Time |
Nick |
Message |
11:10 |
walterbender |
#TOPIC Trademark |
11:11 |
|
Just want to mention that I haven't heard back from Karen/SFC about our revisions. |
11:11 |
|
I suspect we are OK, but we should remain open to any needed tweaks. |
11:11 |
SeanDaly |
we'll need to follow up |
11:12 |
walterbender |
Was anyone privy to feedback from the distros? |
11:12 |
cjb |
no, but I suspect we haven't told any of them yet |
11:12 |
walterbender |
heard that bernie may join us |
11:12 |
|
cjb: I think Mel was going to ping Fedora |
11:13 |
SeanDaly |
I want to contact the distros & start explainings of objectives |
11:13 |
walterbender |
In any case, I think we are in a good place. Thanks for hanging in there everyone. |
11:14 |
|
We also have a few open requests re trademark we should process. The one I recall is a request from .py. We had given them a conditional OK pending the resolution of our policy. |
11:14 |
|
there may be others I don't recall. |
11:15 |
|
hi bernie |
11:15 |
SeanDaly |
greets bernie |
11:15 |
walterbender |
#action Walter to compile a list of outstanding TM requests to review at the next meeting |
11:16 |
|
Shall we move on to the main topic? |
11:16 |
SeanDaly |
walterbender: dfarning had mailed some weeks ago asking if his site didn't infringe. I didn't see any myself but what we need to do is define a procedure (even temporary) to review requests & respond |
11:16 |
bernie__ |
@*#! damn the university is firewalled |
11:16 |
|
is using a web chat |
11:16 |
SeanDaly |
aside from label program |
11:16 |
walterbender |
bernie__: tor is your friend :) |
11:17 |
mchua_afk |
apologizes, got pulled into a sudden meeting with boss's boss, will have to read this one in backlog |
11:17 |
|
--> $dayjob_unexpectedness |
11:18 |
walterbender |
SeanDaly, all: if you knw of any requests, please forward them to me so I can build a comprehensive list for our review. Presumably it can become a regular (quick) action item at our meetings,. |
11:18 |
|
hi mel |
11:18 |
|
#topic vacancies |
11:18 |
CanoeBerry |
walterbender: did i miss dfarning's site we were supposed to review? |
11:18 |
SeanDaly |
walterbender: and, a good indicator of questions the FAQ should answer (the one I volunteered to edit) |
11:19 |
walterbender |
SeanDaly: OK. between press releases :) |
11:19 |
SeanDaly |
:D |
11:19 |
cjb |
CanoeBerry: I think it's this one: http://activitycentral.org/ |
11:20 |
walterbender |
SeanDaly wrote a very nice PR last night to go out on Monday. |
11:20 |
SeanDaly |
haven't heard back from gnomies yet though |
11:20 |
cjb |
at the moment they mention Sugar a lot but I can't see any links to sugarlabs.org, so that's probably something to change |
11:20 |
SeanDaly |
but OLPC-A is reviewing |
11:21 |
walterbender |
cjb: well, we don't have to worry about people mistaking the graphics for Sugar style on that site :) |
11:21 |
SeanDaly |
cjb: theirs on Monday will be first PR to mention Sugar |
11:21 |
cjb |
SeanDaly: OLPC, you mean? I'm talking about dfarning's site |
11:21 |
|
unless dfarning is also making a press release |
11:21 |
SeanDaly |
cjb: no sorry I'm confused |
11:21 |
cjb |
np |
11:21 |
|
I was looking at http://activitycentral.org/development |
11:22 |
SeanDaly |
I've wanted to tell dfarning that I didn't like the name of the site. But that's neither here nor there |
11:23 |
cjb |
yeah, I don't think there's much we could do about that :) |
11:23 |
walterbender |
cjb: dfarning alluded to "inherent friction" between activity central and Sugar Labs... not clear what he is referring to... perhaps we can invite him to brief us next meeting. |
11:23 |
SeanDaly |
a marketplace makes sense when the market is large... when it's 2 Activities, it's not large.... |
11:24 |
cjb |
