately following feature freeze (due: next meeting)
15:31 pbrobinson: would we need to package that separately to include it in the spin?
15:32 #note This list needs triaging, and we probably want to put this release's features in Trac once they have been determined (and mark them with a keyword)
15:32 (there we go, didn't finish typing this last time.)
15:33 Anyway, that's ticket status, it's hard for me to tell what's being prioritized in that queue and how it ties in with our feature list so I just want to do some housekeeping there.
15:33 hustles on
15:33 satellit_: (this topic real quick, then the next one is QA and I'll ask you for an update)
15:33 #topic post-processing scripts for the iso, update
15:33 pbrobinson, mtd: did you folks reach a conclusion? (this is re: "someone should just ask sdziallas and pbrobinson nicely if they'd mind terribly if someone suggested some patches / post-processing scripts for the soas spin .iso and promised to help maintain those patches / scripts for at least a few releases.")
15:34 Just wanted to make sure this got wrapped up.
15:34 pbrobinson mchua: yes
15:34 I'm aware of the details and they are basically what I thought
15:35 and what I covered when we got together with lmacken
15:36 mchua pbrobinson: cool, do those scripts need to be marked as a feature or tracked or anything or can we just mark this as done (and not have to check on it again)?
15:36 pbrobinson mark it as done
15:36 mchua #note This is done, no followup needed
15:36 #topic QA update
15:36 #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/S[…]s#Testing_process
15:36 satellit_, can you summarize what's going on with the current test image?
15:36 pbrobinson there's a few bits I'll pull in but its all mostly for things like spinning the SoaS release for XO
15:36 satellit_ https://bugzilla.redhat.com/sh[…]bug.cgi?id=617115
15:37 basically the anaconda puts fedora-logos in a different directory and prevents boot of soas
15:37 generic logos work
15:37 mchua #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/sh[…]bug.cgi?id=617115
15:38 satellit_ bruno@wolff.to
15:38 I know what this one is now. live.py needs to be changed to refer to the new
15:38 location of the vesa splash image. I'll work up a patch tonight and submit it
15:38 to the livecd list for acks. I'll also file a bug against generic logos.
15:38 pbrobinson satellit_: its already on the F14alpha blocker list. We don't need to deal with it
15:38 satellit_ As was pointed out on the livecd list, we want to be able to handle both the
15:38 new and the old locations so that we can support building from older repos with
15:38 the current livecd-creator. So while, I'll file a bug against generic-logos,
15:38 spins using generic-logos will continue to work in the meantime.
15:38 A patch has been agreed upon (approved) on the livecd list and I'll be getting
15:38 it applied and a new livecd-tools package built tonight.
15:38 ok
15:38 mchua It's good to know and be aware of it though because it does keep our generic test image from working atm.
15:39 satellit_ http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/T[…]able#Test_results
15:39 mchua We don't need to work on fixing it, as pbrobinson pointed out, but it's good that satellit_ is staying on top of things and can holler when it gets fixed and our weekly test images work again.
15:39 satellit_ detailed here
15:39 generic test remix available for testing on Tgillard
15:40 mchua #info Weekly test images are broken in upstream (Fedora 14 alpha blocker), upstream will fix it, use temporary test remix in the meantime for this week's testing.
15:40 satellit_ http://people.sugarlabs.org/Tg[…]v4-0725-Remix.iso
15:40 mchua #link http://people.sugarlabs.org/Tg[…]v4-0725-Remix.iso
15:40 satellit_: Thanks for putting that together - I've updated the test instructions page for this week with that info, and switch it back when the weekly build works again.
15:41 satellit_ caviat  need to set selinux 0 for presence service to function
15:41 mchua satellit_: If you're staying on top of that ticket, can you let the soas list know when it's closed and the nightly builds work again?
15:41 satellit_ glad to
15:41 mchua will add the selinux note to test instructions
15:41 Thanks.
15:41 Anything else from QA? Once we have our feature set frozen, we can also start running tests against those features.
