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#sugar-meeting, 2010-05-14

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Time Nick Message
11:10 walterbender #TOPIC Trademark
11:11 Just want to mention that I haven't heard back from Karen/SFC about our revisions.
11:11 I suspect we are OK, but we should remain open to any needed tweaks.
11:11 SeanDaly we'll need to follow up
11:12 walterbender Was anyone privy to feedback from the distros?
11:12 cjb no, but I suspect we haven't told any of them yet
11:12 walterbender heard that bernie may join us
11:12 cjb: I think Mel was going to ping Fedora
11:13 SeanDaly I want to contact the distros & start explainings of objectives
11:13 walterbender In any case, I think we are in a good place. Thanks for hanging in there everyone.
11:14 We also have a few open requests re trademark we should process. The one I recall is a request from .py. We had given them a conditional OK pending the resolution of our policy.
11:14 there may be others I don't recall.
11:15 hi bernie
11:15 SeanDaly greets bernie
11:15 walterbender #action Walter to compile a list of outstanding TM requests to review at the next meeting
11:16 Shall we move on to the main topic?
11:16 SeanDaly walterbender: dfarning had mailed some weeks ago asking if his site didn't infringe. I didn't see any myself but what we need to do is define a procedure (even temporary) to review requests & respond
11:16 bernie__ @*#! damn the university is firewalled
11:16 is using a web chat
11:16 SeanDaly aside from label program
11:16 walterbender bernie__: tor is your friend :)
11:17 mchua_afk apologizes, got pulled into a sudden meeting with boss's boss, will have to read this one in backlog
11:17 --> $dayjob_unexpectedness
11:18 walterbender SeanDaly, all: if you knw of any requests, please forward them to me so I can build a comprehensive list for our review. Presumably it can become a regular (quick) action item at our meetings,.
11:18 hi mel
11:18 #topic vacancies
11:18 CanoeBerry walterbender: did i miss dfarning's site we were supposed to review?
11:18 SeanDaly walterbender: and, a good indicator of questions the FAQ should answer (the one I volunteered to edit)
11:19 walterbender SeanDaly: OK. between press releases :)
11:19 SeanDaly :D
11:19 cjb CanoeBerry: I think it's this one:  http://activitycentral.org/
11:20 walterbender SeanDaly wrote a very nice PR last night to go out on Monday.
11:20 SeanDaly haven't heard back from gnomies yet though
11:20 cjb at the moment they mention Sugar a lot but I can't see any links to sugarlabs.org, so that's probably something to change
11:20 SeanDaly but OLPC-A is reviewing
11:21 walterbender cjb: well, we don't have to worry about people mistaking the graphics for Sugar style on that site :)
11:21 SeanDaly cjb: theirs on Monday will be first PR to mention Sugar
11:21 cjb SeanDaly: OLPC, you mean?  I'm talking about dfarning's site
11:21 unless dfarning is also making a press release
11:21 SeanDaly cjb: no sorry I'm confused
11:21 cjb np
11:21 I was looking at http://activitycentral.org/development
11:22 SeanDaly I've wanted to tell dfarning that I didn't like the name of the site. But that's neither here nor there
11:23 cjb yeah, I don't think there's much we could do about that :)
11:23 walterbender cjb: dfarning alluded to "inherent friction" between activity central and Sugar Labs... not clear what he is referring to... perhaps we can invite him to brief us next meeting.
11:23 SeanDaly a marketplace makes sense when the market is large... when it's 2 Activities, it's not large....
11:24 cjb walterbender: there'll be friction from their hosting/encouragement of non-free activities
11:24 walterbender AFAIK, he is setting up a parallel portal to ASLO for non-FOSS activities...
11:24 SeanDaly walterbender: he means competition for ASLO
11:24 cjb but I can't think of any other friction
11:24 walterbender I don't see any conflict or friction with that plan, but I am happy to listen
11:25 seems like a win for us
11:25 bernie__ my personal view is that there are already 3-4 different sites for downloading sugar activities. one more does not bother me at all.
11:25 cjb I think there's conflict/friction because he's doing something we don't encourage, which means we can't encourage people to use his site.
11:26 walterbender But let's plan on inviting him to talk with us rather than speculate.
