| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 11:06 | homunq | ooOOoo |
| 11:06 | erikos | roll call - who is here |
| 11:06 | homunq | stands up and gestures welcomingly to the chair |
| 11:06 | FGrose | listening in |
| 11:06 | tomeu | here! |
| 11:06 | walterbender | says hi |
| 11:07 | erikos | hi walterbender, tomeu FGrose and homunq |
| 11:07 | thanks for making it | |
| 11:07 | AGENDA: | |
| 11:07 | a) 0.84.1 - We want to do a 0.84 coordinated bugfix release. Let's find | |
| 11:07 | a date for that (we welcome packagers input here to sync as most as | |
| 11:07 | possible with the distributions shipping dates). And any other item we | |
| 11:07 | need to discuss about that. | |
| 11:07 | b) Kickstart 0.86 - the mouth is still sticky from 0.84 development and | |
| 11:07 | this is the best moment to talk about what is next. Branching was one | |
| 11:07 | part (see Branching email) getting feedback on specific features is | |
| 11:07 | another one. Lets discuss what else needs to happen. | |
| 11:08 | other last minute additions? | |
| 11:08 | walterbender | erikos: dare we discuss release notes here? |
| 11:08 | erikos | walterbender: ok - point taken |
| 11:09 | c) 0.84 release notes | |
| 11:09 | . | |
| 11:09 | let's start with point a | |
| 11:09 | checks the date for F11 | |
| 11:09 | sdziallas | is here, too |
| 11:11 | tomeu | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JauntyReleaseSchedule |
| 11:11 | erikos | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki[…]eases/11/Schedule |
| 11:11 | hi sdziallas | |
| 11:11 | 2009-03-03 Feature Freeze--Planning & Development Ends | |
| 11:12 | tomeu | http://wiki.mandriva.com/en/20[…]nt_planning:_2009.1_planning_and_delivery |
| 11:12 | erikos | sdziallas: what do you think - is 2009-04-14 Final Development Freeze our final date? |
| 11:13 | sdziallas | erikos: final development freeze means the date when rawhide gets frozen again and no new packages are allowed without approval from rel-eng |
| 11:14 | erikos: so, if we wanted to get it directly into F11, yes (we could push it after F11 release as an update, but doing it beforehead seems to be better, imo) | |
| 11:14 | erikos | sdziallas: ok - so we should have our 0.84.1 in by then |
| 11:14 | sdziallas | erikos: yeah... :) |
| 11:15 | erikos | sdziallas: good - i mean looks doable - one month left to go |
| 11:15 | tomeu: ok lets see what ubuntu has to tell | |
| 11:17 | morgs: ^^^ | |
| 11:17 | tomeu | ok, then I guess that if we don't get enough testing until 14/04, then we would need to do a 0.84.2 to get into updates? |
| 11:17 | maybe April 9th is ubuntu's freeze? | |
| 11:17 | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FinalFreeze | |
| 11:18 | erikos | tomeu: yeah looks a bit like |
| 11:18 | tomeu | anyone knows if sugar is in universe/multiverse? |
| 11:18 | erikos | tomeu: but morgan was so busy last weeks - so i wonder a bit |
| 11:18 | tomeu: if it was not before | |
| 11:19 | unmadindu | hello (sorry I'm late) |
| 11:19 | tomeu | erikos: before? |
| 11:19 | erikos | hi unmadindu |
| 11:19 | tomeu | oh, before was feature freeze |
| 11:20 | which means no new packages and only bug fixes | |
| 11:20 | erikos | ok |
| 11:20 | hopes we get read in fedora :( | |
| 11:20 | tomeu | fedora had it on 3/3 |
| 11:21 | erikos | really hopes |
| 11:21 | sdziallas | erikos: we're waiting for the cvs stuff, right? |
| 11:21 | erikos | sdziallas: yes |
| 11:22 | sdziallas | crosses fingers, too |
| 11:22 | erikos | ok can check that later |
| 11:23 | tomeu: so yeah 16. in ubuntu land looks like the date | |
| 11:23 | tomeu | erikos: final freeze? |
| 11:23 | erikos | tomeu: yes |
| 11:24 | tomeu: oh 9th | |
| 11:24 | mandriva is not as verbose though | |
| 11:24 | tomeu | apr 9th, yeah |
| 11:24 | erikos | but if we are ok for ubutu and fedora - i would say - we are fine |
| 11:25 | tomeu | yeah, they are still working out their relationship with the community |
| 11:26 | erikos | lets say our stuff should be packaged by the 3rd |
| 11:27 | tomeu | sounds good |
| 11:27 | erikos | which means we should calculate one week for the time it takes to build the packages from the tarballs |
| 11:27 | i mean in fedora i can do it in a few hours but i have no idea how long it takes in ubuntu | |
| 11:28 | so last tarball release is the 27th? | |
