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#sugar-meeting, 2009-03-06

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
10:02 walterbender Welcome to the first Education Team meeting
10:02 The agenda is:
10:03 1. introductions
10:03 2. discussion of goals
10:03 3. survey for the Uruguay teachers gathering
10:04 mchua http://sugarlabs.org/go/EducationTeam#Mission
10:05 walterbender 4. decide on a regular meeting time (e.g., it is 2am in Melbourne)
10:05 #TOPIC introductions
10:06 FGrose Hello, Fred in Rochester, NY
10:06 walterbender I  send regrets from Tony Forster, an engineer and educator from Melbourne
10:06 caroline Hi, Caroline Meeks, Winchester MA
10:06 jt4sugar Hi, John Tierney Rochester,MI
10:06 manugupta Hi,  Manu Gupta from New Delhi, India
10:07 rita hi, Rita Freudenberg, Magdeburg, Germany
10:07 walterbender Walter: Newton, MA, USA
10:07 deepank Hi, Deepank Gupta from New Delhi, India
10:07 walterbender walterbender.org
10:07 http://tonyforster.blogspot.com/
10:08 anyone else who comes in, please feel free to say hi.
10:08 tomeu hi, Tomeu Vizoso, developer lurking here
10:08 garycmartin Hiya, Gary from Edinburgh, Scotland, UK.
10:08 mchua waves
10:08 walterbender quick question: anyone here a classroom teacher?
10:08 mchua Mel Chua from Boston, MA
10:09 I'm not, but I live with one on the weekends (kindergarten, aunt).
10:09 walterbender and I live with one too, my wife :)
10:09 erikos walterbender: my wife as well :)
10:10 rita I'm teaching teachers at university
10:10 walterbender maybe a good lead in to Topic 2, goals. My number one goal for this group is to get more teachers involved
10:11 to date, we have had some feedback, but day-to-day involvement has been exceptional.
10:11 maybe that is too much to expect
10:11 tomeu my girlfriend as well ;)
10:11 erikos tomeu: you should get married then ;p
10:12 tomeu actually teaches in a 1-to-1 setting, but high schoolers
10:12 mchua Most teachers in the US are in class at this time, but might be able to make a weekend meeting?
10:12 tomeu no time for that!
10:12 walterbender or maybe, as we were just discussing in another meeting, out interface to teachers is wrong (IRC)
10:12 garycmartin tomeu: you have time for a girlfriend, wow ;-)
10:12 tomeu garycmartin: I'm also amazed
10:12 mchua yeah, I was about to mention that IRC might not be the best medium.
10:12 I've seen educators using twitter a lot, in incredibly amazing ways.
10:12 walterbender garycmartin: teachers are very patient... my wife puts up with me :)
10:13 tomeu mchua: what would you suggest for real time meetings?
10:13 rita teachers are using facebook as well, writing blogs
10:13 tomeu rita: so only async?
10:13 walterbender rita: +1
10:14 maybe async is OK.
10:14 rita tomeu, I found that out from a discussion on LinkedIn
10:14 walterbender Bill Kerr and Tony Forster's blogs are very valuable feedback
10:14 caroline Does Sugar have a facebook group?
10:14 tomeu I personally like async with occasional in-person meetups, but not all people think the same
10:15 walterbender There is a social networking site, Classroom2.0, that is exclusively education topics
10:15 Sugar has no facebook group, AFAIK
10:15 tomeu this week was created sugarbrazil in ning
10:15 rita here is a link to the discusison, but sure you have to be registered to read it http://www.linkedin.com/groupA[…]1236352462687_3_2
10:15 walterbender Nor a presence in twitter
10:16 jt4sugar Need to think about Virtual Forums for meetings that can be recorded and viewed later
10:16 caroline A Classroom 2.0 group is a good idea
10:16 garycmartin caroline: OLPC and G1G1 related facebook groups, but not noticed a Sugar spcific one.
10:16 tomeu sugabrasil, actually
10:16 rita yes, and on LinkedIn there is a ISTE group
10:16 mchua tomeu, I would suggest using twitter for a primary "keep in touch" channel, a mailing list for announcements, and then an "if you need to chat with someone in person, use this chatroom <url to browser-irc>" - I get the feeling that teachers are so ridiculously busy that expecting them to show up simultaneously each week might be a stretch
10:16 walterbender but we need to make sure that there is someone responible to each channel
10:16 mchua but I'm not actually a teacher, so ignore at will
10:16 tomeu any educator here that knows portuguese is welcome to join http://sugarbrasil.ning.com/
10:17 walterbender and http://etoysbrasil.ning.com/
10:17 FGrose VOIP like Skype would be more approachable for a smallish group for occasional meetings (that include a text chat)
10:17 tomeu mchua: olpc-sur seems to work somewhat, but is difficult to say if would work for all teachers in uruguay equally well
10:18 but was a bit fun at the start when people had to explain what was netiquette, etc
10:18 walterbender one question for the survey is what channels do they use to communicate?