walterbender: there'll be friction from their hosting/encouragement of non-free activities |
11:24 |
walterbender |
AFAIK, he is setting up a parallel portal to ASLO for non-FOSS activities... |
11:24 |
SeanDaly |
walterbender: he means competition for ASLO |
11:24 |
cjb |
but I can't think of any other friction |
11:24 |
walterbender |
I don't see any conflict or friction with that plan, but I am happy to listen |
11:25 |
|
seems like a win for us |
11:25 |
bernie__ |
my personal view is that there are already 3-4 different sites for downloading sugar activities. one more does not bother me at all. |
11:25 |
cjb |
I think there's conflict/friction because he's doing something we don't encourage, which means we can't encourage people to use his site. |
11:26 |
walterbender |
But let's plan on inviting him to talk with us rather than speculate. |
11:26 |
bernie__ |
DISCLAIMER: I'm helping dfarning with mentoring his development team |
11:26 |
cjb |
sure :) |
11:26 |
SeanDaly |
if dfarning can arrange developer resources, more power to him |
11:26 |
walterbender |
Shall we move on. We have an important topic to discuss. |
11:27 |
|
related to developer resources |
11:27 |
bernie__ |
the other activity sites I'm referring to are: http://wiki.laptop.org/ http://xoplanet.blogspot.com/ http://ceibaljam.org/ and, of course, http://activities.sugarlabs.org/ |
11:28 |
walterbender |
we have a specific issue and a meta topic... |
11:28 |
bernie__ |
+1 for moving on |
11:28 |
walterbender |
the specific issue is that we have 3 vacancies in critical positions |
11:28 |
|
the meta topic is how we address filling vacancies |
11:29 |
|
and perhaps a meta meta topic is why we have vacancies to begin with |
11:30 |
|
the vacancies are (1) Deployment Team lead; (2) Development Team lead; and (3) Release Manager for 0.90 |
11:30 |
|
(We are still missing a few other positions, such as Finance Director.) |
11:30 |
SeanDaly |
it could even be argued that we don't have a Curriculum team lead |
11:30 |
bernie__ |
I'm mostly worried for (2). Deployments and other contributors need a responsive upstream to work with. This is critical to our success. |
11:31 |
CanoeBerry |
aside for later: i'd like to know more about http://xoplanet.blogspot.com |
11:31 |
walterbender |
bernie: I agree, but I think that (1) is a major reason we have trouble with (2) |
11:32 |
bernie__ |
CanoeBerry: it's where doom, ninja zero and other goodies come from. Teachers asked us to ban it with the web filter :-( |
11:32 |
rgs_ |
(can questions be asked by non SLOB members during the meeting?) |
11:32 |
CanoeBerry |
bernie: let me know who runs it, regardless of the sexually-tinged adverts.. |
11:32 |
bernie__ |
rgs_: yes |
11:32 |
|
rgs_: especially from someone who knows a lot about (1) :-) |
11:33 |
rgs_ |
what is expected from 1? (in terms of hours, responsabilities, etc.).. at least the big picture |
11:33 |
bernie__ |
CanoeBerry: dunno... |
11:33 |
walterbender |
another aside for later: bernie: is the planet feed down? It seems stuck. |
11:34 |
cjb |
rgs_: I suppose goals might be (a) to convene a weekly meeting, (b) to have attendance by representatives of the N largest Sugar deployments at the meeting, (c) to successfully shape the rest of Sugar with their input |
11:34 |
walterbender |
rgs_: well, I think a big frustration for the development team has been a lack of any systemic process for soliciting feedback from deployments. |
11:34 |
bernie__ |
walterbender: ugh. I'll look into it this afternoon. please remind me. (now I'm supposed to give a class and my colleagues are filling in for me :-( |
11:35 |
SeanDaly |
a pity tomeu is travelling today, the vacancies problem is near & dear to his heart |
11:36 |
walterbender |
