| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 15:03 | sdziallas | I'd like to keep this really short this week. |
| 15:03 | mchua | What do we have from last week's meeting? |
| 15:03 | sdziallas | #link http://me.etin.gs/sugar-meetin[…]0100705_1502.html |
| 15:04 | #topic Weekly SoaS Meeting (2010/07/12) | |
| 15:05 | satellit_Acer | listening |
| 15:05 | sdziallas | looks at agenda. |
| 15:05 | #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/S[…]k_meetings#Agenda | |
| 15:05 | mchua | Feature freeze is fast upon us. |
| 15:05 | sdziallas | #info Feature Freeze approaching quickly. |
| 15:05 | Jinx. | |
| 15:05 | #action send out reminder notes about feature freeze | |
| 15:06 | mchua | No new feature proposals in the queue this week, but we'd best get those through quickly if we want them at all. |
| 15:06 | Activities in particular... I'd be up for scheduling a sprint to push through Activity feature proposals kicking-forward. | |
| 15:06 | sdziallas | #info no new feature proposals this week |
| 15:06 | pbrobinson | mchua: Is this still planned http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/More_robust_iso |
| 15:06 | sdziallas | #action activity inclusion discussion to happen on list |
| 15:06 | (if that's okay with everybody?) | |
| 15:07 | pbrobinson | sdziallas: That was the other thing I said I would do and didn't. Will do it after the meeting |
| 15:07 | sdziallas | pbrobinson: okeydokey :) thanks! |
| 15:07 | satellit__ | http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/F[…]tivity_Test_Table is up to date |
| 15:07 | mchua | pbrobinson: It is, but I've gotten lmacken radio silence since last time we talked, I'll nudge him harder about the deadline. |
| 15:07 | sdziallas: sure, I can take the activity inclusion discussion action item, too | |
| 15:08 | sdziallas: did you take the reminder-notes-about-feature-freeze one, or is that up for grabs? | |
| 15:08 | sdziallas | mchua: I rambled very few about that at the end of last meeting. |
| 15:08 | mchua: can do that. | |
| 15:08 | cool. moving on? | |
| 15:09 | #topic Testing Process | |
| 15:09 | I think we need a cron job to be scheduled for that, right? | |
| 15:09 | #link http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/2058 | |
| 15:10 | satellit__ | nightly composes still not working |
| 15:10 | sdziallas | I dunno how to do that, anybody? I'd be willing to be walked through that process. |
| 15:10 | mchua | I have a script from ctyler, the cron job just needs to call it. |
| 15:11 | pbrobinson | mchua: who can add the cron job? |
| 15:11 | mchua | sdziallas: do you have sudo on dl.sl.o? that's what's needed to do it. |
| 15:11 | (I think. Whatever server the files are hosted on, we need someone with root access, iirc.) | |
| 15:11 | sdziallas | mchua: it's sunjammer.sl.o. |
| 15:11 | I don't think I do. | |
| 15:11 | mchua | I don't. |
| 15:12 | I'll take the action of harassing someone who does to execute that ticket. :) | |
| 15:12 | will do that now in the background as the remainder of the meeting proceeds | |
| 15:12 | sdziallas | Actually, I might have. |
| 15:12 | Okay. We can figure that out. | |
| 15:13 | #topic mtd's talking points | |
| 15:13 | pbrobinson: lets defer that, right? :) | |
| 15:13 | pbrobinson | sdziallas: yes please. |
| 15:13 | sdziallas | #action deferred to next week. |
| 15:14 | Next up would be what we want to work on? | |
| 15:14 | mchua | Zooming out for a moment - what's the most important (not urgent, but important) thing we have to do to make SoaS kick ass? |
| 15:14 | sdziallas | #topic The Big Image |
| 15:15 | more robust iso and activities. | |
| 15:15 | mchua | Which is, imo, how we should pick what we want to work on. ;) I think most of us have a general idea of this already, for ourselves. |
