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| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 11:37 | dsd_ | we are not much further than booting F11+sugar on XO, with many issues yet to be resolved |
| 11:37 | walterbender | #TOPIC enumerate the deployment relevant differences between the XO builds and F11 |
| 11:37 | dsd_ | and many things yet to be found |
| 11:37 | cjb | dsd_: good point |
| 11:37 | walterbender | dsd_: so let's start getting them written down |
| 11:37 | dsd_ | its in early stages |
| 11:38 | cjb | we're going to be filing bugs in F11 on the Red Hat bugzilla, and already have some there |
| 11:38 | dsd_ | walterbender: my point is that while we know some of the issues, things are so early on that we dont really have an idea of what more there is coming... |
| 11:38 | walterbender | dsd_: I think cjb's point is let's start by enumerating what we know |
| 11:38 | dsd_ | ok |
| 11:39 | walterbender | cjb: how are the F11 bugs tagged? |
| 11:39 | cjb | dsd_: I think it'd be a useful exercise to go ahead and assume the basic integration stuff does get fixed, and then see where that leaves us |
| 11:39 | tomeu | I guess we can distinguish between missing features and bugs |
| 11:40 | dsd_ | ok |
| 11:40 | agreed | |
| 11:40 | tomeu | bugs are more unknown than missing features |
| 11:40 | cjb | walterbender: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/sh[…]bug.cgi?id=461806 |
| 11:40 | walterbender | cjb: thanks |
| 11:41 | cjb | ok. so, let's assume we have a stock F11 install sitting on an XO with GNOME and Sugar, and there are no bugs (!), but plenty of missing features |
| 11:41 | what are the missing features? | |
| 11:41 | dsd_ | mesh |
| 11:41 | power management | |
| 11:41 | library | |
| 11:41 | some activities, i think | |
| 11:41 | tomeu | rainbow |
| 11:42 | olpc-update | |
| 11:42 | dsd_ | activity updater (its present, i think, but it wont work for activities that are RPM-installed) |
| 11:42 | customization key | |
| 11:42 | lease security and activation | |
| 11:44 | walterbender | dsd_: can you remind me what "library" means? |
| 11:44 | dsd_ | content bundles |
| 11:44 | which you can open from the browse homepage | |
| 11:44 | .xol | |
| 11:44 | for textbooks and so on | |
| 11:44 | walterbender | dsd_: .xols work, but I suppose you mean installing them on the browse homepage... |
| 11:45 | tomeu | hi .py :) |
| 11:45 | cjb | or maybe we can say "a portal for browsing installed content, and the content itself" |
| 11:45 | dsd_ | another: the XO OS reads the locale and keyboard info from MFG data, pretty sure fedora doesnt do that yet |
| 11:45 | tomeu | walterbender: yeah, that's the only missing piece, afaik |
| 11:45 | dsd_ | walterbender: is there another way of accessing installed content? |
| 11:45 | walterbender | dsd_: the journal |
| 11:45 | dsd_ | apart from typing in the path |
| 11:45 | ah ok | |
| 11:46 | thats not quite as major as i thought then, but still yes, the portal is a missing feature | |
| 11:46 | walterbender | dsd_: there is at present a discussion about what the best way to go forward is... |
| 11:46 | dsd_ | yep |
| 11:46 | cjb | ul-warning |
| 11:46 | keyboard special keys | |
| 11:46 | tomeu | dsd_: basically, we just miss the make_index script to get back to 0.82 functionality |
| 11:46 | cjb | (from dsd's list earlier) |
| 11:47 | walterbender | removable media in the Journal |
| 11:47 | cjb | I'll collate these into a pastebin or something |
| 11:47 | walterbender: good one, thanks | |
| 11:47 | tomeu | walterbender: that's more of an integration bug |
| 11:47 | walterbender | has anyone tried using Record? |
| 11:47 | cjb | that's okay, some of these are integration bugs |
| 11:47 | tomeu | works in ubuntu, don't know why not in soas1 |
| 11:47 | dsd_ | i have to admit to not actually trying sugar 0.84 or F11-XO yet..although i have been keeping a close eye on things |
| 11:47 | cjb | walterbender: no, but if it doesn't work, I would call that a bug |
| 11:48 | tomeu | yeah, probably integration, due to gstreamer stuff |
| 11:48 | dsd_ | make sure to be trying v60 and not v59 |