11:26 bernie__ DISCLAIMER: I'm helping dfarning with mentoring his development team
11:26 cjb sure :)
11:26 SeanDaly if dfarning can arrange developer resources, more power to him
11:26 walterbender Shall we move on. We have an important topic to discuss.
11:27 related to developer resources
11:27 bernie__ the other activity sites I'm referring to are: http://wiki.laptop.org/ http://xoplanet.blogspot.com/ http://ceibaljam.org/ and, of course, http://activities.sugarlabs.org/
11:28 walterbender we have a specific issue and a meta topic...
11:28 bernie__ +1 for moving on
11:28 walterbender the specific issue is that we have 3 vacancies in critical positions
11:28 the meta topic is how we address filling vacancies
11:29 and perhaps a meta meta topic is why we have vacancies to begin with
11:30 the vacancies are (1) Deployment Team lead; (2) Development Team lead; and (3) Release Manager for 0.90
11:30 (We are still missing a few other positions, such as Finance Director.)
11:30 SeanDaly it could even be argued that we don't have a Curriculum team lead
11:30 bernie__ I'm mostly worried for (2). Deployments and other contributors need a responsive upstream to work with. This is critical to our success.
11:31 CanoeBerry aside for later: i'd like to know more about http://xoplanet.blogspot.com
11:31 walterbender bernie: I agree, but I think that (1) is a major reason we have trouble with (2)
11:32 bernie__ CanoeBerry: it's where doom, ninja zero and other goodies come from. Teachers asked us to ban it with the web filter :-(
11:32 rgs_ (can questions be asked by non SLOB members during the meeting?)
11:32 CanoeBerry bernie: let me know who runs it, regardless of the sexually-tinged adverts..
11:32 bernie__ rgs_: yes
11:32 rgs_: especially from someone who knows a lot about (1) :-)
11:33 rgs_ what is expected from 1? (in terms of hours, responsabilities, etc.).. at least the big picture
11:33 bernie__ CanoeBerry: dunno...
11:33 walterbender another aside for later: bernie: is the planet feed down? It seems stuck.
11:34 cjb rgs_: I suppose goals might be (a) to convene a weekly meeting, (b) to have attendance by representatives of the N largest Sugar deployments at the meeting, (c) to successfully shape the rest of Sugar with their input
11:34 walterbender rgs_: well, I think a big frustration for the development team has been a lack of any systemic process for soliciting feedback from deployments.
11:34 bernie__ walterbender: ugh. I'll look into it this afternoon. please remind me. (now I'm supposed to give a class and my colleagues are filling in for me :-(
11:35 SeanDaly a pity tomeu is travelling today, the vacancies problem is near & dear to his heart
11:36 walterbender rgs_: so I think that while we have some processes in place (and an on-going debate about how to improve them) without feedback from our users, we are really not in a good position to make decisions.
11:37 SeanDaly: he will read the log and comment... we'll not settle these issues without him.
11:37 rgs_ I'd love to volunteer.. although I am not sure our deployment is the most representative (right now 5K user, by the end of the year we will have 10K Sugar users)
11:37 cjb rgs_: cool!
11:37 SeanDaly rgs_: we also believe that deployments have dev resources which ideally could be in close contact with us
11:37 walterbender rgs_: the size of the deployment is not the issue; it is a matter of outreach to all the deployments...
11:37 rgs_ walterbender: I am already taking a defacto sabatical from TA :p
11:37 cjb rgs_: I don't think we need the most representative deployment to host the meetings, we.. right, what walterbender said
11:38 walterbender someone from the LA world would be ideal at this stage, since that is so representative of most of our users.
11:38 rgs_ k, I count with your guidance in order to make deployments collaborate in making Sugar the best learning platform ever!
11:38 cjb yeah
11:38 bernie__ rgs_: if, at a later point, someone from a more representative deployment steps up and wants to coordinate the Deployment Team, you can always pass them the chair.
11:38 rgs_ (that is.. in case you would like me to help out with that task)
11:38 cjb it would be fairly reasonable to host the meetings in Spanish :)
11:38 walterbender well maybe have a solution of (1) :)
11:39 cjb rgs_: you get my vote
11:39 SeanDaly rgs_: i'm in awe
11:39 walterbender cjb: more than fairly reasonable... they should be in the language of the deployers...