| 15:15 | sdziallas | the former one being the more important one. |
| 15:15 | imho. | |
| 15:15 | pbrobinson | I'm working on getting a couple of Apple related issues fixed so we have better support on Mac devices |
| 15:15 | sdziallas | pbrobinson and mdomsch ftw :) |
| 15:16 | garycmartin | pbrobinson: fab :) |
| 15:18 | mchua | a clear testing-feedback-development-release loop, so we have a way to get feedback and react to it. |
| 15:20 | pbrobinson | a more stable USB key "Sugar on a Stick" environment, and an easy way for non tech users to be able to use that more stable environment. Not really me, but helping out on it |
| 15:21 | satellit__ | non-compressed fs version +1 |
| 15:21 | mchua | (feedback/testing from non-technical folks - specifically, teachers using it in classrooms - I should clarify.) |
| 15:22 | JT4sugar | mchua, You should reach out to Gerald Ardito XO/SoaS pilots in New York for help on that one |
| 15:23 | mchua | JT4sugar: Absolutely. We do'nt have much for them to look at/help with atm, but I'll keep talking about everything I'm doing on the lists, so he should see them. |
| 15:24 | just hasn't been having time to do much lately, hence the being-quiet-on-the-lists - everything I do basically goes there. | |
| 15:24 | pbrobinson | is pretty much the same |
| 15:24 | sdziallas | yup me too. |
| 15:24 | mchua | caught lmacken in the background, btw, and is currently getting a braindump on liveusb-creator - update is that lmacken has no time but he's currently trying to braindump to unblock us on doing the work he was originally going to pick up. |
| 15:25 | pbrobinson | excellent. |
| 15:26 | JT4sugar | mchua, It's summer time he just finished his PHD on Sugar in Classroom so a personal ping may be the way to go. Not everyone keeps up with the lists so it could be missed. He would be extremely helpful in designing the test and feedback from the Teachers |
| 15:27 | mchua | JT4sugar: I agree, but I'm also *really* hosed right now, so if you could start that ping (email both of us kicking off the convo) it would help |
| 15:28 | JT4sugar | mchua, I can do the facilitation. Is what you have at moment the info on Wiki page about testing? |
| 15:28 | mchua | I have 2 talks and a trip to China to prep for in the next 4 days while being full-time in a team retreat and managing a curriculum redesign, so starting yet another conversation I may not be able to handle very well (due to lack of bandwidth) just... can't be very high up on my priority list right now, to be completely honest. |
| 15:28 | JT4sugar: Yes, the wiki page is up to date. | |
| 15:29 | everything I've got is always on the wiki or the list (after which it moves to the wiki) | |
| 15:29 | JT4sugar: thank you! I really appreciate it. | |
| 15:30 | JT4sugar | mchua, Sure, this feedback loop from the classroom is an important step forward for ongoing improvement |
| 15:30 | satellit__ | mchua: I posted some testing notes here: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/T[…]k_release_process (random collection) |
| 15:31 | mchua | JT4sugar: agreed! |
| 15:31 | satellit__: thanks! | |
| 15:33 | This just in: lmacken has unblocked us, we're on our own for liveusb-creator now. | |
| 15:33 | i'll clean the log and post it and start shouting for ticket help. | |
| 15:33 | when I next have time to work on soas. | |
| 15:33 | sdziallas | mchua: does that mean we have to do the coding ourselves? |
| 15:33 | mchua | #action mchua drive liveusb-creator ticket forward, now that lmacken has done a braindump (we're essentially on our own now, he's hosed) |
| 15:33 | sdziallas: ....yes | |
| 15:33 | but I have a vague idea on it now. | |
| 15:34 | sdziallas | mchua: can you also please ask him to push the gui revamp? |
