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#sugar-meeting, 2009-08-17

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Time Nick Message
10:02 erikos #TOPIC Triage meeting (little features)
10:04 who is here for the triage meeting?
10:04 garycmartin erikos: beep
10:05 erikos garycmartin: great, you made it!
10:05 has seen tomeu floating around
10:05 alsroot: here as well?
10:05 alsroot erikos: yup
10:06 erikos nice
10:06 gets a search in trac for 0.86
10:06 walterbender is here too (missed yersterday's design meeting :( )
10:06 erikos hi walterbender !
10:07 walterbender: I can send an update to the ml from yesterday later
10:08 tomeu floats around
10:09 garycmartin waves to a tomeu as he drifts overhead
10:09 erikos here is a url: http://tinyurl.com/pd43ou
10:09 this has all the bugs currently marked 0.86
10:10 I would like to find the bugs - that are about a little feature
10:10 or that looks like bigger code changes are needed, in order to make them right
10:10 tomeu are new bugs automatically marked for 0.86?
10:11 garycmartin tomeu: no
10:11 erikos tomeu: no
10:11 tomeu ok, so we would be looking at a small subset of all pending bugs, right?
10:12 erikos yeah - I would like to do that first - as we might be able to get something in for friday
10:12 garycmartin erikos: this is an attempts to grab small fixes/tweaks before the freeze on Thurs?
10:12 erikos garycmartin: yes
10:13 garycmartin: we had often bugs in the past, we had to say: "the proper fix would be, but we can't do it because it is feature freeze..."
10:13 garycmartin: that I want to avoid a bit
10:13 garycmartin erikos: how should we flag them (I'm thinking there are likely small tweaks not yet marked as 0.86)
10:16 tomeu we only have 515 open tickets
10:16 erikos garycmartin: a keyword, let's say:
10:16 tomeu wonder if we can avoid having to go through all of them to spot these opportunities
10:17 erikos garycmartin: 'little'
10:17 other ideas for wording welcome ;p
10:17 tomeu: yeah, right
10:17 tomeu: we both should know some, as we filed them before
10:17 tomeu erikos: what if we mark them as improvements and mark the other improvements for 0.88?
10:18 erikos tomeu: what are the 'others' ?
10:18 tomeu erikos: the bigger ones
10:18 leave only as improvements for 0.86 the ones we think we can do
10:19 erikos tomeu: isn't that a second step?
10:19 tomeu erikos: hmm, why so?
10:20 erikos tomeu: I would say: each goes through the tickets he has reported for 0.86 first
10:21 tomeu: and mark the ones with potential 'improvements'
10:21 tomeu: if you want, we can directly mark the ones we can not do 0.88
10:21 tomeu: but we might want to discuss here first
10:21 garycmartin erikos: so these would be bug fixes that require (small) feature changes. Regular bugs can get fixed later right (like all the metacity nightmare)?
10:21 tomeu erikos: so you want to have 2 phases so we can all discuss together in the second phase?
10:22 erikos tomeu: yeah, do you think too complicated?
10:22 garycmartin: right
10:22 tomeu well, we may not end before feat. freeze :p
10:24 erikos tomeu: but how can gary decide if a fix gets in into 0.86 - if he does not code it himself
10:24 tomeu: ?
10:24 tomeu: (as example)
10:25 bangs his head, as we already lost 24 minutes
10:25 tomeu I agree, but we don't have much time anyway to code those themselves, right?
10:25 erikos yeah :/
10:26 ok - let's each of us scan quickly through them and ask here if he is unsure
10:26 tomeu I'm just a bit concerned that we end up with a list and have no time to actually work on it
10:26 garycmartin erikos: OK not 100% sure, but I'm now looking at my 0.86 tickets (and I may have other non 0.86 flagged stuff I'll check later). Will IRC questions as I hit them :-)
10:26 tomeu ok
10:26 erikos tomeu: other suggestions welcome, I know what you mean, but I have no other idea to do it
10:27 tomeu ok, let me look at that list and see if I can see items like that
10:28 erikos nice
10:28 tomeu this one seems like a bug, but one quite invasive: http://dev.sugarlabs.org/ticket/134
10:29 we don't have a way to mark invasiveness nor "size"
10:29 garycmartin erikos: #1067 Sugar friendly mozilla theme. What I posted works well (just fixes scrollbars). Will this get locked out by the freeze. Missing part is how to provide the .jar to Browse and not some distro install hack.
