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#sugar-meeting, 2010-02-23

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
10:04 SeanDaly I apologize, I have been completely underwater with work & family and to top it off, the internet access for my new laptop has stopped functioning
10:04 I was gifted with an iPhone which I have apparently mastered but it's not an ideal platform for doing work on the web
10:05 JT4sugar Technology and time never have enough
10:06 SeanDaly still have to get back to Rodrigo
10:06 I am concerned however about SL trademark policy, it's dead in the water
10:06 greets Ron_F
10:06 Ron_F hello SeanDaly!
10:07 JT4sugar With Argentina announcemnet we should put out release about XO 1.5 and Sugar
10:07 SeanDaly i think to get the trademark policy debate moving again I will need to overhaul the whole thing
10:07 JT4sugar: yes that's the plan
10:08 re XO-1.5 launch PR I would like to do a carefully planned launch in as many languages simultaneously as possible
10:09 as I say I need to brief Rodrigo on SL marketing strategy
10:09 JT4sugar Since sounds like Local Lab in Argentina is involved might focus release on local lab angel that helps make these deployments flourish
10:10 SeanDaly JT4sugar: yes we have cited creation of Local Labs in PR before
10:11 in Strawberry release I think
10:13 JT4sugar Check out this link Sugar should get some talk time this week http://www.oecd.org/document/3[…]1_1_37455,00.html
10:14 The program for event  http://www.bildung.at/nml-conf[…]10/?site=programm
10:14 SeanDaly my understanding is that Rodrigo and other OLPC-A people are there
10:15 Ron_F There is a non-trivial OLPC Austria group
10:15 I tried to get a famous decorated children's book author involved with them
10:15 BUt he seems too busy
10:16 He is known as a translator as well as author
10:17 SeanDaly Ron_F: I believe David of openSUSE is active in Austrian group too
10:17 Ron_F I have not looked at their list of names in 6 months
10:18 JT4sugar SeanDaly, Yes and Ron Canuel Group Ehanced Learning Strategy Magog Quebec Canada speaking as well who is consulting on professional development with Uruguay
10:18 Peru, Uruguay, and Paraguay also have speakers
10:18 SeanDaly I considered going but it would have been too difficuult
10:19 just as well I have had a difficult time these past few weeks
10:19 since the OLPC France event which was a success
10:20 by the way OLPC is working on a brochure to be printed
10:21 JT4sugar Next week would seem to be a perfect time to engage Rodrigo fresh from the event
10:21 SeanDaly JT4sugar: yes I agree
10:22 the brochure info is on the support-gang list
10:22 JT4sugar Is brochure going to highlight Sugar?
10:22 SeanDaly I was a bit put off by anti-Sugar statements from an OLPC person
10:23 I'm not sure Sugar will be more than "mentioned"
10:23 Ron_F Oh? Like what?
10:23 SeanDaly I've been offline these past 4 days so I need to reread the thread
10:23 Ron_F Is this because of arguments over keyboard use vs touch?
10:24 i.e. the forthcoming hradware proposals
10:24 SeanDaly Ron_F: no, it's apparently just old rehash
10:24 cjb SeanDaly: oh, what were the statements?
10:25 Ron_F But with virtually no non-Sugar deploymenst on OLPC, I do not see what is still problematic
10:25 SeanDaly cjb: if you are on support-gang list?
10:26 cjb SeanDaly: haven't read it in a while, can look.. thread subject line would be useful
10:26 SeanDaly Ron_F: yes it's an odd situation: massive deployment on XO-1, soon massive on XO-1.5, meanwhile Sugar outpacing OLPC platform
10:26 cjb: challenge: communicate the XO-1.5/Sugar/Gnome experience in 2+2 paragraphs
10:27 Ron_F: historically, there has been an unfortunate disconnect between Sugar Labs and large deployments
10:27 This is a known problem
10:27 and work is ongoning to improve it
10:27 e.g. Tomeu visit to South America recently
10:28 in fact we are counting on Local labs to fill missing link in the chain
10:29 Ron_F missing link means what? custoimization for local ed systems?
10:29 JT4sugar We have a three-prong issue at hand so I believe we need a integrated three prong marketing approach that moves ahead together !. XO 1.5+Sugar 2. SoaS 3. Bringing XO 1 deployments forward
10:30 SeanDaly Ron_F: feedback from teachers and ed. depts. (and kids), curricula as studied with Sugar, etc
10:30 JT4sugar: I agree
10:30 XO-1.5 is really exciting
10:31 Gnome dual desktop is in my view an important development
10:31 cjb SeanDaly: thanks, found it.  I'm glad it got worked out somewhat by the end of the thread, at least.
