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#sugar-meeting, 2009-04-06

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
13:00 dfarning good morning FGrose
13:01 FGrose dfarning: Well, it's afternoon for me right now, so good day!
13:01 dfarning so it is.
13:02 FGrose Any one here for Wiki Team?
13:02 erikos FGrose: hi - I have a quick wiki team comment if allowed
13:02 tomeu hi!
13:02 dfarning I just pinged #sugar with a reminder
13:03 erikos s/comment/question
13:03 FGrose #TOPIC Roll Call for until 05 after the hour.
13:04 erikos: go for it
13:04 dfarning erikos; FGrose runs a tight ship:)
13:04 walterbender hi everyone
13:04 dfarning walterbender; welcome back
13:04 erikos FGrose: so in our renames to '_' instead of camel case
13:04 tomeu hi walterbender
13:04 erikos FGrose: we broke links like that to the release notes
13:05 FGrose: which have been published already
13:05 FGrose: i made a redirect for that one - if nobody mind that
13:05 http://sugarlabs.org/go/Develo[…]ases/Sucrose/0.84
13:05 that was the one
13:06 just wanted to note that for certain pages we need redirects - that's all
13:06 FGrose erikos: '_' is required for browser URIs. ' ' space will work on wiki paths
13:06 dfarning erikos; sound good.  I reverted a few and am contacting people to update their links
13:07 erikos dfarning: seen - that you reverted that ;p
13:07 FGrose: ok - that is good
13:07 background again
13:07 dfarning cms, updated www.sugarlbs.org last night!
13:08 if and when you notice breakages let us know so we can get them fixed
13:09 FGrose dfarning: Is cjl around lately?
13:09 cjl not so much
13:09 dfarning FGrose; I have not talked to him since early last week said he would be going out of town for a few days
13:09 cjl here now though
13:09 dfarning cjl, welcome back:)
13:10 cjl :-)
13:10 FGrose cjl: Hi!  Thanks for joining
13:10 #TOPIC Translation
13:10 cjl Thoguht I woudl shopw up for discussion of wiki L10n.
13:10 FGrose cjl: Do we have translators to guide us?
13:11 cjl I actually have mixed feelings on wiki page translation.
13:11 There are the templates used on wiki.l.o , but if you have ever tried them, they suck
13:11 The other major issue is keeping pages in synch when they change so often.
13:11 walterbender should we just use Pootle?
13:12 and git?
13:12 cjl My favored approach is the use of the googleTrnas links.
13:12 dfarning cjl, Have you seen how wikipedia handles translations
13:12 cjl dfarning: For the most part by having completely seprate wikis
13:12 walterbender dfarning: does it? I thought the different language versions were independent, not translations
13:13 cjl I am not convinced that there is a good answer.
13:13 dfarning walterbender; by useing interlanguage links and translation templates many of the popular page are keep in sync.
13:14 cjl Which is part of the reason I favor the machine translation links to the google translation engine.  Good enough for most things, always "synched" to current page version.
13:15 walterbender cjl: +1 nd things where we want real precision, e.g., the download pages, we can use pootle/git
13:15 cjl dfarning: In practice that jsut doesn't happen.  (versions staying synched).  Look at wiki.l.o homepage
13:15 walterbender: I agree tha some highly select and visible pages may be worth tracking via pootle or git.
13:16 walterbender cjl: I think we could come up with a very short list
13:16 cjl I would suggest pootle if hte pages can also be made t obe relatively static
13:16 dfarning Yes, I am aware of the latency issues with syncing between languages:(
13:17 cjl They may reside on a wiki, but they can't change too mcuh if you want decent translation coverage.  It might onyl be a fixed portion of the page that is actually translated.
13:17 walterbender cjl: I would hope that our instructions for installing Sugar will only change slowly, at release points...
13:18 cjl me too
13:18 walterbender cjl: I cannot think of nay other page that is critical to translate
13:20 cjl I'm just trying to be a realist (and maybe coming off as a pessimist).  Getting a page or two of text hosted in Pootle and manually synching a few variations on a wiki page seems possible.  I know relatively little of po2html autromation, it might be worth investigating.
13:21 You would thionk tha HTML is jsut code like python and thqa the tools should be there, but I don't think they are as developed.
