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#sugar-meeting, 2010-01-29

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
11:04 walterbender how about a quick rollcall?
11:04 waves
11:04 cjb here
11:06 walterbender cjb: did everyone else suddenly leave?
11:06 SeanDaly hi walterbender
11:06 walterbender almost a quorum :)
11:06 bernie here too
11:06 walterbender Here is the agenda:
11:06 bernie CanoeBerry, mchua: ping
11:06 tomeu here
11:07 walterbender 1. review of TM discussion status
11:07 2. report from the OLPC meeting in Miami
11:07 mchua here
11:07 walterbender 3. update from the infrastructure team?
11:07 anything else?
11:07 mchua not fromme.
11:08 walterbender #Topic TM
11:08 mchua wants to thank SeanDaly for all the work he's done on the TM stuff this week, case studies page looks *awesome*
11:08 walterbender Sean, do you want to summarize where we are at the moment?
11:08 cjb we seem to finally have got people talking about trademarks on the list :) thanks for the case studies page!
11:08 SeanDaly thanks mchua sorry I only got to it last night
11:08 walterbender just made some cosmetic changes to the case-study text
11:09 SeanDaly I feel the case studies page has indeed helped us to reflect on the policy
11:09 and, revealed differing points of view cf. today's interesting exchanges with cjb, Sascha and myself
11:10 I feel it is important to explain how I have arrived at my point of view
11:10 otherwise, we could vote in sthing others in the community could find they are in disagreement with
11:10 of course, not saying everyone has to agree,
11:11 but my vision is not necessarily the best one :D :D
11:12 at the risk of being strung up on the yardarm,
11:12 cjb SeanDaly: I think your vision is pretty understandable, for a marketing guy.  It's normal that the free software hippies and the marketing folks don't see entirely eye to eye.  :)
11:12 SeanDaly I feel it may be necessary to debate further, then to refine language before a vote
11:12 walterbender SeanDaly: it seemed to me that there are two threads: (1) written vs implicit permission  and (2) are we being too restrictive
11:12 cjb SeanDaly: yeah, nowhere near a vote yet, let's keep the discussion going.
11:12 walterbender: that sounds right
11:12 SeanDaly cjb: the marketing people often think of me as geeky hippie
11:13 cjb SeanDaly: :)
11:13 SeanDaly walterbender: yes 2 issues
11:13 walterbender SeanDaly:  maybe the way to deal with (1) is review language...
11:14 if we ask that they inform us on some schedule, like 1x per year, we can audit...
11:14 SeanDaly yes, my concept is a period, with renewal procedure
11:14 mchua would like to hear more about where SeanDaly's perspective comes from
11:15 bernie cjb: we're lucky to have SeanDaly. he's the hippiest marketing guy we could have hoped for :-)
11:15 walterbender To me it seems that the important thing is we find out so we can ensure that the rules are being adhered to... but the ping back of written permission need not be a necessary step...
11:15 tomeu :D
11:15 SeanDaly an audit can be quick, for active community participants we know; or take more time to verify companies playing fair; or some research to find if somebody who has disappeared is elsewhere
11:15 walterbender of course, if they ask for written permission, we could give it.
11:16 SeanDaly walterbender: my concern is, someone ill-intentioned claims a mail was sent when it never was... end of story
11:16 walterbender so if they ask, then they get implicit permission for (fill in the blank)...
11:16 sdziallas walterbender: just wondering, has anybody already mentioned a "fair use" clause as Gnome's doing it?
11:16 walterbender sdziallas:  no se
11:17 SeanDaly sure - boilerplate license agreement as Mel suggested, PDF
11:17 greets sdziallas
11:17 cjb sdziallas: I believe the presence of trademark fair use exists outside of any trademark policy
11:17 the trademark policy can't override it; it's just there.
11:17 sdziallas (IANAL, but one could argue that "fair use" works as we define it - and once somebody comes up with bad intentions, it's no "fair use" anymore and they need permission.)
11:17 SeanDaly cjb: sure - any news outlet can publish a logo
11:17 cjb sdziallas: no, you can't do that.
11:17 sdziallas cjb: well, but you can define what "fair use" is, no?
11:17 cjb no.
11:17 sdziallas hints at: http://foundation.gnome.org/licensing/guidelines/
11:18 (hi SeanDaly at el, btw) ;)
11:18 cjb you can't define what fair use for copyright is, either.