| 15:34 | mchua | and by "vague" I mean "will start out being utterly lost, but hopefully my frantic flounderings in public will attract more skilled help." |
| 15:34 | sdziallas | Heh. |
| 15:34 | mchua | sdziallas: I did, whatever he's pushed so far is what we can expect (anything else is bonus) |
| 15:35 | so we basically should not block on him for anything, gui revamp or otherwise... and not expect anything further from that direction | |
| 15:35 | which is good to know | |
| 15:35 | so... yeah. I think I'm going to have to apply a lot of "ZOMG NEED WORK DONE HERE NOW COME HELP PLZ" energy to liveusb-creator in the next... two weeks. | |
| 15:35 | Which means I'll have correspondingly less energy to harass Activity maintainers. | |
| 15:35 | Actually, I'd like to drop that if I can. | |
| 15:35 | pbrobinson | mchua: in terms of technical details I can help out who ever picks this up. On the linux side of things can probably give them a test script and might be able to do something for windows too |
| 15:35 | mchua | pbrobinson: oh, sweet. yay! |
| 15:35 | sdziallas | mchua: ? |
| 15:36 | mchua: he didn't push anything, afaict. | |
| 15:36 | mchua | sdziallas: then we should assume he won't. |
| 15:36 | sdziallas | alright. |
| 15:36 | #action mchua drive liveusb-creator ticket forward, now that lmacken has done a braindump (we're essentially on our own now, he's hosed) | |
| 15:36 | moving on? | |
| 15:37 | pbrobinson | mchua: did he indicate when he's hosed until? |
| 15:37 | sdziallas | (actually, there's nothing to move on to, we can wrap this afterwards) |
| 15:37 | mchua | pbrobinson: indefinite. |
| 15:38 | Well, if someone else can take the Activities #action now that I know I have to run with the liveusb-creator one, that would be great | |
| 15:38 | otherwise that one is in danger of slippage since I'm going to be prioritizing liveusb-creator. | |
| 15:38 | between now and next monday, anyhow. | |
| 15:38 | sdziallas | pbrobinson indicated that he'd send an email and we can take it from there together. |
| 15:39 | mchua | ok, cool, so you guys have that and I'm *just* doing liveusb-creator this week (and kicking the cron job for the test image, but that's fast.) |
| 15:39 | sdziallas | (as in: on-list, me thinks) |
| 15:39 | mchua | cool. |
| 15:39 | sdziallas | anything else? |
| 15:39 | pbrobinson | mchua: writing the activities selection email now, we'll throw it out to the list and take it from there. |
| 15:40 | mchua | thanks! |
| 15:40 | has nothing more | |
| 15:40 | sdziallas | awesome. |
| 15:40 | closing in 3 | |
| 15:40 | 2 | |
| 15:40 | 1 | |
| 15:40 | (sorry for rushing this meeting) | |
| 15:40 | #endmeeting | |
| 17:04 | jelkner | walterbender, how do you want to proceed? Should I start by updating you on where we are? |
| 17:04 | walterbender | jelkner: rgs, the co-TA maintainer is joining us as well... |
| 17:04 | #TOPIC update | |
| 17:04 | jelkner: go for it | |
| 17:04 | jelkner | Great |
| 17:04 | ellimistd | i should fix my name, |
| 17:04 | jelkner | jboisture has been busy working on the TA website |
| 17:05 | here is what he has so far: http://turtleartsite.appspot.c[…]ite/default/index | |
| 17:05 | dreich, jboisture, and i have been testing it for the last few hours | |
| 17:05 | walterbender | looks |
| 17:05 | jelkner | it works pretty well |
| 17:06 | walterbender | jelkner: looks good... how does upload work? |
| 17:06 | jelkner | not they way we want |
| 17:06 | that's what comes next | |
| 17:07 | rgs | looks nice |
| 17:07 | jboisture | right now if your logged in you can just upload a ta file and an image |
| 17:07 | rgs | is this PHP? |
| 17:07 | jelkner | python! |
| 17:07 | web2py | |
| 17:07 | rgs | jelkner: even better! |
| 17:07 | walterbender | jelkner: also, how does one add a comment? Is that only for the person who uploaded? |
