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#sugar-meeting, 2009-03-20

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
11:37 dsd_ we are not much further than booting F11+sugar on XO, with many issues yet to be resolved
11:37 walterbender #TOPIC enumerate the deployment relevant differences between the XO builds and F11
11:37 dsd_ and many things yet to be found
11:37 cjb dsd_: good point
11:37 walterbender dsd_: so let's start getting them written down
11:37 dsd_ its in early stages
11:38 cjb we're going to be filing bugs in F11 on the Red Hat bugzilla, and already have some there
11:38 dsd_ walterbender: my point is that while we know some of the issues, things are so early on that we dont really have an idea of what more there is coming...
11:38 walterbender dsd_: I think cjb's point is let's start by enumerating what we know
11:38 dsd_ ok
11:39 walterbender cjb: how are the F11 bugs tagged?
11:39 cjb dsd_: I think it'd be a useful exercise to go ahead and assume the basic integration stuff does get fixed, and then see where that leaves us
11:39 tomeu I guess we can distinguish between missing features and bugs
11:40 dsd_ ok
11:40 agreed
11:40 tomeu bugs are more unknown than missing features
11:40 cjb walterbender: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/sh[…]bug.cgi?id=461806
11:40 walterbender cjb: thanks
11:41 cjb ok.  so, let's assume we have a stock F11 install sitting on an XO with GNOME and Sugar, and there are no bugs (!), but plenty of missing features
11:41 what are the missing features?
11:41 dsd_ mesh
11:41 power management
11:41 library
11:41 some activities, i think
11:41 tomeu rainbow
11:42 olpc-update
11:42 dsd_ activity updater (its present, i think, but it wont work for activities that are RPM-installed)
11:42 customization key
11:42 lease security and activation
11:44 walterbender dsd_: can you remind me what "library" means?
11:44 dsd_ content bundles
11:44 which you can open from the browse homepage
11:44 .xol
11:44 for textbooks and so on
11:44 walterbender dsd_: .xols work, but I suppose you mean installing them on the browse homepage...
11:45 tomeu hi .py :)
11:45 cjb or maybe we can say "a portal for browsing installed content, and the content itself"
11:45 dsd_ another: the XO OS reads the locale and keyboard info from MFG data, pretty sure fedora doesnt do that yet
11:45 tomeu walterbender: yeah, that's the only missing piece, afaik
11:45 dsd_ walterbender: is there another way of accessing installed content?
11:45 walterbender dsd_: the journal
11:45 dsd_ apart from typing in the path
11:45 ah ok
11:46 thats not quite as major as i thought then, but still yes, the portal is a missing feature
11:46 walterbender dsd_: there is at present a discussion about what the best way to go forward is...
11:46 dsd_ yep
11:46 cjb ul-warning
11:46 keyboard special keys
11:46 tomeu dsd_: basically, we just miss the make_index script to get back to 0.82 functionality
11:46 cjb (from dsd's list earlier)
11:47 walterbender removable media in the Journal
11:47 cjb I'll collate these into a pastebin or something
11:47 walterbender: good one, thanks
11:47 tomeu walterbender: that's more of an integration bug
11:47 walterbender has anyone tried using Record?
11:47 cjb that's okay, some of these are integration bugs
11:47 tomeu works in ubuntu, don't know why not in soas1
11:47 dsd_ i have to admit to not actually trying sugar 0.84 or F11-XO yet..although i have been keeping a close eye on things
11:47 cjb walterbender: no, but if it doesn't work, I would call that a bug
11:48 tomeu yeah, probably integration, due to gstreamer stuff
11:48 dsd_ make sure to be trying v60 and not v59
11:48 v59 depends on broken gstreamer behaviour which is now fixed
11:48 v60 depends on gstreamer doing as it should :)
11:49 walterbender dsd_: yeah. I was trying v59 :(
11:49 dsd_ fwiw, the new gstreamer makes record much more responsive in live video mode
11:49 very impressive
11:49 much less latency
11:50 cjb http://pastie.org/422048
11:50 walterbender it would be good to get a handle on the missing activities and understand why they wont work
11:50 cjb hpachas-PE:
11:50 walterbender dsd_: do you have such a list?
