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#sugar-meeting, 2010-07-19

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Time Nick Message
16:52 jelkner Is there a way with this application to recall agreed statements from last week?
16:52 that would be a great way to begin
16:53 walterbender jelkner: not that I know of... we'd need to look at the minutes on the web
16:53 jelkner searches for the minutes
16:54 walterbender http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]0100712_1703.html
16:55 jelkner 17:48:58ACTIONwalterbenderJamie to a menu item in our Ubuntu TA version to upload to TA to our server
16:55 Jamie, what is the status of this?
16:55 jboisture?
16:56 walterbender #aside walterbender added white and black blocks as per jelkner's request
16:56 jboisture thats my plan for tonight
16:56 jelkner walterbender great!
16:56 jboisture I wanted to ask where you think it should go and how it should behave
16:57 walterbender jboisture: I assume that the project to be uploaded would be the current project
16:57 jelkner #ACTION jelkner should ask mattva01 to make a new .deb package tomorrow
16:57 walterbender jboisture: and that we'd generate a bitmap from the time of the upload request
16:58 jboisture yes that's what I was thinking
16:58 walterbender we need to still think about the autologin part
16:58 and we could prompt for a title, description, etc.
16:58 jelkner and user and password
16:59 jboisture yes thats what I was wonder should that be a pop up window?
16:59 walterbender jelkner: it would be nice to store a cookie or use an ssh key
16:59 jboisture and how will that behave in sugar I've never used them there?
16:59 walterbender jboisture: there is a dialog window used already for loading images, python code, etc.
16:59 jelkner walterbender, i wonder how to make that friendly enough for children
17:00 user name and password they can handle
17:00 not sure about ssh key
17:00 walterbender jelkner: yeah... passwords are no fun. from Sugar, we have a public/private keypair available
17:00 jboisture yeah especially if they're going to be sharing computers in a lab just easier to have username and password
17:00 jelkner walterbender, i have to agree
17:00 walterbender jboisture: not just as easy... but common practice
17:01 jelkner the use case is a bit different here
17:01 walterbender jboisture: the Sugar approach is much easier
17:01 jelkner on sugar itself we can assume one kid one computer
17:01 jboisture hmm.. well I think matt had an idea on how to handle it
17:01 jelkner not so on our lab machines
17:01 we have kids come in and take enrichment classes
17:02 they use a guest logon most of the time
17:02 walterbender jelkner: give the kids a USB key with there signature
17:02 jelkner that means we have to buy each kid a USB stick
17:02 and when they loose it, the flow is disrupted
17:02 walterbender jelkner: then use an anon login for the lab and prompt the kids to sign their work
17:03 that way you simplify the workflow in the lab and keep a reasonable level of security.
17:04 jelkner walterbender, i wish mattva01 was here to chime in on this
17:05 seems to me the "simplest thing that will work" is just user name / password authentication
17:05 the website already supports easy recovery of lost passwords, too
17:05 rgs_ is sorry for being lat
17:05 e
17:05 walterbender rgs_: we were early... you are on time.
17:05 jelkner it sends you an email and then permits you to reset your password if you forget
17:05 hi rgs_
17:06 walterbender jelkner: I assert that no password is simpler than having a password...
17:06 jelkner walterbender, not if it doesn't work
17:06 walterbender jelkner: as long as the lab machines all have public/private keypairs, the kids dn't need them
17:07 jelkner so, i go to the library and use the machine there
17:07 walterbender jelkner: if the lab machines lose their keys, there are more serious problems...
17:07 jelkner if TA is on the machine, how do i upload my artwork?
17:08 walterbender jelkner: I was just suggesting that if the key is there, use it. If not, use a password.
17:08 jelkner oh, cool!
17:08 that works for me ;-)
17:08 walterbender jelkner: but we can put keys on the machines we control
17:08 jelkner sure
17:08 first, let's implement the user name / password authentication
17:08 so we have something that works
17:08 and can test it
17:09 then we can add other kinds of authentication
17:09 using keys
17:09 since i'll be testing this first
17:10 and the students in our summer program can use the authentication they already have on the site.
