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#sugar-meeting, 2009-12-01

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Time Nick Message
10:03 SeanDaly first off JT4sugar i wanted to tell you - still awaiting feedback from OLPC re Peru press release
10:03 Walter said he would ping them in parallel but no news
10:03 JT4sugar SeanDaly, OK-When you get chance can you come up with some times to set up skype call with Tripti at MIT MarketLab
10:04 SeanDaly Ah yes thanks for reminding me
10:04 sdziallas is around
10:04 SeanDaly things have been hectic with a family situation
10:04 greets sdziallas
10:04 tomeu hi all!
10:04 SeanDaly hi tomeu!
10:04 sdziallas waes
10:04 s/waes/waves
10:04 walterbender is here
10:05 SeanDaly hi walterbender!
10:05 OK I'm really excited about the Blueberry launch
10:05 walterbender is too :)
10:05 SeanDaly even though the PR work still needs to be done :-)
10:06 sdziallas and the release wrangling ;)
10:06 SeanDaly before I write a draft i wanted to hash out the PR objectives
10:06 sdziallas: are you happy with eBooks we have?
10:06 walterbender is there a current list somewhere?
10:07 SeanDaly walterbender: was on my to-do list to wikify it, but got sidetracked this past we :-(
10:07 sdziallas SeanDaly: well, the licensing stuff is there, but apart from that, yes.
10:08 SeanDaly sdziallas: my position is, if in doubt we need to leave it out
10:08 sdziallas SeanDaly: +1
10:08 SeanDaly we're not trying to be exhaustive, just show a few books, demonstrate Sugar's validity as an ereader
10:08 sdziallas SeanDaly: apart from that, I think I'm all good - I'll include them and get you a list of what we've in after the meeting.
10:08 walterbender It is important we get someone to review this carefully...
10:08 sdziallas walterbender: the licensing or the ebooks?
10:09 SeanDaly walterbender: I guess you mean licensing
10:09 walterbender making sure everything we include is free
10:09 libre
10:09 sdziallas walterbender: I've gone through the books Sean provided me with.
10:10 SeanDaly walterbender: I had gotten a long list of suggestions from Lionel at olpc france, unfortunately most not usable due to copyright issues
10:10 sdziallas walterbender: and we both agreed to include only stuff that is either under an appropriate CC license, in the public domain, or we've some kind of permission
10:10 walterbender: and I'd strongly prefer if each book shipped some kind of licensing information
10:11 walterbender: because of our sharing features, it might be easy to get into trouble otherwise.
10:11 (most of them do, though)
10:11 walterbender sdziallas: I think we are all in agreement. My point is that we should have a third set of eyes double-check.
10:11 sdziallas walterbender: sure thing!
10:11 SeanDaly sdziallas: I had considered adding source licensing info to epub metadata
10:11 sdziallas SeanDaly: that'd be interesting
10:12 SeanDaly but ran out of time. I had the devil of a time installing calibre in F11, a zillion dependencies
10:12 walterbender should get the CC license tool feature for the Journal into 0.88
10:12 sdziallas walterbender: +1
10:12 SeanDaly: oh? :/
10:12 SeanDaly concretely, what I have in mind is we put up a wiki page by the 8th
10:13 sdziallas SeanDaly: btw, I'm not sure how to proceed with the arabic (I guess) .djvu books.
10:13 SeanDaly sdziallas: yes calibre in F12 aparently though
10:13 sdziallas shuts up and lets Sean talk
10:13 SeanDaly sdziallas: convert djvu-> other I have a learning curve
10:13 sdziallas hehe ;) I dunno how to do that, either.