11:50 cjb Por favor, vuelva a fin de esta lista en orden de importancia de cada elemento es, y nos devuelva un enlace actualizado?
11:51 dsd_ walterbender: nope, sorry
11:51 cjb the soas folks might
11:51 hpachas-PE cjb, no entendi
11:51 cjb since they'll be not working there either
11:51 dsd_: want to try a translation?  :)
11:52 walterbender cjb: I have not run across any yet, except that some activities don't work 100%
11:52 cjb hpachas-PE: http://pastie.org/422048 .. Quiero ver cómo cada feature importante es
11:52 walterbender e.g., write won't share (but only on Fedora)
11:52 cjb hpachas-PE: Reordenación de la lista
11:52 hpachas-PE: claro?
11:52 dsd_ hehe
11:52 hpachas-PE cjb, si, ahora estoy revisando
11:53 cjb hpachas-PE: gracias!
11:56 walterbender so, assuming this list is reasonably comprehensive,...
11:56 tomeu doesn't look too bad, does it?
11:57 dsd_ some of them raise difficult questions, but its not too bad
11:57 walterbender maybe between tomeu and sdziallas and cjb we can get a sense of which ones have no owner
11:58 tomeu most are orphan, but not all
11:58 cjb hm, I don't think any of them have an owner currently
11:58 hpachas-PE cjb, como copia la lista ?
11:58 tomeu silbe has stepped up to take care of rainbow
11:58 walterbender cjb: do you have any sense of whether OLPC would be able tackle some of them?
11:58 cjb hpachas-PE: si
11:59 hpachas-PE lo copio aqui?
11:59 tomeu hpachas-PE: o en pastebin.be
11:59 cjb o en pastie.org :)
11:59 dsd_ hpachas-PE: escribe en http://pastie.org/pastes/new
11:59 walterbender hpachas-PE: creatar un neuvo pastebin
11:59 cjb walterbender: so, it's complicated
11:59 tomeu but I'm not sure if silbe has volunteered to make rainbow work on 0.84 or only for 0.86
11:59 cjb if you mean OLPC HQ, then I think I'm the only person left there who has worked on any of these items
12:00 hpachas-PE cjb, http://pastebin.be/17383
12:00 tomeu bernie is taking care of "activity update control panel"
12:00 dsd_ he's making it upgrade RPM packages?
12:00 tomeu but again, I'm not sure how far he intends to go regarding integration with XO
12:00 cjb but there's also this new Miami setup with Rodrigo
12:00 tomeu dsd_: not that I know of, but maybe we shouldn't ship no activities as rpm?
12:01 walterbender cjb: is that more than marketing?
12:01 cjb it's still getting started, but I get the impression that the workflow there is that Hernan should tell Rodrigo which features (exactly like this list) are most important to him, and Rodrigo should help find a way to get them implemented
12:01 tomeu and I think that the soas guys intend to work on the special keys
12:01 maybe mtd?
12:01 walterbender cjb: that would be great if they have some resources
12:01 cjb walterbender: I think so; there are certainly countries that are willing to pay for software work
12:01 dsd_ paraguayeduca hopes to play an active role in getting things on-track.. but i cant say more than that at the moment
12:02 cjb hpachas-PE: gracias
12:02 walterbender cjb: I would think that countries should do the development in country and share the results...
12:02 cjb walterbender: yup
12:02 hpachas-PE walterbender, cjb pienso que es importante por que he colocado la lista de esa manera
12:02 tomeu dsd_: that sounds nice
12:03 hpachas-PE pienso que es importante que ustedes sepan, por que he colocado la lista de esa manera
12:03 dsd_ hpachas-PE: si
12:04 cjb claro
12:04 dsd_ hpachas-PE: puedes explicar algo?