| 17:07 | jboisture | we would like for there to be a share button in turtleart so that its a little more stream line |
| 17:07 | rgs | jelkner: we should try to build an RPM and add it to a repo to make it easy to install on schoolservers |
| 17:08 | jboisture | you have to log in first before you can comment |
| 17:08 | walterbender | just notices the blue-on-blue log-in link |
| 17:08 | jelkner | rgs, we are using the scratch website as our model |
| 17:08 | (a darn good model, btw!) | |
| 17:08 | we want to add a menu item to TA | |
| 17:08 | to "share to the web" | |
| 17:09 | to do this, we need: | |
| 17:09 | 1. a stable URL | |
| 17:09 | 2. a good idea about what resources this will use | |
| 17:09 | rgs | a URL configurable in the Control Panel :) |
| 17:09 | which defaults to http://schoolserver/turtles | |
| 17:10 | jelkner | rgs, that defaults to the main site, ok? |
| 17:10 | lol | |
| 17:10 | you beat me to it | |
| 17:10 | rgs | :) |
| 17:10 | jelkner | we are hosting in app engine now |
| 17:10 | but we want the community to decide where the main site should go | |
| 17:10 | walterbender | question: what is the image in the upload section? I thought we were autogenerating the images? |
| 17:11 | jelkner | let me address that |
| 17:11 | jboisture made auto image generation work | |
| 17:11 | but then when we moved to app engine for hosting | |
| 17:11 | it broke, since you don't have access to the file system | |
| 17:12 | rgs | :( |
| 17:12 | jelkner | correction, we couldn't use gtk there |
| 17:12 | walterbender | jelkner: I understand, but I thought we were going to set it up with a pipe |
| 17:12 | jelkner | walterbender, we have been rethinking this a bit |
| 17:12 | and we are now convinced it would be better done on the client side | |
| 17:12 | walterbender | oh. ok... but why cannot you use gtk? |
| 17:13 | jelkner | this will solve several problems |
| 17:13 | we won't have to deal with TA programs that have infinite loops for example | |
| 17:13 | here is what we are thinking: | |
| 17:13 | inside the client, the "share with the web" button | |
| 17:14 | runs the program, generates the image, and puts both on the website | |
| 17:14 | if the program fails to complete | |
| 17:14 | only the client is effected | |
| 17:14 | so we don't have to handle that server side | |
| 17:14 | walterbender | jelkner: so you want TA to connect to the server... |
| 17:14 | jelkner | yes |
| 17:15 | just like scratch does | |
| 17:15 | walterbender | jelkner: might be a Rainbow violation, but I think we can do it |
| 17:15 | jelkner | walterbender, please explain, none of us here know what a Rainbow violation is |
| 17:17 | rgs | walterbender: you think? We:l only need permissions to do an HTTP POST |
| 17:17 | walterbender | jelkner: Sugar security tries to segregate functionality so that a program, such as TA, cannot be exploited to unwhittenly upload user data. (Google Bitfrost for details) |
| 17:17 | jelkner | ahh |
| 17:17 | walterbender | rgs: I think Rainbow is not running on the current Sugar anyway, but we can ask for an exception |
| 17:18 | jelkner | i'll be testing this first with the Ubuntu package |
| 17:18 | walterbender | it may be something we ping m_stone about... |
| 17:18 | jelkner | i have a precalc class this summer |
| 17:18 | we will be using TA a lot | |
| 17:18 | i wanted to have them be the testers | |
| 17:18 | walterbender | jelkner: eventually, something like Rainbow might run in Ubuntu too. |
| 17:19 | and also, at some point, we may want to use the Journal for this as a general solution | |
| 17:19 | rgs | walterbender: +1 |
| 17:20 | walterbender: 'Upload to Schoolserver' (for any type of entry) | |
| 17:20 | walterbender: or to my classroom portfolio | |
| 17:21 | jelkner | rgs, i was hoping we could have a global site, not a local one |