10:14 SeanDaly on the wiki page: list of links to children's ebook sites; and on that page we add copyright disclaimer info
10:15 maybe need to do djvu -> other -> epub
10:15 ok back to objectives:
10:16 * Sugar as an agent to bridge digital divide
10:16 * multilanguage, support for languages other than English
10:16 * importance of open access, open learning
10:17 * ebooks should not just be for well-to-do
10:17 walterbender SeanDaly: I think we should include some English books too :)
10:17 sdziallas walterbender: we've gotten a bunch :) quite some cool stuff
10:17 SeanDaly walterbender: of course, sdziallas started off with four titles from epubbooks.com
10:17 walterbender SeanDaly: (a) because we want kids to learn English and (b) because some of our audience speaks English
10:17 SeanDaly which I called the "greatest hits"
10:17 sdziallas grins
10:18 walterbender: btw: http://trailblazing.royalsociety.org/
10:18 SeanDaly sdziallas: there was Gulliver's Travels, and Alice ?
10:18 sdziallas SeanDaly: yup, and more - wait
10:18 * A Christmas Carol
10:18 * Alice in Wonderland
10:18 * Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz
10:19 * Gulliver's Travels
10:19 * The Secret Garden
10:19 (those are the illustrated ones from epubbooks.com)
10:19 then we get so far:
10:19 * Les Voyages Extraordinaires (de Jules Verne)
10:19 SeanDaly I was suprised that there are not so many illustrated ebooks
10:19 sdziallas * Max & Moritz (German)
10:20 walterbender aesop?
10:20 sdziallas SeanDaly: yes, me too... epubbooks seemed to have quite a high rate, but gutenberg seemed worse to me
10:20 SeanDaly: actually... these librodot.com books make me think, too. I can't find any license stuff on their web page
10:20 walterbender: mhm?
10:20 SeanDaly on teleread.org I saw very interesting observation: children's ebooks in many different form factors because of illustrations
10:21 JT4sugar sdziallas, Are any of those in multiple languages
10:21 tomeu sdziallas: Äsop :p
10:21 SeanDaly "A Christmas Carol" is perfect
10:22 sdziallas JT4sugar: nope. the ones from epubbooks are in english, and then I think we should add one for each other major language
10:22 SeanDaly: :)
10:22 SeanDaly sdziallas: if we find a decent one
10:23 sdziallas yeah...
10:23 SeanDaly sdziallas: re licenses, huge amount of free-to-read online stuff in HTML or Flash has no license info
10:23 sdziallas tomeu: well, we could use something in Spanish
10:24 walterbender, tomeu: now I get it, looking for something on gutenberg! :)
10:24 tomeu SeanDaly: and there isn't anything?
10:24 SeanDaly sdziallas: wasn't there a Spanish one in the pile i forwarded to you?
10:24 tomeu we could ask iris fernandez
10:24 sdziallas SeanDaly: yes, but we're... actually distributing it and encouraging even distribution through sugar, license info is important.
10:25 SeanDaly: yes, but librodot.com doesn't say *anything* about licensing
10:25 SeanDaly: just "free" - and free doesn't need to mean free to distribute, does it?
10:25 SeanDaly sdziallas: I 100% agree licensing needs to be clear
10:25 sdziallas is no lawyer and is happy about that :)
10:26 SeanDaly yes, just says "Librodot.com is a FREE Spanish-language library."
10:26 sdziallas SeanDaly: I'm very happy with all the CreativeCommons licensed stuff, it makes things a lot easier for us.
10:26 SeanDaly: that's what I was wondering about, too.
10:27 SeanDaly our problem is we have run out of time to obtain permission for say the Sinhala ebooks I found
10:27 sdziallas walterbender: do you want aesop in? there's some version with pictures on gutenberg.
10:27 nods... it's sad. but it helps us for the next cycle, I'd say.
10:28 SeanDaly aesop classic! I had found a French one
10:29 sdziallas SeanDaly: whoa, cool :)
10:29 walterbender sdziallas: If it is available, let's add it.