rgs_: so I think that while we have some processes in place (and an on-going debate about how to improve them) without feedback from our users, we are really not in a good position to make decisions. |
11:37 |
|
SeanDaly: he will read the log and comment... we'll not settle these issues without him. |
11:37 |
rgs_ |
I'd love to volunteer.. although I am not sure our deployment is the most representative (right now 5K user, by the end of the year we will have 10K Sugar users) |
11:37 |
cjb |
rgs_: cool! |
11:37 |
SeanDaly |
rgs_: we also believe that deployments have dev resources which ideally could be in close contact with us |
11:37 |
walterbender |
rgs_: the size of the deployment is not the issue; it is a matter of outreach to all the deployments... |
11:37 |
rgs_ |
walterbender: I am already taking a defacto sabatical from TA :p |
11:37 |
cjb |
rgs_: I don't think we need the most representative deployment to host the meetings, we.. right, what walterbender said |
11:38 |
walterbender |
someone from the LA world would be ideal at this stage, since that is so representative of most of our users. |
11:38 |
rgs_ |
k, I count with your guidance in order to make deployments collaborate in making Sugar the best learning platform ever! |
11:38 |
cjb |
yeah |
11:38 |
bernie__ |
rgs_: if, at a later point, someone from a more representative deployment steps up and wants to coordinate the Deployment Team, you can always pass them the chair. |
11:38 |
rgs_ |
(that is.. in case you would like me to help out with that task) |
11:38 |
cjb |
it would be fairly reasonable to host the meetings in Spanish :) |
11:38 |
walterbender |
well maybe have a solution of (1) :) |
11:39 |
cjb |
rgs_: you get my vote |
11:39 |
SeanDaly |
rgs_: i'm in awe |
11:39 |
walterbender |
cjb: more than fairly reasonable... they should be in the language of the deployers... |
11:40 |
|
rgs_: are you going to get in trouble with Cecilia, taking on yet more responsibilities :) |
11:40 |
rgs_ |
translation bots are a commodity nowadays :) |
11:40 |
bernie__ |
is biased (rgs is my boss) |
11:40 |
rgs_ |
walterbender: probably yes :) |
11:40 |
|
walterbender: cjb : everyone: Paraguay Educa is aware of the missing positions in SL |
11:40 |
bernie__ |
I guess I should abstain from voting on this |
11:40 |
walterbender |
rgs_: let's discuss the details after the meeting. |
11:40 |
rgs_ |
and wants to cooperate in any possible way |
11:40 |
cjb |
bernie__: didn't mean a literal vote |
11:41 |
walterbender |
this raises one of the meta issues... |
11:41 |
bernie__ |
thanks |
11:41 |
rgs_ |
so, if we can help... we'll be very happy to allocate a few hours |
11:41 |
walterbender |
I presume at some level, SLOBs appoints/approves Teams (I believe we say so in our governance rules). |
11:41 |
|
but we don't discuss the mechanism by which we get input. |
11:42 |
bernie__ |
the position that worries me the most is (2) Without a functional Development Team we're toast. |
11:42 |
walterbender |
I was talking with alsroot about the Developer Team position and he had some interesting ideas |
11:43 |
|
In my mind, that position is critical to determining the milieu of the developer community |
11:43 |
bernie__ |
walterbender: alsroot would definitely get my +1 |
11:43 |
|
walterbender: same for silbe |
11:43 |
|
walterbender: (however, they both seem overworked already) |
11:43 |
walterbender |
and it would perhaps be useful for potential team leaders to write a few paragraphs describing their POV re development and processes. |
11:44 |
cjb |
sounds good |
11:44 |
CanoeBerry |
rgs_: such a shame you're missing realness.org in the end, where many of these issues will be discussed! |
11:44 |
|
bernie has us tempted, when he said you were coming 10 days back :) |
11:45 |
walterbender |
CanoeBerry: he'll be sending his eyes and ears in the form of Bernardo :) |