17:10 does that make sense?
17:11 rgs_ can we actually have 3 possibilities? 1) no user/password (anonymous uploads) 2) using an ssh key and 3) using user/pass
17:12 jelkner rgs_, anonymous uploads may present a problem
17:12 someone could attach the site by just continually uploading stuff
17:12 and we would not be able to stop it
17:12 rgs_ well.. we can mitigate that from the web server
17:13 most web servers provide functionality to limit request/sec
17:13 and for testing it will make life muuuch easier
17:14 jelkner this whole conversation brings up another issue that we need to discuss...
17:14 to whom will jboisture hand this over when august 7 rolls around?
17:15 while i'm funding his internship, i'll want him to deliver immediate value to my current students
17:15 that means keeping things simple so he can get them finished and deployed in time for us to use
17:15 after he goes back to school
17:15 someone else will need to take over
17:16 in fact, we need to make sure the website is turned over as well
17:16 walterbender jelkner: well, rgs_ and I are the maintainers of TA, so the buck stops here (and in Asuncion)
17:16 jelkner great
17:16 rgs_ dale yup
17:16 jelkner i talked to matt about this this morning
17:16 rgs_ (ooops, sorry for the Spanish)
17:16 (btw, code has been uploaded to git.sugarlabs.org, right?)
17:17 walterbender jelkner: but the website is another matter... be nice to get the infra team in the loop.
17:17 jelkner we should have walterbender and rgs_ be the owners of turtleartsite.appspot.com
17:17 or whomever you designate
17:17 rgs_ would be nice if either Walter or me could get commit access for future maintainership
17:17 jelkner rgs_, we need to get you and walterbender all the control of everything by august 7
17:17 sooner would be better of course
17:18 jboisture, you said the project is not in git yet?
17:18 jboisture?
17:18 jboisture correct, I can put that up later today and add you two to the appengine app
17:19 jelkner please do that asap
17:19 tomorrow we can confirm that it is done
17:19 by email
17:19 that was the main agenda item i had
17:20 anything else we need to discuss?
17:20 jboisture well in the more short term is there anyone who could lend a hand to help designing the app?
17:20 walterbender rgs_: did you get far enough into the browse code to make any comment on upload/cookies/etc?
17:21 jboisture: I think a simple open dialog should do the trick.
17:21 rgs_ walterbender: I was thinking of using urllib.. not resuing Browse code
17:21 walterbender: its only a POST..
17:22 walterbender: (urllib supports cookies - i havent use it in a while but it was straight forward back in the days)
17:22 walterbender: (and urllib is avail on F11)
17:23 walterbender rgs_: OK. I guess from the GNOME app, that is fine.. on the Sugar side, I suppose it means doing this from TA (or from browse through standard mechanisms)
17:24 rgs_: does wget use urllib?
17:24 rgs_ walterbender: good question , let me do ldd $(which wget)
17:24 walterbender: probably not.. I guess they use some other http lib
17:25 walterbender: cant see it depends on any lib that seems to provide HTTP stuff. Maybe wget implements all of it on its own
17:25 walterbender: why btw?
17:26 walterbender rgs_: just curious... wget seems to be on every GNU/Linux
17:27 rgs_ walterbender: not sure it can post multipart/form-data though
17:28 walterbender: but out of the box Python provides at least 3 different ways to do this.. so we'll probably won't need to reach out to system binaries
17:28 (urllib, urllib2 or httplib)
17:29 walterbender in Python is better...
17:30 jelkner walterbender, jboisture, rgs_ my wife is calling me for dinner
17:30 walterbender jelkner, jboisture: I have pushed a number of patches to TB in the past week...
17:30 rgs_ walterbender: (wget actually supports POST, just in case)
17:30 walterbender jelkner: CU
17:30 jelkner ok, everyone, i'll ask matt to build a new package tomorrow
17:30 then we'll get the students testing it right away
17:30 same time next week?