12:04 hpachas-PE 1. es importante compartir las actividades , por el enfoque de colaboración que tienen las XO
12:04 walterbender hpachas-PE: but with mesh or ejabber?
12:04 hpachas-PE: do they use school servers?
12:05 hpachas-PE buena pregunta. queremos que las actividades sean compartidas. quizas el medio no necesariamente sea el mesh, pero es el que conocemos y el que OLPC ofrecio
12:05 walterbender hpachas-PE: collaboration works fine on F11 (except for the write bug) through a server
12:06 hpachas-PE aqui viene un punto adicional entre el XO + XS.. almacenamiento, como se realizará el almacenamiento entre ambos?
12:06 walterbender hpachas-PE: I think we want to sort out the Network Manager issues somehow in any case, but collaboration != mesh
12:06 hpachas-PE walterbender, de acuerdo.
12:06 cjb oh!  yes, I missed out "XS backup" from the list
12:07 hpachas-PE: "XS backup" es importante?
12:07 tomeu talking still about possible owners, maybe pgf would like to continue his work on powerd?
12:07 hpachas-PE walterbender, entonces debo entender que el medio de comunicacion y colaboracion no será mesh, sino jabber ?
12:07 walterbender tomeu: he seems to be making great progress
12:07 cjb tomeu: sure, maybe
12:07 tomeu: the blocking part of power management isn't an app, though
12:08 it's the kernel support
12:08 (ohm runs fine on F11 too)
12:08 tomeu I see
12:08 cjb (but not if it doesn't have a kernel to talk to)
12:08 walterbender hpachas-PE: si. jabber es bueno en F11
12:08 dsd_ hpachas-PE: sin mesh, necesitas una servidor con ejabberd (por ejemplo XS) y puntos de aceso wifi
12:08 cjb our PM stuff didn't go into the upstream kernel
12:08 tomeu cjb: but I guess we are not restricted to a clean fedora kernel, right?
12:08 dsd_: what about salut?
12:08 cjb tomeu: we should consider what happens if we are, and if we aren't, I think
12:08 dsd_ tomeu: good point
12:08 walterbender cjb +1
12:09 cjb but you're right, we could take F11 and replace its kernel with OLPC's 2.6.25
12:09 this has been done already, by ShanghaiScott
12:09 but I haven't tried it yet
12:09 walterbender cjb: buy how long will OLPC be maintaining kernels?
12:09 hpachas-PE entonces tenemos esta arquitectura--- solo XO -- (mesh) .. con XO+XS (ejabber) is correct?
12:09 dsd_ i think its a bad direction, but i've argued before and dont think i should argue more without stepping up hehe
12:09 walterbender ^buy^but
12:09 cjb dsd_: go on?  I'm pretty sure we're all gonna agree with you
12:10 dsd_ hpachas-PE: perdon, cometí un error
12:10 walterbender dsd_: are you referring to the kernel?
12:10 dsd_ hpachas-PE: sin mesh, hay 2 opciones
12:10 cjb walterbender: well, it's not maintained; we laid off our kernel developers.  But it happens to still be new enough to work with F11, even though it's four releases old.
12:10 dsd_ 1. red de wifi, con puntos de access *solo* (no es bueno si hay muchos laptops)
12:11 2. como (1) pero con una servidor con ejabberd
12:11 walterbender cjb: but it isn't a long-term viable approacjh,
12:11 cjb walterbender: correct
12:11 tomeu hpachas-PE: hay una tercera alternativa: los XOs pueden colaborar sin un servidor si estan conectados al mismo punto de acceso wifi
12:11 dsd_ (2) es mejor, pero se necesita más infraestructura
12:11 cjb walterbender: almost everything's upstream, which is why the F11 kernel works fairly well, but power management is the missing piece.
12:11 tomeu cjb: I guess getting them accepted upstream is a lot of work, but how much work is rebasing them to newer releases?
