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#sugar-meeting, 2009-11-25

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
10:04 SeanDaly I don't think this will be a long or involved meeting,
10:04 but i want to be sure we are on track to help sdziallas with the Blueberry launch
10:05 my chief concern is how exactly we should work in the eBook angle,
10:05 with sdziallas about to close the master, is that right sdziallas?
10:06 i was thinking it could be sufficient to add a small number of eBooks, then cite the sources in the PR
10:06 sdziallas SeanDaly: well, I'm really planning to compose it on Sunday, but by no means later than Tuesday (which I'd really hesitate to do already).
10:06 SeanDaly sdziallas: I don't want to push the deadline :-)
10:07 sdziallas SeanDaly: I'll have an incredibly busy next week from school and will be travelling to Toronto on Friday (the 4th), so I'm planning get everything done and tested this weekend
10:07 SeanDaly: :)
10:07 SeanDaly I believe you had collected some eBooks already?
10:07 remind me pls, was idea to populate the Journal with them?
10:07 sdziallas SeanDaly: I've put four ebooks (with illustrations) in from epubbooks.com (which offer us to let us blog on their page about sugar, btw) - but nothing set in stone.
10:08 SeanDaly: yes, in the most recent snapshot, they are in the journal and launch read by just clicking on them.
10:08 SeanDaly sdziallas: this sounds great
10:09 if we were able to find say a dozen other books from other sources, (quickly - next 3 days), could we add those too?
10:09 let me explain
10:09 I'd like to develop the angle of "open access"
10:10 many readers of tech sites think eBook=$$$ kindle
10:10 or the new Barnes & Noble Nook, or whatever
10:10 sdziallas nods
10:11 SeanDaly: well, including a few high-quality open books and hinting in the press release and the release notes at additional sources / portals / the possibility to download stuff through activities might work.
10:11 SeanDaly I think would be very useful to remind everyone that Sugar is an open system... open source... but also that we believe in open access... free availability to already available learning content
10:12 sdziallas: yes that's what I have in mind... not lots of work I think?
10:12 ideally, a few non-English books
10:12 the illustrated books you found are in EPUB?
10:12 or another format?
10:12 sdziallas SeanDaly: it's not a lot of work, but I'd be happy if we wouldn't use too many different sources...
10:12 SeanDaly: yup, epub!
10:13 (it saves not only space, but is somewhat like *the future*)
10:13 SeanDaly sdziallas: not too many sources? why?
10:13 space problem? what is size of typical EPUB eBook?
10:14 sdziallas SeanDaly: see, we're also not downloading activities from *everywhere*. we're taking them from a.sl.o. because we know what's there has been (mostly) tested and we're assured that there's some developer behind it.
10:14 SeanDaly: additionally, we can download them then alltogether through a small logic.
10:14 SeanDaly: it wouldn't be a real problem downloading them all from different places, though.
10:14 SeanDaly: no space problem, yet.
10:15 JT4sugar Should there be PDF in Journal that expalins sources of ebooks(That we know work), formats, and how to get them(Activities you can use) One page
10:15 sdziallas SeanDaly: I meant that using epub files saves us usually space, compared to pdf's.
10:15 SeanDaly ah OK in my mind (considering the few days left) we could find some, load them in, then merely mention the sources in the PR
10:16 sdziallas SeanDaly: let me get you a list of what's currently included.
10:16 SeanDaly of course, this leaves aside the problem of locating and obtaining eBooks, but for that, we could highlight ...?
10:16 sdziallas SeanDaly: Alice in Wonderland / Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz / Gulliver's Travels / The Secret Garden
10:17 SeanDaly sdziallas: wow those are certainly Greatest Hits ;-)
10:17 sdziallas SeanDaly: the Get Internet Archive Books (or how it's called)... activity.
10:17 SeanDaly: they've all more or less images, so I'm happy about those.
10:17 SeanDaly sdziallas: ah yes that's Jim's and I think Sayamindu worked on that too? or was that the other one?
