| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 11:10 | walterbender | #TOPIC Trademark |
| 11:11 | Just want to mention that I haven't heard back from Karen/SFC about our revisions. | |
| 11:11 | I suspect we are OK, but we should remain open to any needed tweaks. | |
| 11:11 | SeanDaly | we'll need to follow up |
| 11:12 | walterbender | Was anyone privy to feedback from the distros? |
| 11:12 | cjb | no, but I suspect we haven't told any of them yet |
| 11:12 | walterbender | heard that bernie may join us |
| 11:12 | cjb: I think Mel was going to ping Fedora | |
| 11:13 | SeanDaly | I want to contact the distros & start explainings of objectives |
| 11:13 | walterbender | In any case, I think we are in a good place. Thanks for hanging in there everyone. |
| 11:14 | We also have a few open requests re trademark we should process. The one I recall is a request from .py. We had given them a conditional OK pending the resolution of our policy. | |
| 11:14 | there may be others I don't recall. | |
| 11:15 | hi bernie | |
| 11:15 | SeanDaly | greets bernie |
| 11:15 | walterbender | #action Walter to compile a list of outstanding TM requests to review at the next meeting |
| 11:16 | Shall we move on to the main topic? | |
| 11:16 | SeanDaly | walterbender: dfarning had mailed some weeks ago asking if his site didn't infringe. I didn't see any myself but what we need to do is define a procedure (even temporary) to review requests & respond |
| 11:16 | bernie__ | @*#! damn the university is firewalled |
| 11:16 | is using a web chat | |
| 11:16 | SeanDaly | aside from label program |
| 11:16 | walterbender | bernie__: tor is your friend :) |
| 11:17 | mchua_afk | apologizes, got pulled into a sudden meeting with boss's boss, will have to read this one in backlog |
| 11:17 | --> $dayjob_unexpectedness | |
| 11:18 | walterbender | SeanDaly, all: if you knw of any requests, please forward them to me so I can build a comprehensive list for our review. Presumably it can become a regular (quick) action item at our meetings,. |
| 11:18 | hi mel | |
| 11:18 | #topic vacancies | |
| 11:18 | CanoeBerry | walterbender: did i miss dfarning's site we were supposed to review? |
| 11:18 | SeanDaly | walterbender: and, a good indicator of questions the FAQ should answer (the one I volunteered to edit) |
| 11:19 | walterbender | SeanDaly: OK. between press releases :) |
| 11:19 | SeanDaly | :D |
| 11:19 | cjb | CanoeBerry: I think it's this one: http://activitycentral.org/ |
| 11:20 | walterbender | SeanDaly wrote a very nice PR last night to go out on Monday. |
| 11:20 | SeanDaly | haven't heard back from gnomies yet though |
| 11:20 | cjb | at the moment they mention Sugar a lot but I can't see any links to sugarlabs.org, so that's probably something to change |
| 11:20 | SeanDaly | but OLPC-A is reviewing |
| 11:21 | walterbender | cjb: well, we don't have to worry about people mistaking the graphics for Sugar style on that site :) |
| 11:21 | SeanDaly | cjb: theirs on Monday will be first PR to mention Sugar |
| 11:21 | cjb | SeanDaly: OLPC, you mean? I'm talking about dfarning's site |
| 11:21 | unless dfarning is also making a press release | |
| 11:21 | SeanDaly | cjb: no sorry I'm confused |
| 11:21 | cjb | np |
| 11:21 | I was looking at http://activitycentral.org/development | |
| 11:22 | SeanDaly | I've wanted to tell dfarning that I didn't like the name of the site. But that's neither here nor there |
| 11:23 | cjb | yeah, I don't think there's much we could do about that :) |
| 11:23 | walterbender | cjb: dfarning alluded to "inherent friction" between activity central and Sugar Labs... not clear what he is referring to... perhaps we can invite him to brief us next meeting. |
| 11:23 | SeanDaly | a marketplace makes sense when the market is large... when it's 2 Activities, it's not large.... |