12:11 dsd_ tomeu: no, that as my (1)
12:11 *was
12:12 tomeu dsd_: oh, true, wasn't referring to your list, but to hernan's
12:12 cjb tomeu: since we're down to just power management, it's actually a fairly clean patch
12:12 hpachas-PE resumiendo --- 1- solo Xo, comunicación via mesh, o AP (supongo que lo selecciono por un click)
12:12 dsd_ ah ok
12:12 cjb so there are actually two options here, for getting power management:
12:12 * replace Fedora's kernel with ours
12:12 hpachas-PE 2.- XO  +XS, jabber (mas infraestructura
12:12 tomeu cjb: wow, doesn't sounds too bad
12:12 cjb * prepare the minimal patch that adds PM to Fedora's kernel, and make that kernel
12:12 dsd_ hpachas-PE: exactamente
12:13 walterbender cjb: how realistic is #2?
12:13 hpachas-PE para 1, cuantas XO pueden estar conectadas?
12:13 pgf has cjb said #2 yet?
12:13 dsd_ hpachas-PE: con mesh, aproximalmente 10-15. con AP, más, pero no sé exactamente
12:14 walterbender hpachas-PE: what youwe lose is the XO-XO with no AP...
12:14 dsd_ no muchos
12:14 cjb pgf: the two bullet points
12:14 pgf okay.  wasn't sure.
12:14 hpachas-PE el rendimiento a bajado. antes solo con XO llegabamos a 30
12:14 cjb dsd_: do you want to have a crack at answering that?
12:14 hpachas-PE sin necesidad de AP
12:15 dsd_ cjb: which question?
12:15 cjb (how realistic it is to prepare a 2.6.29 patch that adds olpc-pm, and maybe the geode gpio driver)
12:15 (as opposed to replacing the whole kernel)
12:15 dsd_ i dont understand.. what use is a .patch for users?
12:15 they need a whole kernel, compiled
12:16 cjb I mean, as opposed to replacing the whole kernel with our old 2.6.25
12:16 we would compile it
12:16 and ship a kernel RPM
12:16 dsd_ ah
12:16 well i certainly cringe at the idea of using 2.6.25
12:16 i definitely like the sound of something closer to fedora
12:16 cjb walterbender: it's hard to answer; it's 0% probably if no-one works on it, and ~90% probable if a real kernel hacker spends up to a week on it, I'd say
12:16 dsd_ but my opnion is that you should stay well away from making any non-upstream kernel modifications
12:17 cjb dsd_: if we do that, we don't get PM
12:17 dsd_ and preferably you should stay away from making any modifications at all, but ask the fedora people to make the already-upstream modifications
12:17 walterbender dsd_: do you think that maintaining a few kernel patches is the sort of thing Paraguay would be willing to take on?
12:17 (among others of course)
12:17 dsd_ then we dont have PM until we do the proper work needed for it to be ready
12:17 hpachas-PE siguiendo con la explicación, he considerado las llaves de activación casi al final de la lista, debido a que el Servidor XS debe enviar las llaves de activación
12:17 cjb dsd_: preparing a patch against 2.6.29 would be part of that work
12:17 since it's never been submitted
12:17 dsd_ ok
12:17 cjb so I think there's a middle ground
12:18 prepare the patch, submit the patch, start responding to criticism
12:18 Fedora would probably even take it at that point
12:18 but this is post-F11
12:18 dsd_ i think you should ship F11 without PM, unless someone manages to get the code upstream and then backported into fedora in time
12:18 walterbender hpachas-PE: quel % escolas ultilizar XS?
12:18 cjb dsd_: the latter is impossible
12:18 dsd_ and i think you should never apply, or ask fedora to apply non-upstream patches
12:19 cjb dsd_: well, that's just another way of saying you don't care about power management in the next ~9 months
12:19 hpachas-PE walterbender, 1. mayores a 40 XO, 2, con electricidad
12:19 cjb of course we should never want to do it
12:19 dsd_ cjb: the aim is of course that someone does the work to get it upstream
12:19 so i dont think you can put a timeframe on that
12:19 but yes, you're right, i dont care about any feature unless it is upstream
12:20 i think you are crazy to plan otherwise
12:20 walterbender hpachas-PE: y % escolas con AP?