10:18 mchua anyway, maybe we can make a list of these options and present it to the teachers we know and ask what they'd prefer.
10:18 tomeu yup
10:18 walterbender let me set the TOPIC to #2
10:19 mchua walterbender beats me to everything. :) which ones they use, or which ones they'd be willing to learn to use.
10:19 whee!
10:19 walterbender #TOPIC goals (and means, as we have been discussing)
10:19 the communication should be goal driven
10:20 exchanging ideas, stories, recipies
10:20 code
10:20 FGrose needs
10:20 walterbender yes...ideas for improvement with the developers
10:20 there have been a few examples to date: sqrt in turtle art
10:21 labyrinth
10:21 portfolio
10:21 and a few examples of things happening complete in the field
10:21 3-4 activities in Uruguay
10:21 caroline I need concrete lessons and what we should teach teachers and kids if we have them for a few hours.
10:22 garycmartin raises his hand for labyrinth - I need to release some more tweaks
10:22 walterbender let's perhaps compile a list: (1) a generic workshop plan?
10:22 tomeu garycmartin: want me to announce in olpc-sur?
10:23 caroline I have a goal of getting in front of a couple groups of kids and/or parents+teachers this spring and using Sugar for some sort of lesson.
10:23 garycmartin tomeu: can I ping you on that when ready. I'd like it vaguly kid friendly first.
10:23 walterbender there is lots of material out there but it is hard to find unless you know where to look...
10:23 cjb the http://lists.sugarlabs.org/arc[…]/fourthgrademath/ folks seem like a good example of developers who could really use some feedback from educators as they develop
10:24 jt4sugar Set up email accounts for each activity and have Uruguay Teachers send lessons they have done with each
10:24 tomeu garycmartin: ok, though teachers we re already using the very early versions with some success
10:24 rita we are working on materials for an introductora etoys course
10:25 mchua caroline, Sandra's crew at Olin wants to work on exactly that sort of thing (it's taking a long time for stuff at CFS to get set up and ready for them to do that, though). will ping you in pm about redeploying that team in your direction.
10:26 walterbender jt4sugar: interesting idea: but until the volume is higher, maybe all of it gets routed back into IAEP?
10:26 garycmartin tomeu: yes, I guess it's fine for curious teachers, but I plan on making the UI much more intuitive.
10:26 tomeu ok
10:26 walterbender jt4sugar: with a tag line, e.g. [LABYRINTH] in the subject?
10:26 jt4sugar I think you specifically target them through deployment team there
10:27 tomeu likes jt4sugar's idea
10:27 caroline I do too, and we can always forward emails different places as volume grows or shrinks
10:27 walterbender maybe someone with better Mailman chops than me can set this up?
10:27 jt4sugar If you do it for each country-Localization and language translation will be easier
10:28 garycmartin walterbender: regarding maths I've been tinkering with a solution based on PDFs. You can make very simple click through math/quiz games using pdf linking with normal tools. You can also add JavaScript code into PDF for some custom magic.
10:28 walterbender jt4sugar: may by language group at first... I'd like to see more communication between Uruguay and Peru, for example
10:28 garycmartin walterbender: I'm basing 'levels' off of Greg's recent blogs on maths.
10:29 walterbender garycmartin: I am working a group in Peru on a simple framework that uses ISMAP-like ideas for simple authoring of games
10:29 tomeu garycmartin: cool, you should send email to the 4thgrade ml to give it some life
10:29 walterbender can we agree to take as an action item to set up these lists?
10:30 garycmartin walterbender: using such PDFs works already in read, so sharing, and page resuming is already good.
10:30 walterbender and work out the details off line?
10:31 garycmartin raises in interesting point in terms of what we can be doing as a group: developing more generic frameworks that are useful to the teacher
10:31 garycmartin tomeu: there's a ML for that, wow I'll never remember ;-)
10:32 mchua wait, sorry, what were the goals we had for teacher participation? I'm getting lost with all the talk about tools.
10:32 garycmartin walterbender: PDF is a crossplatform solution, I'd also want to make a pdf template activity for Sugar, so that content becomes a 1st class object activity.