15:41 #info Once we have our feature set frozen, we can also start running tests against those features.
15:42 #info We still don't have a good test case/results reporting and management system
15:42 ...but oh well.
15:42 Anything else?
15:42 looks around
15:42 Almost done.
15:42 pbrobinson mchua: I don't have anything else
15:42 satellit_ http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/F[…]vity_Test_Results  for tests
15:42 mchua #topic SoaS remixes
15:43 I think we mostly covered this earlier, but if we make "remixability" a feature we have the opportunity to do some cool marketing stuff around it in conjunction with both the Sugar Labs Marketing ("Sugar users, see/use what other people have remixed, and make your own!") and Fedora Marketing teams ("Look how Fedora's tools let you remix stuff!")
15:43 That's something we can look at later, after feature freeze, and the feature proposal should take care of the rest.
15:43 so I'd like to just move on here.
15:43 Last thing, and the big one.
15:43 #topic Feature freeze
15:43 pbrobinson mchua: the only concern i have is expectation of support
15:44 and the naming of the "remixes"
15:44 mchua pbrobinson: Right, I'm going to write a giant "make it clear that if you remix it, you support your remix!" note into the feature proposal.
15:44 Hrm
15:44 Naming, yeah.
15:45 satellit_ if the .ks is e-mailed to us...we can change nameing to conform
15:45 mchua pbrobinson: Any particular thoughts? I was just going to suggest "SoaS <foo> Remix" by default.
15:45 satellit_ before listing shared .ks
15:46 pbrobinson mchua: mostly through the fact there has been issues with naming in the past and a precident was set so I think we need to uphold that
15:46 mchua pbrobinson: would you want to put any requirements for naming on the feature proposal?
15:46 satellit_ # Get proper release naming in the control panel
15:46 cat >> /boot/olpc_build << EOF
15:46 Soas-v4-Mangolassi
15:46 Fedora 14(rawhide)
15:46 EOF
15:47 pbrobinson satellit_: can you please not dump scripts to the channel
15:47 mchua: yes, I think we should but I need to think about it further. Brain a little fried today
15:47 satellit_ sorry thought we could edit if not correct after shared ,ks were sent to us
15:48 mchua is mostly going for the "technologically, it is possible to remix and customize your SoaS .iso using M{irabelle,angolassi} as a base" thing, no formal "You can Make a Remix!!" campaign/infra/support being trumpeted just yet.
15:48 pbrobinson: Yeah, me too.
15:48 pbrobinson: If you think you'll be slightly more awake tomorrow we can meet then, whenever's good for you.
15:48 or... mailing list. I can mailing list this.
15:50 pbrobinson possibly, or an agenda item for next week
15:50 mchua Anyway, by my count we have 5 features that are somewhere in "being written but not yet proposed" state that we may want to push through before feature freeze at the end of tomorrow.
15:51 Right now, we have 2 features: (1) updated sugar 0.90 and (2) Revised Browse default bookmarks.
15:51 The 5 we may want to push through are:
15:51 * more robust iso (overlay doesn't break / liveusb-creator stuff)
15:51 * update packages of Mirabelle activities
15:51 * include Fructose activites that work (notably, Read)
15:51 * EU language feature?
15:51 * Remixability
15:51 I plan on pushing through with #1, and should get it ready by the end of today.
15:51 I want to push #2 and #3 by default and will make sure those are written up today as well, should be pretty straightforward.
15:52 pbrobinson I think #2 should be a default expectation and not a feature.
15:52 or a default feature
15:52 unless there's an explicit reason to remove an Activity such as lack of maintenance
15:53 mchua Point taken - I'm thinking about how Fedora lists significantly updated packages as features (new Java stuff, new Python version, GNOME 3, etc) but I agree that feature should be in by default.
15:53 pbrobinson #4 is dependant on Sean and I've not heard a peep even to direct mails
15:53 mchua pbrobinson: Ok, so if he doesn't push that through by the end of tomorrow we're going to have to drop it?
