| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 10:03 | SeanDaly | first off JT4sugar i wanted to tell you - still awaiting feedback from OLPC re Peru press release |
| 10:03 | Walter said he would ping them in parallel but no news | |
| 10:03 | JT4sugar | SeanDaly, OK-When you get chance can you come up with some times to set up skype call with Tripti at MIT MarketLab |
| 10:04 | SeanDaly | Ah yes thanks for reminding me |
| 10:04 | sdziallas | is around |
| 10:04 | SeanDaly | things have been hectic with a family situation |
| 10:04 | greets sdziallas | |
| 10:04 | tomeu | hi all! |
| 10:04 | SeanDaly | hi tomeu! |
| 10:04 | sdziallas | waes |
| 10:04 | s/waes/waves | |
| 10:04 | walterbender | is here |
| 10:05 | SeanDaly | hi walterbender! |
| 10:05 | OK I'm really excited about the Blueberry launch | |
| 10:05 | walterbender | is too :) |
| 10:05 | SeanDaly | even though the PR work still needs to be done :-) |
| 10:06 | sdziallas | and the release wrangling ;) |
| 10:06 | SeanDaly | before I write a draft i wanted to hash out the PR objectives |
| 10:06 | sdziallas: are you happy with eBooks we have? | |
| 10:06 | walterbender | is there a current list somewhere? |
| 10:07 | SeanDaly | walterbender: was on my to-do list to wikify it, but got sidetracked this past we :-( |
| 10:07 | sdziallas | SeanDaly: well, the licensing stuff is there, but apart from that, yes. |
| 10:08 | SeanDaly | sdziallas: my position is, if in doubt we need to leave it out |
| 10:08 | sdziallas | SeanDaly: +1 |
| 10:08 | SeanDaly | we're not trying to be exhaustive, just show a few books, demonstrate Sugar's validity as an ereader |
| 10:08 | sdziallas | SeanDaly: apart from that, I think I'm all good - I'll include them and get you a list of what we've in after the meeting. |
| 10:08 | walterbender | It is important we get someone to review this carefully... |
| 10:08 | sdziallas | walterbender: the licensing or the ebooks? |
| 10:09 | SeanDaly | walterbender: I guess you mean licensing |
| 10:09 | walterbender | making sure everything we include is free |
| 10:09 | libre | |
| 10:09 | sdziallas | walterbender: I've gone through the books Sean provided me with. |
| 10:10 | SeanDaly | walterbender: I had gotten a long list of suggestions from Lionel at olpc france, unfortunately most not usable due to copyright issues |
| 10:10 | sdziallas | walterbender: and we both agreed to include only stuff that is either under an appropriate CC license, in the public domain, or we've some kind of permission |
| 10:10 | walterbender: and I'd strongly prefer if each book shipped some kind of licensing information | |
| 10:11 | walterbender: because of our sharing features, it might be easy to get into trouble otherwise. | |
| 10:11 | (most of them do, though) | |
| 10:11 | walterbender | sdziallas: I think we are all in agreement. My point is that we should have a third set of eyes double-check. |
| 10:11 | sdziallas | walterbender: sure thing! |
| 10:11 | SeanDaly | sdziallas: I had considered adding source licensing info to epub metadata |
| 10:11 | sdziallas | SeanDaly: that'd be interesting |
| 10:12 | SeanDaly | but ran out of time. I had the devil of a time installing calibre in F11, a zillion dependencies |
| 10:12 | walterbender | should get the CC license tool feature for the Journal into 0.88 |
| 10:12 | sdziallas | walterbender: +1 |
| 10:12 | SeanDaly: oh? :/ | |
| 10:12 | SeanDaly | concretely, what I have in mind is we put up a wiki page by the 8th |
| 10:13 | sdziallas | SeanDaly: btw, I'm not sure how to proceed with the arabic (I guess) .djvu books. |
| 10:13 | SeanDaly | sdziallas: yes calibre in F12 aparently though |
| 10:13 | sdziallas | shuts up and lets Sean talk |
| 10:13 | SeanDaly | sdziallas: convert djvu-> other I have a learning curve |
| 10:13 | sdziallas | hehe ;) I dunno how to do that, either. |
| 10:14 | SeanDaly | on the wiki page: list of links to children's ebook sites; and on that page we add copyright disclaimer info |
| 10:15 | maybe need to do djvu -> other -> epub | |
| 10:15 | ok back to objectives: | |
| 10:16 | * Sugar as an agent to bridge digital divide | |
| 10:16 | * multilanguage, support for languages other than English | |