11:18 SeanDaly sdziallas: I will look at that, however, I remain more interested in successful brands than unknown ones (to nongeeks)
11:18 sdziallas ACTION goes quoting: "You may make fair use of GNOME word marks to make true factual statements GNOME, or to truthfully communicate that your product or service is compatible with, designed for use with, or was designed using, GNOME. Assertions of compatibility, design, must, of course, be accurate. You cannot use GNOME logos or stylizations of GNOME word or other GNOME Trademarks unless you have explicit written permission to do so. You shou
11:18 mchua would still like to hear where SeanDaly's perspective is coming from - as a marketer, and someone who deals with lawyers, what are the things that are usually concerning?
11:18 (some of these are already written out, but... just to kinda sum them up in one place)
11:19 sdziallas shuts up. (was just wondering) ;)
11:19 SeanDaly re fair use: lawyers & courts at work on that all the time
11:19 mchua 'cause I think many of the rest of us are hackers, and prioritize low-barrier-to-entry stuff over... almost everything else. "ask forgiveness, not permission" mentality.
11:19 cjb sdziallas: So, I think the ability to make factual statements comes from trademark law itself, not from that text of GNOME's that says that you have the ability; it would be there either way.
11:19 mchua which, obviously, doesn't really work the same way here.
11:19 SeanDaly mchua: well... former developer, current marketer, with a whiff of legal after years at Groklaw
11:19 walterbender sdziallas, SeanDaly: in any case, GNOME asks that explicit permission be obtained (see 5.)
11:20 sdziallas cjb: heh, that makes some sense, indeed. but I'd bet that both Gnome and Fedora had some lawyers thinking through what they were doing.
11:20 SeanDaly let's put it this way: how do you deal with abuse
11:20 cjb sdziallas: sure.  it's helpful of GNOME to show that they're adhering to the common understandings of fair use.
11:20 SeanDaly any lawyer will tell you is much easier when explicit deal broken
11:20 sdziallas walterbender: yup, right.
11:20 bernie SeanDaly: you send a cease & desist letter?
11:20 mchua SeanDaly: moving from developer to marketer (with a whiff of legal), sounds like something that needs to be learned to make that mindset switch is how to do the hypothetical "what if there were Bad People Everywhere?" thought experiment?
11:21 SeanDaly bernie: hee hee I don't, the SFC does
11:22 CanoeBerry SeanDaly: a web page can be set asking people to agree to the legal agreement. Period.
11:22 They click "I Agree"
11:22 cjb (my answer to how do you enforce -- by encoding your constraints in the trademark policy, and sending C&D if they aren't followed.)
11:22 CanoeBerry Done
11:23 bernie CanoeBerry: I agree
11:23 CanoeBerry: sorry for the pun
11:23 CanoeBerry: Ubuntu does it by asking you to send the agreement back by email, signed with gpg
11:23 cjb bernie: ooh, that's a nice step
11:24 bernie CanoeBerry: it's much more legally binding, I guess. and only slightly more annoying
11:24 SeanDaly CanoeBerry: that's fine if we don't care about checking them out... but we do
11:24 cjb so you send a mail to automatic-trademarks@, it sends you back a copy of the policy, which you gpg-sign and e-mail back
11:24 bernie I'm totally against sending papers by snail mail like the fsf does. they're leaving in the 20th century.
11:24 walterbender It seems like we are converging on a closed-loop process, regardless of the details of how the loop is closed.
11:25 sdziallas cjb: Fedora does that for the CLA, too - interesting.
11:25 cjb yeah, I think this mostly needs time to digest on the lists.  We probably shouldn't argue much here, it's better to have the conversation on the lists anyway.
11:25 SeanDaly bernie: I wouldn't second-guess the FSF's methods, they have been extremely effective guardians of the GPL and its freedoms
11:25 bernie now that we all agree on the process, we'll probably want to move on arguing on the actually contents of the agreement :-)
11:25 SeanDaly Perhaps one way to put it is: should license be a mere formality or not
11:26 cjb :)
11:26 SeanDaly: I don't think that's the issue at all
11:26 SeanDaly In my view, it should not
11:26 cjb you can have a strong set of trademark constraints, just as the GPL has a strong set of copyright constraints
11:26 SeanDaly because we want to grow ecosystem
11:26 cjb and they can be available automatically
11:26 just because the GPL is automatically transferred, that doesn't mean it's "a formality"
11:26 you just said you think it's being successfully enforced :)
11:27 SeanDaly if licensing a clickthrough formality, discussion is discouraged
11:27 I'd much rather we learn from & exchange with potential partners
11:27 cjb I'd like us to do that too
11:27 SeanDaly in particular classroom feedback
11:27 bernie SeanDaly: the nice thing about granting a license is that, if it is void for any reason, then the third party has no license whatsoever and is using the work in violation of copyright.