17:31 walterbender jboisture: be sure to grab fresh bits from mainline
17:31 rgs_ git url to the code would be nice to have
17:31 walterbender OK for me (I think)
17:31 jelkner jboisture, rgs_?
17:31 jboisture works for me
17:31 walterbender jelkner: don't forget to #endmeeting
17:31 rgs_ not ok for me, I'll be travelling
17:31 jelkner i won't
17:31 walterbender rgs_: bon voyage :)
17:31 jelkner rgs_, when would be better?
17:32 rgs_ Tuesday same time
17:32 jelkner fine with me
17:32 walterbender, jboisture?
17:32 jboisture I can do that
17:32 walterbender both prob. work for me... let's say Tues.
17:32 rgs_ great, Tuesday 9:00pm UTC it is then?
17:33 jelkner #AGREED Next TA meeting - Tuesday, July 26
17:33 at 9 pm UTC
17:33 walterbender jelkner: pretty fancy :)
17:33 rgs_ great
17:33 jelkner #endmeeting
15:06 garycmartin lurking
15:06 sdziallas #TOPIC Sugar on a Stick Weekly Meeting (2010/07/19)
15:06 hi Gary!
15:06 garycmartin sdziallas: Hi!
15:06 sdziallas #LINK http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/S[…]k_meetings#Agenda
15:07 That's cool, we've quite a crowd here! :)
15:07 Alright, let's get started.
15:07 #TOPIC SoaS v4 Release Schedule
15:08 We're approaching feature freeze, which is happening on July 27.
15:08 I'm tempted to say that we should probably look at the liveusb-creator stuff and activities at some point.
15:08 raffael May I ask for he language/Keyboard selection?
15:09 sdziallas raffael: sure thing, go ahead
15:09 pbrobinson raffael: is there a feature request on the wiki?
15:10 raffael Sorry - don not know. Please give me hint and I will take care of that request thing.
15:11 sdziallas raffael: you mean language / keyboard selection in the control panel or at the first screen when the student selects his color scheme?
15:12 raffael At the first screen.
15:12 sdziallas ah, okay! that's something walterbender was working on, if I recall correctly. I wonder if that's going to make it into sugar 0.90.
15:13 garycmartin raffael: Walter has done some work on that, not sure how far he got, but it was a nice simple Sugar friendly design.
15:13 sdziallas garycmartin: I think I've seen mock ups somewhere, but I'm not sure about it's state, either.
15:13 I'll make sure to ask the list about it.
15:14 #action sdziallas to email the lists about walter's improved first screen.
15:14 garycmartin sdziallas: We seemed to be backtracking last I read, perhaps even suggestions of removing the colour picker at first boot :(
15:15 sdziallas garycmartin: uh! I... mhm. well, I'll make sure to revive that convo then, because it'd be a pity to miss deadlines (sugar-wise) again.
15:15 we also haven't had much echo on the activity selection email pbrobinson sent out, which I'm kinda sad about.
15:16 (I'll walk through stuff here, I guess it all belongs to the schedule thing.)
15:17 pbrobinson sdziallas: everyone must be happy then :-|
15:17 garycmartin sdziallas: The block for me is the Fedora packaging thing. Not something I'm comfortable with or have much knowledge of.
15:17 sdziallas garycmartin: I'm glad you're raising such points. Thank you! :)
15:17 garycmartin: I don't think this is something we want to ask the activity authors to do all by themselves.
15:18 I think the communication (in the email I sent out about the proposed guidelines) might have been a little unclear.
15:18 garycmartin sdziallas: I currently don't even have a sane place to upload the source bundles for any one who was interested to package.
15:18 pbrobinson garycmartin: can you not put them on people.sl.o?
15:19 sdziallas garycmartin: oh, okay! is... there some place we could make, or is this something we should talk to bernie about?
15:19 garycmartin I don't have access.
15:19 (anymore)
15:20 sdziallas: alsroot seems to be considering the possibility of making source uploads go to also in some way, as part of the same upload process for .xo that we are all used to.