11:45 |
bernie__ |
walterbender: I asked people from uruguay if someone would be willing to maintain parts of sugar |
11:46 |
walterbender |
bernie: I think we need more maintainers, but I was thinking of the Developer Team leader position... |
11:46 |
|
It is a critical position in terms of how the developer community (and upstream and downstream) view our project. |
11:46 |
cjb |
walterbender: we could have an explicit election for it, perhaps? |
11:47 |
bernie__ |
cjb: +1 |
11:47 |
SeanDaly |
cjb: you mean if more than one candidate? |
11:47 |
bernie__ |
cjb: but we have to be fast |
11:47 |
cjb |
SeanDaly: announcing an election might generate more candidates :) |
11:47 |
walterbender |
cjb: I am not sure if we need that level of formality, but a discussion on devel would be great |
11:47 |
bernie__ |
cjb: we can't afford to wait one month to unstuck development |
11:48 |
cjb |
walterbender: I think the formality might help bring out candidates and attention to their platforms/plans |
11:48 |
bernie__ |
cjb: currently, dozens and dozens of patches are sitting unreviewed in trac or in the mailing list... some have been bitrotting for 4-5 months |
11:48 |
cjb |
so while I agree it's not necessary, I think it might actually be desirable |
11:48 |
|
bernie__: two-week election, perhaps? |
11:48 |
SeanDaly |
here's an idea I hd raised recently in a marketing meeting |
11:49 |
bernie__ |
I'm +1 on an election if we can manage to vote by next week. |
11:49 |
cjb |
bernie__: if we've been waiting 5 months, another two weeks can't be awful :) |
11:49 |
SeanDaly |
the banner ad we ran last December had over half a million impressions in 30 days... almost all of which were on FOSS-themed sites |
11:49 |
bernie__ |
cjb: we could wait more if someone (you?) could fill-in the position for these two weeks |
11:49 |
SeanDaly |
we could consider advertising for talent |
11:49 |
cjb |
bernie__: Quozl's been doing a nice job of reviewing everything that's come up on devel@, I think |
11:50 |
|
SeanDaly: that's an interesting ide |
11:50 |
|
a |
11:50 |
walterbender |
SeanDaly: for sure... but it is hard to imagine a complete outside stepping into any of these three roles. |
11:50 |
bernie__ |
cjb: Quozl would also make a great development team lead imho |
11:50 |
|
cjb: review != ack |
11:50 |
cjb |
SeanDaly: perhaps a fallback for if an election doesn't gain any candidates? |
11:50 |
|
bernie__: *nod* |
11:51 |
walterbender |
seems like are converging on consensus around a quick election. |
11:51 |
SeanDaly |
ok |
11:51 |
cjb |
I'm happy to run the election |
11:51 |
|
if that helps |
11:51 |
|
although I haven't set up selectricity before |
11:51 |
walterbender |
cjb: +1 |
11:52 |
cjb |
I'll be at mako's place tonight, could perhaps get instruction from him |
11:52 |
CanoeBerry |
how quick is realistic? grooming candidates is key obviously.. |
11:52 |
cjb |
CanoeBerry: a week for nominations followed by two weeks of voting? |
11:52 |
walterbender |
cjb: that part is pretty easy... and I think Mako may know a thing or two about it :) |
11:52 |
CanoeBerry |
how about 10+10 days? |
11:52 |
cjb |
walterbender: the part I'm wondering about is things like how to distribute a token to each SL member |
11:52 |
|
CanoeBerry: sure, good idea |
11:53 |
walterbender |
cjb: we have a list of email addresses already compiled by our election committee |
11:53 |
cjb |
ah hah |
11:53 |
walterbender |
cjb: lfarone maintains it, as I recall |
11:53 |
cjb |
excellent |
11:53 |
|
I'll mail him |
11:54 |
|
shall I prepare a mail announcing the existence of the election and what it hopes to achieve, and send to SLOBS for feedback? |
11:54 |
walterbender |
#action CJB will organize a 10-day campaign followed by a 10-day election for a new Developer Team lead. |