| 11:48 | v59 depends on broken gstreamer behaviour which is now fixed | |
| 11:48 | v60 depends on gstreamer doing as it should :) | |
| 11:49 | walterbender | dsd_: yeah. I was trying v59 :( |
| 11:49 | dsd_ | fwiw, the new gstreamer makes record much more responsive in live video mode |
| 11:49 | very impressive | |
| 11:49 | much less latency | |
| 11:50 | cjb | http://pastie.org/422048 |
| 11:50 | walterbender | it would be good to get a handle on the missing activities and understand why they wont work |
| 11:50 | cjb | hpachas-PE: |
| 11:50 | walterbender | dsd_: do you have such a list? |
| 11:50 | cjb | Por favor, vuelva a fin de esta lista en orden de importancia de cada elemento es, y nos devuelva un enlace actualizado? |
| 11:51 | dsd_ | walterbender: nope, sorry |
| 11:51 | cjb | the soas folks might |
| 11:51 | hpachas-PE | cjb, no entendi |
| 11:51 | cjb | since they'll be not working there either |
| 11:51 | dsd_: want to try a translation? :) | |
| 11:52 | walterbender | cjb: I have not run across any yet, except that some activities don't work 100% |
| 11:52 | cjb | hpachas-PE: http://pastie.org/422048 .. Quiero ver cómo cada feature importante es |
| 11:52 | walterbender | e.g., write won't share (but only on Fedora) |
| 11:52 | cjb | hpachas-PE: Reordenación de la lista |
| 11:52 | hpachas-PE: claro? | |
| 11:52 | dsd_ | hehe |
| 11:52 | hpachas-PE | cjb, si, ahora estoy revisando |
| 11:53 | cjb | hpachas-PE: gracias! |
| 11:56 | walterbender | so, assuming this list is reasonably comprehensive,... |
| 11:56 | tomeu | doesn't look too bad, does it? |
| 11:57 | dsd_ | some of them raise difficult questions, but its not too bad |
| 11:57 | walterbender | maybe between tomeu and sdziallas and cjb we can get a sense of which ones have no owner |
| 11:58 | tomeu | most are orphan, but not all |
| 11:58 | cjb | hm, I don't think any of them have an owner currently |
| 11:58 | hpachas-PE | cjb, como copia la lista ? |
| 11:58 | tomeu | silbe has stepped up to take care of rainbow |
| 11:58 | walterbender | cjb: do you have any sense of whether OLPC would be able tackle some of them? |
| 11:58 | cjb | hpachas-PE: si |
| 11:59 | hpachas-PE | lo copio aqui? |
| 11:59 | tomeu | hpachas-PE: o en pastebin.be |
| 11:59 | cjb | o en pastie.org :) |
| 11:59 | dsd_ | hpachas-PE: escribe en http://pastie.org/pastes/new |
| 11:59 | walterbender | hpachas-PE: creatar un neuvo pastebin |
| 11:59 | cjb | walterbender: so, it's complicated |
| 11:59 | tomeu | but I'm not sure if silbe has volunteered to make rainbow work on 0.84 or only for 0.86 |
| 11:59 | cjb | if you mean OLPC HQ, then I think I'm the only person left there who has worked on any of these items |
| 12:00 | hpachas-PE | cjb, http://pastebin.be/17383 |
| 12:00 | tomeu | bernie is taking care of "activity update control panel" |
| 12:00 | dsd_ | he's making it upgrade RPM packages? |
| 12:00 | tomeu | but again, I'm not sure how far he intends to go regarding integration with XO |
| 12:00 | cjb | but there's also this new Miami setup with Rodrigo |
| 12:00 | tomeu | dsd_: not that I know of, but maybe we shouldn't ship no activities as rpm? |
| 12:01 | walterbender | cjb: is that more than marketing? |
| 12:01 | cjb | it's still getting started, but I get the impression that the workflow there is that Hernan should tell Rodrigo which features (exactly like this list) are most important to him, and Rodrigo should help find a way to get them implemented |
| 12:01 | tomeu | and I think that the soas guys intend to work on the special keys |
| 12:01 | maybe mtd? | |
| 12:01 | walterbender | cjb: that would be great if they have some resources |
| 12:01 | cjb | walterbender: I think so; there are certainly countries that are willing to pay for software work |
| 12:01 | dsd_ | paraguayeduca hopes to play an active role in getting things on-track.. but i cant say more than that at the moment |
| 12:02 | cjb | hpachas-PE: gracias |
| 12:02 | walterbender | cjb: I would think that countries should do the development in country and share the results... |
| 12:02 | cjb | walterbender: yup |
| 12:02 | hpachas-PE | walterbender, cjb pienso que es importante por que he colocado la lista de esa manera |