15:21 sdziallas (in terms of packaging, I wanted to say that if an activity author wants to work with us, I think we'd be very much willing to maintain an activity that's becoming part of SoaS in Fedora. that's my take, though.)
15:21 garycmartin sdziallas: that way every activity developer does not need shell access!
15:21 sdziallas garycmartin: ah, so the shell access thing is a blocker?
15:22 garycmartin: if so, a.sl.o would make that easier, yup.
15:22 alsroot: do you know what's needed to make that happen?
15:23 alsroot sdziallas: the situation is not so clear, AMO is switched to django, thus we need to do the same earlier or later..
15:23 garycmartin sdziallas: shell access is good if you are a hard core Sugar dev, but I think it's over the top to expect most activity developers to jump the hoops.
15:24 sdziallas garycmartin: that's an intersting point (I think mchua would probably add some stuff here)... yeah, especially in terms of an entry barrier
15:24 alsroot sdziallas: but anyway, ASLO seems to be more convenient choice in comparing w/ ssh account
15:24 and I'm implementing more or less related stuff right now
15:25 garycmartin alsroot: +1
15:25 sdziallas alsroot: yup, I think that makes sense. well, for activity maintainers, at least. but I don't want to create a struggle between developers and maintainers (instead, it should be about finding a way how they could work better together).
15:26 garycmartin sdziallas: not sure I understand the distinction developers/maintainers?
15:26 alsroot sdziallas: anyway, two things will be accessible for packagers, source tarballs and deps info
15:26 sdziallas #action kick off convo about how to lower the entry barrier to activity development and releases?
15:26 alsroot: ah, that's cool!
15:26 garycmartin: maintainers as in package maintainers :)
15:27 garycmartin sdziallas: thanks, got it :)
15:27 sdziallas would like to move on, but I don't think this is something that SL itself should ignore.
15:28 anything else in terms of the release schedule?
15:28 raffael One more? I know there is a thread about the boot helper cd ... as far as I can see there is no one for mirabelle - or should the strawberry-one generally work?
15:28 sdziallas we should probably send out another reminder. the next meeting is the last chance to raise a new feature.
15:30 garycmartin sdziallas: was never quite sure, are activities features?
15:31 sdziallas raffael: there's a script with which people can create a boot helper from their own copy of SoaS (that saves us the trouble of creating a boot helper for every snapshot). I'm not entirely sure whether it's still needed with Mirabelle or not. Feedback on that would be cool!
15:31 garycmartin sdziallas: I was wondering what the state of evince/Read was, would hate to see another release without working PDF support.
15:32 sdziallas garycmartin: generally, I think new activities proposed for inclusion should be features (at the very least raised on list, but if they are features, we can better track things)
15:32 garycmartin: the last I heard was that it's still broken and that Activity Central (for which I don't speak) might take on responsibility for that at some point.
15:32 pbrobinson raffael: there isn't currently one for soas-3. What is the use case that you need it for out of interest?
15:34 raffael pbrobinson: I personally have to notebooks not running from an usb stick - i guess it's a needed feature.
15:34 garycmartin sdziallas: thanks, I'm sure I read that Sayamindu said the bindings were up to date and that there was some other issue, maybe I just eat too much cheese that night and dreamt it.
15:35 sdziallas garycmartin: I think it's true, let me find the ticket.
15:35 pbrobinson raffael: they won't boot?
15:36 sdziallas garycmartin: http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/1900
15:36 alsroot sdziallas: btw what do you thing if every activity will be identified by url like http://services.sugarlabs.org/gcompris, and this page will have a link to current sources tarball
15:36 raffael pbrobinson: no way it's a vaio and of course my macbook ...;-)
15:36 pbrobinson garycmartin: do you know what version of Read that is?
15:36 sdziallas alsroot: that would be awesome!! I think reliable source URLs would be very helpful for packaging :)
15:36 pbrobinson raffael: macbook is known issue, hoping to have it fixed for SoaS-4.
