Sugar meeting

All times shown according to UTC.

Time	Nick	Message
11:00	SeanDaly	mchua, walterbender, jt4sugar?
11:00	mchua	waves
11:00		http://sugarlabs.org/go/Market[…]s#Upcoming_Agenda
11:01	jt4sugar	Hello
11:01	walterbender	I'm back
11:01	SeanDaly	Mel that's extremely helpful many thanks
11:02		OK first I want to say that I am tremendously excited about the launch I hope you are too!
11:02		Now here's a sticky point: we need to decide quickly how to set up a phone number
11:02	sdziallas	waves
11:03	SeanDaly	greetings sdziallas
11:03	mchua	what's blocking that decision, Sean?
11:03	SeanDaly	I have looked (briefly) at 1-800 We Answer, VoiceStick, United World Telecom CallMyGlobalNumber, VoicePulse, and ViaTalk
11:03	walterbender	is bernie here? he has some insight into the problem
11:03	SeanDaly	walterbender: haven't seen him but he said last week an asterisk solution wasn't ready
11:04		mchua: budget, rreally. How to get what we need for cheap
11:04	walterbender	Have we considered just using SKYPE?
11:04	mchua	I think we've spent a long time checking out alternatives for this - at some point we just need to pick one, because the cost of us being wrong in our first choice is starting to be less than the cost of the effort we've put into determining the right choice so far.
11:04		It's not like we can't switch in a few months if it's really awful.
11:04	sdziallas	might it be worth contacting Google, whether they'd make an exception for an open source project like we're?
11:05	mchua	And a few months for any of those services is probably affordable.
11:05	SeanDaly	walterbender: I know little about Skype maybe the answer is there all along
11:05	jt4sugar	How much is available to spend first 2 months? Just need to get up and running
11:05	mchua	jt4sugar: +1
11:05	caroline	I agree with Mel, pick your favorite that you've seen and we can decide to change later.
11:05	SeanDaly	mchua: as long as we have a number by Friday we're fine
11:05		The reason I want to make an informed choice is, the press release will go out and a number like that takes on a life of its own
11:05		6 months later a journalist could dial it
11:06		then when you change it you have to say "don't use number X anymore"
11:06		jt4sugar: in fact there are good choices at 5 to 15 bucks a month which I can certainly afford
11:06	tomeu	so maybe we need to get a number we can change later to another service?
11:07	SeanDaly	sdziallas: GrandCentral not call forwarding to Europe yet
11:07	jt4sugar	What allows for scalability is key
11:07	tomeu	or we can keep using along the new one without having to pay too much?
11:07	SeanDaly	jt4sugar: +1
11:07	mchua	A zillion people trying to reach us at an old number is a wonderful problem to have - can we deal with it then? (I realize I'm speaking from an engineer's experience and values, though, so override me with Marketing-fu if needed. ;)
11:07	sdziallas	SeanDaly: ah, I see that point... mh! though it would just be a question of getting into that service, but well...
11:07	SeanDaly	tomeu: I don't count on good cooperation between telcos and VoIP providers for keeping number
11:08		Reminder of what we want: USA phone number, forwardable to Europe and USA, preferably by web access not touchtone coding
11:09	jt4sugar	I'll pitch in $50 for first 2 months just as long as we get scalable option
11:09	SeanDaly	With voicemail providing e-mail alert to prsugarlabs.org and preferably direct audio listening in e-mail
11:09		Scalable, and with cheap rates to Europe
11:10	tomeu	ok
11:10	SeanDaly	The idea is Walter & I (or others) could have fairly good "live" coverage at that number
11:10		switching between ourselves, and with voicemail backup either of us could access
11:11		Scenario: journalist calls, she gets either myself, Walter, or the voicemail; in this latter case either of us or e.g. dfarning could call back
11:11	mchua	SeanDaly, I'm content to let you make that decision for us by Friday and just tell us the option you chose and why; I think we have our options laid out, and I trust your judgment.