10:29 SeanDaly illustrated too, but like 1890 illustrations :D
10:30 OK in terms of objectives... i want to continue to position SoaS as a testing version
10:30 walterbender we can encourage the kids to make their own illustrations :)
10:30 SeanDaly walterbender: i had hoped to include a classroom-made book like my son did last June, ran out of bandwidth
10:31 would be good if we could mention pilots - isn't erikos doing one in Berlin, and mtd in London?
10:31 sdziallas walterbender: is there anything generally on sugar that we might want to include?
10:31 JT4sugar SeanDaly, Can we make sure to have a PDF in the Journal with  list of children book sites/links-maybe with a few screenshots on how to access them with activities
10:31 sdziallas SeanDaly: yes: mtd / pbrobinson are rocking london, and erikos obviously in Berlin.
10:31 JT4sugar: we can, but I'd need to get such a file ASAP.
10:32 SeanDaly JT4sugar: yes we had discussed that but Sebastian needing to build image asap!
10:32 JT4sugar Understand
10:32 SeanDaly can anyone make that PDF? I'm afraid I can't today :-(
10:32 sdziallas JT4sugar, SeanDaly: we *could* take the layout I did for the marketing stuff, throw some content in there and upload it somewhere.
10:33 SeanDaly I'm tempted to say: since we plan on starting a live wiki page with that info,
10:33 walterbender sdziallas: check out my new game, Visual Match... you may want to include it :)
10:34 SeanDaly could we just include a link to that wiki page? on Browse offline default homepage?
10:34 sdziallas walterbender: sure thing! :) I think I saw it on a.sl.o...
10:35 SeanDaly my wiki skills not up to snuff but I could create a page tonight I think
10:35 sdziallas SeanDaly: I'm already hacking the default page, so we probably could, but we need to know the location of that page then.
10:35 walterbender is available for copy-editing and wiki page tuning
10:35 sdziallas SeanDaly: the point is - I guess - that we can alter all wiki content after I build the master image. but I wouldn't want to respin the image, unless there's a very good reason
10:36 SeanDaly sdziallas: yes I perfectly understand; With link-to-wiki, we can be just-in-time and avoid respinning image
10:37 sdziallas walterbender: we could of course start some gobby session ;)
10:37 SeanDaly I don't think I've ever 'created' a wiki page, not sure how to do it :-(
10:37 sdziallas SeanDaly: just enter it's location as url and it'll tell you that this page hasn't been created yet
10:37 walterbender SeanDaly: just type the name of the page you want to create...
10:37 sdziallas SeanDaly: ...at which point you can just "edit" the non-existing page and create it
10:37 walterbender knows how to describe the same thing with less words :)
10:38 SeanDaly sdziallas: ok but I wouldn't put that in marketing, would I?
10:38 maybe SoaS?
10:38 sdziallas SeanDaly: makes sense.
10:38 SeanDaly: well, we can relocate wiki pages at any point while keeping a redirect
10:39 SeanDaly sdziallas: oh yes - magic
10:39 sdziallas wonders if he'll be able to hack the browse page, though. will need to look.
10:40 SeanDaly http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/S[…]on_a_Stick/ebooks
10:41 I will work on that tonight
10:41 ok another question: ereader Activities
10:41 JT4sugar already a blank http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/ebooks
10:41 SeanDaly JT4sugar: I just created that 30 sec ago ;-)
10:42 JT4sugar Gotcha
10:42 SeanDaly I'm saying I will work on that tonight :-)
10:43 re rbook readers: are we clear which versions go into Blueberry? i saw a comment from Jim Simmons that latest Read not finding Gutenberg ebooks as well?
10:43 sdziallas SeanDaly: that was about Get Books - we're going to ship Get Internet Archive Books, I think.
10:44 SeanDaly: Get Books isn't yet on a.sl.o (will be soon, though, from what I've been told)
10:44 SeanDaly: it has some more features, but is more buggy at the moment, so we're going the safe route.
10:44 SeanDaly sdziallas: ok I see, now that I'm looking at Jim's mail again
10:44 safe route better!