10:30 erikos garycmartin: yes, would be a feature - so if we want it in, we should mark it
10:30 did add the 0.88 milestone to trac
10:30 garycmartin: and as we have done work on that - I would say so
10:31 tomeu: shall we handle that by keywords for now?
10:31 garycmartin erikos: #1067 OK, it's marked enhancement and 0.86, no keywords, should I add something else so you can quickly find?
10:31 tomeu erikos: ok, we are interested in marking small features and big defects?
10:31 erikos tomeu: yes
10:31 garycmartin erikos: Is this a r? case
10:32 erikos tomeu: garycmartin we can mark them blocker as well?
10:33 garycmartin erikos: blocker, hmmm, seems that should be for worst case broken release type thing.
10:34 tomeu yeah, not 100% sure
10:34 erikos garycmartin: yeah, so lets use a keyword
10:35 ok, I think we have enhancements
10:35 I guess that is the right, one
10:36 and for bigger bugs - let's add the keyword invasive
10:36 sounds good?
10:37 garycmartin so keywork "enhancements" or "invasive" for ones likely to be too big.
10:37 (keyword)
10:37 erikos garycmartin: enhancements is the bug type field
10:37 garycmartin: no keyword needed here
10:38 garycmartin erikos: yea, already the type field thats why I was asking :-)
10:38 erikos garycmartin: ok
10:39 so the bugs that are marked enhancements already, are likely the ones we should look at
10:39 garycmartin erikos: should we just push (and ping here first) big issues to 0.88, so we just are left with 0.86?
10:40 erikos garycmartin: yup, sounds good
10:40 garycmartin: let's just scan the bugs marked enhancements first
10:41 garycmartin erikos: OK :-) Phew!
10:41 erikos http://tinyurl.com/ozvodl
10:42 alsroot erikos: I guess we can close w/ "nonsugar" http://dev.sugarlabs.org/ticket/133
10:42 erikos looks
10:43 alsroot: I think tomeu had in mind to allow a gconf key or similar for that
10:44 garycmartin erikos: #652 Potential Journal Detail View improvements, I guess this can go 0.88 or just "wont fix" and close? Perhaps should just be on some random proposal or design wiki page?
10:44 tomeu erikos: are we supposed to be looking all at the same list of tickets?
10:45 about #133, do we know in which way distros want to customize that cp section?
10:45 garycmartin tomeu: (I'm starting with mine)
10:46 alsroot erikos: I mean do we really need this kind of stuff(serial number, build, firmware) in sugar(at least for now)  -- deployer can do it on his own -- mybe later we can summarise experience and add API fro that
10:46 erikos garycmartin: is it still valid? I mean, yesterday cms had some ideas on how to improve it, so I guess we would end up with new mockups anyhow
10:47 tomeu: of course you can look at your own list
10:47 tomeu: I just provided a filtered list
10:47 tomeu erikos: my own list being what?
10:47 a bit confused
10:47 erikos <tomeu> erikos: are we supposed to be looking all at the same list of tickets?
10:47 tomeu I liked those triaging meetings when each one had a list of tickets to look at
10:48 erikos: aren't going to duplicate work this way?
10:48 garycmartin erikos: cms just pointed out the current details view was too far away from normal usage. He didn't have any suggestions (#652 would be my suggestion to make it more useful)
10:48 erikos tomeu: use the url I have posted, and look at the tickets you reported
10:48 tomeu ok, so I filter by reporter
10:49 erikos garycmartin: ok, cool - then leave this ticket for 0.88
10:49 garycmartin: and mockups can be added there then
10:49 garycmartin erikos: OK :-)
10:49 erikos garycmartin: and cc the other designers
10:49 garycmartin: in the design component already - so all good I guess
10:50 tomeu and have we agreed on how to mark those little features we want done before feat. freeze?
10:50 erikos sleepy tomeu!
10:50 tomeu confused, quite
10:50 erikos tomeu: enhancements is for features
10:51 tomeu: if we don't want to do them we move it out to 0.88
10:51 tomeu heh, isn't that what I said? :p
10:51 erikos tomeu: so we should end up with a list of enhancements for 0.86
10:51 tomeu ok, nice
10:51 erikos tomeu: so we agree in the end! ;p
10:52 tomeu: I just stole your idea, and made it look like it was mine ;p
10:52 tomeu: and 'invasive' is a keyword you can use for the bugs (defects)
10:52 walterbender erikos: I've done all the tickets that I own... what's next?