12:20 dsd_ since you'll end up wasting time that you could put towards development etc
12:21 cjb ok
12:21 hpachas-PE walterbender, si existe un XS, tendra su AP
12:21 walterbender dsd_: the model we had been working on (when I was still at OLPC) was to work on things we hoped would be upstream, but not expect everythign would start there)
12:21 cjb dsd_: so, if I extrapolate from your suggestion
12:21 dsd_ however, i dont think i am in a position to dictate, because i am not contributing :(
12:21 cjb dsd_: if power management is important to Hernan, he should avoid F11
12:21 hpachas-PE este es el requerimiento que se hizo a OLPC respecto al server http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Feat[…]on_lease_security
12:21 dsd_ walterbender: yeah, and i think that model was OK when there were a decent number of salaried employees
12:21 not now
12:22 cjb dsd_: and should try to do helpful things (such as just announcing that it's important to him) towards getting it upstream for F12
12:22 walterbender dsd_: agreed.
12:22 cjb (or funding work on it)
12:22 dsd_ cjb: yes
12:22 cjb ok
12:22 and we know mesh is in similar (actually, worse) shape
12:22 walterbender or get the work done in Peru or Paraguay...
12:22 cjb just not going to work on F11
12:22 tomeu what about 0.84 on F10?
12:22 cjb walterbender: dsd's point is that it doesn't have time to make it upstream and back for F11
12:23 tomeu: hm, F10 has all the same challenges as F11, I think?  I haven't been considering it as an option
12:23 dsd_ fedora will continue to push new F11 packages after F11 is released
12:23 so i dont think we should rule out having a new NM or kernel after F11 release day
12:23 and because we will build spins from latest packages only...
12:23 cjb that's true
12:23 walterbender these are some questions for sdziallas
12:23 dsd_ however -- i do think the timeframe needed for this work will push us to F12 or beyond
12:24 hpachas-PE al tener ese esquema de trabajo en el servidor, el se encargaría de distribuir las llaves , la actualización del software  y el backup
12:24 dsd_ maybe we'll have mesh and PM beforehand, but there will be other features required, and plenty of testing/bugfixing needed too
12:24 tomeu cjb: ok, I forgot 0.82 was based on f9
12:24 cjb tomeu: si :)
12:24 walterbender tomeu: I had had that same confusion last week :)
12:25 cjb dsd_: that makes sense.  (our plan since January has been "start getting things upstream, they probably won't be there in time for F11, but hopefully F12", so this isn't a big shock)
12:26 tomeu PM is not so high in hpachas-PE's list, btw
12:26 cjb that's true
12:26 hpachas-PE:
12:26 hpachas-PE cjb, si
12:26 walterbender I think mesh might not be as high as collaboration?
12:26 cjb ¿por qué no es la power management más importante para usted?
12:27 hm, both manual power management (sleep) and automatic (suspend) won't work, without the kernel changes
12:28 walterbender: that sounds right
12:28 hpachas-PE si el PM va a funcionar como al día de hoy, pienso que esta bien. si aumenta el tiempo de descarga es bueno para nosotros,
12:29 walterbender cjb: I would think a laptop that has no way to suspend would be a problem :(
12:29 hpachas-PE la pregunta seria, que tanto mejoraria el PM?
12:29 pgf why is a newer kernel more important than PM?   (not in general, but right now?)
12:29 cjb pgf: huh?
12:29 oh, you mean, why don't we just stick with 2.6.25
12:30 pgf yes.
12:30 cjb I guess that would be a deployment's choice, since the RPM's easily installable
12:30 the reason not to is that it's unsustainable
12:30 pgf sure, but if there are no known regressions from using 2.6.25, i'd think the choice is clear.