10:44 sdziallas :)
10:45 SeanDaly so for PR i want to mention Get Internet Archive Books, read, and Read Etexts?
10:45 sdziallas yes!
10:45 SeanDaly Read ETexts has exciting text-to-speech function
10:46 I suppose you saw that Intel's dedicated eReader unit with text-to-speech at $1000
10:46 walterbender SeanDaly: we need to gather some beauty shots for the release (and my talk)
10:46 SeanDaly walterbender: yes, and quick
10:46 several ways to go
10:47 I have two alternative beauty shots of the sticks, one in a ring
10:47 but existing shot so good, we might want to reuse
10:48 walterbender SeanDaly: no issue re color schemes?
10:48 otherwise I think it is great.
10:48 SeanDaly if we could bluberryize this: http://www.ereleases.com/pr/su[…]k-classroom-22146
10:48 walterbender SeanDaly: I'll use a blueberry theme in my talk.
10:49 SeanDaly with Gary, we had carefully included blueberry and green and purple in that beauty shot in case of reuse
10:49 sdziallas walterbender: w00t! :)
10:49 SeanDaly gary could help us recolor the logo
10:49 direct link: http://www.sugarlabs.org/press[…]ck-Strawberry.png
10:50 I also have beauty shots of netbooks and XO-1, screens would need to be photoshopped in
10:51 sdziallas SeanDaly: if there was a .svg file, I could do it, like I did for the .pdfs.
10:51 SeanDaly and finally, a shot I took in Bolzano of XO-1 flanked with Dell 2100 and Gen2 Classmate, all with Home View
10:51 sdziallas: ok let's ask Gary after the meeting
10:52 what I like with SoaS beauty shot is, very strong branding of Sugar
10:52 in fact my idea is that we take up epubbooks offer to do a blog post, and
10:52 maybe post elsewhere too (have pinged teleread), and
10:53 post alternate photo with blog post
10:53 hey just heard from teleread - they agreed to guest post!!
10:54 sdziallas SeanDaly: whoa, nice! :)
10:54 SeanDaly would be great if we had epubbooks too - sdziallas you have a contact?
10:55 sdziallas SeanDaly: yes, I can put you in touch with him (introducing you two is fine?)
10:55 SeanDaly yes please
10:55 JT4sugar Beauty shot of netbook with Soas-Blueberry with free Illustrated childrens book on screen would be nice
10:56 SeanDaly I will show you thumbnails of unphotoshopped netbook beauty shots
10:56 they were done by my friend Philippe Cantinau in July
10:57 but we need somebody to photoshop/Gimp a screenshot in (and of course somebody to do a screenshot)
10:57 if there was an illustration in A Christmas Carol, we'd be right-on
10:57 sdziallas SeanDaly: there's :)
10:57 SeanDaly need to look at that
10:58 sdziallas SeanDaly: http://www.epubbooks.com/book/1/a-christmas-carol
10:59 SeanDaly fabulous!
10:59 sdziallas SeanDaly: actually, would you mind if I watched out for some other popular ebooks? www.feedbooks.com seems to have nicely licensed books partly with pictures in .epub in French & Spanish.
10:59 SeanDaly sdziallas: of course not!
10:59 sdziallas :)
11:00 SeanDaly our idea was to avoid overstuffing the Journal, but
11:00 several titles in a language better than only one or two
11:01 sdziallas SeanDaly: yes... I'll watch out to make sure we don't get a too cluttered journal.
11:01 SeanDaly ok I'd like to say something about news item reporting
11:01 you all may remember how I upset Jonas last June by polluting IAEP list with our wide coverage
11:01 walterbender SeanDaly: I arrive in Paris Sunday morning... Will you have any time between then and Tuesday morning?
11:02 SeanDaly this time I propose to report to marketing list except for major media e.g. BBC
11:02 walterbender: yes certainly :-)
11:02 on the Fedora marketing list mel I think had a great idea: tag news items with [in the news]
11:03 sdziallas nods :)
11:03 SeanDaly actually maybe I should report to SoaS list too?