| 11:24 | cjb | walterbender: there'll be friction from their hosting/encouragement of non-free activities |
| 11:24 | walterbender | AFAIK, he is setting up a parallel portal to ASLO for non-FOSS activities... |
| 11:24 | SeanDaly | walterbender: he means competition for ASLO |
| 11:24 | cjb | but I can't think of any other friction |
| 11:24 | walterbender | I don't see any conflict or friction with that plan, but I am happy to listen |
| 11:25 | seems like a win for us | |
| 11:25 | bernie__ | my personal view is that there are already 3-4 different sites for downloading sugar activities. one more does not bother me at all. |
| 11:25 | cjb | I think there's conflict/friction because he's doing something we don't encourage, which means we can't encourage people to use his site. |
| 11:26 | walterbender | But let's plan on inviting him to talk with us rather than speculate. |
| 11:26 | bernie__ | DISCLAIMER: I'm helping dfarning with mentoring his development team |
| 11:26 | cjb | sure :) |
| 11:26 | SeanDaly | if dfarning can arrange developer resources, more power to him |
| 11:26 | walterbender | Shall we move on. We have an important topic to discuss. |
| 11:27 | related to developer resources | |
| 11:27 | bernie__ | the other activity sites I'm referring to are: http://wiki.laptop.org/ http://xoplanet.blogspot.com/ http://ceibaljam.org/ and, of course, http://activities.sugarlabs.org/ |
| 11:28 | walterbender | we have a specific issue and a meta topic... |
| 11:28 | bernie__ | +1 for moving on |
| 11:28 | walterbender | the specific issue is that we have 3 vacancies in critical positions |
| 11:28 | the meta topic is how we address filling vacancies | |
| 11:29 | and perhaps a meta meta topic is why we have vacancies to begin with | |
| 11:30 | the vacancies are (1) Deployment Team lead; (2) Development Team lead; and (3) Release Manager for 0.90 | |
| 11:30 | (We are still missing a few other positions, such as Finance Director.) | |
| 11:30 | SeanDaly | it could even be argued that we don't have a Curriculum team lead |
| 11:30 | bernie__ | I'm mostly worried for (2). Deployments and other contributors need a responsive upstream to work with. This is critical to our success. |
| 11:31 | CanoeBerry | aside for later: i'd like to know more about http://xoplanet.blogspot.com |
| 11:31 | walterbender | bernie: I agree, but I think that (1) is a major reason we have trouble with (2) |
| 11:32 | bernie__ | CanoeBerry: it's where doom, ninja zero and other goodies come from. Teachers asked us to ban it with the web filter :-( |
| 11:32 | rgs_ | (can questions be asked by non SLOB members during the meeting?) |
| 11:32 | CanoeBerry | bernie: let me know who runs it, regardless of the sexually-tinged adverts.. |
| 11:32 | bernie__ | rgs_: yes |
| 11:32 | rgs_: especially from someone who knows a lot about (1) :-) | |
| 11:33 | rgs_ | what is expected from 1? (in terms of hours, responsabilities, etc.).. at least the big picture |
| 11:33 | bernie__ | CanoeBerry: dunno... |
| 11:33 | walterbender | another aside for later: bernie: is the planet feed down? It seems stuck. |
| 11:34 | cjb | rgs_: I suppose goals might be (a) to convene a weekly meeting, (b) to have attendance by representatives of the N largest Sugar deployments at the meeting, (c) to successfully shape the rest of Sugar with their input |
| 11:34 | walterbender | rgs_: well, I think a big frustration for the development team has been a lack of any systemic process for soliciting feedback from deployments. |
| 11:34 | bernie__ | walterbender: ugh. I'll look into it this afternoon. please remind me. (now I'm supposed to give a class and my colleagues are filling in for me :-( |
| 11:35 | SeanDaly | a pity tomeu is travelling today, the vacancies problem is near & dear to his heart |