12:30 (for now)
12:31 tomeu hpachas-PE: el problema es que actualmente F11 no tiene ningun soporte para suspender las maquinas
12:31 dsd_ yeah, why dont we stay with sugar 0.82 also, and F9
12:31 tomeu hpachas-PE: asi que probablemente duraran menos tiempo
12:31 dsd_ i think its time to move on...
12:31 tomeu 0.82 was an awesome release ;)
12:31 hpachas-PE tomeu, que tiempo dura la bateria en este nuevo estado?
12:32 pgf dsd_: it's not time to move on if loss of features makes it useless.
12:32 tomeu cjb: do you know how much time would last the battery with F11?
12:32 walterbender tomeu: how impossible would it be to add resume by default to 0.82?
12:32 tomeu pgf, dsd_: cannot give that choice to the deployers?
12:32 cjb tomeu: as long as with 708/F9, but when you close the lid or push the power button, nothing will happen
12:32 dsd_ i have to go
12:32 pgf tomeu: if that's easy (to give a choice) then that would be fine.
12:32 cjb tomeu: it will not be as long as with 767/801, which has automatic power management too
12:33 walterbender dsd_: thanks for your helpful input
12:33 cjb pgf: thanks!
12:33 tomeu walterbender: quite a bit, because the older DS was much slower in that kind of queries
12:33 cjb uh
12:33 dsd_: thanks!
12:33 :)
12:33 tomeu cjb: but similar to 656?
12:33 walterbender tomeu: too bad... to me that is *the* biggest differentiator in 0.84
12:33 dsd_ no probs, have a fun weekend
12:33 cjb tomeu: yup
12:33 tomeu dsd_: see you!
12:33 cjb tomeu: except 656 sleeps when you close the lid or hit power button
12:33 and this won't
12:33 tomeu walterbender: yeah, think so
12:33 cjb but the runtime will be similar
12:34 dsd_: have fun, bye
12:34 tomeu hpachas-PE: asi que F11 duraria en funcionamiento aprox el mismo tiempo que 656, pero mucho menos que 767/801
12:34 pero 656 puede suspenderse manualmente, y F11 no
12:35 cjb tomeu: thanks :)
12:35 hpachas-PE tomeu, los alumnos lo compararia vs lo que tienen al día de hoy.. q es la version 703_7
12:35 walterbender tomeu: the goal of this discussion it to provide guidance to deployments as to how they make their decisions re 8.20 v F11 v F12 and to capture the work items that are blocking them
12:35 tomeu cjb: is 656 equivalent to 703 regarding PM?
12:35 hpachas-PE tomeu, el PM es mejor o peor que la 703_7?
12:36 cjb tomeu: yes
12:36 tomeu hpachas-PE: peor porque no puede suspender
12:36 walterbender undoubtly a move to 8.2.x is a big improvement...
12:36 tomeu hpachas-PE:  pero equivalente cuando la maquina esta encendida
12:37 hpachas-PE tomeu, walterbender nosotros tenemos pensado migrar a una nueva versión el año 2010
12:37 pero debemos hacer todas las pruebas durante este año.
12:38 lo máximo que podemos tener una versión estable peru, seria en el mes de agosto/setiembre
12:38 walterbender if the plan is for 2010 than I think we should target F12 with the changes we discussed
12:38 cjb for sure
12:38 tomeu walterbender: but they won't have a stable F12 version in august this year, for their testing
12:38 walterbender but they could do some classroom testing with both 8.2.x and F11
12:39 hpachas-PE walterbender, nosotros ya armamos el equipo para empezar los testing y reportar bugs
12:39 walterbender knowing that in the former case, they have missing Sugar features and in the latter case, missing system features
12:39 hpachas-PE de las versiones que van a salir
12:39 desde la v 8.4
12:40 walterbender hpachas-PE: si. It is very important to get feedback Sucrose 0.84
12:40 hpachas-PE walterbender, seguro
12:41 pero tenemos que tener un objetivo de la version estable 2010
12:41 walterbender hpachas-PE: I think we can achieve your goal
12:41 tomeu the first release candidate of F12 is proposed for end of september
12:41 walterbender hpachas-PE: and we can identify areas for Peru to work on
12:41 at the Peru Sugar Lab :)
12:42 hpachas-PE walterbender, eso es un hecho :)
12:42 tomeu that sounds pretty well ;)
12:42 hpachas-PE walterbender, necesito mentores para los practicantes. y tareas para ir avanzando
12:43 pero es otro tema... :-)
12:43 pgf tomeu, cjb: what's the lead time for getting kernel change upstreamed, in order to get them into any given fedora release?  i.e., when's the cutoff for getting into F12?