13:23 dfarning so we focus on a method of translating a _few_ high value page and handle the rest by google translate?
13:23 FGrose Sounds like that for now
13:23 dfarning download,install...
13:23 cjl The reason for using Pootle (as opposed to just wiki) is that the L10n community tends to go there, but does much less wiki work. So you want to put it in front of them (a fewe pages as you say).
13:24 dfarning: I think that is feasible and realistic
13:25 dfarning is it reasonalbe to the the existing template system to handle a few pages.
13:26 I think if we eliminate a lot of the automation stuff the templates are usefull enough for selecting pages
13:26 cjl dfarning: yes, if someone wiki-wise creates the variations (the directions for doing so in the template are impenetrable). but you still have the issue of not getting L10n folks doing wiki work.
13:26 walterbender I think we are best off using Pootle for the actual translations, however we incorporate them into the wiki
13:27 I wrote some simple scripts to generate pages for l.o using po files... easy enough to replicate for sl.o
13:27 dfarning +1 I thinki I can come a with a simple way to add the key pages manually to pootle
13:28 walterbender; lets try that.
13:28 cjl If you haven't tried it, I would suggest actually trying to walk through doing a new translation using http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Template:Translations in a sandbox page.
13:28 It is pretty ugly.
13:28 walterbender so maybe the first step is to identify some key pages
13:30 dfarning cjl, yes, using the entire translation template system would not be feasiable.
13:30 cjl walterbender: One possible idea is to make these static HTML (but interlinked from wiki).
13:30 dfarning Downloads
13:31 cjl Ther are tools like po2html and html2po that might help
13:31 walterbender cjl: +1
13:31 cjl something like A wiki page in english to capture improvements and dumps off to static HTML versions in other langs.
13:32 walterbender dfarning: downloads will be unstable for another few weeks, I fear...
13:32 cjl It does introduce a curation effort.
13:32 dfarning cjl do you have time to research their usefullness?  I don't understand the process well to make a good assement.
13:33 cjl dfarning: not a lot of time, I'm reaching the end-game of winding down my company here and things are getting a little hectic.
13:33 http://translate.sourceforge.n[…]i/toolkit/html2po
13:34 They are part of the Translate Toolkit (from the makers of Pootle) at translate.za.org
13:34 The folks on #pootle are pretty nice and are friendly to OLPC/Sugar as we have tried to promote their tools and contribute where we could.
13:34 dfarning ok, I will try to set up a test so those of you who know what you are doing can see it it will work:)
13:35 if it will work
13:36 back to walterbender 's request for initiall  high valy and stable pages to test?
13:36 cjl goes afk briefly
13:37 walterbender dfarning: why not start with the home page? www.s.o?
13:37 dfarning ok, I'll have that ready and report back next week.
13:38 FGrose With publication of notes we can call for Translators to take a lead on guiding us with the architecture, etc.
13:38 #TOPIC Copyright
13:40 dfarning Anyone else want to take this one:)
13:40 FGrose Was there ever a page for that?
13:41 This is the OLPC page, http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC:Copyrights
13:42 dfarning FGrose; I can run that by Karen at the SFC.
13:43 FGrose dfarning: That would be great.
13:43 walterbender FGrose: w.sl.o is under a CC Attribution license... what is the problem?
13:43 FGrose walterbender: Just a missing page
13:44 dfarning walterbender; if you click edit their is a broken link at the bottom of the page.
13:44 walterbender FGrose, dfarning: unless we want to change to a different license, I see no reason not to just make a similar page using CC 3.0 and be done with it...
13:45 dfarning: the link at the bottom of our pages works :)
13:45 FGrose #TOPIC Test Wiki
13:45 dfarning walterbender; (see Sugar_Labs:Copyrights for details) is broken for me:(
13:46 FGrose; we can set up wiki-testing.sugarlabs.org on sunjammer.  Will you have time to maintain it?
13:47 FGrose dfarning: I don't have infrastructure experience, but with a sandbox would use it as a learning environment
13:48 cjl reads scroll-back
13:48 dfarning ok, I'll set it up this afternoon, It will take a few days for the DNS to propagate.
13:49 FGrose; we can establish an account on Sunjammer for you via email
13:50 dfarning; anything else??
13:50 FGrose dfarning: OK, that sounds good for now
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13:51 #endmeeting

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