| 10:16 | * importance of open access, open learning | |
| 10:17 | * ebooks should not just be for well-to-do | |
| 10:17 | walterbender | SeanDaly: I think we should include some English books too :) |
| 10:17 | sdziallas | walterbender: we've gotten a bunch :) quite some cool stuff |
| 10:17 | SeanDaly | walterbender: of course, sdziallas started off with four titles from epubbooks.com |
| 10:17 | walterbender | SeanDaly: (a) because we want kids to learn English and (b) because some of our audience speaks English |
| 10:17 | SeanDaly | which I called the "greatest hits" |
| 10:17 | sdziallas | grins |
| 10:18 | walterbender: btw: http://trailblazing.royalsociety.org/ | |
| 10:18 | SeanDaly | sdziallas: there was Gulliver's Travels, and Alice ? |
| 10:18 | sdziallas | SeanDaly: yup, and more - wait |
| 10:18 | * A Christmas Carol | |
| 10:18 | * Alice in Wonderland | |
| 10:18 | * Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz | |
| 10:19 | * Gulliver's Travels | |
| 10:19 | * The Secret Garden | |
| 10:19 | (those are the illustrated ones from epubbooks.com) | |
| 10:19 | then we get so far: | |
| 10:19 | * Les Voyages Extraordinaires (de Jules Verne) | |
| 10:19 | SeanDaly | I was suprised that there are not so many illustrated ebooks |
| 10:19 | sdziallas | * Max & Moritz (German) |
| 10:20 | walterbender | aesop? |
| 10:20 | sdziallas | SeanDaly: yes, me too... epubbooks seemed to have quite a high rate, but gutenberg seemed worse to me |
| 10:20 | SeanDaly: actually... these librodot.com books make me think, too. I can't find any license stuff on their web page | |
| 10:20 | walterbender: mhm? | |
| 10:20 | SeanDaly | on teleread.org I saw very interesting observation: children's ebooks in many different form factors because of illustrations |
| 10:21 | JT4sugar | sdziallas, Are any of those in multiple languages |
| 10:21 | tomeu | sdziallas: Äsop :p |
| 10:21 | SeanDaly | "A Christmas Carol" is perfect |
| 10:22 | sdziallas | JT4sugar: nope. the ones from epubbooks are in english, and then I think we should add one for each other major language |
| 10:22 | SeanDaly: :) | |
| 10:22 | SeanDaly | sdziallas: if we find a decent one |
| 10:23 | sdziallas | yeah... |
| 10:23 | SeanDaly | sdziallas: re licenses, huge amount of free-to-read online stuff in HTML or Flash has no license info |
| 10:23 | sdziallas | tomeu: well, we could use something in Spanish |
| 10:24 | walterbender, tomeu: now I get it, looking for something on gutenberg! :) | |
| 10:24 | tomeu | SeanDaly: and there isn't anything? |
| 10:24 | SeanDaly | sdziallas: wasn't there a Spanish one in the pile i forwarded to you? |
| 10:24 | tomeu | we could ask iris fernandez |
| 10:24 | sdziallas | SeanDaly: yes, but we're... actually distributing it and encouraging even distribution through sugar, license info is important. |
| 10:25 | SeanDaly: yes, but librodot.com doesn't say *anything* about licensing | |
| 10:25 | SeanDaly: just "free" - and free doesn't need to mean free to distribute, does it? | |
| 10:25 | SeanDaly | sdziallas: I 100% agree licensing needs to be clear |
| 10:25 | sdziallas | is no lawyer and is happy about that :) |
| 10:26 | SeanDaly | yes, just says "Librodot.com is a FREE Spanish-language library." |
| 10:26 | sdziallas | SeanDaly: I'm very happy with all the CreativeCommons licensed stuff, it makes things a lot easier for us. |
| 10:26 | SeanDaly: that's what I was wondering about, too. | |
| 10:27 | SeanDaly | our problem is we have run out of time to obtain permission for say the Sinhala ebooks I found |
| 10:27 | sdziallas | walterbender: do you want aesop in? there's some version with pictures on gutenberg. |
| 10:27 | nods... it's sad. but it helps us for the next cycle, I'd say. | |
| 10:28 | SeanDaly | aesop classic! I had found a French one |
| 10:29 | sdziallas | SeanDaly: whoa, cool :) |
| 10:29 | walterbender | sdziallas: If it is available, let's add it. |
| 10:29 | SeanDaly | illustrated too, but like 1890 illustrations :D |
| 10:30 | OK in terms of objectives... i want to continue to position SoaS as a testing version | |
| 10:30 | walterbender | we can encourage the kids to make their own illustrations :) |