| 12:02 | tomeu | dsd_: that sounds nice |
| 12:03 | hpachas-PE | pienso que es importante que ustedes sepan, por que he colocado la lista de esa manera |
| 12:03 | dsd_ | hpachas-PE: si |
| 12:04 | cjb | claro |
| 12:04 | dsd_ | hpachas-PE: puedes explicar algo? |
| 12:04 | hpachas-PE | 1. es importante compartir las actividades , por el enfoque de colaboración que tienen las XO |
| 12:04 | walterbender | hpachas-PE: but with mesh or ejabber? |
| 12:04 | hpachas-PE: do they use school servers? | |
| 12:05 | hpachas-PE | buena pregunta. queremos que las actividades sean compartidas. quizas el medio no necesariamente sea el mesh, pero es el que conocemos y el que OLPC ofrecio |
| 12:05 | walterbender | hpachas-PE: collaboration works fine on F11 (except for the write bug) through a server |
| 12:06 | hpachas-PE | aqui viene un punto adicional entre el XO + XS.. almacenamiento, como se realizará el almacenamiento entre ambos? |
| 12:06 | walterbender | hpachas-PE: I think we want to sort out the Network Manager issues somehow in any case, but collaboration != mesh |
| 12:06 | hpachas-PE | walterbender, de acuerdo. |
| 12:06 | cjb | oh! yes, I missed out "XS backup" from the list |
| 12:07 | hpachas-PE: "XS backup" es importante? | |
| 12:07 | tomeu | talking still about possible owners, maybe pgf would like to continue his work on powerd? |
| 12:07 | hpachas-PE | walterbender, entonces debo entender que el medio de comunicacion y colaboracion no será mesh, sino jabber ? |
| 12:07 | walterbender | tomeu: he seems to be making great progress |
| 12:07 | cjb | tomeu: sure, maybe |
| 12:07 | tomeu: the blocking part of power management isn't an app, though | |
| 12:08 | it's the kernel support | |
| 12:08 | (ohm runs fine on F11 too) | |
| 12:08 | tomeu | I see |
| 12:08 | cjb | (but not if it doesn't have a kernel to talk to) |
| 12:08 | walterbender | hpachas-PE: si. jabber es bueno en F11 |
| 12:08 | dsd_ | hpachas-PE: sin mesh, necesitas una servidor con ejabberd (por ejemplo XS) y puntos de aceso wifi |
| 12:08 | cjb | our PM stuff didn't go into the upstream kernel |
| 12:08 | tomeu | cjb: but I guess we are not restricted to a clean fedora kernel, right? |
| 12:08 | dsd_: what about salut? | |
| 12:08 | cjb | tomeu: we should consider what happens if we are, and if we aren't, I think |
| 12:08 | dsd_ | tomeu: good point |
| 12:08 | walterbender | cjb +1 |
| 12:09 | cjb | but you're right, we could take F11 and replace its kernel with OLPC's 2.6.25 |
| 12:09 | this has been done already, by ShanghaiScott | |
| 12:09 | but I haven't tried it yet | |
| 12:09 | walterbender | cjb: buy how long will OLPC be maintaining kernels? |
| 12:09 | hpachas-PE | entonces tenemos esta arquitectura--- solo XO -- (mesh) .. con XO+XS (ejabber) is correct? |
| 12:09 | dsd_ | i think its a bad direction, but i've argued before and dont think i should argue more without stepping up hehe |
| 12:09 | walterbender | ^buy^but |
| 12:09 | cjb | dsd_: go on? I'm pretty sure we're all gonna agree with you |
| 12:10 | dsd_ | hpachas-PE: perdon, cometí un error |
| 12:10 | walterbender | dsd_: are you referring to the kernel? |
| 12:10 | dsd_ | hpachas-PE: sin mesh, hay 2 opciones |
| 12:10 | cjb | walterbender: well, it's not maintained; we laid off our kernel developers. But it happens to still be new enough to work with F11, even though it's four releases old. |
| 12:10 | dsd_ | 1. red de wifi, con puntos de access *solo* (no es bueno si hay muchos laptops) |
| 12:11 | 2. como (1) pero con una servidor con ejabberd | |
| 12:11 | walterbender | cjb: but it isn't a long-term viable approacjh, |
| 12:11 | cjb | walterbender: correct |
| 12:11 | tomeu | hpachas-PE: hay una tercera alternativa: los XOs pueden colaborar sin un servidor si estan conectados al mismo punto de acceso wifi |
| 12:11 | dsd_ | (2) es mejor, pero se necesita más infraestructura |
| 12:11 | cjb | walterbender: almost everything's upstream, which is why the F11 kernel works fairly well, but power management is the missing piece. |
| 12:11 | tomeu | cjb: I guess getting them accepted upstream is a lot of work, but how much work is rebasing them to newer releases? |