| 11:28 | of march | |
| 11:28 | tomeu | in debian/ubuntu land everything seems to take aaaaaages |
| 11:28 | erikos: will have gotten enough testing by then? | |
| 11:29 | erikos | tomeu: do we count on testing from the distributions? |
| 11:30 | tomeu: or more done with Soas? | |
| 11:30 | tomeu | erikos: right now, I would say on soas |
| 11:31 | though all testing is good | |
| 11:31 | and the more diverse, the better | |
| 11:31 | erikos | beta releases are coming out the 24th and the 26th |
| 11:34 | tomeu: lets aim for the 27th | |
| 11:34 | tomeu: we can still do releases of single components after that date | |
| 11:34 | tomeu | erikos: sure, and apply patches as well |
| 11:34 | erikos | tomeu: i really fear the time it takes for the packaging |
| 11:35 | tomeu | erikos: but it's only ubuntu that takes time, right? |
| 11:35 | erikos | tomeu: yeah |
| 11:35 | tomeu | alsroot and you are quite quick getting packages in your distros |
| 11:36 | and ubuntu doesn't have more time? | |
| 11:37 | erikos | i can offer the 3rd |
| 11:37 | tomeu | :p |
| 11:37 | erikos | ok lets take this then |
| 11:38 | and another coordinated release the 20th? | |
| 11:38 | as a beta? | |
| 11:39 | or weekly releases? | |
| 11:40 | tomeu: ? | |
| 11:40 | tomeu | not sure, it's a bit trying to read the future :/ |
| 11:40 | erikos | ok beta freeze on fedora is the 10th |
| 11:40 | tomeu | erikos: we are doing this for packagers |
| 11:41 | erikos | and beta freeze on ubuntu the 19th |
| 11:41 | tomeu: i mean generating tarballs is not much overhead | |
| 11:41 | tomeu | true |
| 11:42 | erikos | tomeu: where we have no changes - we just don't do it |
| 11:42 | tomeu: or we can even say - glucose weekly | |
| 11:42 | tomeu | sure, sure |
| 11:42 | I agree | |
| 11:42 | erikos | tomeu: all sucrose the 20th and the 3rd |
| 11:43 | ok, nice done with this | |
| 11:43 | i will update the schedule and post it | |
| 11:43 | after the meeting of course | |
| 11:44 | if anyone has worries - please speak up now, or... | |
| 11:44 | 5 | |
| 11:44 | 4 | |
| 11:44 | 3 | |
| 11:44 | 2 | |
| 11:44 | 1 | |
| 11:44 | 0.5 | |
| 11:44 | next item | |
| 11:44 | b) | |
| 11:44 | Kickstart 0.86 - the mouth is still sticky from 0.84 development and | |
| 11:44 | this is the best moment to talk about what is next. Branching was one | |
| 11:44 | part (see Branching email) getting feedback on specific features is | |
| 11:44 | another one. Lets discuss what else needs to happen. | |
| 11:44 | . | |
| 11:45 | any questions regarding branching? | |
| 11:45 | ok | |
| 11:46 | now i hope to wake a few people up | |
| 11:46 | tomeu | heh |
| 11:46 | erikos | 0.84 Features |
| 11:46 | tomeu | 84 or 86? |
| 11:46 | erikos | it worked! |
| 11:46 | 0.86 Features | |
| 11:46 | hmmmmm this magical word *Features* | |
| 11:46 | sdziallas | has got to run... |
| 11:47 | I'll be back in two hours or so ;) | |
| 11:47 | erikos | sdziallas: run quick before the Features get you! |
| 11:47 | sdziallas | upcoming SoaS-2 release soonish :) |
| 11:47 | tomeu | so well, we need to try to get people to tell what they need |
| 11:47 | erikos | what is the plan to determine what we will work on? |
| 11:47 | sdziallas: nice! | |
| 11:47 | tomeu | if not, we just code on what we like and that's all |
| 11:48 | sdziallas | ttyl. :) |
| 11:49 | erikos | tomeu: ok, so this means a feedback loop |
| 11:49 | tomeu: something, i am just wondering is - can we get feedback from the olpc deployments? | |
| 11:49 | tomeu: will they use 0.84? | |
| 11:49 | tomeu | well, in real life I don't think so |
| 11:50 | at least at time for 0.86 | |
| 11:50 | but that's not strictly needed | |
| 11:50 | erikos | tomeu: but maybe they would have ideas as well - that are not 'move this button' |
| 11:50 | tomeu: more deeper ideas | |
| 11:50 | tomeu | that's what I expect |
| 11:51 | erikos | ok |
| 11:51 | tomeu | I don't think they are completely happy with whatever version of sugar they use now, and I don't think we can fixed it in the newer versions |
| 11:51 | erikos | so - how would a feedback loop look like in congrete |
| 11:52 | tomeu: you mean it is a fundamental problem? | |
| 11:52 | tomeu: they will never like it? | |
| 11:52 | tomeu | hmm, no |
| 11:53 | I mean that they have interesting things to tell regardless of what version they are using | |