| 10:30 | SeanDaly | walterbender: i had hoped to include a classroom-made book like my son did last June, ran out of bandwidth |
| 10:31 | would be good if we could mention pilots - isn't erikos doing one in Berlin, and mtd in London? | |
| 10:31 | sdziallas | walterbender: is there anything generally on sugar that we might want to include? |
| 10:31 | JT4sugar | SeanDaly, Can we make sure to have a PDF in the Journal with list of children book sites/links-maybe with a few screenshots on how to access them with activities |
| 10:31 | sdziallas | SeanDaly: yes: mtd / pbrobinson are rocking london, and erikos obviously in Berlin. |
| 10:31 | JT4sugar: we can, but I'd need to get such a file ASAP. | |
| 10:32 | SeanDaly | JT4sugar: yes we had discussed that but Sebastian needing to build image asap! |
| 10:32 | JT4sugar | Understand |
| 10:32 | SeanDaly | can anyone make that PDF? I'm afraid I can't today :-( |
| 10:32 | sdziallas | JT4sugar, SeanDaly: we *could* take the layout I did for the marketing stuff, throw some content in there and upload it somewhere. |
| 10:33 | SeanDaly | I'm tempted to say: since we plan on starting a live wiki page with that info, |
| 10:33 | walterbender | sdziallas: check out my new game, Visual Match... you may want to include it :) |
| 10:34 | SeanDaly | could we just include a link to that wiki page? on Browse offline default homepage? |
| 10:34 | sdziallas | walterbender: sure thing! :) I think I saw it on a.sl.o... |
| 10:35 | SeanDaly | my wiki skills not up to snuff but I could create a page tonight I think |
| 10:35 | sdziallas | SeanDaly: I'm already hacking the default page, so we probably could, but we need to know the location of that page then. |
| 10:35 | walterbender | is available for copy-editing and wiki page tuning |
| 10:35 | sdziallas | SeanDaly: the point is - I guess - that we can alter all wiki content after I build the master image. but I wouldn't want to respin the image, unless there's a very good reason |
| 10:36 | SeanDaly | sdziallas: yes I perfectly understand; With link-to-wiki, we can be just-in-time and avoid respinning image |
| 10:37 | sdziallas | walterbender: we could of course start some gobby session ;) |
| 10:37 | SeanDaly | I don't think I've ever 'created' a wiki page, not sure how to do it :-( |
| 10:37 | sdziallas | SeanDaly: just enter it's location as url and it'll tell you that this page hasn't been created yet |
| 10:37 | walterbender | SeanDaly: just type the name of the page you want to create... |
| 10:37 | sdziallas | SeanDaly: ...at which point you can just "edit" the non-existing page and create it |
| 10:37 | walterbender knows how to describe the same thing with less words :) | |
| 10:38 | SeanDaly | sdziallas: ok but I wouldn't put that in marketing, would I? |
| 10:38 | maybe SoaS? | |
| 10:38 | sdziallas | SeanDaly: makes sense. |
| 10:38 | SeanDaly: well, we can relocate wiki pages at any point while keeping a redirect | |
| 10:39 | SeanDaly | sdziallas: oh yes - magic |
| 10:39 | sdziallas | wonders if he'll be able to hack the browse page, though. will need to look. |
| 10:40 | SeanDaly | http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/S[…]on_a_Stick/ebooks |
| 10:41 | I will work on that tonight | |
| 10:41 | ok another question: ereader Activities | |
| 10:41 | JT4sugar | already a blank http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/ebooks |
| 10:41 | SeanDaly | JT4sugar: I just created that 30 sec ago ;-) |
| 10:42 | JT4sugar | Gotcha |
| 10:42 | SeanDaly | I'm saying I will work on that tonight :-) |
| 10:43 | re rbook readers: are we clear which versions go into Blueberry? i saw a comment from Jim Simmons that latest Read not finding Gutenberg ebooks as well? | |
| 10:43 | sdziallas | SeanDaly: that was about Get Books - we're going to ship Get Internet Archive Books, I think. |
| 10:44 | SeanDaly: Get Books isn't yet on a.sl.o (will be soon, though, from what I've been told) | |
| 10:44 | SeanDaly: it has some more features, but is more buggy at the moment, so we're going the safe route. | |
| 10:44 | SeanDaly | sdziallas: ok I see, now that I'm looking at Jim's mail again |
| 10:44 | safe route better! | |
| 10:44 | sdziallas | :) |