11:03 and of course I don't have any monopoly on news monitoring, Ii just have a bunch of alerts set up :D :D
11:04 sdziallas grins
11:04 SeanDaly perhaps [SoaS in the news] ?
11:04 sdziallas sounds good to me!
11:04 SeanDaly since news items will be related to media launch
11:05 JT4sugar SeanDaly, Can you bundle into three or four posts per day
11:05 SeanDaly I should add that the possibility exists we will not have the coverage we had with Strawberry...
11:05 sdziallas SeanDaly: I just sent the intro to Mike Cook (from epubbooks.com)
11:06 SeanDaly JT4sugar: sure, but if we are lucky enough to get BBC again that will merit a standalone post :D
11:06 JT4sugar SeanDaly, Idea-Can you ping Mike Lee to take the new Beauty Shot of Netbook/blueberry/Illustarted ebook on screen
11:07 SeanDaly JT4sugar - as I say I have great netbook beauty shots, just need 1) screenshot and 2) somebody to photoshop it in
11:07 satellit SeabDaly: http://distrowatch.com/ announce it here also...
11:08 walterbender SeanDaly: I could try the WSJ again... although Mossberg didn't respond last time.
11:08 sdziallas walterbender: is "Strictly for personal use, do not use this file for commercial purposes." a blocker for us?
11:09 SeanDaly Hi satellit do we have a contact for them?
11:09 cjb sdziallas: yeah, usually
11:09 sdziallas: it's not DFSG or OSI approved
11:09 SeanDaly since when are we commercial ? :D
11:09 satellit also: http://www.nybooks.com/ article on google e-books
11:09 sdziallas cjb: well, but that affects also the NC clause in CC then, no?
11:10 walterbender sdziallas, SeanDaly we should confirm with SFLA before using those materials.
11:10 cjb sdziallas: indeed
11:10 sdziallas: CC-BY-NC is also not DFSG/OSI free
11:10 sdziallas walterbender: that would kick out anything from epubbooks.com, too.
11:11 cjb: that's the impression I had gotten from Fedora's policies, too. yup.
11:11 cjb sdziallas: but if this is just for a screenshot?
11:11 hm, I guess it could still be bad
11:11 sdziallas cjb: screenshot?
11:12 not getting those books in would basically require us to remove 70% of the content.
11:12 SeanDaly DFSG/OSI ? The Ten Suggestions ? what we need is legal advice, Karen should do it, the question is can she quickly
11:12 sdziallas walterbender: I guess you're going to tell me that the SFLA will take some time, right?
11:13 cjb SeanDaly: yes, we should have guidelines on what content licenses we're willing to accept, just like we have guidelines on which software licenses we're willing to accept.
11:13 sdziallas to be more clear: we could only use a few - crappy-ish - books from project gutenberg.
11:13 cjb maybe should add that to SLOBS agenda :)
11:14 SeanDaly cjb: yes, guidelines sure, but OSI has no legal standing, just an industry group
11:14 cjb SeanDaly: correct.
11:14 sdziallas cjb: I won't be able to be around for the SLOBs meeting (flying to Toronto at that time) and we're launching Tuesday afterwards (not saying that having guidelines would be bad, just that it puts me in a bad situation).
11:15 cjb sdziallas: ah, so it's in a rush, ok
11:15 sdziallas s/it/this
11:15 SeanDaly yes we need that handful of books in there
11:15 we've already excluded edge cases
11:15 cjb in the release?
11:15 if they don't allow commercial use, I really don't see that working :/
11:15 SeanDaly e.g. marked "free" without details
11:15 cjb I mean, legally
11:16 sdziallas cjb: I've nuked three proposed e-books because they didn't contain any license info at all.
11:16 cjb: let me get you an example.