11:55 |
CanoeBerry |
CJB needs a pretty dress too. |
11:55 |
|
Sorry ;) |
11:55 |
walterbender |
cjb: ping alsroot too as I think he had good ideas about the wording |
11:56 |
|
So, what about Release Manager? |
11:56 |
|
I had been hoping we'd have found a shadow for Erikos but one never materialized. |
11:56 |
|
He is willing to mentor whomever takes on 0.90 |
11:57 |
|
This is pretty important to resolve ASAP as we need to prepare a schedule. |
11:57 |
CanoeBerry |
Perhaps Dogi will help reverse the German brain drain, hrh ;) |
11:58 |
walterbender |
Erikos has been very professional about our releases, which I think has given us some real credibility. |
11:58 |
|
I hadn't heard that Dogi or anyone else had stepped up... |
11:59 |
CanoeBerry |
Must find Dogi to discuss these wider issues.. |
11:59 |
walterbender |
In terms of process, I don't think RM is a position we should elect, but one that is appointed based on feedback. |
12:00 |
|
? |
12:00 |
bernie |
is back |
12:01 |
CanoeBerry |
Time Check? |
12:02 |
SeanDaly |
lunchtime? tea time? |
12:03 |
bernie |
so we'll have to wait 20 days for the new developer team lead? |
12:03 |
walterbender |
we need to end... |
12:03 |
bernie |
cjb: can you fill-in until we have a new one elected please? |
12:03 |
walterbender |
any further ideas re RM? |
12:03 |
cjb |
bernie: yes. I don't think it's realistic to expect us to get one in less time. |
12:03 |
|
(that was yes to the first question -- not sure about me filling in, I'll have my hands busy just organizing an election.) |
12:04 |
bernie |
cjb: it's really urgent for us to be able to work with a responsive upstream. |
12:05 |
|
alsroot: maybe you could do it? |
12:07 |
|
because I have a stake on it, I offered to maintain all modules in the 0.88 branch until we find maintainers. I cannot take more than this at this time, sorry. |
12:07 |
walterbender |
bernie: maybe part of cjb's announcement is a request on devel for a interim lead |
12:08 |
|
and maybe the 1st task of the new lead is to appoint a RM? |
12:08 |
|
any other ideas? |
12:09 |
CanoeBerry |
great ideas. |
12:09 |
|
pretty dress was not entirely a joke. |
12:09 |
|
honoring our roles, making them attractive.. |
12:10 |
walterbender |
speaking of honoring our roles, I want to let the record show that we, the SL community, greatly appreciate the work that Erikos and Tomeu did these past two years as RM and Dev Team lead... |
12:11 |
|
maybe that should be a motion |
12:11 |
cjb |
hear hear :) |
12:11 |
CanoeBerry |
YES |
12:11 |
SeanDaly |
hark |
12:12 |
bernie |
walterbender: +1 |
12:12 |
walterbender |
They have given us a rigor and discipline to provide a solid platform for the development and deployment communities. |
12:13 |
|
so we have our work cut out for us. CJB, let me know if I can help; rgs_ let's talk about deployment team responsibilities |
12:14 |
|
shall we aim for another meeting next week? We should be well into the campaign by then. |
12:14 |
CanoeBerry |
the primaries at least! |
12:14 |
dogi |
waves ... |
12:14 |
CanoeBerry |
dogi: you around tonight at the party etc? |
12:14 |
rgs_ |
walterbender: can we talk about deployment team responsibilities later on (like in 5 hours). I have to go to Caacupe for a few meetings with our tech support team |
12:15 |
alsroot |
bernie: about RM? I think it would be more useful to discuss this question when situation w/ dev lead will be more clear |
12:15 |
bernie |
walterbender: +1 |
12:15 |
walterbender |
rgs_: catch up with you in 5 hours |
12:15 |
|
alsroot: I agree |
12:15 |
rgs_ |
walterbender: great |
12:15 |
|
---> Caacupe |
12:16 |
walterbender |
ok... I think we have gotten as far as we can today. |
12:16 |
|
thanks everyone. |
12:16 |
|
#endmeeting |