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#sugar-meeting, 2010-05-04

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
10:10 SeanDaly sorry  didn't get an invite out
10:10 fgrose had done a template of the invite but I don't know how to use it I'm afraid
10:10 i spend a lot of time fighting with tools
10:11 JT4Sugar That's ok-Just an announcement on mailing lists should work
10:14 What is agenda today?
10:15 SeanDaly I'm wondering what next PR step should be concerning Mirabelle
10:16 responding to probinson's mail of a week ago now (been busy with OLPC launches)
10:16 i'm at a loss
10:16 JT4Sugar I believe we need to announce it and do big developer recruitment push
10:17 SeanDaly: Need to step out for about 5 min I'll ping when back
10:17 SeanDaly jt4sugar: ok
10:24 JT4Sugar SeanDaly: Im back
10:25 SeanDaly ok
10:25 walterbender hi guys
10:25 SeanDaly hi walterbender
10:25 just some brainstormng about next steps
10:26 JT4Sugar SeanDaly: Fedora Spin-Fedora relationship OLPC-Local Labs-Developer Recruitment
10:26 walterbender SeanDaly: I have a little agenda item as well... story team
10:26 SeanDaly I still want to do a media launch of XO-1.5
10:26 walterbender: story team?
10:26 JT4Sugar That's Fedora to-do them together
10:26 walterbender SeanDaly: FYI, OLPC XO 1.5 will be running F11/Sugar 0.84 (== strawberry)
10:27 SeanDaly walterbender: yes, I'm aware... had briefed BBC journalist on that
10:27 walterbender SeanDaly: I was at RIT last week and they have a very active group re storytelling... using twitter, facebook, etc.
10:27 SeanDaly I asked him instead of saying "Linux" to say "Sugar", that we found it reductionist, lke calling the iPhone "FreeBSD" :D
10:28 walterbender: interesting... I've been gearing up for social media stuff
10:28 walterbender SeanDaly: they volunteered to take the lead for us in those arenas...
10:28 cjb SeanDaly: GNU/Sugar?  :)
10:28 SeanDaly I had thought christianv would take that branch but he's awol, probably busy with studies
10:29 cjb: hee hee
10:29 walterbender they'd be responsive to the needs of the marketing team...
10:29 SeanDaly walterbender: very interesting
10:29 walterbender and they'd of course work with ChristianV...
10:29 I'll try to get them to start attending these meetings.
10:29 SeanDaly christianv had told me that there are lots of tweets about OLPC and Sugar all the time
10:30 JT4Sugar Would be great to have them engage deployments this way and coax the children and teachers to post
10:30 SeanDaly re XO-1.5 version of Sugar: the formula I've had in mind is "an updated version of Sugar" or, "a more recent version of Sugar"
10:31 it's an issue that needs to be addressed; sj for example in a blog post had called it "the most recent version of Sugar" which unfortunately it isn't
10:32 however, I believe we could also publish the news that an uprade to the same version will be possible for the XO-1 (following bernie's work in PY)
10:32 JT4Sugar With XO 1.5 running Srawberry I think need to talk stable for deployments and Mirabelle as Future of Sugar- R&D
10:33 SeanDaly JT4sugar: yes, understandable presentation, and can also explain away why so many Activities disappeared from Mirabelle
10:33 JT4Sugar Strawberry
10:34 On one side call for deployment help on the other developer, maintainer, packager recruitment
10:34 SeanDaly a possible formula is to fold SoaS announcement nto XO-1.5 announcement, making that stable vs. future distinction
10:34 walterbender SeanDaly: the inter-compatibility with XO 1.0 is very important to deployments.