10:53 erikos walterbender: you can start to have a look on the tickets that are not marked 0.86 - the enhancements
10:53 walterbender: and find out where they belong to (if there are any open)
10:53 walterbender ok. will take a look
10:55 erikos alsroot: I guess, we can close the ticket for now, and wait until a distro asks for it
10:55 alsroot: or see what exactly they would be interested in
10:56 walterbender: we do not get 673?
10:57 walterbender erikos: I have too many other changes/fixes to Turtle Art to do right now that I consider more of a priority
10:58 erikos: backward compatibility and some sort of versioning being my too biggest priorities
10:58 garycmartin erikos: #381, stable neighbourhood icon placement. Push this to 0.88 yea (noticed you'd dropped it from the feature list) :-(
10:58 erikos walterbender: ok, that is fine
10:58 garycmartin: yeah, sorry :(
10:58 walterbender erikos: trying to be realistic
10:58 garycmartin erikos: no problem
10:59 erikos walterbender: yeah, I guess that is the right thing to do
10:59 tomeu ok, I'm done
10:59 erikos tomeu: then the tickets you own
10:59 garycmartin erikos: I hope 0.88 will be easy to upgrade too (somehow) especially if OLPC starts shipping with 0.86.
11:00 tomeu does what is told
11:02 garycmartin: why wouldn't be easy to upgrade to?
11:04 erikos btw: we should be careful, with moving out tickets we are not the owner of
11:04 garycmartin tomeu: if OLPC doesn't pick up 0.88, 0.90, 0.92... It could be another 6+ months before a new XO image gets all their required testing.
11:04 tomeu erikos: should we send email telling non-developers to apply pressure for the small enhancements they need implemented?
11:04 alsroot erikos: is http://getsatisfaction.com/sugarlabs only soas related
11:04 erikos tomeu: we could do that
11:05 tomeu garycmartin: well yes, but why wouldn't pick up a new release?
11:05 erikos sdziallas: <alsroot> erikos: is http://getsatisfaction.com/sugarlabs only soas related
11:05 alsroot I mean do we have user friendly bug system
11:05 for common sugar
11:05 looks at http://dev.sugarlabs.org/ticket/117
11:06 erikos alsroot: ok, I see
11:06 sdziallas alsroot, erikos: nope, definitely not.
11:06 garycmartin tomeu: they don't have enough hands on deck to make frequent official builds for their HW. At least that is my impression. We seemed lucky to get close to 2 in a year even when there was more staff.
11:06 erikos alsroot: you can move it to 0.88, I say
11:07 sdziallas erikos, alsroot: GS was more to experiment, afaik, but... most of the stuff asked there is Sugar-related in any way...
11:07 erikos: I'd prefer putting SoaS related stuff on LP... but I'm still not sure what to do about automatic bug reporting
11:07 alsroot sdziallas: does http://getsatisfaction.com/sugarlabs have any UI to upload systeminfo?
11:08 erikos sdziallas: ok
11:08 alsroot sdziallas: maybe in just any file to attach
11:08 tomeu garycmartin: sure, and what can we do about that?
11:09 sdziallas alsroot: not sure about that, probably...
11:09 alsroot: if it's for SoaS, I'd like to ask people to use smolt, if it's sugar in general... well, we might want to find some solution for that, yeah.
11:09 erikos alsroot: so, move it out ;p
11:10 alsroot sdziallas: can user upload through smolt any file/tarball ?
11:10 erikos: I guess having debug info is critical in general and it could be good idea to heve it in 0.86
11:11 sdziallas alsroot: no, it's more to run that tool which submits the info then... but being able to submit a file somewhere would be nice, too.
11:11 alsroot jsut remembers many Q in ml@ and his reply - please provide debug info
11:12 tomeu erikos: moved this one to you: http://dev.sugarlabs.org/ticket/1168
11:14 erikos tomeu: what do you think about http://dev.sugarlabs.org/ticket/671 ?
11:14 garycmartin tomeu: That's why it was just a 'hope' that 0.88 and above upgrades would be easy, so that as many deployments as possible keep with a recent release. No magic wand, not much SL can do.
11:14 alsroot erikos: btw it could be useful have checkbox somewhere to unable debug mode(from ~/.sugar/debug) and send all logs to sugar server(something like pastebin service)
11:15 tomeu garycmartin: well, I think it's our goal to make it as easy as possible for deployments
11:15 we want our software used, after all
11:17 erikos alsroot: and that would be in the control panel?
