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#sugar-meeting, 2009-07-07

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
10:05 homunq Who's here? lucian_, walterbender, silbe, bemasc, subzero, iwikiwi, assimd
10:06 ?
10:06 iwikiwi me
10:06 lucian_ homunq: here
10:06 bemasc is
10:06 tomeu listens
10:06 silbe is there
10:07 homunq OK
10:07 So, it's midterm evaluation time.
10:08 Have people started to do that?
10:08 bemasc assimd: ping
10:08 homunq Do y'all feel that expectations there are clear?
10:09 silbe waited for this meeting before filling it out
10:09 homunq Does anybody know where aa and BryanBerry are?
10:09 iwikiwi same as silbe
10:09 No idea about aa, but his mail kickstarted things for me
10:11 lucian_ already filled it out
10:11 subzero homunq: I got an email from him
10:11 homunq: I think he'll be here
10:13 bemasc lucian_: you filled out what?
10:14 lucian_ bemasc: the evaluation form
10:14 homunq OK. Let's do a round of the projects. Give a link and a very quick (quicker than usual) summary of progress, then talk about midterms - how you feel, doubts, etc.
10:14 bemasc lucian_: are students supposed to do that? I thought it was mentors' job?
10:14 silbe bemasc: both
10:14 lucian_ bemasc: students also get a form
10:15 can start if walterbender is listening (and others are ok with it)
10:15 walterbender is all ears
10:15 homunq I think the students' one is optional, though encouraged.
10:15 #topic lucian_ walterbender
10:15 lucian_ a bit of progress report here http://honeyweb.wordpress.com
10:16 i'm working with walter to integrate my changes in Browse mainline and push out a new version
10:16 and also on a text editing feature for clipboard text items
10:16 bemasc found it on socghop
10:17 lucian_ basically i have most of the features done
10:17 they need some polish and some depend on bugs being fixed upstream
10:19 walterbender doesn'
10:20 doesn't have anything else to add... steady progress!!
10:20 next?
10:20 homunq OK, so eval-wise, you are both clear?
10:21 walterbender already done.
10:21 homunq what's the deal with "editing text on the clipboard"?
10:21 how does that relate to the rest of the project?
10:21 lucian_ homunq: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/F[…]it-panel-on-Frame
10:21 walterbender we need a way to invoke a text editor
10:22 so we thought a general solution where you can edit text on the clipboard would be a simple approach
10:22 and generalizable
10:22 lucian_ homunq: for userstyles and userscripts. i don't depend on a frame-editor, but it would be a more streamlined experience
10:22 homunq OK
10:22 walterbender from the UI POV, the current setup is confusing
10:22 bemasc huh. weird, but interesting.
10:22 walterbender lucian_: hw do you exit the editor?
10:23 lucian_ walterbender: the one i have right now? just click save or cancel
10:23 walterbender lucian_: save and cancel didn't show up :(
10:24 lucian_ walterbender: you must have the wrong revision. try the latest from browse/webified.git
10:24 homunq I think that you should look into using this with "view source"
10:24 I mean, using "view source" as the way to get at user styles
10:24 lucian_ homunq: yeah, i thought of that. but i don't know how i would decide what source to show
10:25 homunq: when the user activates 'view source' in an SSB
10:25 homunq lucian_: let's talk about that after the meeting, I have some ideas.
10:25 lucian_ homunq: sure
10:25 silbe lucian_: it has tabs for activity template and instance, maybe you could add another one for your stuff?
10:26 lucian_ silbe: oh, right. i'll look into that
10:26 homunq #topic silbe homunq versions
10:27 silbe the basic prototype is working fine, maybe tomeu tried it out by now
10:27 so except for the unit tests, the stuff from the GSoC proposal should be done, albeit quite basic
10:27 homunq Link?
10:28 silbe meanwhile i've set up a proposal for API changes and a rewrite of the datastore (http://git.sugarlabs.org/proje[…]ore-redesign.html , follow "raw blob"), see also mailing list thread about that
10:28 homunq Myself, I have to really apologize for not keeping up with the meetings. I have a friend in jail in Honduras and have been very distracted by the coup there.