| 10:45 | SeanDaly | so for PR i want to mention Get Internet Archive Books, read, and Read Etexts? |
| 10:45 | sdziallas | yes! |
| 10:45 | SeanDaly | Read ETexts has exciting text-to-speech function |
| 10:46 | I suppose you saw that Intel's dedicated eReader unit with text-to-speech at $1000 | |
| 10:46 | walterbender | SeanDaly: we need to gather some beauty shots for the release (and my talk) |
| 10:46 | SeanDaly | walterbender: yes, and quick |
| 10:46 | several ways to go | |
| 10:47 | I have two alternative beauty shots of the sticks, one in a ring | |
| 10:47 | but existing shot so good, we might want to reuse | |
| 10:48 | walterbender | SeanDaly: no issue re color schemes? |
| 10:48 | otherwise I think it is great. | |
| 10:48 | SeanDaly | if we could bluberryize this: http://www.ereleases.com/pr/su[…]k-classroom-22146 |
| 10:48 | walterbender | SeanDaly: I'll use a blueberry theme in my talk. |
| 10:49 | SeanDaly | with Gary, we had carefully included blueberry and green and purple in that beauty shot in case of reuse |
| 10:49 | sdziallas | walterbender: w00t! :) |
| 10:49 | SeanDaly | gary could help us recolor the logo |
| 10:49 | direct link: http://www.sugarlabs.org/press[…]ck-Strawberry.png | |
| 10:50 | I also have beauty shots of netbooks and XO-1, screens would need to be photoshopped in | |
| 10:51 | sdziallas | SeanDaly: if there was a .svg file, I could do it, like I did for the .pdfs. |
| 10:51 | SeanDaly | and finally, a shot I took in Bolzano of XO-1 flanked with Dell 2100 and Gen2 Classmate, all with Home View |
| 10:51 | sdziallas: ok let's ask Gary after the meeting | |
| 10:52 | what I like with SoaS beauty shot is, very strong branding of Sugar | |
| 10:52 | in fact my idea is that we take up epubbooks offer to do a blog post, and | |
| 10:52 | maybe post elsewhere too (have pinged teleread), and | |
| 10:53 | post alternate photo with blog post | |
| 10:53 | hey just heard from teleread - they agreed to guest post!! | |
| 10:54 | sdziallas | SeanDaly: whoa, nice! :) |
| 10:54 | SeanDaly | would be great if we had epubbooks too - sdziallas you have a contact? |
| 10:55 | sdziallas | SeanDaly: yes, I can put you in touch with him (introducing you two is fine?) |
| 10:55 | SeanDaly | yes please |
| 10:55 | JT4sugar | Beauty shot of netbook with Soas-Blueberry with free Illustrated childrens book on screen would be nice |
| 10:56 | SeanDaly | I will show you thumbnails of unphotoshopped netbook beauty shots |
| 10:56 | they were done by my friend Philippe Cantinau in July | |
| 10:57 | but we need somebody to photoshop/Gimp a screenshot in (and of course somebody to do a screenshot) | |
| 10:57 | if there was an illustration in A Christmas Carol, we'd be right-on | |
| 10:57 | sdziallas | SeanDaly: there's :) |
| 10:57 | SeanDaly | need to look at that |
| 10:58 | sdziallas | SeanDaly: http://www.epubbooks.com/book/1/a-christmas-carol |
| 10:59 | SeanDaly | fabulous! |
| 10:59 | sdziallas | SeanDaly: actually, would you mind if I watched out for some other popular ebooks? www.feedbooks.com seems to have nicely licensed books partly with pictures in .epub in French & Spanish. |
| 10:59 | SeanDaly | sdziallas: of course not! |
| 10:59 | sdziallas | :) |
| 11:00 | SeanDaly | our idea was to avoid overstuffing the Journal, but |
| 11:00 | several titles in a language better than only one or two | |
| 11:01 | sdziallas | SeanDaly: yes... I'll watch out to make sure we don't get a too cluttered journal. |
| 11:01 | SeanDaly | ok I'd like to say something about news item reporting |
| 11:01 | you all may remember how I upset Jonas last June by polluting IAEP list with our wide coverage | |
| 11:01 | walterbender | SeanDaly: I arrive in Paris Sunday morning... Will you have any time between then and Tuesday morning? |
| 11:02 | SeanDaly | this time I propose to report to marketing list except for major media e.g. BBC |
| 11:02 | walterbender: yes certainly :-) | |
| 11:02 | on the Fedora marketing list mel I think had a great idea: tag news items with [in the news] | |
| 11:03 | sdziallas | nods :) |
| 11:03 | SeanDaly | actually maybe I should report to SoaS list too? |
| 11:03 | and of course I don't have any monopoly on news monitoring, Ii just have a bunch of alerts set up :D :D | |
