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#sugar-meeting, 2009-03-24

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
11:02 SeanDaly Hi Caroline!
11:03 Walter is in ttransit won't be with us today
11:03 mchua SeanDaly: wrists hanging in there... I think i can abuse them for an hour if I rest most of the rest of the day :)
11:03 SeanDaly mchua: use brainwaves don't type too much
11:03 OK I want to get started because a lot to cover
11:04 Sorry I was last-minutes with the agenda lots of activity this past week
11:04 First off the run of 100 branded USB sticks
11:05 I had some assistance from Anne Gentle whose friend annd neighbor works for a proomo priinting place
11:05 and has a supplier for USB keys and will do them at cost and in time for FOSSVT
11:06 At $9 per unit more than I planned but I ran out of time to work with unknowns and be 100% sure we would make the date
11:06 For this price they will preload the SoaS image of our choice
11:07 they claim to have tested a bootable GNU/Linux image fingers crossed they can do it, it's new for them
11:07 There will be 3 color variations on a white key, echoing Christian's site
11:07 tomeu is here
11:07 SeanDaly with colored lanyards (non-branded)
11:07 hi tomeu
11:07 caroline sounds great!
11:08 mchua Gorgeous.
11:08 erikos sounds nice indeed to have different colors
11:08 SeanDaly they will be delivered directly to Caroline target date is April 7th
11:08 Yes I am very pleased there will be three colors
11:08 erikos SeanDaly: when do we have to ship the image for the stick?
11:08 SeanDaly erikos: I will know tomorrow
11:09 erikos SeanDaly: ok
11:09 SeanDaly logo colors will probbably be related to lanyard colors, final choice not made yet
11:09 jt4sugar Are we including testing instructions on stick
11:09 SeanDaly I'd like to get a photo with the three coolored sticks in the foreground and 3 machines running it in the background :-)
11:10 erikos tomeu: i guess this release is why we need soas-1
11:10 tomeu: by the 7th of april - ~3 days
11:10 tomeu erikos: yup, looks like that
11:10 SeanDaly jt4sugar: I would very much like to, re item 7 on the agenda
11:11 caroline can we get browse to have sugarlabs.org as a home page?
11:11 SeanDaly caroline: +1
11:11 erikos caroline: i guess that is doable
11:11 takes notes
11:12 SeanDaly Re SoaS-1 or -2: my idea was that FOSSVT would be a ttrampoline to annnounce "official beta" of SoaS-2
11:12 and renew call for testers
11:12 of course, being careful not to oversell
11:13 erikos SeanDaly: i want to discuss this a bit with sebastian
11:13 SeanDaly: not sure - what the best choice is at the moment
11:13 SeanDaly: but soas-2 (F11) is still very rough
11:13 SeanDaly erikos: yes of course if it is too early to do a press push we can wait
11:13 erikos SeanDaly: and integration work is hard - ask tomeu :/
11:14 SeanDaly: at the moment - *we* are the testers for F11 :)
11:14 tomeu erikos: the upside is that we don't have any pending bugs on soas-2, right?
11:14 SeanDaly To be clear, soft press release= published on our press page, "hard" press release = PR Newswire
11:14 erikos SeanDaly: yes - sure
11:14 mchua caroline: oy - i dropped the ball on fossvt, should I still try to go since I'm mostly only useful in person these days?
11:15 erikos tomeu: hmm can you rephrase?
11:15 SeanDaly We could go with another angle:  working on making feedback very easy
11:15 caroline yes you should try to go
11:15 tomeu erikos: that we have solved (or know how to solve) all bugs that were found in soas-2
11:15 mchua i'm happy to keep visiting the soas schools with caroline to test f11 and etc if that's helpful - just learning that i need help typing bug reports :)
11:15 caroline and try to have some time beforehand to help us get ready.
11:16 tomeu mchua: find a small cousin to be your secretary
11:16 SeanDaly re FOSSVT and LinuxTag etc., I'd like to share a secret to success booth marketing
11:16 tomeu you may need tons of ice cream, though
11:16 SeanDaly "balloons"
11:17 tomeu heh
11:17 SeanDaly Brandable and attracts kids (& grownups)
11:17 erikos and a clown to hand them out?
11:17 SeanDaly inexpensive, suppliers everywhere
11:17 erikos wants to be the clown
11:17 SeanDaly I'd love to be the clown but i'm afraid I won't make this one
11:17 mchua can tie balloon animals
11:17 erikos mchua: whoooo
11:17 mchua tomeu: ooo. I might try that.
11:18 SeanDaly mchua: another secret ttalent!