10:34 SeanDaly: stable rocks
10:34 SeanDaly walterbender: naturally
10:35 JT4Sugar Exactly then developers can choose to help deployments-stability or work on cutting edge
10:35 SeanDaly stable very important
10:36 by the way the El Nacional newspaper in Venezuela published story about OLPC with a photo from UY showing old Sugar
10:36 JT4Sugar Big push for developer resources would help Tomeu and others greatly
10:36 SeanDaly JT4sugar: developers very hard to target
10:36 tomeu I think we should first have a good relationship with deployments, then developers will come
10:36 SeanDaly however I've been thinking about a banner ad
10:36 greets tomeu
10:37 tomeu right now, nobody has time to talk with deployments about how to work with their developers
10:37 JT4Sugar True but straight out asking for help in specific areas will not hurt
10:37 SeanDaly the banner ad we ran in December-January hadover half a million impressions
10:38 but more importantly, the clickthrough came almost exclusively from FOSS tech sites
10:38 if my login is still active I will grep the stats and make a little report
10:38 JT4Sugar tomeu: I think we should work on a series of Skype calls with deployments-Do we have contact info on who these individuals are
10:39 SeanDaly My point is, running a We Need You ad on tech sites may be much more efficient than classic PR
10:40 JT4Sugar Yes but a person reading article who then bumps into a Tech friend is very realisitc
10:40 tomeu jt4sugar: my opinion is that first we need to for a team and get it discussing how to approach them
10:40 SeanDaly to reach potential developers
10:40 mchua reads up
10:40 tomeu jt4sugar: an individual calling them on the cold could be worst
10:40 mchua SeanDaly: Sorry I'm late, had another meeting... around for Mirabelle questions, though
10:41 SeanDaly JT4sugar: unfortunately, "we need developers" is not news... the trick is to pass that message mixed in with news
10:41 mchua also has her "hi! I'm from Fedora Marketing, and we just made shiny pages for spins, including SoaS" hat on.
10:41 SeanDaly hi mchua
10:41 mchua http://spins.fedoraproject.org/soas/
10:41 (some of the links point to pages that still need to be made, but the page itself is basically done.)
10:41 JT4Sugar tomeu: I'm not sure I agree an email to set up a Skype call to discuss how to create a collaborative relationship usually works pretty well
10:41 mchua JT4Sugar: I agree with "Mirabelle == R&D, contributor recruitment"
10:42 tomeu jt4sugar: as I wrote in a recent email, we have had enough of individual contacts, we need something more coordined
10:43 SeanDaly mchua: we have a real problem with Mirabelle since it is so disconnected from our marketig strategy
10:43 JT4Sugar SeanDaly: If news is XO 1.5 and Mirabelle you should be able to weave in around that yes?
10:43 SeanDaly JT4sugar: yes, that's my idea
10:44 sort of to position Sugar Labs as a key part of the OLPC ecosystem, building on what we just did
10:44 JT4Sugar tomeu: I guess my approach would be to contact them so they are part of the team we set up, maybe even leading it
10:45 tomeu jt4sugar: that sounds great, unfortunately we don't have such a team right now
10:45 mchua SeanDaly: Ok - what can we do, then?
10:45 SeanDaly: I thought the arrangement was going to be that Mirabelle was not going to be part of the usage/deployment marketing strategy you're pushing
10:45 i.e. we don't even need to do press releases about v.3.0
10:46 but that it would be a nucleation point for contributors, and that we'd do that recruiting separately.
10:46 And I'm happy to take care of that; it's the sort of marketing/outreach I know how to do, and what Fedora does well.
10:46 SeanDaly mchua: Sugar on a Stick is a central pillar of our marketing strategy, but Mirabelle is so radically altered that means we have to modify the strategy
10:47 The only real problem I have is that it's numbered v3
10:47 mchua SeanDaly: It doesn't have to be the third release you market, but it is the third release we're making; from a development point of view it is *extremely* disorienting not to number it as v.3.0.
10:48 SeanDaly v3 is a magic marketing version number and it's truly unfortiunate that no one working on SoaS sees that
10:48 mchua SeanDaly: fork marketing and development version numbers. We need a way to track the code changes for dev, so it's going to be v.3.0 from our side.