| 11:04 | sdziallas | grins |
| 11:04 | SeanDaly | perhaps [SoaS in the news] ? |
| 11:04 | sdziallas | sounds good to me! |
| 11:04 | SeanDaly | since news items will be related to media launch |
| 11:05 | JT4sugar | SeanDaly, Can you bundle into three or four posts per day |
| 11:05 | SeanDaly | I should add that the possibility exists we will not have the coverage we had with Strawberry... |
| 11:05 | sdziallas | SeanDaly: I just sent the intro to Mike Cook (from epubbooks.com) |
| 11:06 | SeanDaly | JT4sugar: sure, but if we are lucky enough to get BBC again that will merit a standalone post :D |
| 11:06 | JT4sugar | SeanDaly, Idea-Can you ping Mike Lee to take the new Beauty Shot of Netbook/blueberry/Illustarted ebook on screen |
| 11:07 | SeanDaly | JT4sugar - as I say I have great netbook beauty shots, just need 1) screenshot and 2) somebody to photoshop it in |
| 11:07 | satellit | SeabDaly: http://distrowatch.com/ announce it here also... |
| 11:08 | walterbender | SeanDaly: I could try the WSJ again... although Mossberg didn't respond last time. |
| 11:08 | sdziallas | walterbender: is "Strictly for personal use, do not use this file for commercial purposes." a blocker for us? |
| 11:09 | SeanDaly | Hi satellit do we have a contact for them? |
| 11:09 | cjb | sdziallas: yeah, usually |
| 11:09 | sdziallas: it's not DFSG or OSI approved | |
| 11:09 | SeanDaly | since when are we commercial ? :D |
| 11:09 | satellit | also: http://www.nybooks.com/ article on google e-books |
| 11:09 | sdziallas | cjb: well, but that affects also the NC clause in CC then, no? |
| 11:10 | walterbender | sdziallas, SeanDaly we should confirm with SFLA before using those materials. |
| 11:10 | cjb | sdziallas: indeed |
| 11:10 | sdziallas: CC-BY-NC is also not DFSG/OSI free | |
| 11:10 | sdziallas | walterbender: that would kick out anything from epubbooks.com, too. |
| 11:11 | cjb: that's the impression I had gotten from Fedora's policies, too. yup. | |
| 11:11 | cjb | sdziallas: but if this is just for a screenshot? |
| 11:11 | hm, I guess it could still be bad | |
| 11:11 | sdziallas | cjb: screenshot? |
| 11:12 | not getting those books in would basically require us to remove 70% of the content. | |
| 11:12 | SeanDaly | DFSG/OSI ? The Ten Suggestions ? what we need is legal advice, Karen should do it, the question is can she quickly |
| 11:12 | sdziallas | walterbender: I guess you're going to tell me that the SFLA will take some time, right? |
| 11:13 | cjb | SeanDaly: yes, we should have guidelines on what content licenses we're willing to accept, just like we have guidelines on which software licenses we're willing to accept. |
| 11:13 | sdziallas | to be more clear: we could only use a few - crappy-ish - books from project gutenberg. |
| 11:13 | cjb | maybe should add that to SLOBS agenda :) |
| 11:14 | SeanDaly | cjb: yes, guidelines sure, but OSI has no legal standing, just an industry group |
| 11:14 | cjb | SeanDaly: correct. |
| 11:14 | sdziallas | cjb: I won't be able to be around for the SLOBs meeting (flying to Toronto at that time) and we're launching Tuesday afterwards (not saying that having guidelines would be bad, just that it puts me in a bad situation). |
| 11:15 | cjb | sdziallas: ah, so it's in a rush, ok |
| 11:15 | sdziallas | s/it/this |
| 11:15 | SeanDaly | yes we need that handful of books in there |
| 11:15 | we've already excluded edge cases | |
| 11:15 | cjb | in the release? |
| 11:15 | if they don't allow commercial use, I really don't see that working :/ | |
| 11:15 | SeanDaly | e.g. marked "free" without details |
| 11:15 | cjb | I mean, legally |
| 11:16 | sdziallas | cjb: I've nuked three proposed e-books because they didn't contain any license info at all. |
| 11:16 | cjb: let me get you an example. | |
| 11:16 | SeanDaly | cjb: we're not commercial. we don't sell anything |
| 11:16 | sdziallas | cjb: "This EPUB eBook is released under a Creative Commons (BY-NC-ND/3.0) Licence. (http://creativecommons.org/lic[…]es/by-nc-nd/3.0/) |
| 11:16 | Source text and images are in the Public Domain." | |
| 11:17 | cjb: additionally, the author gave us permission to ship stuff - but this doesn't make the license info go away. | |