| 12:11 | dsd_ | tomeu: no, that as my (1) |
| 12:11 | *was | |
| 12:12 | tomeu | dsd_: oh, true, wasn't referring to your list, but to hernan's |
| 12:12 | cjb | tomeu: since we're down to just power management, it's actually a fairly clean patch |
| 12:12 | hpachas-PE | resumiendo --- 1- solo Xo, comunicación via mesh, o AP (supongo que lo selecciono por un click) |
| 12:12 | dsd_ | ah ok |
| 12:12 | cjb | so there are actually two options here, for getting power management: |
| 12:12 | * replace Fedora's kernel with ours | |
| 12:12 | hpachas-PE | 2.- XO +XS, jabber (mas infraestructura |
| 12:12 | tomeu | cjb: wow, doesn't sounds too bad |
| 12:12 | cjb | * prepare the minimal patch that adds PM to Fedora's kernel, and make that kernel |
| 12:12 | dsd_ | hpachas-PE: exactamente |
| 12:13 | walterbender | cjb: how realistic is #2? |
| 12:13 | hpachas-PE | para 1, cuantas XO pueden estar conectadas? |
| 12:13 | pgf | has cjb said #2 yet? |
| 12:13 | dsd_ | hpachas-PE: con mesh, aproximalmente 10-15. con AP, más, pero no sé exactamente |
| 12:14 | walterbender | hpachas-PE: what youwe lose is the XO-XO with no AP... |
| 12:14 | dsd_ | no muchos |
| 12:14 | cjb | pgf: the two bullet points |
| 12:14 | pgf | okay. wasn't sure. |
| 12:14 | hpachas-PE | el rendimiento a bajado. antes solo con XO llegabamos a 30 |
| 12:14 | cjb | dsd_: do you want to have a crack at answering that? |
| 12:14 | hpachas-PE | sin necesidad de AP |
| 12:15 | dsd_ | cjb: which question? |
| 12:15 | cjb | (how realistic it is to prepare a 2.6.29 patch that adds olpc-pm, and maybe the geode gpio driver) |
| 12:15 | (as opposed to replacing the whole kernel) | |
| 12:15 | dsd_ | i dont understand.. what use is a .patch for users? |
| 12:15 | they need a whole kernel, compiled | |
| 12:16 | cjb | I mean, as opposed to replacing the whole kernel with our old 2.6.25 |
| 12:16 | we would compile it | |
| 12:16 | and ship a kernel RPM | |
| 12:16 | dsd_ | ah |
| 12:16 | well i certainly cringe at the idea of using 2.6.25 | |
| 12:16 | i definitely like the sound of something closer to fedora | |
| 12:16 | cjb | walterbender: it's hard to answer; it's 0% probably if no-one works on it, and ~90% probable if a real kernel hacker spends up to a week on it, I'd say |
| 12:16 | dsd_ | but my opnion is that you should stay well away from making any non-upstream kernel modifications |
| 12:17 | cjb | dsd_: if we do that, we don't get PM |
| 12:17 | dsd_ | and preferably you should stay away from making any modifications at all, but ask the fedora people to make the already-upstream modifications |
| 12:17 | walterbender | dsd_: do you think that maintaining a few kernel patches is the sort of thing Paraguay would be willing to take on? |
| 12:17 | (among others of course) | |
| 12:17 | dsd_ | then we dont have PM until we do the proper work needed for it to be ready |
| 12:17 | hpachas-PE | siguiendo con la explicación, he considerado las llaves de activación casi al final de la lista, debido a que el Servidor XS debe enviar las llaves de activación |
| 12:17 | cjb | dsd_: preparing a patch against 2.6.29 would be part of that work |
| 12:17 | since it's never been submitted | |
| 12:17 | dsd_ | ok |
| 12:17 | cjb | so I think there's a middle ground |
| 12:18 | prepare the patch, submit the patch, start responding to criticism | |
| 12:18 | Fedora would probably even take it at that point | |
| 12:18 | but this is post-F11 | |
| 12:18 | dsd_ | i think you should ship F11 without PM, unless someone manages to get the code upstream and then backported into fedora in time |
| 12:18 | walterbender | hpachas-PE: quel % escolas ultilizar XS? |
| 12:18 | cjb | dsd_: the latter is impossible |
| 12:18 | dsd_ | and i think you should never apply, or ask fedora to apply non-upstream patches |
| 12:19 | cjb | dsd_: well, that's just another way of saying you don't care about power management in the next ~9 months |
| 12:19 | hpachas-PE | walterbender, 1. mayores a 40 XO, 2, con electricidad |
| 12:19 | cjb | of course we should never want to do it |
| 12:19 | dsd_ | cjb: the aim is of course that someone does the work to get it upstream |