10:48 SeanDaly changing SoaS-1 to the beta-1, and SoaS-2 to v1 didn't disorient anybody though?
10:49 mchua: v1, v2, v3 *are* the marketing numbers
10:49 or  should say *were*, because we don't have a v3 we can market
10:50 it's not the end of the world, but it means a shift from our previous strategy of building momentum with SoaS
10:50 mchua doesn't know if debate on version numbers is going to be productive now - I'd rather figure out what you want to do for Mirabelle marketing, so I can figure out how best to help with the recruitment side of that.
10:50 SeanDaly well, the problem is to work on a new strategy since the existing one is no loer workable
10:51 s/loer/longer
10:51 we've identified the priority of recruiting developers
10:51 mchua nods.
10:52 SeanDaly I was saying that a banner ad may well be more efficient than classic PR
10:52 JT4Sugar Go forward an announce the Mirabelle as V3 as a R&D release to get SoaS for prime time this along with XO 1.5 with .84(strawberry was SoaS) sounds good
10:52 SeanDaly But, classic PR remains the best we have for reaching teachers and raising general awareness of Sugar
10:52 mchua SeanDaly: I'm trying to understand the strategy you want to use for Mirabelle marketing so that I can help with it; I don't think we're fundamentally in disagreement here - we both want SoaS to be made well and sustainably and in a way that will eventually be most useful and deployable in classrooms.
10:53 SeanDaly JT4sugar: re Mirabelle, that's not news... but, the XO-1.5 is news, so the idea is to mix in Mirabelle with that
10:54 mchua SeanDaly: it may not seem like it sometimes, but I honestly am *not* trying to argue or pick a fight here :)
10:54 SeanDaly mchua: SoaS has had two roles: production & teacher demo
10:54 Mirabelle no doubt is a more solid foundation for a production role
10:54 but the teacher demo role is no less important
10:55 JT4Sugar The release is happening we must embrace and take advantage of the Fedora relationship. With all the new XO announcements its Sugar everywhere supporting that with Future Sugar work on Mirabelle is important
10:55 mchua JT4Sugar: I'm happy to help with that in Fedora Marketing however I can.
10:55 runs the Fedora Marketing team, for the record.
10:55 SeanDaly We face two primary barriers: unfamiliarity - teachers don't know what Sugar is - and installation - having decided to check it out, they are confronted with technical hurdles
10:56 mchua Right. I understand the teacher demo role is important, and I do realize that Mirabelle is far less suited to that role.
10:56 We're trying to position it strongly in the production/dev side this time so we can build capacity to make it *very* good for the teacher-demo role in v.4.
10:56 SeanDaly mchua: wha would be helpful on the Fedora side would be for the SoaS page to fit with SL marketing stratey
10:57 JT4Sugar I would suggest when Mirabelle is released it will work better than Blueberry so we are going in right direction. Announce, recruit, try out
10:57 mchua SeanDaly: What changes would you like to make? Content freeze is today, so it'll be tight.
10:58 SeanDaly JT4sugar: Yes, it's problematic not to communicate about SoaS
10:58 mchua SeanDaly: We can also make changes after freeze is lifted (after May 18, which is release date), but anything you want in before May 18 needs to get pushed into the design today.
10:58 SeanDaly mchua: what does the page say now? I tried to find it and couldn't
10:58 mchua SeanDaly: http://spins.fedoraproject.org/soas
10:59 SeanDaly mchua: it needs changes
10:59 mchua SeanDaly: Patches welcome. :) I have the ability to push them to the page.
10:59 SeanDaly for example, the nomenclature is the "Sugar Learning Platform" - all of our PR uses that
11:00 mchua SeanDaly: Ok - if you send me an email with the changes you'd like in the next few hours, I'll make edits and push them up.