| 17:21 | that's the beauty of it | |
| 17:22 | again, my experience with the scratch site has been nothing short of wonderful | |
| 17:22 | rgs | jelkner: well... we should hav both scenarios |
| 17:22 | jelkner: internet is not a reality in every deployment | |
| 17:22 | jelkner | i like your suggestion to make it configurable |
| 17:22 | rgs | jelkner: yeah |
| 17:22 | jelkner | but it could default to the global site |
| 17:22 | i'll always use the global site | |
| 17:23 | rgs | jelkner: in some cases schools would like to host there own gallery.. and then if there servers are publicly available we could mash up all of them |
| 17:23 | jelkner: we should stay open to different scenarios | |
| 17:23 | jelkner | fine |
| 17:24 | that brings us to the next thing on the agenda | |
| 17:24 | moving forward | |
| 17:24 | jamie will be working on this until august 7 | |
| 17:24 | we plan to hold a "TurtleArt Day" event here on that day | |
| 17:24 | walterbender | just uploaded a project :) |
| 17:25 | jelkner | much like our very successful scratch day |
| 17:25 | walterbender | #TOPIC turtleday |
| 17:25 | jelkner | by then, i want to have a public website where participants can share their work |
| 17:25 | after jamie goes back to college | |
| 17:25 | we will need to hand over development of the site to someone else | |
| 17:26 | another issue is that jamie is a developer, not a designer | |
| 17:26 | rgs | jelkner: is the code available in git.sugarlabs.org ? |
| 17:26 | jelkner | we will need help to make the site look "sugarized" |
| 17:26 | jboisture | no but it can be by today |
| 17:26 | jelkner | it was on launchpad |
| 17:26 | but jamie hasn't updated it lately | |
| 17:27 | he will update launchpad now | |
| 17:27 | then move it to git | |
| 17:27 | and then point launchpad to the git repository | |
| 17:28 | in the near term, i'm asking him for the TA modification to make it possible to upload from TA | |
| 17:28 | so i was hoping to get guidance on that today | |
| 17:29 | walterbender | jelkner: I'd just add another button to the Activity toolbar that has the other upload/download options... |
| 17:29 | rgs | I am thinking of a button with a handler that does an HTTP POST.. oh, but you need to be logged int |
| 17:29 | *in | |
| 17:29 | walterbender | the only complexity is determining whether or not the network is available and what to do when it is not... |
| 17:30 | jelkner | when you click on the share on-line button in scratch, it offers you a login dialog |
| 17:30 | rgs | walterbender: do we get dbus events when we loose connectivity_ |
| 17:30 | ? | |
| 17:30 | jelkner | i wanted to do the same |
| 17:30 | walterbender | rgs: I presume that they can set up an account separately with Browse... |
| 17:30 | rgs | walterbender: and when the activity starts.. do we have something like network_available? |
| 17:30 | walterbender | rgs: no se |
| 17:31 | rgs | walterbender: yes, but TA would have to do more than just POSTing, we'd have to script the login procedure, and before that we'd have to fetch the user/password from somewhere |
| 17:31 | walterbender | rgs: we must already have a mechanism for this in Browse |
| 17:31 | rgs | maybe the toolbar you suggest creating |
| 17:31 | walterbender: for detecting online/offline mode? | |
| 17:32 | walterbender | rgs: and keeping cookies... |
| 17:32 | rgs | I am working with Lucians code.. I can take a look |
| 17:32 | walterbender | we should get Lucian to chime in |
| 17:32 | jelkner | we are looking for guidance |
| 17:33 | but our timeline is short | |
| 17:33 | rgs | submitted a trivial patch today to prevent Keep errors in Browse, I will be chasing other bugs today so I'd take a look |
| 17:33 | jelkner | august 7 jamie is finished |