11:11		(in other words, "we're 12 minutes into meeting. ;)
11:11		er, closequotes. "
11:11	SeanDaly	mchua: ok ok :D
11:11	mchua	;)
11:12	SeanDaly	I'll take this offline and let's decide by tomorrow so set up and running by Friday thanks jt4sugar
11:12		Next item: the press release
11:12		The good news is, it's done
11:12		Walter & I worked on it
11:13		The bad news is, I hesitated to debate every line in it with everyone because of the time constraint
11:13		but Walter says he is happy with it
11:13	caroline	Do we have guidance for community members around how to blog about it effectively?
11:14	SeanDaly	caroline: in fact it would be great if soomeone stepped up to blog, it can't be me I'm not (yet) a blogger
11:14		I'm concentrating on getting it to journalists
11:14	caroline	there are quite a few bloggers int he community
11:14		so if we give some guidance I'm sure we can get it in half a dozen blogs
11:15	SeanDaly	caroline: I know some blogggers whom I could mail but any suggestions more than welcome
11:15	jt4sugar	How is release planned to all publications at once or a week long roll out
11:15	SeanDaly	Education and kids oriented blogs?
11:15	mchua	SeanDaly, once you post the press release I'll be blogging and plan on forwarding it out to my network of bloggers and all that.
11:15	SeanDaly	jt4sugar: tsunami style
11:15	caroline	What I mean by guidance is - When to publish, do you repeat it or do you link to it,
11:16	SeanDaly	Press release time is 9:00 AM EDT March 16th
11:16		The idea is to send mailing to all publications on the list at once
11:16		The mailing will have press release in plaintext, plus PDF, plus a nice screenshot of Sugar, plus the SugarLabs logo
11:17		caroline: you bring me to point 3 which is a press page on the website
11:17		That page will have links to HTML and PDFs of the press release(s)
11:18		And, we are going to publish in several languages!
11:18	sdziallas	is going to mention soas (press) stuff probably in the next meeting or so.
11:18	SeanDaly	sdziallas: which meeting?
11:18	sdziallas	SeanDaly: marketing meeting, too ;)
11:19	SeanDaly	sdziallas: what do you have in mind for SoaS?
11:19	sdziallas	SeanDaly: might well be that we'd consider getting soas out of the door soonish, and would probably be good to get it released soonish after having announced the Sugar release.
11:19		SeanDaly: I'm not sure, whether it will be stable enough until March 16th.
11:20	SeanDaly	We need to be very careful not to oversell SoaS
11:20		In the release we say that this is 0.84 and SoaS is in active development
11:20	sdziallas	SeanDaly: But it might want to push it a bit, though...
11:20	SeanDaly	And SoaS will be v1.0 and rready in "Q3 2009"
11:20	sdziallas	SeanDaly: Q3? oh...
11:20	SeanDaly	sdziallas: in fact we do push it because we ask for testers
11:21		to be clear, we will be testing & improving SoaS continuously
11:21	jt4sugar	Should think of help us build SoaS press release for Education community week or two following
11:21	SeanDaly	But v1.0 will be very robust, our first "product"
11:21	erikos	joined - sory to be late
11:21	SeanDaly	greetings erikos
11:21	sdziallas	SeanDaly: Yeah, I know. And I'd really like to get as many as possible. But as I tried to explain some time ago on #sugar, if the base system - Fedora - is still unstable, it might make a bad impression on the users. Even if Sugar isn't the cause.
11:22	SeanDaly	sdziallas - exactly, which is why we don't want to oversell SoaS right now
11:22		jt4sugar: keep in mind we are planning a developer press release for 0.84.1 or 0.84.2
11:23	erikos	i think we mainly want to announce it in the regard of testing
11:23		maybe not even needed to mention in the press release
11:23	SeanDaly	What would make sense would be a release for FOSS VT first week of April; when we will have sugarlabs branded USB sticks
11:23	erikos	we can update the state on the web page
11:23	SeanDaly	erikos: we mention it as "in active development, available Q3 2009"
11:24	erikos	SeanDaly: yup - that sounds good to me
11:24	jt4sugar	Just want to give Computer Science folks a chance to take it for a ride-Service Learning
11:24	SeanDaly	reminder, key goals of this press release are: "we are alive & kicking", "active development", "seeking volunteers, funding & testers"
11:25		jt4sugar: we can push that without a SoaS release
11:25	mchua	sees the world "volunteers" and goes "eep!"