11:18 tomeu at fisl 2007 I had a bad experience with giving away olpc tshirts, at some point the people wanting tshirts displaced the ones interested in olpc
11:18 SeanDaly Black logo on any color balloon should look fine
11:18 erikos tomeu: you mean all the bugs are in rawhide at the moment - not ours?
11:18 SeanDaly balloons cheaper than swag :-)
11:18 and MUCH cheaper than USB sticks :-)
11:18 erikos tomeu: good point
11:18 tomeu erikos: no, that we don't have any known integration bugs in soas-2
11:19 erikos tomeu: yeah - it is not in our hand really
11:19 SeanDaly balloons: tough choice is between helium (kids prefer) and air (budget preferes)
11:19 tomeu iptables, policykit, NM, write, etc. solved them already
11:19 erikos tomeu: solved-->hacked ;)
11:20 tomeu right ;)
11:20 mchua balloons for those who play with sugar - try our soas station, get a balloon
11:20 caroline is this for a specific conference?
11:20 SeanDaly mchua: +1
11:20 tomeu cool
11:20 SeanDaly Caroline: it could be for any conference what about FOSSVT? too serious? :-)
11:21 caroline we won't have a booth
11:21 we have a talk
11:21 so not applicable.
11:21 SeanDaly caroline: my confusion
11:22 caroline: although if you get on the podium with soome balloons everybody there will know Sugar is fun :D
11:22 agenda item 2 we had spoken about a "developer press release"
11:22 erikos, tomeu, do we have a message to get out?
11:23 caroline on the SoaS image for FOSSVT can we include IRC defaulted to #sugar?
11:23 erikos SeanDaly: you mean the OLPCNews article?
11:23 tomeu SeanDaly: not sure I heard about that before
11:24 mchua http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/M[…]lopers/Sugar_0.84 ?
11:24 tomeu caroline: on this soas-2, it goes to #sugar and #olpc-help
11:24 SeanDaly erikos: no, we had talked a few weeks ago about informing developers where we are since the "public" press release for parents & teachers was very general
11:24 mchua can we schedule and announce some "new dev start parties" on irc and plug them at the end of that announcement?
11:24 tomeu SeanDaly: so about what has been released, not where are we going?
11:24 SeanDaly I'm not sure if we need to do a soft release like that
11:24 erikos SeanDaly: well we could use the release notes for that
11:25 SeanDaly tomeu: could be
11:25 mchua some people really need a "show up here at X time and Y place and we'll get you going" thing, esp folks new to OSS
11:25 tomeu btw, gnome does a press release every time they make a release? I think I have never seen one
11:25 SeanDaly again, i'm not saying we need that, but if our press page has a developer-specific release talking distribution tech perhaps it could help us with distributions & oems?
11:27 erikos tomeu: what we could/should do is to announce the release page
11:27 tomeu: on the ml - the blogs etc
11:27 tomeu: that we have not done so yet
11:27 tomeu SeanDaly: hmm, so who is the audience and what do we want to communicate?
11:28 SeanDaly: the article of olpc news was intended to show how sugar moves towards engaging people in modifying and creating their own tools
11:28 might not be the same idea, right?
11:28 erikos: yeah, I guess you are right
11:29 SeanDaly grrr intterrupted by phone
11:30 erikos tomeu: we could as well wait until our update release is out though
11:30 SeanDaly If we don't have a message to get out at the moment, we can save the effort :D but the original conncern was that we were addressing the public to be rreassuring & informative, but not out partners in development
11:30 s/out/our
11:31 tomeu I see
11:31 SeanDaly Right now I'm leaning towards FOSSVT as the next release
11:31 s/release/press release
11:31 depending on what we want to say, can be with or without PR Newswire
11:31 tomeu I have my mind pretty much filled up right now, but if someone thinks we should address to some people with something technical, can give a hand
11:32 jt4sugar The best target audience would be University Computer Science Students all have projects to do-Talk about Sugar, Python and the possibilities of Collaboration
11:32 SeanDaly Actually Ii think organizing feedback in a useful & manageable way is more urgent
11:32 tomeu SeanDaly: so the audience would be "partners in development"? who would that people be?
11:32 SeanDaly developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers,
11:33 tomeu generic developers? ;)
11:33 SeanDaly keep in mind I don't know about paddling upstream vs. downstream
11:33 caroline Linux developes, game developers, python developers, VMWare developers, people who think BIOS on computes s facinating...