10:18 sdziallas SeanDaly: yup!
10:18 SeanDaly: well, Jim's downloads only from the Internet Archive, from what I know.
10:18 unmadindu There is Get Books which handles sources other than Internet Archive, but its not very stable yet
10:18 sdziallas unmadindu: :)
10:19 unmadindu: do you think we should include it (actually, is it already on a.sl.o?) instead, or go the stable way for the release?
10:19 unmadindu: third option: "no answer. I'm biased" ;)
10:19 SeanDaly tomeu and I and others feel important to show that Sugar, open access eBooks, not *only* for English
10:19 sdziallas SeanDaly: yes, agreed. but we can't include books for all languages...
10:19 SeanDaly greets unmadindu :-)
10:19 unmadindu I think it is Get Internet Books which is in ASLO - I think you can include it
10:19 SeanDaly: hello :)
10:20 cklee1 how about Three Musketeers in French?
10:20 sdziallas SeanDaly: and for example including French books and leaving out German's would let German press wonder, I guess.
10:20 SeanDaly sdziallas: *all* languages is lots of languages :D I'm just saying a few different languages, in time for your Sunday build
10:20 unmadindu SeanDaly: I can contribute a Bengali  EPUB book (public domain..)
10:21 SeanDaly unmadindu: would be great! if interesting for children :D :D
10:21 sdziallas (if anybody has an *up2date* sugar pdf doc, make sure to get it to me)
10:21 unmadindu yeah - one of my favourite books when I was a kid
10:21 SeanDaly: http://people.sugarlabs.org/sa[…]u/shared_read.ogv is also something you may want to look into - it shows how Sugar lets people share books among themselves
10:21 SeanDaly sdziallas: sugar pdf doc?
10:22 unmadindu: yes I will look at that thanks
10:22 JT4sugar SeanDaly, A PDF with links to places where you can get Open Books in Other languages may be helpful
10:22 sdziallas SeanDaly: like: "wanna start developing activities? do this and that..."
10:22 self-notes to put languages in the journey entry title for ebooks
10:23 SeanDaly sdziallas: for developer recruitment you mean?
10:23 sdziallas SeanDaly: probably, yes. but only if there's something in good quality out there. I don't think we should include something that concerns older sugar versions (because it'd just cause confusion)
10:24 SeanDaly: but this is really not important :) real ebooks first!
10:24 SeanDaly sdziallas: at Educatice I handed out the PDF Simon had prepared
10:25 sdziallas SeanDaly: ah, okay. I think I saw that on the list... not sure, though.
10:25 SeanDaly The idea in holiday season is to say that eBook gift can be open access with Sugar, not a $250 dedicated reader and ¬¬¬ ebooks
10:26 and that Sugar supports many languages, with a few non-English books in there (not all langs)
10:26 sdziallas SeanDaly: that sounds reasonable to me
10:27 SeanDaly sdziallas: for example we could bump your thread and ask people to post links to favorite eBooks, in all languages?
10:28 all we really need to do is demonstrate what can be done with Sugar... to change people's preconceptions
10:28 sdziallas SeanDaly: yes... just go ahead!
10:28 JT4sugar sdziallas, The four books you have in-all available in multiple languages yes?
10:28 sdziallas JT4sugar: they should - but epubbooks.com (where we get them from) ships only english stuff, afaics
10:28 the point is:
10:29 JT4sugar sdziallas, I see
10:29 sdziallas if we started including these four books in... say, six languages, and added like a few more ones, we were already close to 30.
10:29 and then we've still the sample maps around, which are another eight journal entries.
10:30 unmadindu sdziallas: will I be annoying you if I ask you to include the package lohit-bengali-fonts in the builds at this stage (for the Bengali EPUB) ?
10:30 SeanDaly sdziallas: ah i see overstuffed Journal issue
10:30 sdziallas I'm a bit afraid of shipping a cluttered journal by default which contains content some people won't be able to read.