11:25	SeanDaly	mchua: why "eep"?
11:25	erikos	wants as well a world of volunteers
11:26	mchua	volunteers for what? what are they going to do? are we ready to welcome, mentor, and utilize them?
11:26	SeanDaly	I have no doubt we will recruit volunteers
11:26	caroline	We need volunteer managers :)
11:26	mchua	do we have a good new volunteer experience? I'm not convinced.
11:26	caroline	volunteer volunteer managers
11:26	mchua	I'm trying to do that, but am spread a little thin right now...
11:26	SeanDaly	I've worked in places with 3 managers for every worker
11:26	tomeu	hmm, are countries already using sugar but not contributing to development yet a target of this press release?
11:26	caroline	mchua needs to be a different meeting
11:26	mchua	caroline + 1
11:27	erikos	tomeu: interesting point
11:27	mchua	ok, I'll keep an eye out for the "new volunteers go $here!" portion of the release and make sure something/somebody's there to catch them.
11:27		</worry>
11:27	SeanDaly	tomeu: concentrating on mainstream, education, and tech journalists in USA
11:27		with some from France thrown in
11:27	tomeu	SeanDaly: ok, just checking
11:28	SeanDaly	And any other publication which has been added to the contacts wiki page
11:28	mchua	I would personally prefer not to push the "and floods of volunteers join us NOW!" angle too much, since a big goal for me for the next release cycle is to build and test those intro experiences with smaller numbers of new volunteers so that we can really ask for a flood in 6 months.
11:28	SeanDaly	With PR, there are usually a very few influential publications, and favorable coverage cascades, and often ricochets around the Net
11:28	walterbender	tomeu: I will try to get it placed in publications in Brazil, Argentina, Peru, and Uruguay
11:29		needs to recurit more translators
11:29		SeanDaly: I never compiled my list for you from Latin America...
11:29	SeanDaly	mchua: part of the solution to that problem could be to simplify feedback
11:29		walterbender: ah yes anything you have please
11:30	tomeu	walterbender: maybe the sugarbrasil guys in ning could translate to portuguese?
11:30	SeanDaly	mchua: for example: do we have a webform for feedback? Is there a SoaS test scenario protocol?
11:30	walterbender	tomeu: I plan to contact them as soon as we have a final go on the press release.
11:30	mchua	SeanDaly: Nope, and working on it - first we need to get SoaS easy to boot from and on all platforms...
11:31	sdziallas	SeanDaly: it would be good if somebody tested SoaS against the smoke processes (for determining whether Sugar) works...
11:31	tomeu	walterbender: makes sense
11:31	walterbender	tomeu: and my friends at Grupo Estado.
11:31		and Clarin
11:31	tomeu	sdziallas: maybe the .nz guys could do that?
11:31		guesses those are media groups
11:31	SeanDaly	For example, webform (needs database behind it of course) users enters machine, SoaS build, x-y- works, z doesn't
11:31	mchua	sdziallas: I was trying to do that, but got stuck at "make a stick and get it to boot." Will ask questions on #sugar later, though.
11:32	sdziallas	mchua: what are all platforms? virtual machines? the XO? the classmate-pc? normal desktop pc's? this is what needs to be defined imo. we need to figured out, what we want to get worked.
11:32		mchua: okay, cool ;) will follow up with you then...
11:32	SeanDaly	I've had an awful time with the two SoaS images
11:32	mchua	anyway, it sounds like the press release is doing really well (aside from this "what to do re: feedback?" discussion thread, which can come out later once we see the release.)
11:32	SeanDaly	And a good, but not great time with the liveCD
11:32	mchua	and SoaS isn't part of this release anyway, so marketing-wise I think we're pretty cool.
11:32	sdziallas	tomeu: why not? sounds like a beginning ;)...
11:32	mchua	er, press release, I mean.
11:33	SeanDaly	But, I do have a wealth of information on what didn't work on which platforms
11:33		erikos needs that info
11:33		mchua: we mention it for the future without overselling it
11:33	erikos	SeanDaly: you mean - info about the non working soas?