10:32 SeanDaly cjb: I think I'll mail the person privately, in my experience what's best is to propose different phrases, not just criticize
10:32 cjb sure
10:32 at least support-gang's a private list; having tension in private's an improvement over having it in public :)
10:32 SeanDaly past anti-OLPC anti-Sugar marketing by Intel and others has stressed the unfamiliarity of Sugar interface, and that it is not adapted to older kids
10:33 cjb: :D agreed
10:33 JT4sugar That's very true but that excitement can be quickly dissapated with news from present deployments that Sugar Labs has not been helpful enough-perception rules
10:33 SeanDaly but Gnome dual-desktop can lay that assertion to rest
10:33 JT4sugar: true
10:33 in fact I am very much regretting that Ii don't speak Spanish
10:34 Ron_F Does Intel have more than one Linux flavr it likes to use and promote?
10:34 I recall they sort of customized a version or something?
10:34 SeanDaly Some people have forwarded interesting press links and papers to me in Spanish and I'm struggling with them
10:35 JT4sugar cjb, can you supply that thread link?
10:35 SeanDaly Ron_F: on the Classmate (pertinent Intel issue), GNU/Linux was a no-no until about 9 months ago
10:35 cjb Ron_F: Moblin, now Meego
10:35 SeanDaly Canonical missioned an education guy to work on them and others
10:35 Ron_F Re: Classmate - I find that surprising
10:35 yeah Moblin
10:36 SeanDaly as a result, Ubuntu now a referenced preinstall on Classmate
10:36 cjb JT4sugar: http://lists.laptop.org/privat[…]ruary/007926.html , if you're on support-gang.  looks like it was just a miscommunication.
10:36 SeanDaly of course, Windows XP was a referenced preinstall on the XO-1 too
10:36 JT4sugar cjb, thanks
10:36 SeanDaly refernce <> sales
10:36 but it's a big step`
10:37 Intel could be interested in referencing Sugar
10:38 Not sure however which underlying distro could help with that
10:38 Ubuntu Sugar remix (dfarning) could be an angle
10:38 or fedora
10:39 or openSUSE which has an education spin
10:39 JT4sugar Can someone just contact Intel and ask them to add Sugar to their offering it's Free
10:39 SeanDaly JT4sugar: at Educatice show in Paris I spent two hours over two days trying to find somebody from Intel
10:40 They had a huge stand which was empty both days except for brochures
10:40 JT4sugar Need to contact Intel World Ahead program
10:40 SeanDaly I've had so much on my plate I haven't been able to advance on that front
10:41 Ron_F Does Intel have a problem with Sugar because it is used on OLPC, so that they may feel promoting Sugar legitimates OLPC (i.e. hardware competition)
10:41 SeanDaly ideally we could be referenced in time for their Classmate international partners meeting
10:41 previous one was last JJune in Cairo if i remember correctly
10:41 Ubuntu feloow presented
10:42 s/feloow/fellow
10:42 JT4sugar A phone call and conversation would at least get an idea of the prospects of Sugar on the classmate offerings
10:43 SeanDaly JT4sugar: true
10:43 it's a sensitive issue for OLPC because Classmate remains chief competitor
10:44 this is why I publicly speak about converting exisiting Classmate deployments, as opposed to new ones
10:44 JT4sugar Yes thats very understandable
10:44 SeanDaly s/exisiting/existing
10:45 JT4sugar I have the Dell 2100 contact I have yet to follow up with awaiting some kind of OK
10:45 Ron_F I take it you already have a recipe for the Classmate conversion that works reliably over all models
10:45 SeanDaly It would bother me and I am sure many others if a country chose Classmate with Sugar over OLPC XO-1.5 with Sugar
10:45 Yes we need to follow up Dell 2100
10:46 it's a different market, that machine is not direct competitor to OLPC
10:46 Ron_F I thought SL was "hardware agnostic"
10:46 SeanDaly at Educatice Dell had a stand with 24 machines
10:46 The Dell guy's eyes poppoed out when I showed him my 2100 running Blueberry
10:47 I gave him my card but the salon was closing, he was out of cards (should have written down his contact info)
10:47 Ron_F: Sugar is indeed hardware agnostic
10:48 Ron_F so what is "It would bother me..."?
10:48 SeanDaly what would bother me is Intel's history of undermining OLPC sales
10:48 This didn't happen in all countries
10:49 Ron_F When Intel reads "It would bother me..." they might think twice about accepting Sugar
10:50 SeanDaly as a firm supporter of OLPC i would rather Intel played fair
10:50 JT4sugar It would seem that Sugar on a classmate might help XO 1.5 becuase it's lower price and that makes it great choice for developing countries. There is enough customers for everyone to benefit and they all would have Sugar
10:51 walterbender apologizes for being late yet again
10:51 SeanDaly They are aware of Sugar; contacted Walter last year. I should dig out the contact. However, read recent IDG interview of World Ahead person; instructive
10:51 greets walterbender
10:52 JT4sugar: Classmate's market is large developing countries
10:53 dirakx1 Hello.