11:16 SeanDaly cjb: we're not commercial. we don't sell anything
11:16 sdziallas cjb: "This EPUB eBook is released under a Creative Commons (BY-NC-ND/3.0) Licence. (http://creativecommons.org/lic[…]es/by-nc-nd/3.0/)
11:16 Source text and images are in the Public Domain."
11:17 cjb: additionally, the author gave us permission to ship stuff - but this doesn't make the license info go away.
11:17 cjb sdziallas: I see
11:17 sdziallas (that's for the epubbooks.com case)
11:17 cjb we definitely wouldn't accept an NC clause in software, e.g. on ASLO
11:17 sdziallas grumbles about his own crappy release planning.
11:17 cjb: right.
11:17 cjb I don't have a good idea whether we should treat content differently
11:18 SeanDaly I excluded nearly all the French content from the Canadian repository for licensing reasons
11:18 cjb but my intuition is that it would be really complicated if we did.  "you can redistribute sugar, including for commercial use.. oh but you have to remove all the content we added first"
11:18 sdziallas cjb: it's only for SoaS.
11:18 so: s/sugar/SoaS
11:19 SeanDaly cjb: SoaS is a distribution
11:19 satellit sdziallas: is a link to the book also illegal?
11:19 sdziallas satellit: I wouldn't think so.
11:19 cjb SeanDaly: ah, so we could make SoaS redistribution more restrictive than Sugar distribution
11:19 sdziallas satellit: note that it's not a matter of being illegal at the moment, but a question of what we wanted to do.
11:19 satellit k
11:20 sdziallas cjb: I do certainly agree that Sugar should be available for all kinds of use.
11:20 satellit a page ( pages)of recommended book links? in Journal...
11:21 sdziallas cjb: well... you might be right. I'd get into trouble with my own trademark proposal:
11:21 SeanDaly cjb: it's a bootable liveUSB distro... I'm not sure where the more restrictive comes in... Sugar code always available
11:21 sdziallas cjb: "you may sell SoaS in case you don't alter it... uh wait, you may not, since the content we're shipping doesn't allow you"
11:22 cjb SeanDaly: what sdziallas said.
11:22 sdziallas cjb: I'm digging my own hole.
11:22 SeanDaly again, these are questions for Karen, the question is how quickly she can advise
11:23 this came up a while back when we were discussing hundreds of edooks
11:23 cjb SeanDaly: I agree you should get in touch
11:23 sdziallas notes that it's a bit sad that we've included these e-books for at least one snapshot and nobody cared.
11:23 SeanDaly s/edooks/ebooks
11:23 cjb SeanDaly: I don't think what sdziallas just said is legally controversial, though
11:23 walterbender SeanDaly: if we can summarize them all, I'll send them off to her.
11:23 sdziallas should have payed more attention.
11:23 cjb SeanDaly: people would be unable to sell SoaS if it included non-commercial only material.  that's what non-commercial means.
11:23 sdziallas so we're going to slip again?
11:24 cjb SeanDaly: so I think, in as far as we need to work out how we feel about that, it's a question for us even more than for Karen in that case
11:24 SeanDaly and we thought of ebook bundles being separate downloads
11:24 sdziallas maybe we should get another decision panel? :p
11:24 cjb :)
11:24 sdziallas (*gallows humor*)
11:24 SeanDaly cjb: in that case we are in real trouble, we are shipping in 7 days
11:25 sdziallas what we *could* do is using books from project gutenberg only, but that would significantly lower the value of our sample content.
11:25 JT4sugar Can we contact someone at epubbooks.com about distribution question
11:25 cjb SeanDaly: you could ask for an emergency SLOBS meeting, if you think there's something SLOBS can do
11:26 tomeu maybe we need to need to fix the content industry, then come back to the software one
11:26 sdziallas grins
11:26 SeanDaly guffaws
11:26 cjb hee hee
11:26 mako's actually been arguing with Lawrence Lessig a lot about this
11:26 walterbender let me see if we can get a quick read from Karen. but getting the right questions will expedite the discussion
11:26 cjb walterbender: I think the questions are:
11:27 (1)  Can we ship content on a non-commercial-only license in our Sugar on a Stick image, legally?