11:33	mchua	notes we have 25 minutes and 4 out of 6 agenda items left ;)
11:33	SeanDaly	erikos: yes
11:34	mchua	yay, non-overselling mentions!
11:34	SeanDaly	mchua: we basically covered point 3 we just need to liaise with Christian on it
11:34	mchua	I stand corrected. 50% to go, then.
11:34	erikos	SeanDaly: ok
11:34	SeanDaly	erikos: yes- I'm mystified as to how to "file a bug report"
11:35		i'm sure it's easy but I'm confused
11:35	erikos	SeanDaly: oh - you tried already at dev.sugarlabs.org?
11:35	SeanDaly	I'm worried teachers would be even more confused
11:35	sdziallas	smells a need for quite some follow-ups on #sugar etc.
11:35	SeanDaly	erikos: no, I didn't know that URL
11:35	erikos	SeanDaly: oh, that is the first bad sign :(
11:35		SeanDaly: ok, we need to work on that i guess
11:36	SeanDaly	What would be nice would be a webform: "Feedback for Sugar on a STick"
11:36	sdziallas	erikos: definitely +1
11:36	SeanDaly	Which would maybe generate a real bug report?
11:36	jt4sugar	As well as an interest form: You have interest in Sugar Labs because...You would like to lend your talents to...
11:36	erikos	SeanDaly: hmm, i would be careful with these things
11:37	SeanDaly	In fact I found a wiki page that said to leave SoaS feedback but after doing so I can't find the page anymore
11:37	erikos	SeanDaly: i mean, i am ok with a feedback loop
11:37	SeanDaly	erikos: what's your concern?
11:37		too many reports?
11:37		or not usable enough? in that case if the webform is clear enough?
11:37	erikos	SeanDaly: a) you have to be responsive to feedback
11:37	tomeu	I guess we should learn about olpc experience with feedback from g1g1
11:38	erikos	b) you have to be good in handling that data
11:38	tomeu	they set up forums, had a support gang, a tracker of customer requests, etc
11:38	SeanDaly	erikos: it could be as siimple as a thank-you e-mail & offering to send another e-mail if&when the bug is identified/fixed
11:38	tomeu	if sugarlabs want to ship end user products
11:39	erikos	tomeu: hah - another point
11:39	tomeu	and would be good if we can avoid making the same mistakes
11:39	SeanDaly	tomeu: Sugar on a Stick is a product, in development now, but a teacher and parent-facing product
11:39	erikos	right - so that is probably something Soas should care about
11:39		Sugar - itself, needs mostly a bug tracker
11:39		in the first place
11:39	tomeu	SeanDaly: that's what I mean, if we want to ship end-user products, we cannot behave like just a open source project
11:40	erikos	SeanDaly: that is part of the ongoing discussion - if Soas is a Sugar Labs product
11:40	tomeu	I guess we can inspire in mozilla about user support and QA
11:40	SeanDaly	tomeu: yes... to obtain teacher buy-in which I consider vital for Sugar's success, we have to be obtaining feedback from them
11:40	tomeu	erikos: I think it's too late and it has been decided it is
11:40	walterbender	tomeu: so maybe a separate entity (or entities) run the SoaS product support...
11:40	erikos	tomeu: when, who?
11:41	SeanDaly	I haven't looked at feedback models although we said we would work on this 3 weeks ago the launch is priority
11:41	tomeu	erikos: well, it's being announced as a product, right?
11:41		walterbender: that would simplify things, I think
11:41	SeanDaly	"SoaS a product for Q3 2009"
11:41	erikos	tomeu: i think if we want to - we can still change that
11:42	walterbender	maybe ^a product^will be launched
11:42	SeanDaly	we have the right to be inefficient, but only until a product is released
11:42		Then we will need to be more efficient
11:42	jt4sugar	We should also have a user tracker for teachers and students-Start with upcoming teacher survey
11:43	SeanDaly	Put another way, I feel this personally, we have an obligation to improve for the hundreds of thousands of Sugar kids & teachers
11:43	erikos	clearly thinks that we should have a seperate entity handling Soas
11:43	SeanDaly	erikos: separate structure & people you mean?