11:17 alsroot erikos: or in Log
11:17 erikos alsroot: that option I mean
11:17 alsroot: we had that once in log - the sending the log files
11:17 alsroot: but where would we dump them?
11:17 garycmartin erikos: tomeu is #1129 (Alt key in home view toggles to start new rather than resume) plausable for 0.86?
11:18 alsroot erikos: somethere on SL servers(ftp)
11:18 checks Log
11:19 erikos alsroot: if we have the bandwith, why not
11:19 tomeu garycmartin: would be great
11:19 alsroot erikos: I mean that should a problem for non-tech user to enable debug mode, so option if one button to enable logs and send results could be very useful
11:20 erikos garycmartin: I don't think technically hard to do
11:20 alsroot: sure, I see the benefit
11:20 garycmartin tomeu, erikos  I'll mark it 0.86, but if it slips, it slips.
11:21 erikos garycmartin: if you code it, it will not slip ;D
11:21 garycmartin erikos: if I code it Tomeu will r- it ;-P
11:22 tomeu of course!
11:22 erikos garycmartin: nah, only r! maybe
11:22 tomeu and I will be too busy r-'ing other patches to code it myself
11:22 erikos tomeu: you have your reputation by now, is it that you wanted?
11:22 hopes this is no bad sign
11:23 after marco had the reputation he disappeared...
11:23 garycmartin thinks we should make tomeu a nice shiny r- badge
11:23 erikos :D
11:23 tomeu t-shirt, better
11:23 erikos tomeu: and red of course!
11:24 tomeu either red or black, I guess
11:24 erikos alsroot: ok, how about we send an email to the mailing list to find a volunteer to work on it
11:24 alsroot: whether you nor me has cycles for that, I guess
11:25 garycmartin t-shirt, yea, on the back it can read "Do You Feel Lucky, Punk?"
11:25 alsroot erikos: I'll create stub on Feature/(to track it) and send to sugar-devel@
11:25 erikos alsroot: awesome
11:29 has done his reported enhancements
11:29 has problems moving things out - as he likes the enhancements
11:31 does now do 'owner marcopg'
11:31 garycmartin erikos: is #1074 "Browse show right click palette when hovering over image" something we can do?
11:32 erikos garycmartin: this is a good one - and I remember a related one
11:32 garycmartin erikos: (#1074 was a workflow improvment suggestion that came out of the recent summer school trials)
11:33 erikos garycmartin: we have to rework the strings and icons for the download palettes
11:33 garycmartin: there was a ticket about that one
11:33 garycmartin erikos: OK marking #1074 as 0.86 enhancement.
11:33 erikos: ticket, yes I think it's next on my list!
11:35 erikos garycmartin: the arrow does change when you hover over, isn't that good enough?
11:37 garycmartin: from another discussion: http://dev.sugarlabs.org/ticket/562
11:37 garycmartin erikos: I don't think so. The trick was having to right click. Every where else in Sugar 'context' menus display on a hover delay.
11:37 erikos garycmartin: maybe you can help to get us a good string for this one
11:37 garycmartin: and we would do the same for links as well?
11:38 garycmartin erikos: kids didn't pick up on the need right click. Links, well possibly, but that didn't get reported, that menu likely less used by kids?
11:40 erikos garycmartin: hmm hmmm
11:40 garycmartin: i see - the point - I just tested in browse the palettes in general
11:40 garycmartin: and they stay open quite easily - but that looks like a bug to me, actually
11:47 garycmartin walterbender: #1056 center & rotate image placements (to match turtle) Is this something than can make 0.86? Worried folks will get used to current behaviour and existing Journal work will get broken.
11:48 walterbender garycmartin: I could probably get it in for 0.86. But I am not sure what the connection to the Journal is?
11:49 tomeu ok, I'm done
11:49 erikos tomeu: nice!
11:49 is proud of tomeu
11:49 walterbender tomeu: time to do some coding :)
11:50 garycmartin walterbender: Sorry wasn't clear, I was thinking kids and teachers with presentations using that tile, changing the behaviour will likely cause images to be placed and rotated incorrectly in existing work.
11:50 walterbender garycmartin: understood!
11:50 erikos tomeu: was it successful - did you find some items - worth working on?
11:51 garycmartin walterbender: Cool. I've set #1056 to be an 0.86 enhancement.