11:33 we need to diversify a bit
11:33 tomeu I guess activity developers are our most consistent development community
11:33 SeanDaly But in my mind this is part of how we get included (& promoted!) on distributions
11:34 jt4sugar Budding developers at Universities throughout the world-Get them a Starter Pack
11:34 tomeu right now I mean, in the future this should change
11:34 SeanDaly with activities.sugarlabs.org we will shortly be ready to scale in terms of number of Activities
11:34 caroline maybe a press release when we hit 100 activities? or 250?
11:35 SeanDaly I've been impressed with the number of GSoC applicants
11:35 caroline When/how do you want to publicize our pilot with GPA?
11:35 SeanDaly caroline: +1 great idea - an easy-to-remember milestone
11:35 caroline: which one iis that?
11:36 caroline Gardner Pilot Academy in alston our SoaS pilot
11:36 SeanDaly caroline: ah yes 3rd time you've reminded me GPA=Gardner
11:36 Best way I think is with film, photos
11:36 Youtube
11:37 We should be planning a countdown to SoaS v1.0
11:37 mchua notes there are 23 mins left
11:37 ;)
11:37 caroline Should we wait till we have SoaS runing there or do one as is on the school?
11:37 SeanDaly With an event or press release of news at least every 6 weeks
11:37 caroline: I feel it's like the USB sticks: even something basic will be seed to go further afterwards
11:38 caroline sounds good. I will coordinate with you offline
11:38 SeanDaly The "images" i would like to see on Youtube are: class of kids, 2 or 3 different machines running Sugar, kids collaborating
11:38 Closeup of Sugar screen
11:39 OK I'm looking at the clock on item 4 of the agenda, the printable PDF
11:39 caroline I'm going to ask Christian if he can assist me with that
11:40 basically I just want to condense some text from the static site explaiining Sugar, a Mike Lee photo, a screenshot
11:40 I want to return to the feedback question but before I do,
11:41 We need to choose an update to the phrase: "Spin-off of the "Sugar" desktop environment to another project."
11:41 Concise
11:41 for example, "Makers of the Sugar Learning Platform for children"
11:42 tomeu that's nice
11:42 SeanDaly ^^that's descriptive, but it's dull
11:42 tomeu is dull
11:42 SeanDaly Some help please for a snappy poppy phrase which will induce clicking ! :-)
11:42 tomeu finest cookers of Sugar
11:43 SeanDaly or maybe a first dull phrase, then a crackiling one
11:43 caroline Crystalizers of Sugar
11:43 SeanDaly Could be a call to action: "Kids love to learn with Sugar, try it on your computer"
11:45 Or fantastical:  "from the magic land of free software"
11:45 or down-to-earth: "Sugar is used by hundreds of thousands of children every schools day"
11:46 Please send suggestions to the list, Luke said he would help us get that indexed
11:46 any other topics before I return to "feedback"?
11:46 jt4sugar Sugar: Where Learning to Learn is Sweet-try it out!
11:47 SeanDaly jt4sugar: I like that
11:48 by the way I plan to contact the Chicago and Co. Cork Ireland schools who will be working together this fall
11:48 tomeu I hope we can choose one quickly
11:48 anything will be better than what we have now
11:48 SeanDaly tomeu: if we can't we'll just go with factual even that will be bettter than what it is today
11:49 although I am very pleased at how reliable our referencing has become, the media launch did that i think
11:49 OK re feedback: I was looking at Survey Monkey
11:49 tomeu google has always indexed very well olpc and sugarlabs sites
11:50 SeanDaly tomeu: yes the challenge we had was that tthe wiki was better referenced than the static intro
11:50 tomeu I remember trying to google for apis we use in sugar, and find first indexed sugar code than the api docs
11:50 SeanDaly and, we still need to work on improving navigation between the 3 sections
11:51 jt4sugar SeanDaly: Did they survey the 600 Uruguay Teachers?
11:51 SeanDaly Survey Monkey is a cheap SaS solution for taking questionnaires as short or long as you like
11:51 jt4sugar: my understanding from Walter is that hasn't been done yet
11:52 jt4sugar SeanDaly: ok
11:52 SeanDaly Survey Monkey has been used by NGOs and big companies, since fast & easy to deploy
11:52 caroline survey monkey +1 for easy,
11:52 SeanDaly and data exportable
11:53 actually the "easy" part is the questionnaire
11:53 the hard part is handling the data in a useful way
11:53 jt4sugar Does it have translation abilities?
11:54 SeanDaly jt4sugar: you mean multilanguage questions, or translation of data?