10:29 silbe homunq: http://git.sugarlabs.org/proje[…]os/versionsupport http://git.sugarlabs.org/proje[…]os/versionsupport ://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/su​gar-toolkit/repos/versionsupport
10:29 homunq: no apology needed
10:29 homunq: and i hope your friend gets out soon
10:30 homunq thanks
10:31 silbe the question now is whether to start hacking at the new prototype (most of the proposal seemed to be fine with Tomeu and Eben) or to refine the basic prototype for GSoC and do the new one later.
10:32 homunq What is your preference?
10:33 silbe homunq: the new one is more like what i inteded to do, so i obviously prefer starting to hack on it. OTOH it's a large piece of work and most likely won't be finished during GSoC period.
10:34 but if the new one gets done, the old one most likely won't be merged, so working on it seems to be a waste of time
10:34 i'd like to hear Tomeus opinion on this...
10:35 tomeu well, figuring out the best design is a big part of it, but in order to validate it we need to evaluate its robustness and performance
10:35 not sure a prototype is enough for that, unfortunately
10:35 homunq I do not think that we should do the old one if the *only* reason is GSoC schedule and prior commitment
10:36 tomeu silbe: your redesign document talks about lots of things not in the scope of your original gsoc proposal
10:36 what about reducing the scope back?
10:37 from my POV, adding what we need about versions to the current DS shouldn't be an absurd amount of work
10:37 but that's focusing on adding versions, and dropping the rest of the stuff
10:37 silbe tomeu: you mean doing only the API change, but with the old datastore still under the hood? that would be an idea...
10:38 tomeu silbe: yeah, though maybe not the new API as we would like most, we may need to make some compromises
10:38 bemasc an incremental API update
10:38 tomeu another way of looking at this, is implementing what you explain in the redesign document in several steps
10:38 the first one being the bare minimum we need about versions
10:39 that should play well with the gsoc as well
10:39 homunq silbe, do you think you could do this within GSoC time?
10:39 tomeu as an aside, before we forget, we should check what's the best way to do versioned D-Bus interfaces
10:39 silbe homunq: i guess so. definitely worth a try.
10:40 homunq OK. I think we have to move on now.
10:40 #topic bemasc assimd ...
10:40 silbe tomeu: well, at the very least we could add a function to return a version and name functions with different signatures differently
10:42 homunq bemasc?
10:42 bemasc Hey all.
10:42 Haven't done much in code, apart from fixing a bug.
10:43 I had a long discussion with Eben, planning out how asynchronous collab and merge has to work.  This week I'll draw up a mockup for a necessary UI change, and then start implementing it.
10:44 tomeu silbe: yeah, just remembered I read some best practices somewhere
10:44 bemasc Specifically, a UI change in Glucose, so that when you resume an Activity from the Journal, if there's already a shared instance with the same activity_id, you have the option to merge with them or work on your own.
10:45 homunq if you work on your own, the split is permanent?
10:45 bemasc no
10:45 The activity_id should be preserved, so you get the same choice if you start from the Journal again (and the shared session is still running)
10:46 It occurs to me that an additional option in the "Share With" dropdown might be appropriate as well.
10:46 homunq I'd call that semi-synchronous... true asynch would be if the other person is visible but not running the instance.
10:47 bemasc It's asynchronous because you can go home (no network), work on your own, start your session from the Journal, and merge with the group.
10:47 Currently, there is essentially no support for this.
10:48 homunq yes, it is clearly a big step towards asynchronous
10:48 bemasc sorry. Go home, work, return to school, start from Journal, merge with group.
10:48 homunq but what if there are two people, each goes home and works, then they come back and one starts up again
10:48 no chance to merge because the other one is not running the instance, even though the data is in theory accessible.
10:48 bemasc You're saying you want automatic "pull" for changes?
10:49 Well, maybe once we have Object Sharing we can revisit that problem.
10:49 homunq well, maybe only one more step towards that
10:49 for instance, automatically send that person a notification, "I
10:50 bemasc anyway, that's my status.  I haven't seen assimd for a while.  I hope he writes me a midterm eval...
10:50 homunq m starting again" so they can manually start and you two can sync.
10:50 I think hoping is not good enough.
10:50 bemasc I can send him an e-mail.
10:51 homunq: that's not too far from the current Invitation mechanism.  It would be cool to send invitations to previous participants when resuming a shared session.
10:51 homunq We need a backup plan, too. Do you have anyone else you'd like to have as a mentor?
10:52 bemasc I hadn't given it much thought.