12:43 walterbender hpachas-PE: we have identified some tasks today... and we can find you mentors, I promise
12:43 hpachas-PE ahora pienso que debemos sentarnos a discutir sobre esta version estable 2010. q necesitamos tener en cuenta y como lograrlo
12:44 walterbender, lo importante es que tenemos tiempo. (no mucho, pero no esta muy ajustado el tiempo)
12:44 cjb pgf: 2.6.29's about to release, so the 2.6.30 merge window will be opening
12:44 walterbender hpachas-PE: I wonder if there shouldn't be a model like Google Summer of Code run out of SL Peru?
12:44 tomeu no idea, perhaps by feature freeze?
12:44 cjb F12's probably going to ship.. 2.6.31?
12:44 or maybe even 2.6.32, not sure
12:44 anyway, plenty of time.  Fedora's kernels have daily merges with Linus
12:45 so there is no cutoff, essentially.
12:45 tomeu cjb: the proposed F12 schedule seems to have everything earlier than usual: http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/
12:45 pgf i see.  so if we got several people to take on upstreaming of our outstanding patches, we could certainly get them into F12.
12:45 tomeu feature freeze being on 28/07
12:45 cjb tomeu: probably out of date
12:45 F11's slipped a lot already
12:46 tomeu ok
12:46 cjb pgf: yes.
12:46 pgf (i'm volunteering to help, but not if there's a hard cutoff date too near in the future.)
12:46 hpachas-PE walterbender, podemos hacer un SugarLabs Summer of Code :-)
12:46 cjb pgf: thanks!  ok.
12:47 walterbender hpachas-PE: please get some students to apply
12:47 hpachas-PE walterbender, si realizamos una buena campaña, habrán miles de estudiantes :-)
12:48 walterbender hpachas-PE: I'd rather have too many applicants than too few
12:48 hpachas-PE walterbender, cuando piensas que podemos discutir sobre los objetivos de la version estable 2010?
12:49 cjb tomeu: so, from that table, I'd expect F12 to release half way through the 2.6.31 cycle
12:49 which would mean we have the beginning of 2.6.30 and the beginning of 2.6.31 as opportunities to get code in
12:49 walterbender hpachas-PE: I think the list (http://pastebin.be/17383) is a good beginning
12:50 hpachas-PE: and feedback about 0.84 would be important as well
12:50 hpachas-PE walterbender, ok. pero tienes q tener en cuenta , que mi propuesta esta en base a lo que conozco y no sobre lo que se tiene en F11
12:50 tomeu walterbender, hpachas-PE: and I guess general feedback about sugar and which features are missing
12:51 walterbender hpachas-PE: we still need to uncover the F11 bugs, but that will come from the testing
12:51 hpachas-PE: but knowing about missing features is an important step
12:52 hpachas-PE excelent
12:52 walterbender hpachas-PE: we put together a survey for teachers... for Ceibal.
12:52 hpachas-PE: can we use it in Peru as well?
12:52 hpachas-PE nosotros tendremos resultados de pruebas técnicas/pedagógicas
12:52 y lo compartiremos con ustedes
12:53 tomeu wow, that sounds very interesting!
12:53 hpachas-PE walterbender, lo hemos iniciado el día de hoy
12:53 walterbender hpachas-PE: muy buene
12:53 hpachas-PE walterbender, tomeu pienso tambien importante tener un protocolo de pruebas
12:54 tomeu hpachas-PE: si, estos dias estamos hablando sobre pruebas automaticas, tambien
12:54 hpachas-PE para que la información que difundamos sea estandar
12:54 tomeu no es lo mismo, pero se complementan
12:54 hpachas-PE tomeu, si.