11:53 walterbender garycmartin: first I have t unbreak TA. I was experimenting with versions
11:53 tomeu erikos: too many :(
11:54 garycmartin walterbender: well I guess as an activity TA can change a little later, closer to the wire than Sugar :-)
11:54 erikos tomeu: ok, we can trim it down
11:54 tomeu: same here :/
11:54 tomeu yeah, before coding myself I should go through the review queue again
11:55 erikos tomeu: http://dev.sugarlabs.org/ticket/120
11:55 tomeu: shall we do this change?
11:56 tomeu erikos: I agree with your last comment :p
11:57 I guess this is for the activity team?
11:57 alsroot erikos: tomeu: we still dont have http://dev.sugarlabs.org/ticket/701 implemented -- should we pass it to Engineering committee
11:58 like http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/F[…]/Activity_Objects
11:58 erikos tomeu: I moved it, I guess we only had one so far
11:58 tomeu: one request, I mean
11:59 tomeu yeah
11:59 erikos tomeu: I guess, you left 701 on purpose
12:00 tomeu erikos: wasn't going through defects
12:01 walterbender isn't the plan to rename "defects" to "features" and call it a day :)
12:01 erikos tomeu: ahh, ok
12:02 tomeu bugs go by default to me, as sugar is the default module and I'm the owner
12:03 alsroot btw http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/F[…]/Activity_Objects won't mean much coding, and moreover we could emulate existed behavior(but saving benefits like upgrading systrem activities)
12:03 tomeu I guess I have lots of kernel work to do
12:03 erikos tomeu: all fine, I was just in triage mode - and aleksey brought other items up
12:03 tomeu alsroot: that scares me a lot, we have other workarounds that are much lower risk
12:04 erikos: I will need help with triaging my tickets
12:04 and we should split the bug trackers
12:07 erikos tomeu: sure, as most of the tickets are filed to sugar - I will help you there
12:07 sdziallas: we have moved to launchpad for soas, right?
12:07 tomeu oh?
12:08 sdziallas erikos: heh, I'd love us to :)
12:08 erikos sdziallas: what is missing?
12:08 sdziallas erikos: it's still "evaluation", I guess, but it's what I think we should try for the beta...
12:09 erikos: an announcement (from our side)
12:09 erikos sdziallas: and moving the exisiting bugs, right?
12:09 sdziallas erikos: I'm not sure if we want to move them...
12:09 erikos sdziallas: hah! you want to leave them just behind?
12:10 sdziallas erikos: because there's such a bloat - we could keep them in trac and file urgent ones in LP again, but link to the trac entry.
12:10 erikos sdziallas: :/
12:10 sdziallas: we want to clean trac up, really
12:10 sdziallas erikos: heh... by moving the clutter to launchpad ;)
12:10 erikos sdziallas: how many soas bugs do we have at the moment?
12:10 sdziallas erikos: I don't know. because people file them under different entries.
12:11 erikos sdziallas: we can close the ones we don't want before, of course
12:11 sdziallas erikos: I only get notifications if the product is SoaS, but people also file against Sugar with SoaS as the distro only (which doesn't make me aware of them).
12:11 erikos sdziallas: we can announce soas-triage move over sessions
12:11 sdziallas erikos: that would be very helpful.
12:11 erikos tomeu: does that sound, like what you requested?
12:12 garycmartin erikos: So I see about ~40 tickets now for 0.86 enhancements (just focusing on sugar and sugar related components). Does that seem about right?
12:12 sdziallas erikos, tomeu: I was about to ask whether people were around on saturday for a soas readiness meeting
12:12 we could probably combine that.
12:13 erikos: I'm going to ask for availabilities via e-mail, too.
12:13 tomeu sdziallas: not 100% sure yet about the saturday
12:14 40 enhancements for 0.86? looks like a lot
12:14 erikos garycmartin: yeah - sounds much
12:15 but I am sure, we can trim that more
12:15 when looking at them a second time
12:15 tomeu 48 :/
12:15 will go through mine once more
12:19 erikos tomeu: http://dev.sugarlabs.org/ticket/352 what do you think about this?
12:20 tomeu erikos: just moved to 0.88
12:20 erikos tomeu: ok, cool
12:21 guys, I have to run now - I am back tomorrow morning early as well
12:21 tomeu alsroot: about http://dev.sugarlabs.org/ticket/1077 I was thinking that maybe just upping the timeout would help there
12:21 erikos #endmeeting

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