11:54 I'd be surprised if translation of data was in there
11:55 A "brute-force" approach could be: get a few hundred or more responses in several languages,
11:55 and index by weighted synonyms such as "boot" or "freeze"
11:55 Another approach: upload of a logfile?
11:56 If easy enough for tester, could be an easy-to-parse source of info across configs
11:57 I don't want to directly connect web-facing feedback to us,
11:57 jt4sugar SeanDaly: since many Teachers using Sugar speak Spanish at the moment this is important to think about
11:57 SeanDaly but to gather lots of data and "distill" it into findingd
11:57 s/findingd/findings/
11:58 For example, when I boot SoaS on my French keyboards it types qwerty I need to type blind
11:58 tomeu several people from deployments have offered to summarize and translate the feedback from there
11:58 SeanDaly but I'm not sure how or whom to tell about that
11:58 tomeu not yet from .uy, though
11:58 http://sugarlabs.org/go/DeploymentTeam/Places
11:59 I hope we can process manually that feedback, it can be invaluable
11:59 SeanDaly tomeu: if we can find a few hardy souls willing to help us compile questions
11:59 tomeu hmm, I think I saw a good set of questions already?
11:59 SeanDaly We can say upfront that although we cannot respond to each report, assistance is invaluable
12:00 in the backoffice if we have a fairly usable way to stock the data we can already do loys of stuff with text searches, tagging, starring for interest level, etc.
12:00 s/loys/lots/
12:00 tomeu SeanDaly: asking which are the 5 worst issues in sugar, the 5 best things and the 5 most pressing missing features, would be already quite good
12:00 SeanDaly tomeu: +1
12:01 tomeu if they get to write an essay each, will be very hard to get useful data from there
12:01 (though could do lovely stories)
12:01 SeanDaly And, "what did you want to do with Sugar that you found difficult or impossible?"
12:01 jt4sugar We should think of two types of surveys 1. Teacher/Student-Activities use/Lesson plans  2. Software testing-Technical survey
12:01 tomeu yup
12:01 jt4sugar: actually, hpachas-PE said that in peru they are working on a testing protocol
12:02 SeanDaly tomeu: I believe very important to have freeform field because that's where people really express frustration, admiration, etc.
12:02 tomeu SeanDaly: that's fine, but maybe we won't get that info summarized and translated
12:02 SeanDaly Best-practice surveys are multiple-choice for easy data analysis reporting with freeform at the end
12:02 hpachas-PE tomeu, yes
12:02 tomeu, te envio nuestro protocolo
12:03 SeanDaly Again, I'm not suggesting systelatic analysis
12:03 tomeu hpachas-PE: awesome!
12:03 SeanDaly s/systelatic/systematic
12:03 hpachas-PE tomeu, listo , lo tienes en tu mail
12:04 SeanDaly My concept is: we get data - we thank for data - we run cursory analysis by e.g. keywords or multiple-choice answers - we look at freeform to see if patterns emerge
12:04 * I wish I spoke Spanish
12:04 on my list for next year :-)
12:05 For action, tomeu perhaps we coould get in sync concerning what's being done in UY and PE?
12:05 and liaising with country contacts
12:06 I have no doubt deployments want us to listen
12:06 mchua Do we need olpc-sur weekly list summaries again?
12:06 SeanDaly And, what they want to tell us may surprise us :-)
12:06 mchua: sorry not sure what that was?
12:07 tomeu SeanDaly: yup, though walter is the best informed one, I think
12:07 mchua There is a Spanish language class in Boston looking for a way to help, and I can see if they would bite. (And others may know other Spanish classes that would bite.)
12:07 tomeu mchua: I think it would be great
12:07 SeanDaly I'll be seeing Walter in Paris in a week he will be able to debrief me better than e-mail
12:07 jt4sugar Need Use Survey:How are you using Sugar? What activities are you using? To teach what subjects? How do you use the collaboration features of Sugar?
12:07 tomeu mchua: also olpc-uruguay, etc
12:07 mchua SeanDaly: olpc-sur = spanish language discussion list, many uy & pe teachers
12:07 tomeu: ahh, yes - any others?
12:08 SeanDaly mchua +1 for Spanish class they could be very useful
12:08 can anyone point me to the oolpc mailing lists page?
12:08 tomeu mchua: I would check which ones in http://lists.laptop.org/ have traffic, I'm only in olpc-sur
12:09 mchua tomeu: will do.
12:09 cjl lists.laptop.org
12:09 SeanDaly cjl: thank you
12:09 Google had 3 different links
12:10 OK everybody I'm going to wind it down unless there is anyything else?
12:10 going once...
12:10 going twice...
12:11 #endmeeting

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