10:30 SeanDaly: yes, exactly.
10:30 unmadindu: let me see...
10:30 SeanDaly sdziallas: a valid point
10:30 unmadindu sdziallas: +1 on cluttered Journal
10:31 sdziallas SeanDaly: and the bad thing is that we can't hack up some kind of language selector anymore, because 0.86 is... well, released, heh ;)
10:31 SeanDaly http://en.childrenslibrary.org/ International Children's Digital Library
10:31 sdziallas so I'm not sure where to draw the line between "really really useful" and "somewhat cluttered"
10:31 looks
10:31 SeanDaly sdziallas: yes quite
10:31 sdziallas unmadindu: please remind me of including it; it's just 72 kB, we should just do it ;)
10:32 unmadindu sdziallas: ok :)
10:32 sdziallas SeanDaly: that looks really multiple language, yes ;)
10:32 SeanDaly sdziallas: as I say for demo purposes, even a very few in other languages could work, we just need to point to a wiki page about how to get eBooks into Sugar
10:33 sdziallas SeanDaly: yes, +1!
10:33 SeanDaly example: 1) try one of these sites: ...., 2) download to your computer, 3) ...
10:34 JT4sugar Again a PDF pointing to sources in Multiple Languages I think gets us over hurdle-Along with a wiki page put PDF in Journal with info
10:34 sdziallas nods
10:34 SeanDaly JT4sugar: yes an accompanying PDF with link to the wiki page would be great
10:36 JT4sugar sdziallas, Didn't Mel just write thread on wiki page/PDF creation?
10:36 sdziallas nods
10:36 JT4sugar: yes, and I still need to reply there... well, she converted the pdfs / svgs I created into a wiki page (which is really great)
10:37 SeanDaly I saw that thread, but didn't understand how to update PDF/SVG, maybe I need to reread...
10:37 sdziallas SeanDaly: oh well... the wiki thing is just about content and progress tracking.
10:38 SeanDaly: (sorry, I'm a bit late replying there, too)
10:38 JT4sugar sdziallas, So if we stay with creating PDF's for JOurnal and Sugar "How To" we can easily turn into wiki pages-seems like good process and allows for use offline
10:38 sdziallas SeanDaly: so we could just all edit away in the wiki, and once it's done and good, I'd just throw it again in the svg file (while keeping the layout) and export it as a pdf.
10:38 JT4sugar: exactly!
10:39 SeanDaly my concern is, easy enough to convert from a source (OOo, abiword, Inkscape, images) to PDF, it's the other direction (or to wiki) which is difficult
10:39 from wiki-> PDF how to keep formatting? i have no idea :-(
10:39 sdziallas SeanDaly: well, I'd just put the text / content into my already existing svg.
10:40 JT4sugar SeanDaly, Thats what I thought Mel said she was able to do-SVG to wiki
10:40 SeanDaly sdziallas: my point is that creates an additional burden on you... you don't want to do that for every wiki edit, or even every final edit for every language
10:41 by the way, this is why our translated press releases are not all available in PDF: lots of manual work :-(
10:41 sdziallas SeanDaly: yes... well, I'd convert it back only once. not more. ;) (so make sure to tell me when everything's done)
10:42 SeanDaly I'm sure an i18n toolchain can be devised, but is on long list of things to explore
10:42 sdziallas: ok that's what i thought
10:44 JT4sugar http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/[…]ge_release_notes- we made the content for the Fedora 12 one-page release notes this way before layout (in Inkscape) for PDF, then kept the wiki page as the online version
10:45 SeanDaly here's a dumb question: is it difficult to convert an existing eBook to EPUB format?
10:45 sdziallas doesn't know that
10:46 JT4sugar Above per Mel
10:47 SeanDaly on the IDCL site i see a book like this: http://www.childrenslibrary.or[…]&ilang=Portuguese
10:47 which talks about an exotic plugin
10:47 but they told me they could share what they have with us
10:48 in fact it seems all their books are online in reader wrappers
10:52 sdziallas: you will be in Toronto for FUDcon Dec. 8th?