| 12:19 | so i dont think you can put a timeframe on that | |
| 12:19 | but yes, you're right, i dont care about any feature unless it is upstream | |
| 12:20 | i think you are crazy to plan otherwise | |
| 12:20 | walterbender | hpachas-PE: y % escolas con AP? |
| 12:20 | dsd_ | since you'll end up wasting time that you could put towards development etc |
| 12:21 | cjb | ok |
| 12:21 | hpachas-PE | walterbender, si existe un XS, tendra su AP |
| 12:21 | walterbender | dsd_: the model we had been working on (when I was still at OLPC) was to work on things we hoped would be upstream, but not expect everythign would start there) |
| 12:21 | cjb | dsd_: so, if I extrapolate from your suggestion |
| 12:21 | dsd_ | however, i dont think i am in a position to dictate, because i am not contributing :( |
| 12:21 | cjb | dsd_: if power management is important to Hernan, he should avoid F11 |
| 12:21 | hpachas-PE | este es el requerimiento que se hizo a OLPC respecto al server http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Feat[…]on_lease_security |
| 12:21 | dsd_ | walterbender: yeah, and i think that model was OK when there were a decent number of salaried employees |
| 12:21 | not now | |
| 12:22 | cjb | dsd_: and should try to do helpful things (such as just announcing that it's important to him) towards getting it upstream for F12 |
| 12:22 | walterbender | dsd_: agreed. |
| 12:22 | cjb | (or funding work on it) |
| 12:22 | dsd_ | cjb: yes |
| 12:22 | cjb | ok |
| 12:22 | and we know mesh is in similar (actually, worse) shape | |
| 12:22 | walterbender | or get the work done in Peru or Paraguay... |
| 12:22 | cjb | just not going to work on F11 |
| 12:22 | tomeu | what about 0.84 on F10? |
| 12:22 | cjb | walterbender: dsd's point is that it doesn't have time to make it upstream and back for F11 |
| 12:23 | tomeu: hm, F10 has all the same challenges as F11, I think? I haven't been considering it as an option | |
| 12:23 | dsd_ | fedora will continue to push new F11 packages after F11 is released |
| 12:23 | so i dont think we should rule out having a new NM or kernel after F11 release day | |
| 12:23 | and because we will build spins from latest packages only... | |
| 12:23 | cjb | that's true |
| 12:23 | walterbender | these are some questions for sdziallas |
| 12:23 | dsd_ | however -- i do think the timeframe needed for this work will push us to F12 or beyond |
| 12:24 | hpachas-PE | al tener ese esquema de trabajo en el servidor, el se encargaría de distribuir las llaves , la actualización del software y el backup |
| 12:24 | dsd_ | maybe we'll have mesh and PM beforehand, but there will be other features required, and plenty of testing/bugfixing needed too |
| 12:24 | tomeu | cjb: ok, I forgot 0.82 was based on f9 |
| 12:24 | cjb | tomeu: si :) |
| 12:24 | walterbender | tomeu: I had had that same confusion last week :) |
| 12:25 | cjb | dsd_: that makes sense. (our plan since January has been "start getting things upstream, they probably won't be there in time for F11, but hopefully F12", so this isn't a big shock) |
| 12:26 | tomeu | PM is not so high in hpachas-PE's list, btw |
| 12:26 | cjb | that's true |
| 12:26 | hpachas-PE: | |
| 12:26 | hpachas-PE | cjb, si |
| 12:26 | walterbender | I think mesh might not be as high as collaboration? |
| 12:26 | cjb | ¿por qué no es la power management más importante para usted? |
| 12:27 | hm, both manual power management (sleep) and automatic (suspend) won't work, without the kernel changes | |
| 12:28 | walterbender: that sounds right | |
| 12:28 | hpachas-PE | si el PM va a funcionar como al día de hoy, pienso que esta bien. si aumenta el tiempo de descarga es bueno para nosotros, |
| 12:29 | walterbender | cjb: I would think a laptop that has no way to suspend would be a problem :( |
| 12:29 | hpachas-PE | la pregunta seria, que tanto mejoraria el PM? |
| 12:29 | pgf | why is a newer kernel more important than PM? (not in general, but right now?) |
| 12:29 | cjb | pgf: huh? |
| 12:29 | oh, you mean, why don't we just stick with 2.6.25 | |
| 12:30 | pgf | yes. |
| 12:30 | cjb | I guess that would be a deployment's choice, since the RPM's easily installable |