| 11:36 | walterbender | rgs_: so I think that while we have some processes in place (and an on-going debate about how to improve them) without feedback from our users, we are really not in a good position to make decisions. |
| 11:37 | SeanDaly: he will read the log and comment... we'll not settle these issues without him. | |
| 11:37 | rgs_ | I'd love to volunteer.. although I am not sure our deployment is the most representative (right now 5K user, by the end of the year we will have 10K Sugar users) |
| 11:37 | cjb | rgs_: cool! |
| 11:37 | SeanDaly | rgs_: we also believe that deployments have dev resources which ideally could be in close contact with us |
| 11:37 | walterbender | rgs_: the size of the deployment is not the issue; it is a matter of outreach to all the deployments... |
| 11:37 | rgs_ | walterbender: I am already taking a defacto sabatical from TA :p |
| 11:37 | cjb | rgs_: I don't think we need the most representative deployment to host the meetings, we.. right, what walterbender said |
| 11:38 | walterbender | someone from the LA world would be ideal at this stage, since that is so representative of most of our users. |
| 11:38 | rgs_ | k, I count with your guidance in order to make deployments collaborate in making Sugar the best learning platform ever! |
| 11:38 | cjb | yeah |
| 11:38 | bernie__ | rgs_: if, at a later point, someone from a more representative deployment steps up and wants to coordinate the Deployment Team, you can always pass them the chair. |
| 11:38 | rgs_ | (that is.. in case you would like me to help out with that task) |
| 11:38 | cjb | it would be fairly reasonable to host the meetings in Spanish :) |
| 11:38 | walterbender | well maybe have a solution of (1) :) |
| 11:39 | cjb | rgs_: you get my vote |
| 11:39 | SeanDaly | rgs_: i'm in awe |
| 11:39 | walterbender | cjb: more than fairly reasonable... they should be in the language of the deployers... |
| 11:40 | rgs_: are you going to get in trouble with Cecilia, taking on yet more responsibilities :) | |
| 11:40 | rgs_ | translation bots are a commodity nowadays :) |
| 11:40 | bernie__ | is biased (rgs is my boss) |
| 11:40 | rgs_ | walterbender: probably yes :) |
| 11:40 | walterbender: cjb : everyone: Paraguay Educa is aware of the missing positions in SL | |
| 11:40 | bernie__ | I guess I should abstain from voting on this |
| 11:40 | walterbender | rgs_: let's discuss the details after the meeting. |
| 11:40 | rgs_ | and wants to cooperate in any possible way |
| 11:40 | cjb | bernie__: didn't mean a literal vote |
| 11:41 | walterbender | this raises one of the meta issues... |
| 11:41 | bernie__ | thanks |
| 11:41 | rgs_ | so, if we can help... we'll be very happy to allocate a few hours |
| 11:41 | walterbender | I presume at some level, SLOBs appoints/approves Teams (I believe we say so in our governance rules). |
| 11:41 | but we don't discuss the mechanism by which we get input. | |
| 11:42 | bernie__ | the position that worries me the most is (2) Without a functional Development Team we're toast. |
| 11:42 | walterbender | I was talking with alsroot about the Developer Team position and he had some interesting ideas |
| 11:43 | In my mind, that position is critical to determining the milieu of the developer community | |
| 11:43 | bernie__ | walterbender: alsroot would definitely get my +1 |
| 11:43 | walterbender: same for silbe | |
| 11:43 | walterbender: (however, they both seem overworked already) | |
| 11:43 | walterbender | and it would perhaps be useful for potential team leaders to write a few paragraphs describing their POV re development and processes. |
| 11:44 | cjb | sounds good |
| 11:44 | CanoeBerry | rgs_: such a shame you're missing realness.org in the end, where many of these issues will be discussed! |
| 11:44 | bernie has us tempted, when he said you were coming 10 days back :) | |
| 11:45 | walterbender | CanoeBerry: he'll be sending his eyes and ears in the form of Bernardo :) |