10:53 walterbender can be the bureaucrat and tester for the project :)
10:53 homunq wonders what's up with subzero - I was saving him because bryan was gonna be here but oh well.
10:53 walterbender I want to use it as a developer.
10:53 bemasc walterbender: I'd certainly be happy to provide any development support I can.
10:53 homunq OK. do you think I should just go ahead and reassign you?
10:54 subzero_ sorry, my network...
10:54 walterbender homunq: sure, why not>
10:54 bemasc homunq: I'll send an e-mail to assimd.
10:54 or... ok.
10:54 homunq walterbender: you have power to reassign yourself, right?
10:55 walterbender homunq: I think so... I can dig into my old email...
10:55 bemasc: let's chat afterward. don't want to leave assimd out if he still has time to help
10:55 homunq bemasc: what's your preference, if any? Just switch, or give assimd another chance? I'm OK with both, as long as we don't wait for too long.
10:56 bemasc let's give subzero_ a few minutes.
10:56 homunq OK
10:56 #topic subzero_ bryan
10:57 how are your eyes? There is a chance we could get you a medical extension if you have doctor's note. grrrr network.
10:57 hmm...
10:57 OK, #topic iwikiwi aa
10:58 iwikiwi Hi
10:58 homunq #topic subzero_ bryan
10:58 sorry iwikiwi, best to do subzero1 while we can
10:58 how are your eyes? There is a chance we could get you a medical extension if you have doctor's note. grrrr network.
10:59 iwikiwi homunq: oh, oaky
10:59 subzero__ my last activity (working on it): http://karma.sugarlabs.org/adding_up_to_10/
11:00 homunq subzero__: how are your eyes? There is a chance we could get you a medical extension if you have doctor's note.
11:01 iwikiwi: I think we'll have to do you in #sugar, can people stay another 10-15 minutes there to wrap up properly, so we can cede the room in 2 minutes?
11:02 iwikiwi homunq: sure, i will be here
11:02 homunq Obviously, it's OK if some people have to take off, but please stay whoever can easily do so.
11:02 silbe homunq: what about #sugar-meeting2 ?
11:03 (instead of #sugar)
11:03 homunq OK, people, please join over there.
11:03 subzero1_ homunq: cna you rad this?
11:03 homunq subzero1_: yes
11:03 subzero1_ sorry again, my network sucks
11:04 homunq did you get my question about your eyes?
11:04 subzero1_: we are moving to #sugar-meeting2
11:04 subzero1_ homunq: ok
11:04 homunq Is the other meeting waiting on this room?
11:06 garycmartin homunq: Sean just mailed the list, not sure the marketing meeting is happening today.
11:07 homunq Oh, OK
11:07 so we'll continue here
11:09 [10:02] <subzero1_> homunq: about my eyes, thanks for asking, I'm getting better
11:09 [10:03] --> lucian_ has joined this channel (n=lucian@sunjammer.sugarlabs.org).
11:09 [10:03] <homunq> subzero1_: do you think you need an extension? If so, do you have documentation? We may be able to swing that...
11:09 [10:03] <homunq> no promises.
11:09 [10:04] <bemasc> argh
11:09 [10:05] <subzero1_> homunq: I'm followint the timeline and the next week I'll be free of school, so I'll have all the time for GSoC and to rest
11:09 [10:05] <subzero1_> homunq: about the documentation, of course I have it, also I understand the situation
11:09 bemasc: ?
11:10 bemasc just complaining about the IRC disorganization.  carry on.
11:11 homunq OK, subzero1_, have you talked to Bryan about evaluations?
11:12 hmmm... his network is really bad, iwikiwi, feel free to jump in. We can multithread this meeting.
11:12 iwikiwi homunq: here or there?
11:13 homunq: sugar side with usb printing *works* and integrates well with the device icon
11:13 bemasc iwikiwi: that's great! using a Print activity?
11:13 iwikiwi bemasc: yep
11:14 homunq link (/me a nag)
11:14 bemasc iwikiwi: will it work with sugar 0.84?
11:14 iwikiwi bemasc: I havent checked with on the XO yet, but works great with jhbuild
11:14 homunq: http://git.sugarlabs.org/proje[…]/read/repos/print sorry, couldnt blog it
11:15 hopes someone can look into their logs for tinypic urls
11:15 bemasc iwikiwi: you should check if it works with Strawberry.  If it does, I think you should immediately do a release (version 1).