10:33 walterbender mchua: I am thinking in terms of a framework in which a teacher can easily author and share materials
10:33 jt4sugar I think we should all go out and speak with 3-5 Teachers and just ask them how we can help them
10:34 walterbender jt4sugar: we are (hopefully) gong to survey 600 teachers next week
10:34 jt4sugar walterbender: understand
10:35 FGrose http://www.mail-archive.com/ia[…]org/msg02644.html has a reference to DART that worth reviewing
10:36 jt4sugar walterbender: Along with survey can you ask them for a blueprint for other teachers to use
10:37 walterbender jt4sugar: the survey is the next topic...
10:37 just to reign in the discussion, do we have consensus on the goals of the education team?
10:37 http://sugarlabs.org/go/EducationTeam
10:38 we seem to have jumped into a discussion of means, which is fine (and more fun)
10:40 maybe for next time, everyone can bring 1-2 means to the discussion that we can discuss in order: what, why, how, by whom
10:40 mchua consensus on mission, but not goals - I agree that Edu team should "explain why Sugar is an ideal platform for learning, and to provide guidance and feedback to those who are working on how Sugar enhances learning," but we're missing "and here's the concrete target we'll try to hit first in order to do that"
10:40 walterbender mchua: good point: we don't have and goals or targets.
10:41 it does seem like we can set three obvious target audiences for our goals:
10:42 (1) OLPC deployments; (2) Sugar on a Stick deployments; (3) non-OLPC netbook deployments
10:42 mchua that way we can then go and ask teachers how can we reach those goals in the way most useful to them.
10:42 and (4) teachers interested in doing (1),(2), or (3) but who haven't yet gotten started?
10:43 walterbender #1 is teachers, mostly on Latin America; #2 is teachers and parens everywhere; #3 maybe more targeted, Magellan as an example
10:43 mchua: I think your #4 overlaps with #2
10:44 tomeu will be interesting to get to work with teachers in portugal when they get sugar in a few months
10:44 walterbender practically speaking, the only way (except as tomeu points out, there are some #3s out there)
10:45 tomeu it will be pretty simple for them to get it on the laptops of their kids
10:45 caroline since most #2 and #3 either don't exist or just about to get started maybe we should be focused on helping them start.
10:46 is there a way we can help new teachers and get them used to contributing to a community of practice?
10:46 walterbender caroline: +1
10:46 which is back to your question of means earlier
10:46 caroline how do we figure out what they need to get started?
10:46 walterbender what to do with a group of teachers if you have 2 hours?
10:46 mchua define the community of practice we want them to join. right now we have sort of a vague "join us!" and I'm not sure if I could give a good response if someone replied "join what?"
10:46 caroline or 4 hours or 8 hours.
10:47 walterbender mchua: the 10000s of teachers using Sugar in their classrooms
10:47 caroline I think we have to say to them. Here is how you get started with Sugar and then Sugar coat our CoP and hook them into it.
10:47 Teachers don't want CoP they want help getting started.
10:48 walterbender caroline: what CoP offers is help from other teachers, not geeks
10:48 caroline Walter, dowe have a way of hooking the 1000s to the new 1st world people comng online in the next 6 months?
10:48 mchua I'm going to start publishing, on Mondays, a "if you have 3 hours of time, here's something to do!" series - would that be helpful?
10:49 right now the activities are geared towards not-just-classrooms (the ones in my queue all involve testing stuff, go figure)
10:49 walterbender mchua: if one of the somethings is providing interesting somethings
10:49 taking on mchua's role: we have 11 minutes left
10:49 mchua ah, so "make $foo", not just "do $foo"
10:49 manugupta caroline: (Teachers don't want CoP they want help getting started.) +1
10:50 walterbender can we switch topics to the survey?
10:50 jt4sugar Asking Teachers in Uraguay, Paraguay, and Peru to tell us how they would get other teachers involved might help
10:50 mchua walterbender: SIR! switching topics to the survey SIR!
10:50 walterbender I will write up a summary of Topic 2 with the open questions.
10:50 #TOPIC 3 - the survey
10:51 We have a great opportunity to survey 600 teachers in Uruguay next week.
10:51 We need to come up with questions
10:51 and instrument
10:51 and people to execute it (in Spanish)
10:52 mchua what is the survey for? is there a goal for it, or any restrictions, or a list of all the stuff we already know about those teachers so we don't ask again and can design the survey better?
10:53 walterbender the goal is to extract as much feedback as we can from these teachers who have been using Sugar for 1 year in their classrooms
10:53 jt4sugar What activities are you using? For what purpose? Have you designed a lesson you can send us?