| 11:17 | cjb | sdziallas: I see |
| 11:17 | sdziallas | (that's for the epubbooks.com case) |
| 11:17 | cjb | we definitely wouldn't accept an NC clause in software, e.g. on ASLO |
| 11:17 | sdziallas | grumbles about his own crappy release planning. |
| 11:17 | cjb: right. | |
| 11:17 | cjb | I don't have a good idea whether we should treat content differently |
| 11:18 | SeanDaly | I excluded nearly all the French content from the Canadian repository for licensing reasons |
| 11:18 | cjb | but my intuition is that it would be really complicated if we did. "you can redistribute sugar, including for commercial use.. oh but you have to remove all the content we added first" |
| 11:18 | sdziallas | cjb: it's only for SoaS. |
| 11:18 | so: s/sugar/SoaS | |
| 11:19 | SeanDaly | cjb: SoaS is a distribution |
| 11:19 | satellit | sdziallas: is a link to the book also illegal? |
| 11:19 | sdziallas | satellit: I wouldn't think so. |
| 11:19 | cjb | SeanDaly: ah, so we could make SoaS redistribution more restrictive than Sugar distribution |
| 11:19 | sdziallas | satellit: note that it's not a matter of being illegal at the moment, but a question of what we wanted to do. |
| 11:19 | satellit | k |
| 11:20 | sdziallas | cjb: I do certainly agree that Sugar should be available for all kinds of use. |
| 11:20 | satellit | a page ( pages)of recommended book links? in Journal... |
| 11:21 | sdziallas | cjb: well... you might be right. I'd get into trouble with my own trademark proposal: |
| 11:21 | SeanDaly | cjb: it's a bootable liveUSB distro... I'm not sure where the more restrictive comes in... Sugar code always available |
| 11:21 | sdziallas | cjb: "you may sell SoaS in case you don't alter it... uh wait, you may not, since the content we're shipping doesn't allow you" |
| 11:22 | cjb | SeanDaly: what sdziallas said. |
| 11:22 | sdziallas | cjb: I'm digging my own hole. |
| 11:22 | SeanDaly | again, these are questions for Karen, the question is how quickly she can advise |
| 11:23 | this came up a while back when we were discussing hundreds of edooks | |
| 11:23 | cjb | SeanDaly: I agree you should get in touch |
| 11:23 | sdziallas | notes that it's a bit sad that we've included these e-books for at least one snapshot and nobody cared. |
| 11:23 | SeanDaly | s/edooks/ebooks |
| 11:23 | cjb | SeanDaly: I don't think what sdziallas just said is legally controversial, though |
| 11:23 | walterbender | SeanDaly: if we can summarize them all, I'll send them off to her. |
| 11:23 | sdziallas | should have payed more attention. |
| 11:23 | cjb | SeanDaly: people would be unable to sell SoaS if it included non-commercial only material. that's what non-commercial means. |
| 11:23 | sdziallas | so we're going to slip again? |
| 11:24 | cjb | SeanDaly: so I think, in as far as we need to work out how we feel about that, it's a question for us even more than for Karen in that case |
| 11:24 | SeanDaly | and we thought of ebook bundles being separate downloads |
| 11:24 | sdziallas | maybe we should get another decision panel? :p |
| 11:24 | cjb | :) |
| 11:24 | sdziallas | (*gallows humor*) |
| 11:24 | SeanDaly | cjb: in that case we are in real trouble, we are shipping in 7 days |
| 11:25 | sdziallas | what we *could* do is using books from project gutenberg only, but that would significantly lower the value of our sample content. |
| 11:25 | JT4sugar | Can we contact someone at epubbooks.com about distribution question |
| 11:25 | cjb | SeanDaly: you could ask for an emergency SLOBS meeting, if you think there's something SLOBS can do |
| 11:26 | tomeu | maybe we need to need to fix the content industry, then come back to the software one |
| 11:26 | sdziallas | grins |
| 11:26 | SeanDaly | guffaws |
| 11:26 | cjb | hee hee |
| 11:26 | mako's actually been arguing with Lawrence Lessig a lot about this | |
| 11:26 | walterbender | let me see if we can get a quick read from Karen. but getting the right questions will expedite the discussion |
| 11:26 | cjb | walterbender: I think the questions are: |
| 11:27 | (1) Can we ship content on a non-commercial-only license in our Sugar on a Stick image, legally? | |