11:27 cjb do we have to threaten them with legal stuff to get them to talk to us?
11:28 bernie: for a copyright license, at least, yeah.
11:28 it's the nice thing about a license that encodes its constraints and revokes itself if they fail to be met.
11:28 SeanDaly bernie: sure, but a trademark much easier to damage
11:28 that's why copyright & trademark law distinct
11:28 bernie cjb: I thought (maybe incorrectly) that a trademark license would work pretty much the same.
11:29 cjb bernie: yeah; I just sent a mail out to the lists that makes the same claim
11:29 bernie cjb: that is, you retain all rights unless you grant a valid license to someone on conditions you decide.
11:29 ah ok
11:29 SeanDaly no, what is commonly called "intellectual property" (term hated by FSF) is meant to cover very different legal contexts of copyrights, trademarks, patents, and trade secrets
11:30 bernie SeanDaly: yep
11:30 SeanDaly trademarks are a special animal: very hard to build a brand, very easy to break it
11:31 usual brand building is done with massive advertising & promotion expense
11:31 we have to be smarter since we're poorer
11:32 since brand easily breakable, much more caution necessary; very different from free sofware copyright context
11:33 walterbender are we stalled out for the moment?
11:33 SeanDaly our balancing act needs to be: spread awareness, build up brand values, avoid confusion
11:33 cjb SeanDaly: we weren't trying to draw a parallel between trademark and copyrights in general, just in that it is possible to write licenses for both that are automatic, declare what needs to be done for the license to be/stay valid, and revoke itself if the conditions are no longer met.
11:33 SeanDaly walterbender: well, I believe there is still discussion to be had on the lists
11:33 walterbender can I suggest an action to be continuing for another week on the lists?
11:34 cjb walterbender: probably more than, even.  seconded.
11:34 walterbender but with a focus on the two issues: (1) process and (2) scope?
11:34 SeanDaly cjb: again, what works for copyright won't necessarily work for trademark protection
11:34 walterbender: ok
11:35 bernie walterbender: +1
11:35 cjb: what you said
11:35 walterbender OK. I'll try to summarize today's discussion for the lists...
11:35 cjb walterbender: thanks
11:35 what's up next?
11:35 walterbender #ACTION: Walter to summarize latest TM discussion for the lists...
11:35 #TOPIC: trip report: OLPC meeting in Miami
11:35 SeanDaly here's an analogy: a famous golfer spent years cultivating an image of prefection which was wrecked in three days...
11:36 bernie I guess we all agree on the "gpg signed agreement filed by email or web form" part
11:36 cjb bernie: yeah, I just mailed that idea out too for discussion
11:36 SeanDaly walterbender: was unaware you were down there! great
11:36 walterbender I spent 3 days in the OLPC office in Miami.
11:36 It was a meeting with representatives from many of their major deployments.
11:36 bernie walterbender: yeah I hope you had a good time with cecilia
11:37 she should be back soon
11:37 walterbender I got a chance to talk about Sugar and Sugar Labs and listen to reports from the deployments, including a report on the amazing work in Paraguay
11:38 There is great enthusiasm for Sugar throughout the organization and with all of the deployments.
11:38 And they want to work more closely with us.
11:38 SeanDaly great
11:38 walterbender A few concrete things came out of the meetings:
11:39 (1) They reiterated their desire to work with us on marketing. Sean, perhaps it would be timely to ping Rodrigo and Chuck again, while it is fresh in their minds.
11:39 SeanDaly walterbender: will do (Rodrigo had never answered my mails)
11:40 walterbender (2) We discussed getting more direct feedback through OLPC channels, not just hit-or-miss with the deployments themselves.
11:40 Claudia agreed to join our Design meetings, which will add important on-the-ground perspectives.
11:40 cjb this sounds pretty promising
11:41 let me know if I can help poke anyone to follow through :)
11:41 walterbender (3) We agreed in principle (but need to work out the details) of a model where by OLPC would offer up to deployments some Sugar developer time to help est. "local lab" teams for contributing to Sugar and FOSS.