10:53 walterbender re Intel, I support our working with them on the Classmate...
10:53 Ron_F hello dirakx1
10:54 dirakx1 Ron_F: Hi-
10:54 SeanDaly walterbender: yes, I too; I had just mentioned that it's a sensitive topic for OLPC
10:54 greets dirakx1
10:55 Ron_F: if you glance at my OLPC FFrance presentation at L'Atelier BNP Paribas
10:55 i have photo of Sugar on XO-1, Gen2 Classmate, Dell 2100
10:55 Ron_F good
10:56 dirakx1 f.e we worked with them, they lend us some classmates (version 2 and 3).
10:56 JT4sugar I believe with Dell 2100 and Intel Classmate it's making phone calls and asking "What do we(Sugar Labs) need to do to get on your machines?" Then the question is can we line up support to do it
10:56 SeanDaly http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/M[…]eam/Presentations
10:56 under "2010"
10:56 JT4sugar: agreed
10:57 let's not underestimate though dev man-days necessary to adapt to hardware
10:57 on which distro would Sugar run on Classmate, Dell 2100 ?
10:58 Ron_F How fast is Intel revving their designs?
10:58 JT4sugar If we make good enough case to them they should offer development support because it's in their interest
10:58 SeanDaly Ron_F: Gen3, the swing-screen tablet, has just had a refresh
10:58 dirakx1 i've tested (in classmates) Soas. although strawberry not blueberry.
10:58 SeanDaly JT4sugar: yes
10:59 dirakx1 bottom line it's fedora
10:59 SeanDaly dirakx1: Strawberry and Blueberry boot both my Gen1 and Gen2 Classmates
10:59 dirakx1 SeanDaly: nice.
10:59 walterbender catching up on the backlog, Ron_F: the Magellan Classmate (perhaps their largest deployment) runs Ciaxa Magica.
10:59 SeanDaly dirakx1: I think that's certainly the most mature
10:59 walterbender SeanDaly: and the gen 3 Classmare
11:00 SeanDaly walterbender: ah yes forgot about that one) is it a Mandriva variant?
11:00 walterbender ^mare^mate
11:00 SeanDaly: yes... the Portuguese version of Mandriva.
11:00 SeanDaly I have not yet found reliable numbers for Classmate deployments
11:01 between 800K and 1.5 million in the press
11:01 counting alll three gens
11:01 walterbender SeanDaly: there are numbers published from Magellan somewhere...
11:01 SeanDaly Gen1 was a very, very limited machine though
11:01 I meant all Classmates; yes I think there are reliable Magellan numbers
11:02 need to look
11:03 I think I'll arrrange a visit to Mandriva in Paris and talk about it
11:03 JT4sugar With Dell angle we can push a Virtual Machine/Sugar solution that would allow Sugar to be available to thin clients-School district desktops. Then follow on with Soas or on-board Sugar for netbooks
11:04 SeanDaly here's a link to IDG article about Classmate Gen3 refresh
11:04 http://www.pcworld.com/busines[…]ate_netbooks.html
11:05 JT4sugar: a key to the 2100 sales pitch is the classroom charger
11:05 Dell has very high markup on it
11:05 it has magic
11:05 can software update charging machines at night while they sleep
11:05 thru Ethernet
11:07 Ron_F Do we have any idea how Windows/Linux fractions are breaking on Classmate now that Linux is ok?
11:07 SeanDaly http://accessories.us.dell.com[…]s=04&sku=330-4381
11:07 that's the charging station
11:08 Ron_F Does Windows on Classmate usually qualify for the $3/unit Microsoft Unlimited Potential price?
11:08 SeanDaly Ron_F: to my knowledge Magellan is the only non-WinXP deployment; but it is certainly the largest Classmate deployment
11:08 Ron_F: I assume that's the case
11:09 the charging station has wifi router too
11:09 it would be great if we could hook Sugar states into Dell 2100 tattletale light
11:09 which is a white LED built into the lid
11:10 by default, blinks if wifi activity
11:10 but according to dell, can be programmed for e.g. light up when task completed
11:11 wat launch, somebody from the project said in an interview that they were looking at several coolored LEDs in the lid for a future version
11:11 the idea being to help teacher avoid running around the classroom looking at screens
11:13 that charging station only does 24 units though
11:13 needs to run soon...
11:13 JT4sugar We need to think about ways to engage Dell and Intel so they bring resources to the effort because Sugar gives their products added Value. Collaboration ability a huge plus.
11:15 SeanDaly JT4sugar: dfarning had had some background discussions with Dell a while back (maybe last spring?)
11:15 he had told me they had said: "let's talk when you can sell 5 million units"
11:16 now, leaving aside that SL doesn't sell anything,
11:16 walterbender fwiw, I have had an on-going discussion with Dell...