| 17:33 | walterbender | jelkner: he could make the changes to TA and leave stubs for the login glue... |
| 17:34 | jelkner: and I think if the transaction doesn't complete, we just notify the user... | |
| 17:34 | no retry. | |
| 17:34 | jelkner | walterbender, can he work on a branch, so we can test it? |
| 17:34 | walterbender, exactly | |
| 17:34 | if it doesn't connect, tell the user | |
| 17:34 | walterbender | jelkner: sure... that is what git is for :) |
| 17:35 | jelkner | cool |
| 17:37 | walterbender | I don't think we'll have a generalized solution for all activities for the 7th ... |
| 17:38 | jelkner | walterbender: what i want by the 7th (actually way before then ;-) is: |
| 17:38 | walterbender | BTW, as far as the design of the website, I like the simplicity of ta.org |
| 17:38 | jelkner | 1. a menu item in our Ubuntu TA version to upload to TA to our server |
| 17:38 | walterbender | maybe add a SL logo somewhere... but not much more |
| 17:39 | jelkner | 2. support in TA to generate the image and send both the .ta file and the .png file to the server |
| 17:39 | walterbender | #1 needs #2 |
| 17:39 | jelkner | then i'll work with jboisture on some of the social networking aspects of the site |
| 17:39 | like a way for users to mark their favorite art | |
| 17:40 | walterbender | KISS |
| 17:40 | jelkner | and for the site to display popular art on the home page |
| 17:40 | walterbender, i understand | |
| 17:40 | but again, working with kids | |
| 17:40 | i see how that makes the scratch site what it is | |
| 17:41 | the kids love getting feedback from someone somewhere else in the world who liked there art | |
| 17:41 | walterbender | true... |
| 17:41 | jelkner | (or scratch in this case) |
| 17:41 | it provides tremendous motivation | |
| 17:41 | walterbender | how does it handle filtering of comments? |
| 17:41 | jelkner | that's a good question |
| 17:42 | i fear we will be unable to do what i think they do | |
| 17:42 | they have lots of money, we don't :-( | |
| 17:42 | i had a student post a project with inappropriate content | |
| 17:42 | walterbender | so we'll do something better... |
| 17:42 | jelkner | is was unavailable the next day |
| 17:43 | walterbender | we can use wikipedia-style community editing to community standards |
| 17:43 | jelkner | nice! |
| 17:44 | walterbender | the key is to establish the proper culture of critique and accountability... |
| 17:44 | history is important... | |
| 17:46 | jelkner | jboisture, since you are the guy working on this |
| 17:46 | walterbender | anything else we need to cover today? |
| 17:46 | jelkner | are there any question you need answered before you can continue? |
| 17:47 | jboisture | no I think I'm okay to proceed |
| 17:47 | jelkner | that works for me |
| 17:47 | walterbender | ok... shall we end the meeting? |
| 17:47 | jelkner | ok, everyone, can we meet next week at the same time to see where we are? |
| 17:48 | jboisture | works for me |
| 17:48 | jelkner | walterbender, what do you say? |
| 17:48 | walterbender | maybe a summary of the #ACTION and #AGREED before we go? |
| 17:48 | jelkner | sounds good |
| 17:48 | walterbender | #action Jamie to a menu item in our Ubuntu TA version to upload to TA to our server |
| 17:49 | jelkner | #action Jamie will move code to git repository |
| 17:49 | (turtleartsite code) | |
| 17:49 | walterbender | #action Jamie to add support in TA to generate the image and send both the .ta file and the .png file to the server |
| 17:50 | #action rgs to look into how to do the autologin | |
| 17:50 | #agreed to report back again next Monday, 19th of July | |
| 17:50 | jelkner | excellent! |
| 17:50 | walterbender | anything else? |
| 17:51 | OK. great work guys... | |
| 17:51 | jelkner | see you all next week |
| 17:51 | walterbender | #endmeeting |