11:40 rgs_: are you going to get in trouble with Cecilia, taking on yet more responsibilities :)
11:40 rgs_ translation bots are a commodity nowadays :)
11:40 bernie__ is biased (rgs is my boss)
11:40 rgs_ walterbender: probably yes :)
11:40 walterbender: cjb : everyone: Paraguay Educa is aware of the missing positions in SL
11:40 bernie__ I guess I should abstain from voting on this
11:40 walterbender rgs_: let's discuss the details after the meeting.
11:40 rgs_ and wants to cooperate in any possible way
11:40 cjb bernie__: didn't mean a literal vote
11:41 walterbender this raises one of the meta issues...
11:41 bernie__ thanks
11:41 rgs_ so, if we can help... we'll be very happy to allocate a few hours
11:41 walterbender I presume at some level, SLOBs appoints/approves Teams (I believe we say so in our governance rules).
11:41 but we don't discuss the mechanism by which we get input.
11:42 bernie__ the position that worries me the most is (2) Without a functional Development Team we're toast.
11:42 walterbender I was talking with alsroot about the Developer Team position and he had some interesting ideas
11:43 In my mind, that position is critical to determining the milieu of the developer community
11:43 bernie__ walterbender: alsroot would definitely get my +1
11:43 walterbender: same for silbe
11:43 walterbender: (however, they both seem overworked already)
11:43 walterbender and it would perhaps be useful for potential team leaders to write a few paragraphs describing their POV re development and processes.
11:44 cjb sounds good
11:44 CanoeBerry rgs_: such a shame you're missing realness.org in the end, where many of these issues will be discussed!
11:44 bernie has us tempted, when he said you were coming 10 days back :)
11:45 walterbender CanoeBerry: he'll be sending his eyes and ears in the form of Bernardo :)
11:45 bernie__ walterbender: I asked people from uruguay if someone would be willing to maintain parts of sugar
11:46 walterbender bernie: I think we need more maintainers, but I was thinking of the Developer Team leader position...
11:46 It is a critical position in terms of how the developer community (and upstream and downstream) view our project.
11:46 cjb walterbender: we could have an explicit election for it, perhaps?
11:47 bernie__ cjb: +1
11:47 SeanDaly cjb: you mean if more than one candidate?
11:47 bernie__ cjb: but we have to be fast
11:47 cjb SeanDaly: announcing an election might generate more candidates :)
11:47 walterbender cjb: I am not sure if we need that level of formality, but a discussion on devel would be great
11:47 bernie__ cjb: we can't afford to wait one month to unstuck development
11:48 cjb walterbender: I think the formality might help bring out candidates and attention to their platforms/plans
11:48 bernie__ cjb: currently, dozens and dozens of patches are sitting unreviewed in trac or in the mailing list... some have been bitrotting for 4-5 months
11:48 cjb so while I agree it's not necessary, I think it might actually be desirable
11:48 bernie__: two-week election, perhaps?
11:48 SeanDaly here's an idea I hd raised recently in a marketing meeting
11:49 bernie__ I'm +1 on an election if we can manage to vote by next week.
11:49 cjb bernie__: if we've been waiting 5 months, another two weeks can't be awful :)
11:49 SeanDaly the banner ad we ran last December had over half a million impressions in 30 days... almost all of which were on FOSS-themed sites
11:49 bernie__ cjb: we could wait more if someone (you?) could fill-in the position for these two weeks
11:49 SeanDaly we could consider advertising for talent
11:49 cjb bernie__: Quozl's been doing a nice job of reviewing everything that's come up on devel@, I think
11:50 SeanDaly: that's an interesting ide
11:50 a
11:50 walterbender SeanDaly: for sure... but it is hard to imagine a complete outside stepping into any of these three roles.
11:50 bernie__ cjb: Quozl would also make a great development team lead imho
11:50 cjb:  review != ack
11:50 cjb SeanDaly: perhaps a fallback for if an election doesn't gain any candidates?
11:50 bernie__: *nod*
11:51 walterbender seems like are converging on consensus around a quick election.
11:51 SeanDaly ok
11:51 cjb I'm happy to run the election
11:51 if that helps
11:51 although I haven't set up selectricity before
11:51 walterbender cjb: +1
11:52 cjb I'll be at mako's place tonight, could perhaps get instruction from him
11:52 CanoeBerry how quick is realistic? grooming candidates is key obviously..