11:16 SeanDaly it's true that it's a chicken-and-egg situation
11:16 walterbender we'll get there eventually...
11:16 SeanDaly walterbender: yes
11:16 this is why I am interested in OSOR's offer to reference Sugar for EU administrations (schools)
11:17 JT4sugar Would you like me to call Dell 2100 program manager to find out possibilities?
11:17 SeanDaly JT4sugar: ideally, you could work with Walter on that?
11:17 walterbender JT4sugar: no reason not to come at them from many different angles...
11:17 SeanDaly we should at least be meeting with them to show Suggar running on the 2100
11:18 easier said than done, can't fly to Texas every day ;-)
11:18 Ron_F Maybe I should ask OLPC this: when someone comes to OLPC asking to buy 10 evaluation units, what does it tell them? Go to Intel for Classmates?
11:19 walterbender Ron_F: maybe CanoeBerry can help you... none of the rest of us speak for OLPC (cjb excepted)
11:19 JT4sugar SeanDaly, I will call and see what I can find out-maybe we can get representative to meet you Sean-Where are you now?
11:20 SeanDaly JT4sugar: Paris... Dell HQ for France is here
11:20 cjb Ron_F: I think we might point at Dell rather than Intel :)
11:20 (hey, Dell's cheaper!)
11:21 Ron_F Wait - but Dell does not install Suagr, right?
11:21 SeanDaly Ron_F: re Intel, keep in mind main Intel selling points:
11:21 cjb sure.  neither does Intel.
11:21 SeanDaly 1) local assembly (jobs), and
11:22 2) Intel Learning Series software for teachers (Windows)
11:22 Ron_F So if you want low quantity laptops with Sugar, you must install and support yourself
11:22 cjb Ron_F: Correct.
11:23 Ron_F Have you "certified" SoaS with certain laptops?
11:23 cjb you == Sugar Labs?
11:23 Ron_F esp really cheap netbooks
11:23 SeanDaly Ron_F: Gerald Ardito deployed XO-1s and Dell 2100s
11:23 Ron_F yeah SL
11:23 SeanDaly Ron_F: we are looking for a testing program coordinator ;-)
11:23 Ron_F lol
11:24 SeanDaly it's true... to certify anything we need to test... it's totally ad hoc right now
11:24 JT4sugar Wouldn't a Virtual Machine/Sugar Solution be able to be downloaded and run on a windows machine?
11:24 SeanDaly which is normal considering how many different sorts of hardware are out there
11:25 JT4sugar: indeed
11:25 if it has the proc cycles
11:25 at Educatice I had people gasping when I rebooted a Classmate with WinXP into SoaS from an SD card
11:26 Ron_F Back in the day I ran your use-it-on-Windows version of Sugar a few times
11:26 SeanDaly and then back into Windows... to show the Fedora liveusb creator ;-)
11:27 JT4sugar A Virtual Machine solution would be very important for school districts because allows them to apply needed(law) internet filters
11:28 SeanDaly JT4sugar:
11:29 Ron_F Was the WIndows-platform stuff I used years ago more limited than "real" Sugar at that time?
11:29 SeanDaly filtering indispensable, whhich is wjy I always mention XS school server in PR and presentations
11:29 but there are VM variants of Blueberry already, no?
11:30 I have very limited Intternet access at home so I haven't been able to test VM under Win7
11:31 satellit Blueberry vmx and vdi on http://people.sugarlabs.org/Tg[…]eberry-vmx.tar.gz
11:31 JT4sugar Yes-in a talk with Oakland Schools Technology Director that was biggest hurdle she said must be satisfied-She said if given VM solution that would allow them to apply safety control needed
11:32 SeanDaly thanks satellit
11:32 Ron_F I guess Sugar on OLPC uses some special decorated buttons - is a kit of keytop decals needed for other laptops?
11:32 SeanDaly JT4sugar: would that be on laptops? desktops?
11:33 JT4sugar satellit, Does VM solution allow for backup for Soas?
11:33 SeanDaly Ron_F: special OLPC keys are mappped to function keys
11:33 satellit only as dd to .img of sticks
11:33 Ron_F decals are luxurious, but would be nice
11:34 SeanDaly but as stated previously it would be worth our while to discuss Sugarized third-party keybaords with OEMs such as Cherry
11:34 satellit should work like any other stick via VB or VMPlayer
11:34 Ron_F I Guess youy can tape a strip of paper above the PF keys
11:34 SeanDaly JT4sugar: quite possible school server does that
11:34 JT4sugar SeanDaly, My understanding is both because they would be offering solutions through a web portal-Virtualized environment allows them to serve students from a central server
11:36 satellit also as VM can just copy VM HD
11:41 SeanDaly need to sign off....
11:42 Ron_F bids farewell to SeanDaly
11:42 SeanDaly #endmeeting

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