10:53 sdziallas SeanDaly: yes - or no, I'll be on the bus to Boston, I think. (but I'll have wifi there, from what I know)
10:54 SeanDaly sdziallas: ok just wondering - Walter will give the keynote at Netbook World Summit in Paris for the Blueberry launch
10:55 sdziallas SeanDaly: whoa! nice :)
10:55 SeanDaly: I'll make sure to be at least lurking in every channel...
10:55 SeanDaly: if it wouldn't have conflicted, I'd have come over...
10:55 SeanDaly they just confirmed evening before yesterday
10:55 sdziallas: yes that's why I asked :D
10:56 sdziallas SeanDaly: cool! :) well... we'll make sure to have a big SoaS v3 launch with everybody around then
10:57 SeanDaly OK Caroline had made an excellent suggestion about kids making their own eBook
10:57 we are out of days left to do anything about that I think
10:57 JT4sugar SeanDaly, Is keynote at Netbook Summit on Dec 8th?
10:58 SeanDaly JT4sugar: yes, here's link:
10:58 http://www.netbookworldsummit.org/
10:59 JT4sugar SeanDaly, Gerald in New York has been using Etoys as a way to create books
10:59 SeanDaly interesting link to convert to ePub: http://www.lexcycle.com/faq/how_to_create_epub
11:00 also: http://www.jedisaber.com/eBooks/tutorial.asp
11:00 sdziallas SeanDaly: calibre is packaged for most of the linux distros
11:00 SeanDaly JT4sugar: I think it would be fantastic if we could include 1 eBook made by kids
11:01 sdziallas: I'm running Fedora 11 on my Dell latitude 2100, will look at that
11:01 sdziallas SeanDaly: it's available there...
11:02 SeanDaly by the way showed that to a Dell guy at Educatice who had a classroom stand with 24 of them, then I booted Strawberry he got really interested and took down my name but unfortunately I couldn't get his, salon was closing & I had to pack up the booth
11:03 JT4sugar SeanDaly, May be good to ping Sur list for that-Book made by kids in Spanish would be nice touch or Nepal or Country in Africa-David Cavallo might help there
11:03 SeanDaly JT4sugar: yes will do... they will probably not appreciate short notice, but we do the best we can :-)
11:04 sdziallas SeanDaly: really nice news wrt Dell!
11:04 SeanDaly calibre looks really interesting! http://calibre-ebook.com/demo
11:07 JT4sugar SeanDaly, Still have opening to Product Mgr for Dell 2100-will contact if it is deemed right time to do so
11:07 SeanDaly JT4sugar: hold onto that for now - i thought might be better following Blueberry launch?
11:08 by the way (have to run soon) concerning visual for Blueberry launch: I'd like to take photo of SoaS running on an XO, the Dell, and a Classmate
11:09 but I'm stuck the soas05xo.img has temporarily bricked my XO-1
11:10 JT4sugar SeanDaly, Will do Mid-December after launch  may be very good time to contact them
11:10 SeanDaly JT4sugar: yes I agree
11:10 sdziallas SeanDaly: I'm a bit behind the XO builds...
11:11 JT4sugar SeanDaly, Before you go-Time frame for OLPC/Sugar press release?
11:11 SeanDaly all right i need to run, for action I will ping lists for eBook suggestions, mentioning that we can't add too many because of 1) golden master deadline 2) overstuffed Journal
11:12 JT4sugar: waiting for replies from Chuck and Rodrigo (5 days now), Walter & I pinged them yesterday
11:12 JT4sugar Ok-Thanks
11:13 SeanDaly thanks again for your edits, when I get replies from OLPC Association I'll merge for new draft
11:13 ok need to run! countdown to disconnect going once...
11:14 JT4sugar Sounds Good!
11:15 SeanDaly going twice...
11:16 #endmeeting

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