11:52 cjb CanoeBerry: a week for nominations followed by two weeks of voting?
11:52 walterbender cjb: that part is pretty easy... and I think Mako may know a thing or two about it :)
11:52 CanoeBerry how about 10+10 days?
11:52 cjb walterbender: the part I'm wondering about is things like how to distribute a token to each SL member
11:52 CanoeBerry: sure, good idea
11:53 walterbender cjb:  we have a list of email addresses already compiled by our election committee
11:53 cjb ah hah
11:53 walterbender cjb: lfarone maintains it, as I recall
11:53 cjb excellent
11:53 I'll mail him
11:54 shall I prepare a mail announcing the existence of the election and what it hopes to achieve, and send to SLOBS for feedback?
11:54 walterbender #action CJB will organize a 10-day campaign followed by a 10-day election for a new Developer Team lead.
11:55 CanoeBerry CJB needs a pretty dress too.
11:55 Sorry ;)
11:55 walterbender cjb: ping alsroot too as I think he had good ideas about the wording
11:56 So, what about Release Manager?
11:56 I had been hoping we'd have found a shadow for Erikos but one never materialized.
11:56 He is willing to mentor whomever takes on 0.90
11:57 This is pretty important to resolve ASAP as we need to prepare a schedule.
11:57 CanoeBerry Perhaps Dogi will help reverse the German brain drain, hrh ;)
11:58 walterbender Erikos has been very professional about our releases, which I think has given us some real credibility.
11:58 I hadn't heard that Dogi or anyone else had stepped up...
11:59 CanoeBerry Must find Dogi to discuss these wider issues..
11:59 walterbender In terms of process, I don't think RM is a position we should elect, but one that is appointed based on feedback.
12:00 ?
12:00 bernie is back
12:01 CanoeBerry Time Check?
12:02 SeanDaly lunchtime? tea time?
12:03 bernie so we'll have to wait 20 days for the new developer team lead?
12:03 walterbender we need to end...
12:03 bernie cjb: can you fill-in until we have a new one elected please?
12:03 walterbender any further ideas re RM?
12:03 cjb bernie: yes.  I don't think it's realistic to expect us to get one in less time.
12:03 (that was yes to the first question -- not sure about me filling in, I'll have my hands busy just organizing an election.)
12:04 bernie cjb: it's really urgent for us to be able to work with a responsive upstream.
12:05 alsroot: maybe you could do it?
12:07 because I have a stake on it, I offered to maintain all modules in the 0.88 branch until we find maintainers. I cannot take more than this at this time, sorry.
12:07 walterbender bernie: maybe part of cjb's announcement is a request on devel for a interim lead
12:08 and maybe the 1st task of the new lead is to appoint a RM?
12:08 any other ideas?
12:09 CanoeBerry great ideas.
12:09 pretty dress was not entirely a joke.
12:09 honoring our roles, making them attractive..
12:10 walterbender speaking of honoring our roles, I want to let the record show that we, the SL community, greatly appreciate the work that Erikos and Tomeu did these past two years as RM and Dev Team lead...
12:11 maybe that should be a motion
12:11 cjb hear hear :)
12:11 CanoeBerry YES
12:11 SeanDaly hark
12:12 bernie walterbender: +1
12:12 walterbender They have given us a rigor and discipline to provide a solid platform for the development and deployment communities.
12:13 so we have our work cut out for us. CJB, let me know if I can help; rgs_ let's talk about deployment team responsibilities
12:14 shall we aim for another meeting next week? We should be well into the campaign by then.
12:14 CanoeBerry the primaries at least!
12:14 dogi waves ...
12:14 CanoeBerry dogi: you around tonight at the party etc?
12:14 rgs_ walterbender: can we talk about deployment team responsibilities later on (like in 5 hours). I have to go to Caacupe for a few meetings with our tech support team
12:15 alsroot bernie: about RM? I think it would be more useful to discuss this question when situation w/ dev lead will be more clear
12:15 bernie walterbender: +1
12:15 walterbender rgs_: catch up with you in 5 hours
12:15 alsroot: I agree
12:15 rgs_ walterbender: great
12:15 ---> Caacupe
12:16 walterbender ok... I think we have gotten as far as we can today.
12:16 thanks everyone.
12:16 #endmeeting

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