| 11:45 | bernie__ | walterbender: I asked people from uruguay if someone would be willing to maintain parts of sugar |
| 11:46 | walterbender | bernie: I think we need more maintainers, but I was thinking of the Developer Team leader position... |
| 11:46 | It is a critical position in terms of how the developer community (and upstream and downstream) view our project. | |
| 11:46 | cjb | walterbender: we could have an explicit election for it, perhaps? |
| 11:47 | bernie__ | cjb: +1 |
| 11:47 | SeanDaly | cjb: you mean if more than one candidate? |
| 11:47 | bernie__ | cjb: but we have to be fast |
| 11:47 | cjb | SeanDaly: announcing an election might generate more candidates :) |
| 11:47 | walterbender | cjb: I am not sure if we need that level of formality, but a discussion on devel would be great |
| 11:47 | bernie__ | cjb: we can't afford to wait one month to unstuck development |
| 11:48 | cjb | walterbender: I think the formality might help bring out candidates and attention to their platforms/plans |
| 11:48 | bernie__ | cjb: currently, dozens and dozens of patches are sitting unreviewed in trac or in the mailing list... some have been bitrotting for 4-5 months |
| 11:48 | cjb | so while I agree it's not necessary, I think it might actually be desirable |
| 11:48 | bernie__: two-week election, perhaps? | |
| 11:48 | SeanDaly | here's an idea I hd raised recently in a marketing meeting |
| 11:49 | bernie__ | I'm +1 on an election if we can manage to vote by next week. |
| 11:49 | cjb | bernie__: if we've been waiting 5 months, another two weeks can't be awful :) |
| 11:49 | SeanDaly | the banner ad we ran last December had over half a million impressions in 30 days... almost all of which were on FOSS-themed sites |
| 11:49 | bernie__ | cjb: we could wait more if someone (you?) could fill-in the position for these two weeks |
| 11:49 | SeanDaly | we could consider advertising for talent |
| 11:49 | cjb | bernie__: Quozl's been doing a nice job of reviewing everything that's come up on devel@, I think |
| 11:50 | SeanDaly: that's an interesting ide | |
| 11:50 | a | |
| 11:50 | walterbender | SeanDaly: for sure... but it is hard to imagine a complete outside stepping into any of these three roles. |
| 11:50 | bernie__ | cjb: Quozl would also make a great development team lead imho |
| 11:50 | cjb: review != ack | |
| 11:50 | cjb | SeanDaly: perhaps a fallback for if an election doesn't gain any candidates? |
| 11:50 | bernie__: *nod* | |
| 11:51 | walterbender | seems like are converging on consensus around a quick election. |
| 11:51 | SeanDaly | ok |
| 11:51 | cjb | I'm happy to run the election |
| 11:51 | if that helps | |
| 11:51 | although I haven't set up selectricity before | |
| 11:51 | walterbender | cjb: +1 |
| 11:52 | cjb | I'll be at mako's place tonight, could perhaps get instruction from him |
| 11:52 | CanoeBerry | how quick is realistic? grooming candidates is key obviously.. |
| 11:52 | cjb | CanoeBerry: a week for nominations followed by two weeks of voting? |
| 11:52 | walterbender | cjb: that part is pretty easy... and I think Mako may know a thing or two about it :) |
| 11:52 | CanoeBerry | how about 10+10 days? |
| 11:52 | cjb | walterbender: the part I'm wondering about is things like how to distribute a token to each SL member |
| 11:52 | CanoeBerry: sure, good idea | |
| 11:53 | walterbender | cjb: we have a list of email addresses already compiled by our election committee |
| 11:53 | cjb | ah hah |
| 11:53 | walterbender | cjb: lfarone maintains it, as I recall |
| 11:53 | cjb | excellent |
| 11:53 | I'll mail him | |
| 11:54 | shall I prepare a mail announcing the existence of the election and what it hopes to achieve, and send to SLOBS for feedback? | |
| 11:54 | walterbender | #action CJB will organize a 10-day campaign followed by a 10-day election for a new Developer Team lead. |