15:36 garycmartin sdziallas: thanks. Is there a recent SoaS iso I could test? Seem to be broken at the moment.
15:37 pbrobinson raffael: is the vaio EFI Based?
15:37 sdziallas garycmartin: the thing is that I haven't seen much noise on the bug report...
15:37 raffael pbrobinson: yes.
15:37 sdziallas garycmartin: we're now moving weekly builds intended for testing every thursday here: http://download.sugarlabs.org/soas/test/
15:37 garycmartin: these might not work, though, so if nothing else, Mirabelle is still a good guess.
15:38 pbrobinson raffael: can you try the 64 bit version of SoaS-3 from spins.fedoraproject.org and email the soas list with how it goes?
15:38 raffael pbrobinson: O.K. I will try...
15:39 garycmartin sdziallas: thanks, have Mirabelle as well (my main Sugar image at the moment)
15:39 sdziallas garycmartin: ah, that's awesome :)
15:39 moves on quickly to see what else we've left.
15:39 #TOPIC Feature Requests
15:39 pbrobinson raffael: basically there's an over issue with the linux kernel. It can't boot a 32 bit kernel from 64 bit EFI
15:39 sdziallas #NOTE list of feature requests is empty, nothing to do.
15:40 satellit_Acer http://download.sugarlabs.org/[…]6-20100623.16.iso  worked
15:40 garycmartin pbrobinson: Not sure of the Read version, might just be in git at the moment. Will try and poke.
15:40 sdziallas #TOPIC Testing Process
15:40 satellit_Acer: ah, awesome! :) garycmartin, there you go!
15:40 raffael Btw: are there defined test procedures/cases?
15:41 sdziallas #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/S[…]s#Testing_process
15:41 raffael sdzillas: Thanks!
15:41 sdziallas raffael: you might want to look at that :) (the answer is "no, but satellit has been working on stuff, we could use lots of help because it's just a giant load of stuff")
15:41 satellit_Acer http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/S[…]rocess#Test_image
15:42 garycmartin satellit_Acer: thanks, downloading.
15:42 sdziallas #note sdziallas is talking to Fedora QA to get us a test day. tentative date is currently Aug 19.
15:43 pbrobinson sdziallas: yay
15:43 sdziallas moving on? :)
15:43 satellit__ garymartin http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/T[…]able#Test_results  listed here
15:43 sdziallas unmadindu: do you know about the state of Read?
15:44 well, moving on, I guess.
15:45 #TOPIC mtd's scripts and patches
15:45 unmadindu sdziallas: it does not work with latest evince
15:45 sdziallas unmadindu: so what options do we have there?
15:46 unmadindu sdziallas: someone needs to take over and port it to the latest evince API (and that may require fiddling with the python-evince bindings as well)
15:47 garycmartin unmadindu: ouch.
15:47 sdziallas garycmartin: exactly my thoughts.
15:48 pbrobinson so for evince we're still in the same position we were 3 months ago.
15:49 sdziallas #note read is presumably not going to be fixed in time for v4. holler on list.
15:50 pbrobinson sdziallas: we still have a couple of months before final release
15:50 garycmartin unmadindu: I'll take a look, but I think this is seriously out of my league.
15:50 satellit_Acer any way to install a previous version of evince in soas .ks?
15:51 sdziallas I don't think we can just do that; given that Fedora ships the latest version of evince.
15:51 pbrobinson: that's true :)
15:51 pbrobinson satellit_Acer: no
15:52 sdziallas pbrobinson: you posted on list already about mtd's script, right?
15:52 pbrobinson after all there's been well over 6 months since the chance
15:52 change even!
15:52 sdziallas: yes. I'm up to speed on them
15:53 sdziallas pbrobinson: awesome!
15:53 I think we can wrap up then.
15:54 #note pbrobinson is up to speed on mtd's scripts
15:54 anything else we should talk about?
15:54 #TOPIC Open Floor
15:56 Okeydokey.
15:56 Closing, thanks everybody for attending!
15:56 #endmeeting

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