15:54 pbrobinson mchua: agreed and we have that for sugar 0.90 but they don't do it unless there's major improvemnets for minor things.
15:54 mchua re: Sean, are we sure he's aware of that deadline? (I know you've been direct-mailing him but if someone can show up at the Marketing meeting tomorrow and point it out to make sure, that might be good)
15:55 pbrobinson mchua: he's seend and commented and I've emailed him directly and CC:ed the SoaS list and got no response
15:55 mchua Okay, so I think we can consider Sean informed.
15:56 I'd love EU language support for this version, but if it isn't pushed through, it isn't pushed through.
15:56 Doesn't mean work can't still happen on that functionality, but it won't be listed as an official feature for the release (maybe next release, if it's done by then).
15:56 satellit_ can it be done by remix?
15:57 pbrobinson mchua: I'm happy to keep working towards it if someone has a link to EU commision requirements that aren't a gigaton of political documentation that I don't have the time to read
15:59 mchua satellit_: Yeah, someone who wants to make a remix can totally mix that functionality in.
15:59 pbrobinson: Ok - and I'll try to push forward the "remixability" feature as well, but "more robust iso" is my top priority wrt getting stuff done in the next 24h.
16:00 So, to summary:
16:00 er, summarize:
16:00 pbrobinson mchua: I agree on the more robust stuff. How's it going with the dev side?
16:00 mchua I still have no freakin' clue how to do the Windows side.
16:01 but I'll start by trying to slide Bernie's script in - I think between your notes and Luke's and mtd's and bernie's, I might be able to cobble it together - and see how that goes.
16:01 I mean, it's possible, it just needs to be *done.*
16:01 pbrobinson I might be able to spend a little time on some details over the weekend. I now (as of 30 mins ago) have broad band at home again so will have connectivity for all my machines
16:02 mchua Okay. I'll document my dev setup then and make sure I push everything before I fly to China (Friday morning).
16:02 The thing with liveusb-creator is that lmacken and basically only lmacken has ever hacked on it.
16:02 pbrobinson mchua: can we not bribe luke for an hour or two of his time between no and F-14 beta?
16:02 mchua So the code is clean and fine and all but there are invisible things stored inside Luke's brain that I'm sure I'll hit and have to just pull out of him.
16:03 pbrobinson: I talked with him about it, no hope... I'm going to have to charge at it and hit those walls and nag him about them
16:03 pbrobinson sigh
16:03 mchua He's willing to be responsive, but not to drive the work, too much on his plate atm
16:03 so we can pull answers out of him if we push questions but that's about it.
16:03 pbrobinson OK
16:03 mchua Yeah, not ideal but eh.
16:04 #action mchua drive forward liveusb-creator overlay fix feature
16:04 pbrobinson well let me know where I can help. I'll do my best and I have access to various bits to test
16:04 mchua #action mchua write up "update packages" feature, submit to list - garycmartin, I'll ping you to proofread shortly
16:04 #action mchua write up "fructose activities" feature, submit to list
16:04 (those last two should be incredibly straightforward)
16:04 garycmartin mchua: cool
16:05 mchua #action pbrobinson push on EU language support feature, which may or may not make it into Mangolassi depending on whether Sean responds
16:05 #info pbrobinson willing to continue work on EU language support feature independent of whether or not it's an official Mangolassi feature
16:06 #info mchua write up "remixability" feature with satellit_ and push to list
16:06 I think we're done, anything else?
16:06 Again, this meeting has been overly pedantic for the purposes of making sure everyone is up to date ;)
16:07 pbrobinson nope. looks good to me
16:07 mchua looks around
16:07 satellit_ +1
16:08 mchua Thanks, everyone - I know it's probably a crazy time, so I appreciate people continuing to push things through.
16:08 A particular shout-out to garycmartin on the Activities updates ping and to satellit_ on QA and staying atop the daily builds.
16:08 #action mchua to update QA instructions for this week
16:08 (just so I don't forget)
16:08 Aaaand we're done!
16:08 #endmeeting

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