| 12:30 | the reason not to is that it's unsustainable | |
| 12:30 | pgf | sure, but if there are no known regressions from using 2.6.25, i'd think the choice is clear. |
| 12:30 | (for now) | |
| 12:31 | tomeu | hpachas-PE: el problema es que actualmente F11 no tiene ningun soporte para suspender las maquinas |
| 12:31 | dsd_ | yeah, why dont we stay with sugar 0.82 also, and F9 |
| 12:31 | tomeu | hpachas-PE: asi que probablemente duraran menos tiempo |
| 12:31 | dsd_ | i think its time to move on... |
| 12:31 | tomeu | 0.82 was an awesome release ;) |
| 12:31 | hpachas-PE | tomeu, que tiempo dura la bateria en este nuevo estado? |
| 12:32 | pgf | dsd_: it's not time to move on if loss of features makes it useless. |
| 12:32 | tomeu | cjb: do you know how much time would last the battery with F11? |
| 12:32 | walterbender | tomeu: how impossible would it be to add resume by default to 0.82? |
| 12:32 | tomeu | pgf, dsd_: cannot give that choice to the deployers? |
| 12:32 | cjb | tomeu: as long as with 708/F9, but when you close the lid or push the power button, nothing will happen |
| 12:32 | dsd_ | i have to go |
| 12:32 | pgf | tomeu: if that's easy (to give a choice) then that would be fine. |
| 12:32 | cjb | tomeu: it will not be as long as with 767/801, which has automatic power management too |
| 12:33 | walterbender | dsd_: thanks for your helpful input |
| 12:33 | cjb | pgf: thanks! |
| 12:33 | tomeu | walterbender: quite a bit, because the older DS was much slower in that kind of queries |
| 12:33 | cjb | uh |
| 12:33 | dsd_: thanks! | |
| 12:33 | :) | |
| 12:33 | tomeu | cjb: but similar to 656? |
| 12:33 | walterbender | tomeu: too bad... to me that is *the* biggest differentiator in 0.84 |
| 12:33 | dsd_ | no probs, have a fun weekend |
| 12:33 | cjb | tomeu: yup |
| 12:33 | tomeu | dsd_: see you! |
| 12:33 | cjb | tomeu: except 656 sleeps when you close the lid or hit power button |
| 12:33 | and this won't | |
| 12:33 | tomeu | walterbender: yeah, think so |
| 12:33 | cjb | but the runtime will be similar |
| 12:34 | dsd_: have fun, bye | |
| 12:34 | tomeu | hpachas-PE: asi que F11 duraria en funcionamiento aprox el mismo tiempo que 656, pero mucho menos que 767/801 |
| 12:34 | pero 656 puede suspenderse manualmente, y F11 no | |
| 12:35 | cjb | tomeu: thanks :) |
| 12:35 | hpachas-PE | tomeu, los alumnos lo compararia vs lo que tienen al día de hoy.. q es la version 703_7 |
| 12:35 | walterbender | tomeu: the goal of this discussion it to provide guidance to deployments as to how they make their decisions re 8.20 v F11 v F12 and to capture the work items that are blocking them |
| 12:35 | tomeu | cjb: is 656 equivalent to 703 regarding PM? |
| 12:35 | hpachas-PE | tomeu, el PM es mejor o peor que la 703_7? |
| 12:36 | cjb | tomeu: yes |
| 12:36 | tomeu | hpachas-PE: peor porque no puede suspender |
| 12:36 | walterbender | undoubtly a move to 8.2.x is a big improvement... |
| 12:36 | tomeu | hpachas-PE: pero equivalente cuando la maquina esta encendida |
| 12:37 | hpachas-PE | tomeu, walterbender nosotros tenemos pensado migrar a una nueva versión el año 2010 |
| 12:37 | pero debemos hacer todas las pruebas durante este año. | |
| 12:38 | lo máximo que podemos tener una versión estable peru, seria en el mes de agosto/setiembre | |
| 12:38 | walterbender | if the plan is for 2010 than I think we should target F12 with the changes we discussed |
| 12:38 | cjb | for sure |
| 12:38 | tomeu | walterbender: but they won't have a stable F12 version in august this year, for their testing |
| 12:38 | walterbender | but they could do some classroom testing with both 8.2.x and F11 |
| 12:39 | hpachas-PE | walterbender, nosotros ya armamos el equipo para empezar los testing y reportar bugs |
| 12:39 | walterbender | knowing that in the former case, they have missing Sugar features and in the latter case, missing system features |
| 12:39 | hpachas-PE | de las versiones que van a salir |
| 12:39 | desde la v 8.4 | |
| 12:40 | walterbender | hpachas-PE: si. It is very important to get feedback Sucrose 0.84 |
| 12:40 | hpachas-PE | walterbender, seguro |