10:53 walterbender everything from how would they recommend getting started
10:53 to what are the roadblocks
10:53 to jt4sugar's questions
10:53 mchua ok - is there a time or length limit we should stick to, so we don't end up asking everything and putting the teachers through 12-hour interviews? ;)
10:53 FGrose How much time will the teachers have to execute the survey? In the conference room, or later online?
10:54 walterbender and some feedback on the 0.84-0.86 diections.
10:54 mchua and FGrose just phrased it way better than I did. Yay!
10:54 tomeu maybe both?
10:54 perhaps some may choose to fill it back in the class with their students?
10:54 or some may meet with other teachers are their school and do it together?
10:54 walterbender I think we should have the survey available on-line so that we can let the teachers know about it during the week-long workshop and remind them periodically in the week to fill it out
10:55 tomeu I think we should leave all this possibilities open
10:55 walterbender the Uruguay teachers have internet access
10:56 maybe a section of the survey is separable for them to bring to their students...
10:56 but I think we want to have a concrete end to make sure people do it
10:57 mchua may I suggest a "no longer than 1 hour" completion time as a strawman to work from?
10:57 FGrose A blog polling service would have those features and allow individuals to submit blog comments for individual ideas
10:57 walterbender I don't think we'll get questions written in real time now, but maybe post them in the wiki over the next 24 hours?
10:57 garycmartin mchua: needs to be shorter than 1hr!!!
10:57 jt4sugar Believe should get as much educational info in 1st survey ask if they would like to do follow-up survey for some of the other info
10:57 walterbender FGrose: many of these teachers have blogs, so we can ask them to include a URL
10:58 mchua garycmartin: 30min, then. I'm just trying to set /some/ hard upper bound. any upper bound.
10:58 walterbender: +1 to wiki for questions
10:58 garycmartin mchua: 15min would be my call unless you want junk responses half way through.
10:58 :-b
10:59 walterbender I think garycmartin is correct.
10:59 jt4sugar If you have to many questions they wont have time to tell you how they use the activities
10:59 rita maybe there could be a short version and an extended one for teachers who want to communicate more?
10:59 walterbender But we can open a window for more feedback and maybe make a class project for them to survey their kids?
11:00 FGrose If we could structure some of the questions & answers, the blog polls will do the statistics
11:01 walterbender we can continue this discussion in a moment, but as it is 1 minute until our hour is up, regarding Topic #4, I'll set up a wiki page for hat one too... preferred meeting times.
11:01 manugupta A combination of multiple choice questions and asking for comments on certain areas might reduce time.
11:01 walterbender #ACTION: set up wiki pages for gathering survey questions
11:01 #ACTION set ip wiki page for soliciting preferred meeting times
11:02 #ACTION learn to type :)
11:02 manugupta: +1
11:02 does anyone recommend a survey tool? (that works in Spanish?)
11:03 mchua walterbender, we set up an open-source survey tool at Olin that worked really well, I'll see if I can get the link for you
11:03 walterbender mchua: i18n?
11:03 mchua walterbender: I'll check. I suspect so.
11:04 hpachas-PE walterbender, hola
11:04 FGrose Lot's of social networking polls & blog site polling tools but I don't know how they work for more indepth surveys
11:04 walterbender would everyone be willing to author some questions (and ask their significant others who happen to be teachers for advice)?
11:05 hpachas-PE: hola
11:05 hpachas-PE walterbender, la 8.3 esta disponible para instalar en XO?
11:05 walterbender hpachas-PE: we are discussing questions for a teacher survey
11:05 mchua walterbender: ah, we used phpsurveyor before it was called http://www.limesurvey.org and yes, it's got massive amounts of i18n it seems.
11:05 walterbender hpachas-PE: are there examples from MEC in Peru we can see?
11:06 FGrose (For the meeting log on curriculum sharing): http://wiki.bssd.org/index.php/Main_Page
11:07 (and a nice testimonial):http://www.mail-archive.com/ia[…]org/msg02757.html
11:09 walterbender I want to be disciplined about time (and get Tomeu back to coding), so perhaps we should continue offline, gathering questions?
11:09 garycmartin walterbender: +1
11:10 tomeu was back debugging ;)
11:10 hpachas-PE: puedo decirte como probar 0.84 en una XO
11:10 hpachas-PE tomeu, excelente!!
11:10 walterbender OK. I'll get going on setting up the wiki pages... Everyone, please add questions and everyone: thank you for joining us this morning (in Boston)
11:11 #endmeeting

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