11:42 Sort of like developer training to complement teacher training, to be partially subsidized by OLPC and partially subsidized by the deployments.
11:42 SeanDaly fabulous
11:42 walterbender In other words, they will help us get Sugar teams est. as part of the sales and deployment process.
11:43 (4) They offered to host the next Sugar camp in Miami.
11:43 bernie things are coming back together nicely
11:43 walterbender (I have access to several apartments there with couch and sleeping bag space, and beach access :) )
11:44 and they have a great work space we can use.
11:44 mchua walterbender: any notes on timeline for that? this summer, etc?
11:44 bernie walterbender: are there public minutes or slides from the meeting?
11:44 SeanDaly wow great Miami
11:44 walterbender We need to get back to them with when we want the next camp...
11:44 bernie walterbender: and the list of deployments and other participants?
11:45 walterbender bernie: They took extensive notes... I don't have copies yet. I'll see what I can dig up.
11:45 tomeu perhaps we need to set our HQ there, instead of a sugar camp :p
11:45 SeanDaly in alligator country
11:45 walterbender tomeu: it is very nice there... and very easy access for Latin America.
11:46 I have a lot of follow up to do, but all in all, it was a very productive 3 days.
11:47 bernie walterbender: did someone explained why olpc is moving there from boston, btw?
11:47 CanoeBerry Moving ain't quite the word :)
11:47 walterbender #Action: schedule the Miami Sugar Camp (after discussions on the list)
11:47 bernie CanoeBerry: ah, it's a branch?
11:48 walterbender here is my understanding:
11:48 CanoeBerry P2P network ;)
11:48 walterbender the Association has moved to Miami.
11:48 the Foundation remains in Cambridge
11:48 the Association is primarily dedicated to deployments
11:48 the Foundation is primarily dedicated to fund-raising and engineering
11:49 CanoeBerry, cjb: did I get that right?
11:49 CanoeBerry Good enough.
11:49 You prob saw the OLPCorps and Interns announcements in the last week.
11:49 cjb yep
11:49 SeanDaly walterbender: still a mystery to me how press relations & marketing works with two OLPC structures
11:50 CanoeBerry Many such "deployment" stuff is spread between Miami and Cambridge.
11:50 walterbender There seem to be a few deployments run from the foundation, but mostly it is association
11:50 bernie CanoeBerry: url?
11:50 cjb bernie: I'm not moving anywhere :)
11:50 CanoeBerry http://blog.laptop.org
11:50 http://blog.laptop.org/2010/01/20/2010-olpcorps/
11:51 http://blog.laptop.org/2010/01[…]2010-internships/
11:51 SeanDaly OLPC Europe does PR too aside from sales, cf. press interviews
11:51 cjb walterbender: I guess the ones being run with donated laptops would be foundation, association is handling all finances for deployments I think.
11:51 walterbender I think OLPC Europe reports to the Association (at least loosely)
11:52 In any case, the point is that there is a deployment-facing team in Miami that wants to work closely with us.
11:52 bernie walterbender: YAY
11:52 mchua Any decisions that need to be made (or that will need to be made) SLOBs-wise for that?
11:52 like "what does a partnership mean, do we need to sign any pieces of paper" etc?
11:53 walterbender No decisions... just a trip report.
11:53 CanoeBerry (Of course, it's convenient that Claudia actually in Cambridge ;)
11:53 walterbender We may have to make some decisions as the details of how a local Sugar Labs agreement might come into exisitance.
11:53 tomeu ah, claudia is in cambridge?
11:53 CanoeBerry Yes, Claudia lives in the Boston area.
11:53 tomeu walterbender: maybe she would like to get involved in the experience testing in ny?
11:54 walterbender but she works closely with the Miami team...
11:56 Next up, infrastructure? Since Bernie is here?
11:56 bernie good
11:56 walterbender #topic infrastructure
11:56 bernie: can you just give us a quick status report?
11:56 bernie We're working with RIT to get 3 old servers racked there
11:57 the servers are being donated by the Wikimedia foundation
11:57 lfaraone is working on getting the machines shipped to RIT
11:57 dogi waves bernie
11:58 bernie RIT's Prof. Stephens got us the hosting offer
11:59 our contact at the CSH is decause, who lurks often on #sugar. we met him at FUDcon.