11:00 JT4Sugar SeanDaly: PR should be XO 1.5 Fedora 11+0.84(Millions in pipeline), local labs, mention Mirabelle as Future of Sugar, Recruitment
11:00 SeanDaly mchua: that's 1.4 to 1.6 million (depending on who you talk to), not half a million
11:00 JT4sugar: I agree
11:01 JT4sugar: and PY mention, backport of v0.84 to XO-1
11:01 mchua SeanDaly, JT4Sugar: I can't push those changes up right now, mid-meeting, but if you email me the complete list of changes to make within the next 4 hours, I will have them pushed tonight.
11:01 SeanDaly I also mention School Server every time
11:01 JT4Sugar mchua: How does that sound to you?
11:01 mchua will look at anything that hits her mel@sugarlabs.org inbox within the next 4 hours
11:01 has back to back meetings today and is going to be running hard to get this in on time
11:02 SeanDaly mchua: it's very difficult for me to do that rewrite today
11:02 mchua: how come it can't be tomorrow?
11:02 mchua JT4Sugar: The spins.fedoraproject.org page needs to be centered around the Mirabelle release; I'm not sure if we can put in local labs/XO 1.5 stuff without having them explicitly tie in, but send me text and I will see what I can do.
11:03 SeanDaly: Because the Fedora content freeze is 2 weeks before ship date, and it's a hard deadline for *all* code and content that's been set today
11:03 asked for help on spin webpage content on the SL lists a month or so ago, freeze dates have been set since the start of the release cycle
11:03 JT4Sugar SeanDaly: I am heading to Europe today so we will have to stay in touch by email to set up time for next two weeks. Italy-Greece-Great Britain
11:03 mchua SeanDaly: Unfortunately, it's not a deadline I can change.
11:03 SeanDaly mchua: what bugs me is that SL marketing keeps being left at the station
11:04 JT4sugar: wow  hope no ash cloud disturbance!
11:04 JT4Sugar mchua: That was for the Sugar Labs PR release so I don't think it necessarily need to be on Mirabelle page in Fedora wiki-the XO 1.5 stuff
11:05 SeanDaly If deadline needs to be today because of some fedora rule then I will reveiw text & send changes now
11:05 JT4Sugar SeanDaly: Actually I hope we get over then I'm stuck in Europe for the summer
11:05 mchua SeanDaly: It needs to be today because of the Fedora release deadlines, yes.
11:05 SeanDaly JT4sugar: :D
11:06 mchua SeanDaly: What can we do to keep SL marketing in better sync in the future? Fedora Marketing doesn't have any grandiose plans for doing Sugar Marketing... from that perspective, what we care about is "hey, look, it's a cool Fedora spin."
11:06 We made a webpage for it, listed Sugar as one of the talking points for the F13 release... we're pointing both things back at sugarlabs.org.
11:07 Basically, from the Fedora side, it's "look at this cool upstream we're working with."
11:07 SeanDaly mchua: it's not a problem until a journalist links to it and it gets slashdotted... then there is massive confusion and a couple of months working to combat perceptions
11:07 mchua "you should go check 'em out and join 'em."
11:07 SeanDaly: What would you like us to do?
11:08 SeanDaly mchua: it's important that Sugar be identified as distro-agnostic
11:08 JT4Sugar mchua: Release is May 18th?
11:08 SeanDaly at te same time, it's useful to mention that OLPC-OS is based on Fedora
11:08 JT4Sugar SeanDaly: When are you thinking of doing PR release?
11:09 SeanDaly XS schools erver is too although I believe Martin wants to go to CentOS when more resources
11:09 mchua JT4Sugar: Yes, May 18th for Fedora and Fedora Spins (including SoaS).
11:10 SeanDaly JT4sugar: I've wanted to do it for some time, best bet woud probably be prior to Mirabelle or the same day?
11:10 mchua SeanDaly: Sugar is distro-agnostic; Fedora is just promoting the Fedora Spin, that's all.
11:10 JT4Sugar mchua: Investing in Innovation is out, but I will be working on things NSF Grants when return from trip May 24th I will let you know
11:10 mchua SeanDaly: we have no objections to other groups promoting other distros :)
11:10 JT4Sugar: np.