11:44	erikos	SeanDaly: separating a product from the community
11:44	SeanDaly	the product will be downloadable... Firefox is a product, Miro is a product
11:45		jt4sugar: +1
11:45	tomeu	how can we get feedback in a scalable way?
11:46	SeanDaly	tomeu: that's a good way to phrase the question
11:46	tomeu	I was expecting that would be local labs to get it, then digest it and present it to the global lab
11:46	erikos	ok let's put it this way - is Sugar on Ubuntu a Sugar Labs product?
11:46	caroline	when do we need this feedback process in place?
11:46	erikos	Soas - is for me the same
11:46	tomeu	as I was understanding that local labs is our way to scalability
11:46	mchua	interjects - do we need to discuss sticks or the printable PDF brochure before continuing? The Sugar Stories update is that I'm writing them this week, and that's it.
11:47	caroline	I agree, we've done this discussion many times. Is it time sensative?
11:47	SeanDaly	erikos: If I never see the Ubuntu desktop, it's a Sugar Labs product from a userland point of view
11:47	dirakx	tomeu: +1, local labs could help in giving scalability feedback.
11:47	SeanDaly	OK caroline's right we need to move along erikos I want to better uunderstand your concerns let's continue offline
11:47	caroline	I'd love to get a printable brochure so I could goto staples and ask for USB sticks
11:47	tomeu	SeanDaly: not offline! ;)
11:47		but in another moment, sure
11:48	dirakx	local labs could be helping also in giving support for local ''costumers''.
11:48	SeanDaly	caroline: that's point 4 and I propose to have it ready by Thursday
11:48	erikos	SeanDaly: sure, did not meant to interrupt
11:48	caroline	thanks!
11:48	walterbender	what are the contents of this brochure?
11:48	SeanDaly	tomeu: I meant not here & now ;-)
11:48		walterbender: digest of the static site
11:48		erikos: no problem it's an important subject
11:49		walterbender: the idea is a printable handout with the logo, introduction, explanation, screenshots
11:49		But what we really need are released photos of kids using Sugar
11:50	walterbender	SeanDaly: I wish we had more of that... plenty of kids using laptops :(
11:50	SeanDaly	walterbender: the PDF brochure will be downloadable from the site and hopefully will land on teachers' desks after our PR
11:50	jt4sugar	I'm sure Birmingham, Al can get you the pictures you're looking for
11:51	SeanDaly	In fact I had an idea, to take a photo of a kid looking at that big colorful liveCD homepage on a PC
11:52		jt4sugar: Really?? do you have a contact who could help us? Does the school have signed releases for the kids?
11:52	caroline	I talked to someone from Birmingham last week
11:52		but we are all quite a ways away.
11:52	SeanDaly	Reminder, we have submitted a draft release to the SFC, waiting for feedback
11:52		OK I would like to talk about Sugar Labs branded USB sticks, if I may
11:53	caroline	Are you looking for a photo for this press release? what time frame?
11:53	SeanDaly	caroline: for the PDF brochure, in time for the press release so... this weekend at the latests (!)
11:53	caroline	hmm I can get white kids this weekend probably.
11:53	SeanDaly	Not the end of the world if we don't have it, but humans always better than just screenshots
11:53	caroline	just borrow some from a friend
11:54	mchua	I have a 5-year-old (Chinese) cousin. She uses Sugar incessantly. I have a camera, and will be seeing her tomorrow. I'm pretty sure her parents will be fine with it.
11:54	jt4sugar	mchua: Mel can you ask SJ for key contact down there
11:54	SeanDaly	mchua: it could be the back of her head as she looks at a Sugar screen
11:54	caroline	maybe put out the release on IAEP and tell people what you want and see what we get in.
11:54	mchua	+1 to caroline's idea.
11:54		I'll also (if her parents are OK with it) get some photos of cousins tomorrow night
11:54	walterbender	jt4sugar: are you referring to Birmingham?
11:54	SeanDaly	The advantagge of a PC screen is: more colors, bigger, different from XO "proving" it runs on other platforms
11:55	mchua	maybe the 5-year-old playing the Activity her 13-year-old sister made. ;)
11:55	jt4sugar	walterbender: Yes
11:55	walterbender	jt4sugar: I can provide contacts
11:55	caroline	I will also forward the request directly to the Carol from Birmingham.