12:54 tomeu hpachas-PE: cuando crees que tendremos noticias sobre estas pruebas y el protocolo?
12:55 hpachas-PE a penas terminen la prueba técnica, comparto los resultados
12:55 luego continua las pruebas pedagogicas
12:55 las pruebas pedagogicas ya van sobre el uso de la actividad en si
12:55 tomeu estupendo
12:56 hpachas-PE y en paralelo se realiza las pruebas del servidor XS
12:56 walterbender hpachas-PE: can you share the protocol?
12:56 hpachas-PE si, cuando lo tenga , (aun estoy trabajando en dicho protocolo )
12:56 walterbender hpachas-PE: so we can correlate results globally?
12:57 hpachas-PE si, son testing
12:57 no compromete a nada por q no esta en producción
12:58 walterbender, nosotros tenemos el Sugar como SO, + Actividades (peruanas) como hacemos para juntarlas en una sola imagen ? y ademas firmarla?
12:59 tomeu cjb debe saber el estado de esto
12:59 y dsd_, tambien
12:59 hpachas-PE tomeu, ok. si por q tambien es importante en las pruebas tener esto en cuenta
13:00 tomeu si
13:00 hmm, cjb quizas a salido a almorzar
13:00 cjb sí, podemos hablar de que
13:00 :)
13:00 tomeu cjb: how can they add activities to their build and sign it?
13:01 cjb we already do that for them, I think?
13:01 we signed peru708 with their activities
13:01 we can do it again for a different set of activities if they have a new one
13:01 tomeu cjb: so they cannot do that themselves?
13:01 cjb: I think they want more images for testing purposes
13:02 cjb no, not themselves
13:02 with UY we are handing off the key infrastructure for them
13:02 so that they can sign their own builds
13:02 also with Paraguay
13:02 but not yet with Peru
13:02 long-term, that is the plan
13:02 walterbender long term or short term?
13:03 cjb it involves upgrading every machine
13:03 walterbender ouch
13:03 cjb which UY can do because they all have net access
13:03 well, you have to flash the new key into the firmware
13:03 but Peru does not have net access everywhere
13:03 so perhaps we can do this when they upgrade everyone to 8.2.x
13:03 we haven't talked about it much yet
13:04 walterbender cjb: makes sense
13:06 shall we end the meeting soon?
13:06 I think we covered a lot today
13:06 cjb sounds good :)
13:06 tomeu hpachas-PE: alguna otra pregunta?
13:06 walterbender thanks everyone... things are getting clearer...
13:06 hpachas-PE tomeu, el dia de hoy ha sido muy productivo, muchas gracias a todos , tenemos mucho trabajo :-)
13:06 tomeu hpachas-PE: cjb te ha resolvido tus dudas sobre firmar vuestras propias imagenes?
13:07 si, trabajo no falta ;)
13:07 hpachas-PE tomeu, no me quedo claro, si podemos firmar nuestras imagenes para pruebas
13:07 tomeu hpachas-PE: para poder firmar vosotros vuestras imagenes, antes hay que actualizar el firmware
13:08 con el OFW que estan usando actualmente, no se pueden firmar en peru, hay que pedirselo a boston
13:08 walterbender my stomach is growling... time for breakfast/lunch...
13:08 hpachas-PE tomeu, nosotros estamos trabajando con la v28
13:08 tomeu hpachas-PE: parece ser algo que hay que coordinar con olpc
13:08 hpachas-PE walterbender, muchas gracias, no hay problema. conversamos por la tarde
13:08 walterbender tres...
13:09 dos...
13:09 hpachas-PE jajaja
13:09 walterbender uno.
13:09 hpachas-PE va a explotar
13:09 :-D
13:09 walterbender #endmeeting

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