| 11:27 | (2) Does the conservancy have a problem with this? | |
| 11:27 | sdziallas | cjb: keep in mind that there's *no* SoaS trademark guideline, yet - so what I was saying earlier was just kicking out my own proposal. |
| 11:28 | cjb | (3) If we do this, is it correct that people could not redistribute Sugar on a Stick commercially? |
| 11:28 | does that sound like it addresses all the questions? | |
| 11:28 | walterbender | cjb: thanks. I'll post these to her now. |
| 11:28 | cjb | walterbender: cool. please CC slobs or iaep. |
| 11:29 | SeanDaly | I will need to sign off soon but there is another question I have in mind |
| 11:29 | sugaronastick.com is still up despite my requests to Caroline | |
| 11:29 | erikos | oups, bad moment to join.... |
| 11:30 | cjb | SeanDaly: wow, that's surprising |
| 11:30 | SeanDaly | if any journalists/bloggers publish that link, it's guaranteed confusion |
| 11:30 | sdziallas | cjb: really? ;) |
| 11:30 | SeanDaly | greets erikos :D |
| 11:30 | cjb | SeanDaly: oh, I see it redirects to schoolkey.net now |
| 11:30 | tomeu | wow, progress |
| 11:31 | sdziallas | cjb: it doesn't? |
| 11:31 | cjb: it does, actually. | |
| 11:31 | SeanDaly | well, that's different from this morning |
| 11:31 | sdziallas | cjb: it just shows the same content. |
| 11:31 | SeanDaly | the problem is, it should redirect to www.sugarlabs.org |
| 11:31 | dfarning__ | SeanDaly, it will, by the time of the release |
| 11:32 | tomeu | oh, the same confusing content |
| 11:32 | SeanDaly | dfarning__: really? will be great news |
| 11:32 | I've been worrying about that for weeks | |
| 11:34 | I was going to suggest that we add phrase in online PR: "sugaronastick.com not official Sugar Labs site" | |
| 11:34 | erikos | SeanDaly: I guess your request included the change of the content (pictures etc) right? |
| 11:34 | sdziallas | SeanDaly: *SoaS team hat on* that sounds very very reasonable to me, in case nothing changes. |
| 11:36 | SeanDaly | erikos: no, since I think the site should disappear. It can't be anything but confusing with Sugar trademark across the top of it and Sugar trademark on the bottom of it |
| 11:36 | erikos | SeanDaly: right, that is what I meant ;p good then |
| 11:39 | SeanDaly | however I don't feel it's a good idea to place text like that in the PR that goes out on PR Newswire |
| 11:40 | sdziallas | to repeat my question: everybody aware and in agreement that we'll need to slip again? |
| 11:40 | walterbender | SeanDaly: I would recommend we avoid any mention of the site |
| 11:40 | SeanDaly | might create more problem than solution |
| 11:41 | perhaps take it as it comes... hold off on that text online if no mentions, add it in with journalist/blogger briefing if a mention? | |
| 11:41 | the risk is the damage that can be done in the meantime | |
| 11:42 | sdziallas: by slip you mean new golden master? | |
| 11:43 | sdziallas | SeanDaly: well, if dfarning__ is right and it's down by the time we launch (or *hopefully* launch), it would be bad to have a note in the press release which goes out on... Thursday, right? |
| 11:43 | SeanDaly | we have a hard deadline of the morning of Dec. 8th Paris time |
| 11:43 | haven't decided yet if PR morning of Dec. 7th or Dec.8th | |
| 11:44 | if Dec. 8th, will only go live midmorning or noon Paris time | |
| 11:44 | and Dec. 7th additional $100 unless we submit by tomorrow afternoon EST... iffy | |
| 11:44 | dfarning__ | Let me talk to Solution Grove again today. Since leaving slobs i no longer talk for Sugar Labs interests. |
| 11:45 | Instead I focus on how businesses can build on top of sugar. | |
| 11:45 | SeanDaly | again, my concept is no such text in the PR that goes out on the wires, but only in the online version on our press page |
| 11:45 | sdziallas | SeanDaly: by slip I mean pushing the gold master back, yes. |
| 11:46 | SeanDaly: because that's the only possibility we've, I guess. | |
| 11:46 | dfarning__ | The current situation is not beneficial for anyone. |
| 11:46 | SeanDaly | sdziallas: walterbender has mailed Karen at SFC |
| 11:46 | dfarning__ | So we will change it. |
| 11:47 | SeanDaly | dumb question: difficult to organize bundle of eBooks from a link on offline default Browse homepage? |