11:55		but lets spread it widely.
11:55	SeanDaly	caroline: I'd like to do that with the PDF brochure but the problem with the press release is, as soon as it is on a web-facing list it is "released"
11:56	mchua	who is sending out the "plz send pics" help request? I think that's all we need to move to sticks and finish up
11:56	jt4sugar	walterbender: You would think they have many press releasable pictures
11:56	SeanDaly	So... re Sugar Labs branded USBs, I had wanted to make a choice by yesterday (!) I haven't yet
11:56	caroline	My thought was post the photo release document and ask people to email you photos WITH release forms.
11:56	SeanDaly	caroline: the SFC hasn't yet approved the text... I will ask dfarning to ping them
11:57	caroline	ok, lets get something within 24 hours if we can.
11:57	SeanDaly	the sublitted text is in the marketing list archives
11:57		s/sublitted/submitted
11:58		walterbender: any luck liaising with OLPC folks re: importing sticks from China?
11:58	walterbender	SeanDaly: they said they'd help, but I am waiting for specifics from you
11:58	SeanDaly	I also need to ping Christian, he had promised to mock up a color-inverted logo for a colored stick otherwise I'll just try to do it
11:59		walterbender: OK I had located 2 Asian suppliers inexpensive & quick i will forward info to you
12:00		Still on track to get 100 branded sticks to caroline by April 1st, but barely
12:00		OK let's finish with Sugar STories, mel what can you tell us?
12:01	mchua	I'm writing them this week, the mailing list will have them this weekend.
12:02	SeanDaly	Great! will we be able to put 2 or 3 of them up on the site for Monday do you think?
12:02	mchua	Going to profile Olin first, since I have ready access to them, they've been doing interesting things for a long time, and we want to do outreach to uni groups specifically. If there's time and consent, I'd like to do caroline. ;)
12:02		Yes.
12:02	SeanDaly	Not necessarily spotlighted on the static site, a wiki page?
12:02	mchua	Yes.
12:02	sdziallas	has got to run for dinner, will be back in some minutes ;)
12:03	mchua	There hasn't been anything going on behind the scenes since last week; I've just been waiting to be in the same physical location as the people I'm profiling.
12:03	SeanDaly	OK have we hit all the high notes?
12:03	mchua	I think so. :)
12:03	walterbender	mchua: if you want any copy-editing...
12:03	SeanDaly	Should we do a last marketing meeting before the press release?
12:04	mchua	walterbender: totally. I'll send it to the list and beg for feedback/copyedits.
12:04	walterbender	SeanDaly: I'm around...
12:04	SeanDaly	Friday for example, not conflicting with another meeting?
12:04		walterbender: OK but I need to run too soonish
12:04	mchua	SeanDaly: YES PLEASE - I think the hour right before we push the "send the release out!" should be an "I'll be on IRC, join me, we need to launch A B and C" hour of sanitychecks and massive sending-outs.
12:05	walterbender	There is an Activity Meeting Friday... but just pick a time...
12:05	SeanDaly	walterbender: I was confused enough today, what'a good seggestion for EDT? 11 AM?
12:06	walterbender	SeanDaly: doesn't matter for me...
12:06	SeanDaly	When is the Activity Meeting?
12:06	walterbender	SeanDaly: right now, it is 12:05 EST
12:06	tomeu	you mean activity team meeting?
12:06	SeanDaly	I think you mean EDT ;-)
12:07	walterbender	the Activity Meeting is scheduled for 13:00 EST on Friday
12:07	SeanDaly	the time on your clock :D
12:07	walterbender	SeanDaly: what time is it UTC right now? 1400?
12:07		or 1500?
12:07	SeanDaly	OK how about 12:00 EST (11:00 EDT) on Friday for prelaunch Marketing Meeting?
12:08		It's 1700 in UTC+1
12:08	walterbender	OK. See you then.
12:09	SeanDaly	OK sounds good winding down this meeting many thanks to everyone!
12:09		going once
12:09		going twice
12:09		#endmeeting

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#sugar-meeting, 2009-03-10