12:00 the machines may turn out to be really bad, we don't know yet
12:00 in which case, we'd need a contingency plan
12:00 such as acquiring the ~$3000 machine we were planning before this opportunity even came up
12:01 the cluster at RIT will run ASLO, which is probably our most important service.
12:01 reliability is very important to us
12:01 SeanDaly may I ask a silly question?
12:01 bernie dfarning has a good plan to spread the load on these 3 machines in such a way that any one of them could die without stopping the service
12:01 SeanDaly: sure
12:02 SeanDaly is there an advantage to racking & maintaining directly as opposed to a service? just cost?
12:02 bernie dogi will be on site to coordinate the project: racking of machines, OS installation, etc.
12:02 dogi if somebody wants to know more details, here are the logs: http://me.etin.gs/treehouse/tr[…]0100126_1601.html
12:03 mchua appreciates this infrastructure report - very helpful to know what's going on, and it helps us make budget decisions (like the one last week)
12:03 bernie SeanDaly: gregdek of red hat offered some free amazon EC access for us... but it's not clear when it will become available
12:04 SeanDaly: I'm lurking on a mailing list where people are coordinating to develop a good Fedora image for us to use
12:04 tomeu virtual machines hosted on someone else's computers has caused problems in the past to us, right?
12:04 mchua bernie: I thought the blocker on that was "when we can get F12 images on amazon"
12:05 bernie SeanDaly: if it weren't for Red Hat, I'd disregard any existing cloud service out there due to costs.
12:05 mchua bernie: I think (I don't know for sure, but we could check) that requirement came from your side of things, not RH's.
12:05 bernie SeanDaly: our services are heavyweight. the cloud stuff is meant for small websites
12:05 SeanDaly ok clear thanks
12:05 dogi I think the most important thing is the relationship with RIT/CSH and the students which will help us there ...
12:05 bernie mchua: exactly. F12 images are not yet available... it seems to be an Amazon-side issue as well as a Fedora-side issue
12:06 mchua Ok. So bernie, that's basically the blocker for... no matter where it comes from, that's the only blocker?
12:06 bernie mchua: RH is of course also interested in getting F12 on EC2. Now they have F8, which... sucks.
12:06 mchua oh geez that's old.
12:06 bernie mchua: no. there's also the cost issue. I don't think greg can set aside so much money for us...
12:06 mchua bernie: the cloud SIG in Fedora is probably the place where that work will happen, if you want to watch. http://gregdekspeaks.wordpress[…]fedora-cloud-sig/
12:07 tomeu now that we are so offtopic, is it know on which fedora relesae will be based the next rhel?
12:07 bernie mchua: unless red hat has a special contract with EC2
12:07 mchua tomeu: you're right, we're offtopic... sorry, back to agenda
12:07 walterbender we should prob. end the meeting...
12:07 bernie mchua:  I'm expecting ASLO alone to cost some $3000-4000 per year.
12:07 mchua walterbender: any notes for what we want to do next week?
12:07 TM again, I'm guessing, after the community gets another feedback round in?
12:08 walterbender mchua: next week, I'd like to discuss our 2010 goals
12:08 bernie mchua: yes I'm subscribed to the Cloud SIG mailing-list, but I'm skeptical that we can ready in two weeks or so
12:08 SeanDaly TM list discussion continues even as we speak ;-)
12:08 walterbender bernie: any action you need from us at the moment?
12:08 mchua walterbender: +1
12:08 bernie It's quite important to be ready in 2-3 weeks because SCHOOLS WILL OPEN IN LATAM!
12:08 mchua is awed by the TM list thread, it's AWESOME
12:08 SeanDaly 2010 goals very important
12:09 bernie If we're not prepared to deal with the traffic, infrastructure will collapse
12:09 mchua does everyone have homework to come with their individual list and try to get others in the community to write theirs?
12:09 (individual thoughts on individual 2010 goals, sl 2010 goals, and how the two might map?)
12:09 tomeu bernie: I don't understand yet why we don't cache more of aslo
12:09 walterbender (when the .uy kids come back from vacation, they'll all want to download the new version of Turtle Art :)
12:09 tomeu do we need to have it so dynamic?
12:09 heh
12:09 bernie Dfarning thinks that working with RIT would also help develop important partnerships for the future. They want to get students involved.