11:15 iwikiwi sorry again, using a freshly formatted system
11:15 bemasc (and talk to the Soas-Fedora devs about getting the CUPS dependencies in, etc.)
11:16 iwikiwi bemasc: what is strawberry?
11:16 bemasc: yep, will do that
11:16 bemasc iwikiwi: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/S[…]_Stick/Strawberry
11:17 IMHO, printing via direct USB connection is a very important feature, and getting that released, tested, documented, and publicized should be a priority.
11:17 iwikiwi bemasc: okay, I will work on getting it on strawberry
11:18 subzero sorry again...again my network
11:18 iwikiwi bemasc: one glitch atm, I couldnt figure out how to make individual page selections, I will have to talk to gtk+ ppl again about that. Thats the *only* bug
11:18 homunq subzero: go ahead, we are doing you and iwikiwi simultaneously now.
11:18 subzero homunq: ok
11:19 bemasc iwikiwi: ok.
11:19 subzero here is the activity in what I'm working now: http://karma.sugarlabs.org/adding_up_to_10/
11:19 homunq iwikiwi: have you talked to aa about the evaluation?
11:19 iwikiwi homunq: He wanted me to finish up with moodle as well
11:19 subzero Bryan and me are working around i18n
11:20 silbe subzero: is it supposed to work outside Sugar?
11:20 iwikiwi and Ive just started on moodle, and im working on very few features for it, as im low on time
11:20 subzero silbe: some parts, at this point yes.
11:21 iwikiwi homunq: also as martin and aa were against it, the assigment modules enhancement to have a printing feature was dropped
11:21 subzero our objective is to load the text, images and sound according to the localization
11:21 iwikiwi so im working on something new
11:21 silbe subzero: doesn't for me (iceweasel on debian lenny), it's just static and i see text like "choose an option: choose an option" :-/
11:22 subzero at this point just the text works
11:22 silbe ah, ok, so it actually works like designed
11:23 iwikiwi homunq: were we supposed to finish everything by now?
11:23 subzero silbe: about the image, you must see some objects (figures)
11:24 silbe subzero: i see three yellow, two white and two black "boxes", all empty
11:24 subzero silbe: about the text, it must be in spanish, english, hebrew and nepalli (not yet )
11:24 silbe subzero: can confirm the text works
11:24 homunq iwikiwi: this is midterm evaluations. You should be on track with your original schedule. That usually does not mean 100% finished, but certainly more than half of features touched.
11:25 subzero silbe: damn, let me check it
11:25 homunq subzero and iwikiwi: the point is, we need to be 100% sure that aa and bryan are filling out an evaluation of your status
11:25 silbe subzero: the CSS seems to contain some errors (at least iceweasel complains about it), but probably nothing that should cause it to fail showing images)
11:26 subzero homunq: I got an email from Bryan yesterday about our meeting
11:26 homunq the deadline is "before monday", when Google says "before" they mean it.
11:27 subzero homunq: monday 13th I think
11:27 iwikiwi homunq: you mean you have to send the evaluations today itself, i thought it was till 13th
11:27 homunq no
11:27 I mean yes. The 13th.
11:28 subzero silbe: I got it, it's my fault I didn't load the activity.js
11:28 homunq iwikiwi, subzero: can you suggest other time(s) to meet with you and your mentors? We need to hear from them to be sure.
11:29 subzero does anyone know why I get an error when sync with gitorious?
11:29 iwikiwi homunq: aa should be available in a few hrs
11:29 silbe subzero: ah, ok. i thought maybe it's an incompatibility. what error do you get with gitorious?
11:29 iwikiwi homunq: at worst he will be available around your night
11:30 subzero I think Bryan will be in #olenepal soon
11:30 also into #sugar
11:31 homunq OK. let's check in again at 1830 UTC today, can you both try to contact your mentors before then if possible so they're there...???
11:31 subzero ok
11:32 iwikiwi 1830 UTC is how many hrs more?
11:32 homunq in 3 hours from right now
11:32 iwikiwi okay
11:33 homunq OK. I think we should wrap up...
11:33 anybody else have anything to say?
11:34 (sorry but we're over time, obviously there are several technical discussions still running and I hope that those continue.
11:34 for this meeting, we can stop if there's no more administrative stuff)
11:35 subzero silbe: thanks for testing
11:36 homunq OK then.
11:36 #endmeeting

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