| 11:47 | on say the new page I will work on with links to eBook repositories? | |
| 11:47 | sdziallas | SeanDaly: probably not too difficult, but I'm not an HTML hacker, so somebody would need to do this. |
| 11:48 | SeanDaly: we *could* hack around the default start page, but... well, it's still something that'd need to be done. | |
| 11:48 | SeanDaly | sdziallas: yes I understand, I'm trying to identify options which 1) sidestep legal complications 2) minimize slip |
| 11:49 | sdziallas | SeanDaly: yeah... |
| 11:49 | erikos | SeanDaly: what exactly do you want to place on the Browse page? a link? |
| 11:49 | SeanDaly | erikos: there are issues with licensing which complicate direct inclusion of kids eBooks in SoaS |
| 11:49 | walterbender | SeanDaly: a link into the Journal or a link into the file system? |
| 11:50 | SeanDaly | walterbender: I was thinking a link to the new ebooks wiki page, the same page which will explain how to download & read an eBook in Sugar |
| 11:50 | the page I'll be working on tonight :-) | |
| 11:50 | walterbender | SeanDaly: but an offline version? |
| 11:51 | sdziallas | people without internet access won't be able to read stuff, but it'd be better than nothing. |
| 11:51 | SeanDaly | walterbender: our concern is if we include eBooks and karen can't advise us very quickly, we are in difficult release timetable situation |
| 11:52 | sdziallas | I *could* do it tomorrow. (building the final image) |
| 11:52 | but the more we wait, the worse it's getting. | |
| 11:52 | I dunno until when we can get advised wrt to what we can include and what not. | |
| 11:52 | but I'm going to take a plane on friday and I'll have the final image in my bag. | |
| 11:52 | SeanDaly | it's clear we want to err on the side of caution |
| 11:53 | another possibly dumb suggestion: coould we bundle up the ebooks for ASLO? | |
| 11:53 | dfarning__ | I am concerned about the late push to add features. There will be another release in 6 months to add these things |
| 11:54 | SeanDaly | "Blueberry additional content" |
| 11:54 | dfarning__: we've been discussing the eBook orientation of this launch since Sept. | |
| 11:55 | but SoaS, trademark status has been in progress :-( | |
| 11:56 | cjb | SeanDaly: it's not a bad suggestion, but I think on Friday we're likely to ratify that we only want free/open stuff on ASLO (it's already been added to the agenda because of the Skype activity stuff). |
| 11:56 | SeanDaly | in any case we need to show parents & teachers how to find & add eBooks |
| 11:56 | cjb | yeah |
| 11:56 | SeanDaly | on the new wiki page |
| 11:58 | sdziallas | needs to run for a quarter of an hour and wonders whether there's anything else he should be aware of |
| 11:58 | SeanDaly | I need sign off too |
| 11:58 | sdziallas | walterbender: could you please e-mail me immediately when you know more on the licensing stuff? |
| 11:58 | we're one hour over time... :/ | |
| 11:59 | SeanDaly | since we had discussed linking to the wiki page list of links, I think adjusting default offline Brows homepage will be our best bet... |
| 11:59 | sdziallas: yes, that's what a launch is :-) | |
| 11:59 | sdziallas | SeanDaly: I think we should do so unless we've a solution by tomorrow. |
| 12:00 | and I might need to raise the static SL.org page on-list again... :/ | |
| 12:00 | SeanDaly | sdziallas: yes, I agree |
| 12:00 | sdziallas: Christian agreed and is standing by | |
| 12:00 | sdziallas | so let's wait until tomorrow and discuss the licensing thing then again? |
| 12:00 | SeanDaly: ah, okay. | |
| 12:01 | SeanDaly | I promised again (& failed again) to respond re common navbar, got sidetracked this weekend with family problem |
| 12:01 | sdziallas | SeanDaly: as I said... family comes *first*. :) |
| 12:02 | is over and out. | |
| 12:02 | SeanDaly | ok signing off now... |
| 12:02 | going once... | |
| 12:03 | going twice.... | |
| 12:03 | walterbender | sdziallas: I'll call Karen today as well... hopefully get a quick turn-around on this one. |
| 12:04 | SeanDaly | thanks walterbender |
| 12:04 | #endmeeting |
![http://www.sugarlabs.org/press[…]ck-Strawberry.png](http://www.sugarlabs.org/press/Sugar-on-a-Stick-Strawberry.png){kind=link}