| 11:55 | CanoeBerry | CJB needs a pretty dress too. |
| 11:55 | Sorry ;) | |
| 11:55 | walterbender | cjb: ping alsroot too as I think he had good ideas about the wording |
| 11:56 | So, what about Release Manager? | |
| 11:56 | I had been hoping we'd have found a shadow for Erikos but one never materialized. | |
| 11:56 | He is willing to mentor whomever takes on 0.90 | |
| 11:57 | This is pretty important to resolve ASAP as we need to prepare a schedule. | |
| 11:57 | CanoeBerry | Perhaps Dogi will help reverse the German brain drain, hrh ;) |
| 11:58 | walterbender | Erikos has been very professional about our releases, which I think has given us some real credibility. |
| 11:58 | I hadn't heard that Dogi or anyone else had stepped up... | |
| 11:59 | CanoeBerry | Must find Dogi to discuss these wider issues.. |
| 11:59 | walterbender | In terms of process, I don't think RM is a position we should elect, but one that is appointed based on feedback. |
| 12:00 | ? | |
| 12:00 | bernie | is back |
| 12:01 | CanoeBerry | Time Check? |
| 12:02 | SeanDaly | lunchtime? tea time? |
| 12:03 | bernie | so we'll have to wait 20 days for the new developer team lead? |
| 12:03 | walterbender | we need to end... |
| 12:03 | bernie | cjb: can you fill-in until we have a new one elected please? |
| 12:03 | walterbender | any further ideas re RM? |
| 12:03 | cjb | bernie: yes. I don't think it's realistic to expect us to get one in less time. |
| 12:03 | (that was yes to the first question -- not sure about me filling in, I'll have my hands busy just organizing an election.) | |
| 12:04 | bernie | cjb: it's really urgent for us to be able to work with a responsive upstream. |
| 12:05 | alsroot: maybe you could do it? | |
| 12:07 | because I have a stake on it, I offered to maintain all modules in the 0.88 branch until we find maintainers. I cannot take more than this at this time, sorry. | |
| 12:07 | walterbender | bernie: maybe part of cjb's announcement is a request on devel for a interim lead |
| 12:08 | and maybe the 1st task of the new lead is to appoint a RM? | |
| 12:08 | any other ideas? | |
| 12:09 | CanoeBerry | great ideas. |
| 12:09 | pretty dress was not entirely a joke. | |
| 12:09 | honoring our roles, making them attractive.. | |
| 12:10 | walterbender | speaking of honoring our roles, I want to let the record show that we, the SL community, greatly appreciate the work that Erikos and Tomeu did these past two years as RM and Dev Team lead... |
| 12:11 | maybe that should be a motion | |
| 12:11 | cjb | hear hear :) |
| 12:11 | CanoeBerry | YES |
| 12:11 | SeanDaly | hark |
| 12:12 | bernie | walterbender: +1 |
| 12:12 | walterbender | They have given us a rigor and discipline to provide a solid platform for the development and deployment communities. |
| 12:13 | so we have our work cut out for us. CJB, let me know if I can help; rgs_ let's talk about deployment team responsibilities | |
| 12:14 | shall we aim for another meeting next week? We should be well into the campaign by then. | |
| 12:14 | CanoeBerry | the primaries at least! |
| 12:14 | dogi | waves ... |
| 12:14 | CanoeBerry | dogi: you around tonight at the party etc? |
| 12:14 | rgs_ | walterbender: can we talk about deployment team responsibilities later on (like in 5 hours). I have to go to Caacupe for a few meetings with our tech support team |
| 12:15 | alsroot | bernie: about RM? I think it would be more useful to discuss this question when situation w/ dev lead will be more clear |
| 12:15 | bernie | walterbender: +1 |
| 12:15 | walterbender | rgs_: catch up with you in 5 hours |
| 12:15 | alsroot: I agree | |
| 12:15 | rgs_ | walterbender: great |
| 12:15 | ---> Caacupe | |
| 12:16 | walterbender | ok... I think we have gotten as far as we can today. |
| 12:16 | thanks everyone. | |
| 12:16 | #endmeeting |