| 12:41 | pero tenemos que tener un objetivo de la version estable 2010 | |
| 12:41 | walterbender | hpachas-PE: I think we can achieve your goal |
| 12:41 | tomeu | the first release candidate of F12 is proposed for end of september |
| 12:41 | walterbender | hpachas-PE: and we can identify areas for Peru to work on |
| 12:41 | at the Peru Sugar Lab :) | |
| 12:42 | hpachas-PE | walterbender, eso es un hecho :) |
| 12:42 | tomeu | that sounds pretty well ;) |
| 12:42 | hpachas-PE | walterbender, necesito mentores para los practicantes. y tareas para ir avanzando |
| 12:43 | pero es otro tema... :-) | |
| 12:43 | pgf | tomeu, cjb: what's the lead time for getting kernel change upstreamed, in order to get them into any given fedora release? i.e., when's the cutoff for getting into F12? |
| 12:43 | walterbender | hpachas-PE: we have identified some tasks today... and we can find you mentors, I promise |
| 12:43 | hpachas-PE | ahora pienso que debemos sentarnos a discutir sobre esta version estable 2010. q necesitamos tener en cuenta y como lograrlo |
| 12:44 | walterbender, lo importante es que tenemos tiempo. (no mucho, pero no esta muy ajustado el tiempo) | |
| 12:44 | cjb | pgf: 2.6.29's about to release, so the 2.6.30 merge window will be opening |
| 12:44 | walterbender | hpachas-PE: I wonder if there shouldn't be a model like Google Summer of Code run out of SL Peru? |
| 12:44 | tomeu | no idea, perhaps by feature freeze? |
| 12:44 | cjb | F12's probably going to ship.. 2.6.31? |
| 12:44 | or maybe even 2.6.32, not sure | |
| 12:44 | anyway, plenty of time. Fedora's kernels have daily merges with Linus | |
| 12:45 | so there is no cutoff, essentially. | |
| 12:45 | tomeu | cjb: the proposed F12 schedule seems to have everything earlier than usual: http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/ |
| 12:45 | pgf | i see. so if we got several people to take on upstreaming of our outstanding patches, we could certainly get them into F12. |
| 12:45 | tomeu | feature freeze being on 28/07 |
| 12:45 | cjb | tomeu: probably out of date |
| 12:45 | F11's slipped a lot already | |
| 12:46 | tomeu | ok |
| 12:46 | cjb | pgf: yes. |
| 12:46 | pgf | (i'm volunteering to help, but not if there's a hard cutoff date too near in the future.) |
| 12:46 | hpachas-PE | walterbender, podemos hacer un SugarLabs Summer of Code :-) |
| 12:46 | cjb | pgf: thanks! ok. |
| 12:47 | walterbender | hpachas-PE: please get some students to apply |
| 12:47 | hpachas-PE | walterbender, si realizamos una buena campaña, habrán miles de estudiantes :-) |
| 12:48 | walterbender | hpachas-PE: I'd rather have too many applicants than too few |
| 12:48 | hpachas-PE | walterbender, cuando piensas que podemos discutir sobre los objetivos de la version estable 2010? |
| 12:49 | cjb | tomeu: so, from that table, I'd expect F12 to release half way through the 2.6.31 cycle |
| 12:49 | which would mean we have the beginning of 2.6.30 and the beginning of 2.6.31 as opportunities to get code in | |
| 12:49 | walterbender | hpachas-PE: I think the list (http://pastebin.be/17383) is a good beginning |
| 12:50 | hpachas-PE: and feedback about 0.84 would be important as well | |
| 12:50 | hpachas-PE | walterbender, ok. pero tienes q tener en cuenta , que mi propuesta esta en base a lo que conozco y no sobre lo que se tiene en F11 |
| 12:50 | tomeu | walterbender, hpachas-PE: and I guess general feedback about sugar and which features are missing |
| 12:51 | walterbender | hpachas-PE: we still need to uncover the F11 bugs, but that will come from the testing |
| 12:51 | hpachas-PE: but knowing about missing features is an important step | |
| 12:52 | hpachas-PE | excelent |
| 12:52 | walterbender | hpachas-PE: we put together a survey for teachers... for Ceibal. |
| 12:52 | hpachas-PE: can we use it in Peru as well? | |
| 12:52 | hpachas-PE | nosotros tendremos resultados de pruebas técnicas/pedagógicas |
| 12:52 | y lo compartiremos con ustedes | |
| 12:53 | tomeu | wow, that sounds very interesting! |
| 12:53 | hpachas-PE | walterbender, lo hemos iniciado el día de hoy |
| 12:53 | walterbender | hpachas-PE: muy buene |
| 12:53 | hpachas-PE | walterbender, tomeu pienso tambien importante tener un protocolo de pruebas |