11:27 (2)  Does the conservancy have a problem with this?
11:27 sdziallas cjb: keep in mind that there's *no* SoaS trademark guideline, yet - so what I was saying earlier was just kicking out my own proposal.
11:28 cjb (3)  If we do this, is it correct that people could not redistribute Sugar on a Stick commercially?
11:28 does that sound like it addresses all the questions?
11:28 walterbender cjb: thanks. I'll post these to her now.
11:28 cjb walterbender: cool.  please CC slobs or iaep.
11:29 SeanDaly I will need to sign off soon but there is another question I have in mind
11:29 sugaronastick.com is still up despite my requests to Caroline
11:29 erikos oups, bad moment to join....
11:30 cjb SeanDaly: wow, that's surprising
11:30 SeanDaly if any journalists/bloggers publish that link, it's guaranteed confusion
11:30 sdziallas cjb: really? ;)
11:30 SeanDaly greets erikos :D
11:30 cjb SeanDaly: oh, I see it redirects to schoolkey.net now
11:30 tomeu wow, progress
11:31 sdziallas cjb: it doesn't?
11:31 cjb: it does, actually.
11:31 SeanDaly well, that's different from this morning
11:31 sdziallas cjb: it just shows the same content.
11:31 SeanDaly the problem is, it should redirect to www.sugarlabs.org
11:31 dfarning__ SeanDaly, it will, by the time of the release
11:32 tomeu oh, the same confusing content
11:32 SeanDaly dfarning__: really? will be great news
11:32 I've been worrying about that for weeks
11:34 I was going to suggest that we add phrase in online PR: "sugaronastick.com not official Sugar Labs site"
11:34 erikos SeanDaly: I guess your request included the change of the content (pictures etc) right?
11:34 sdziallas SeanDaly: *SoaS team hat on* that sounds very very reasonable to me, in case nothing changes.
11:36 SeanDaly erikos: no, since I think the site should disappear. It can't be anything but confusing with Sugar trademark across the top of it and Sugar trademark on the bottom of it
11:36 erikos SeanDaly: right, that is what I meant ;p good then
11:39 SeanDaly however I don't feel it's a good idea to place text like that in the PR that goes out on PR Newswire
11:40 sdziallas to repeat my question: everybody aware and in agreement that we'll need to slip again?
11:40 walterbender SeanDaly: I would recommend we avoid any mention of the site
11:40 SeanDaly might create more problem than solution
11:41 perhaps take it as it comes... hold off on that text online if no mentions, add it in with journalist/blogger briefing if a mention?
11:41 the risk is the damage that can be done in the meantime
11:42 sdziallas: by slip you mean new golden master?
11:43 sdziallas SeanDaly: well, if dfarning__ is right and it's down by the time we launch (or *hopefully* launch), it would be bad to have a note in the press release which goes out on... Thursday, right?
11:43 SeanDaly we have a hard deadline of the morning of Dec. 8th Paris time
11:43 haven't decided yet if PR morning of Dec. 7th or Dec.8th
11:44 if Dec. 8th, will only go live midmorning or noon Paris time
11:44 and Dec. 7th additional $100 unless we submit by tomorrow afternoon EST... iffy
11:44 dfarning__ Let me talk to Solution Grove again today.  Since leaving slobs i no longer talk for Sugar Labs interests.
11:45 Instead I focus on how businesses can build on top of sugar.
11:45 SeanDaly again, my concept is no such text in the PR that goes out on the wires, but only in the online version on our press page
11:45 sdziallas SeanDaly: by slip I mean pushing the gold master back, yes.
11:46 SeanDaly: because that's the only possibility we've, I guess.