12:10 walterbender (but the new TA is only 10% of the footprint of the old one :) )
12:10 bernie tomeu: bandwidth is not an issue (and downloads are cached anyway)
12:10 davidfarning I would appreciate feed make on my working with Bozano
12:10 tomeu bernie: no, caching processed pages
12:10 bernie tomeu: or did you mean caching web pages? not really feasible
12:10 tomeu bernie: so they don't hit the php engine
12:10 SeanDaly greets davidfarning
12:10 bernie tomeu: it's not a wiki, it's more of a search engine
12:11 tomeu: caching works best for applications servers, where most of the hits are actually to static content (js, png, css...)
12:11 tomeu bernie: ok, but the same url gives the same content 90% of the time, right?
12:11 bernie tomeu: in the case of php, those are *already* being served quickly by apache without bothering php
12:11 tomeu: so, the load we see is really caused by web pages we'd have toserve
12:11 tomeu bernie: not sure, I think most of the people go to a few urls, and those present the same info to all of them
12:12 bernie tomeu: we can descend into tech details later on #sugar, but caching the search results, etc is extremely hard. links would break randomly, etc.
12:12 cjb we use a cache for olpc's wiki
12:12 tomeu ok, I trust you
12:12 bernie tomeu: it also really doesn't make sense because a normal $3000 machine can easily do 8-10x the current load
12:13 cjb the wiki proper sends a cache invalidation request to the slaveswhen a page changes
12:13 bernie cjb: yes, mediawiki is easy and profitable to cache
12:13 cjb: but remora is a different kind of application, I don't believe it's equally easy to cache. people are welcome to try, though.
12:14 so, from an exclusively practical PoV (reliability, simplicity, cost), I'd recommend buying a machine
12:14 from a strategical pov, RIT is interesting too
12:15 dogi bernie, think the RIT students will try :P
12:16 SeanDaly I'd be in favor of buying a machine and contributing C-notes for it
12:16 bernie dogi: yeah, I have faith in their commitment, especially since prof stephen jacobs is backing them
12:16 SeanDaly experience has taught me that whenever you think you have enough capacity, a tsunami of visitors arrive
12:17 mchua walterbender: we're getting kinda late... assign goals homework, #endmeeting?
12:17 bernie SeanDaly: lol
12:17 I was going to ask the board to pre-approve a budget of $3000 for the infrastructure, which I'll use only in case the current plan fails.
12:18 if we set aside the money now, I'll be able to move quickly in case of need
12:18 SeanDaly I am favorable
12:18 mchua as well.
12:19 bernie btw, we also need to start thinking on replacements for Solarsail. Ivan and I think that it should be dismissed soon or later.
12:19 walterbender Ok. it is a wrap.
12:19 cjb bernie: generally favorable, but we don't have a treasurer so it's hard to know how to prioritize.  this is maybe 50% of our finances.
12:19 walterbender thanks everyone for attending today !
12:19 cjb (I mean, we don't have a process for comparing this request against any others we might get.)
12:19 bernie cjb: oh
12:19 SeanDaly thanks everyone
12:19 bernie cjb: I frankly though we had more non-encumbered money
12:19 walterbender I think the #actions speak for themselves...
12:20 bernie btw, maybe next week we should discuss the topic of fundrising
12:20 walterbender next week, more TM, goals, and perhaps a discussion of some of dfarning's questions.
12:20 mchua bernie: add to agenda queue :)
12:20 cjb bernie: It looked like about $5000 to my reading, $25k - $20k for the pilot, and Walter said $7k at one point I think.
12:20 SeanDaly bernie: I have been mulling over a plan for that
12:20 mchua walterbender: and we're all supposed to come with goals drafts to compare?
12:20 bernie SeanDaly: great!
12:20 walterbender mchua:  or comments on the goals I drafted
12:21 mchua okeydokey.
12:21 walterbender cjb: the 7K figure is about right... but we may ask the Gould project for infrastructure help...
12:21 mchua thinks we're getting some good momentum going here
12:21 SeanDaly wish me luck for Wednesday's presentation
12:21 walterbender SeanDaly: you'll do great...
12:21 SeanDaly Foundations and CSR execs from France's top corporations
12:22 with OLPC France
12:22 association
12:22 bernie dogi: in case we're stuck with no RIT hosting and no new machines, can we rely on treehouse/housetree to cope with the extra load?
12:22 walterbender SeanDaly: shout if you need any copy-edit help :)
12:22 mchua has to pop out now - thanks for a good meeting, folks.
12:22 walterbender #endmeeting

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