| 12:54 | tomeu | hpachas-PE: si, estos dias estamos hablando sobre pruebas automaticas, tambien |
| 12:54 | hpachas-PE | para que la información que difundamos sea estandar |
| 12:54 | tomeu | no es lo mismo, pero se complementan |
| 12:54 | hpachas-PE | tomeu, si. |
| 12:54 | tomeu | hpachas-PE: cuando crees que tendremos noticias sobre estas pruebas y el protocolo? |
| 12:55 | hpachas-PE | a penas terminen la prueba técnica, comparto los resultados |
| 12:55 | luego continua las pruebas pedagogicas | |
| 12:55 | las pruebas pedagogicas ya van sobre el uso de la actividad en si | |
| 12:55 | tomeu | estupendo |
| 12:56 | hpachas-PE | y en paralelo se realiza las pruebas del servidor XS |
| 12:56 | walterbender | hpachas-PE: can you share the protocol? |
| 12:56 | hpachas-PE | si, cuando lo tenga , (aun estoy trabajando en dicho protocolo ) |
| 12:56 | walterbender | hpachas-PE: so we can correlate results globally? |
| 12:57 | hpachas-PE | si, son testing |
| 12:57 | no compromete a nada por q no esta en producción | |
| 12:58 | walterbender, nosotros tenemos el Sugar como SO, + Actividades (peruanas) como hacemos para juntarlas en una sola imagen ? y ademas firmarla? | |
| 12:59 | tomeu | cjb debe saber el estado de esto |
| 12:59 | y dsd_, tambien | |
| 12:59 | hpachas-PE | tomeu, ok. si por q tambien es importante en las pruebas tener esto en cuenta |
| 13:00 | tomeu | si |
| 13:00 | hmm, cjb quizas a salido a almorzar | |
| 13:00 | cjb | sí, podemos hablar de que |
| 13:00 | :) | |
| 13:00 | tomeu | cjb: how can they add activities to their build and sign it? |
| 13:01 | cjb | we already do that for them, I think? |
| 13:01 | we signed peru708 with their activities | |
| 13:01 | we can do it again for a different set of activities if they have a new one | |
| 13:01 | tomeu | cjb: so they cannot do that themselves? |
| 13:01 | cjb: I think they want more images for testing purposes | |
| 13:02 | cjb | no, not themselves |
| 13:02 | with UY we are handing off the key infrastructure for them | |
| 13:02 | so that they can sign their own builds | |
| 13:02 | also with Paraguay | |
| 13:02 | but not yet with Peru | |
| 13:02 | long-term, that is the plan | |
| 13:02 | walterbender | long term or short term? |
| 13:03 | cjb | it involves upgrading every machine |
| 13:03 | walterbender | ouch |
| 13:03 | cjb | which UY can do because they all have net access |
| 13:03 | well, you have to flash the new key into the firmware | |
| 13:03 | but Peru does not have net access everywhere | |
| 13:03 | so perhaps we can do this when they upgrade everyone to 8.2.x | |
| 13:03 | we haven't talked about it much yet | |
| 13:04 | walterbender | cjb: makes sense |
| 13:06 | shall we end the meeting soon? | |
| 13:06 | I think we covered a lot today | |
| 13:06 | cjb | sounds good :) |
| 13:06 | tomeu | hpachas-PE: alguna otra pregunta? |
| 13:06 | walterbender | thanks everyone... things are getting clearer... |
| 13:06 | hpachas-PE | tomeu, el dia de hoy ha sido muy productivo, muchas gracias a todos , tenemos mucho trabajo :-) |
| 13:06 | tomeu | hpachas-PE: cjb te ha resolvido tus dudas sobre firmar vuestras propias imagenes? |
| 13:07 | si, trabajo no falta ;) | |
| 13:07 | hpachas-PE | tomeu, no me quedo claro, si podemos firmar nuestras imagenes para pruebas |
| 13:07 | tomeu | hpachas-PE: para poder firmar vosotros vuestras imagenes, antes hay que actualizar el firmware |
| 13:08 | con el OFW que estan usando actualmente, no se pueden firmar en peru, hay que pedirselo a boston | |
| 13:08 | walterbender | my stomach is growling... time for breakfast/lunch... |
| 13:08 | hpachas-PE | tomeu, nosotros estamos trabajando con la v28 |
| 13:08 | tomeu | hpachas-PE: parece ser algo que hay que coordinar con olpc |
| 13:08 | hpachas-PE | walterbender, muchas gracias, no hay problema. conversamos por la tarde |
| 13:08 | walterbender | tres... |
| 13:09 | dos... | |
| 13:09 | hpachas-PE | jajaja |
| 13:09 | walterbender | uno. |
| 13:09 | hpachas-PE | va a explotar |
| 13:09 | :-D | |
| 13:09 | walterbender | #endmeeting |
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