11:46 dfarning__ The current situation is not beneficial for anyone.
11:46 SeanDaly sdziallas: walterbender has mailed Karen at SFC
11:46 dfarning__ So we will change it.
11:47 SeanDaly dumb question: difficult to organize bundle of eBooks from a link on offline default Browse homepage?
11:47 on say the new page I will work on with links to eBook repositories?
11:47 sdziallas SeanDaly: probably not too difficult, but I'm not an HTML hacker, so somebody would need to do this.
11:48 SeanDaly: we *could* hack around the default start page, but... well, it's still something that'd need to be done.
11:48 SeanDaly sdziallas: yes I understand, I'm trying to identify options which 1) sidestep legal complications 2) minimize slip
11:49 sdziallas SeanDaly: yeah...
11:49 erikos SeanDaly: what exactly do you want to place on the Browse page? a link?
11:49 SeanDaly erikos: there are issues with licensing which complicate direct inclusion of kids eBooks in SoaS
11:49 walterbender SeanDaly: a link into the Journal or a link into the file system?
11:50 SeanDaly walterbender: I was thinking a link to the new ebooks wiki page, the same page which will explain how to download & read an eBook in Sugar
11:50 the page I'll be working on tonight :-)
11:50 walterbender SeanDaly: but an offline version?
11:51 sdziallas people without internet access won't be able to read stuff, but it'd be better than nothing.
11:51 SeanDaly walterbender: our concern is if we include eBooks and karen can't advise us very quickly, we are in difficult release timetable situation
11:52 sdziallas I *could* do it tomorrow. (building the final image)
11:52 but the more we wait, the worse it's getting.
11:52 I dunno until when we can get advised wrt to what we can include and what not.
11:52 but I'm going to take a plane on friday and I'll have the final image in my bag.
11:52 SeanDaly it's clear we want to err on the side of caution
11:53 another possibly dumb suggestion: coould we bundle up the ebooks for ASLO?
11:53 dfarning__ I am concerned about the late push to add features.  There will be another release in 6 months to add these things
11:54 SeanDaly "Blueberry additional content"
11:54 dfarning__: we've been discussing the eBook orientation of this launch since Sept.
11:55 but SoaS, trademark status has been in progress :-(
11:56 cjb SeanDaly: it's not a bad suggestion, but I think on Friday we're likely to ratify that we only want free/open stuff on ASLO (it's already been added to the agenda because of the Skype activity stuff).
11:56 SeanDaly in any case we need to show parents & teachers how to find & add eBooks
11:56 cjb yeah
11:56 SeanDaly on the new wiki page
11:58 sdziallas needs to run for a quarter of an hour and wonders whether there's anything else he should be aware of
11:58 SeanDaly I need sign off too
11:58 sdziallas walterbender: could you please e-mail me immediately when you know more on the licensing stuff?
11:58 we're one hour over time... :/
11:59 SeanDaly since we had discussed linking to the wiki page list of links, I think adjusting default offline Brows homepage will be our best bet...
11:59 sdziallas: yes, that's what a launch is :-)
11:59 sdziallas SeanDaly: I think we should do so unless we've a solution by tomorrow.
12:00 and I might need to raise the static SL.org page on-list again... :/
12:00 SeanDaly sdziallas: yes, I agree
12:00 sdziallas: Christian agreed and is standing by
12:00 sdziallas so let's wait until tomorrow and discuss the licensing thing then again?
12:00 SeanDaly: ah, okay.
12:01 SeanDaly I promised again (& failed again) to respond re common navbar, got sidetracked this weekend with family problem
12:01 sdziallas SeanDaly: as I said... family comes *first*. :)
12:02 is over and out.
12:02 SeanDaly ok signing off now...
12:02 going once...
12:03 going twice....
12:03 walterbender sdziallas: I'll call Karen today as well... hopefully get a quick turn-around on this one.
12:04 SeanDaly thanks walterbender
12:04 #endmeeting

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