11:10 SeanDaly: but the Fedora marketing team has to promote Fedora - that's our job.
11:10 SeanDaly mchua: the copy can be understood as Sugar being Fedora-only
11:11 re PR date I need to liaise with Rodrigo oat OLPC-A
11:12 mchua SeanDaly: Patches welcome, I'll be checking my inbox in a bit under 4 hours and will be pushing changes then.
11:12 SeanDaly mchua: the distros (and desktops including Gnome) are very weak brands
11:12 JT4Sugar SeanDaly: We have a few weeks to put something good together
11:13 SeanDaly JT4sugar: a key part of my plan is to prepare PR in many many languages
11:13 mchua SeanDaly: Well, I'm offering what we have, and help to the best of our ability (or in terms of this afternoon, my ability, since that's all I can promise.)
11:13 SeanDaly JT4sugar: I also want to mention the dual-desktop of XO-1.5, which means Gnome
11:15 Gnome is a weak brand, but should I think be mentioned by name in PR. But I'd need to ask Gnome marketing how to refer to it. My instinct is "a more traditional Windows-like desktop for older children"
11:15 JT4Sugar SeanDaly: Yes, would like at least to sentences on developer/deployment recruitment-our biggest need
11:16 two
11:16 SeanDaly JT4sugar: I agree, the need is critical
11:17 tomeu: perhaps we should consider "recruiting two team leaders and developers"?
11:17 JT4Sugar mchua: Good luck with all your last minute stuff today. Keep up that Great Work!
11:18 mchua JT4Sugar: Thanks for your help and patience, John - we're all running hard on this, and it takes a lot of effort to keep everyone in the same loop.
11:18 SeanDaly JT4sugar: I think the Sugar Creation Kit should be in there
11:19 JT4Sugar mchua: Very true and you all are rising to the challenge which is Awesome!
11:19 tomeu SeanDaly: sounds great to me, though most important for me are the team leaders
11:19 because welcoming coders takes time
11:20 JT4Sugar SeanDaly: Maybe we should be looking for retired project manager types
11:20 tomeu my idea is that we just need chairmans to get the team started
11:20 team leaders can come later
11:20 SeanDaly tomeu: what do you think about recruitment drive with banner ads?
11:21 tomeu SeanDaly: sounds good at first
11:21 SeanDaly tomeu: for team leaders or developers? what's more urgent?
11:22 JT4Sugar Well I'm at the airport-I will be checking email daily so let me know if you need anything.
11:22 tomeu SeanDaly: team leaders
11:22 JT4Sugar Have A Good Day!
11:22 tomeu well, leaders and non-leaders
11:22 jt4sugar:cheers!
11:22 JT4Sugar Thanks!
11:22 SeanDaly JT4sugar: Bon Voyage!!
11:23 tomeu: I will look into banner ads
11:23 tomeu alternatively, we could find someone who has time to ping the people in the olpc+sugar community that are thought to be good matches
11:23 mchua has to run
11:23 tomeu intended to do it myself, but other stuff is getting on the top of the stack
11:23 bye mchua
11:23 SeanDaly banner ads not cheap, but possibly effective
11:24 mchua: thanks for coming, will forward text changes asap
11:24 mchua SeanDaly, I'll check my inbox for spins.fedoraproject.org/soas patches in a few hours
11:24 Thanks!
11:24 nods
11:25 tomeu SeanDaly: I have described in a recent email my vision for the job and how it could take 10 hours per month to start the teams
11:25 SeanDaly tomeu: I need to run now & I have Fedora emergency, will consult with you about recruitment efforts thanks
11:25 tomeu SeanDaly: that's great, thanks for your interest
11:25 SeanDaly tomeu: Yes I have read that thead carefully
11:26 ok counting down to meeting end...
11:26 going once...
11:27 going twice...
11:28 #endmeeting

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