| 11:53 | I guess that sentence was quite crappy ;) | |
| 11:53 | we are not asking them to test 0.84, but to tell us what they need so we can try to cater better for their needs in 0.86 | |
| 11:53 | erikos | ok - agreed then |
| 11:53 | right | |
| 11:54 | tomeu | so well, I guess we need to keep insisting |
| 11:55 | erikos | do we have means to gather that information? |
| 11:55 | i mean trac and email are maybe not the right tool for it | |
| 11:55 | tomeu | erikos: I'm trying to gather people who want to relay that feedback: http://sugarlabs.org/go/DeploymentTeam/Places |
| 11:55 | erikos | oh true - forgot about that |
| 11:56 | FGrose | support-gang/Adam are starting to get more involved with contributors program and OLPCorps |
| 11:56 | walterbender | tomeu: I wonder if we could get a survey done for the meeting in Uruguay? |
| 11:56 | tomeu | the ones with a ? are just tentative, need to be confirmed by then |
| 11:56 | walterbender: now that's an idea! | |
| 11:56 | walterbender | something simple, on line |
| 11:56 | tomeu | maybe we can ask fernando? |
| 11:57 | erikos | walterbender: which meeting in uruguay? |
| 11:57 | walterbender | tomeu: will you ask him? and we can work together on the questions |
| 11:58 | tomeu | walterbender: there's some workshops for teachers that are going to happen soon |
| 11:58 | oops | |
| 11:58 | walterbender | looks for the URL |
| 11:58 | tomeu | erikos: ^ |
| 11:58 | walterbender: sure | |
| 11:59 | http://translate.google.com/tr[…]ic%2F&sl=es&tl=en | |
| 11:59 | walterbender | http://www.fedaro.info/jornadas/ver_todo_ape.php is the attendee list |
| 12:00 | tomeu: do you know what build they will be using at the workshop? | |
| 12:01 | tomeu | walterbender: I guess what they have on the teachers' xos, that's 656 AFAIK |
| 12:01 | erikos | thanks for the links |
| 12:01 | walterbender | tomeu: :( |
| 12:02 | tomeu: could we get someone there to demo 0.84? | |
| 12:02 | homunq | that is very strange - when I *paste* the link in my browser, it appears without the google translate stuff |
| 12:02 | tomeu | walterbender: we can ask |
| 12:02 | homunq | magic, because that's what I wanted it to do |
| 12:02 | tomeu | homunq: I guess it's because you have your browser in es? |
| 12:02 | as an accepted language? | |
| 12:03 | walterbender | tomeu: we should think about concrete questions for the survey |
| 12:03 | tomeu | walterbender: yeah, in the mailing list? wiki? |
| 12:03 | erikos | tomeu: all those teachers work with the XO in their daily lives, right? |
| 12:04 | walterbender | si |
| 12:04 | homunq | I think it is konversation which somehow knows I speak Spanish... |
| 12:04 | anyway | |
| 12:04 | tomeu | erikos: yup |
| 12:04 | walterbender | tomeu: in the lists pointing to a wiki page |
| 12:04 | tomeu | ok, let's do it |
| 12:04 | homunq | I think we should give the relatively-known wishlist, translated into human language... |
| 12:05 | tomeu | I will write to fernando proposing him this idea |
| 12:05 | homunq | I mean, things like versioning file system... |
| 12:05 | tomeu | homunq: actually, not sure people will directly ask for that |
| 12:05 | homunq | yeah |
| 12:05 | walterbender | homunq: google translate uses cookie, I think, and remembers the last combintion you may have used... if it was en->es, then es would be the result |
| 12:06 | tomeu | but may complain about stuff that can be fixed by a versioned DS |
| 12:06 | homunq | that's why we have to put a list of "things we are thinking about" |
| 12:07 | and ask people which sound best | |
| 12:08 | because when it comes to new features, as opposed to fixing old ones | |
| 12:08 | people may not have a good idea what is possible (or impossible) | |
| 12:09 | tomeu | walterbender: we don't have much time, let's see if they can organize something like that during those days |
| 12:09 | homunq: that's a good point | |
| 12:10 | homunq | Anyway. We [may] also need some engineering-driven priorities |
| 12:10 | walterbender | tomeu: I am having the first education meeting tomorrow. maaybe this can be the topic, if anyone shows up. |
| 12:10 | homunq | such as automated testing |
| 12:10 | erikos | walterbender: oh an education meeting, nice |
| 12:10 | tomeu | homunq: and design driven, eben and cms want to change a lot of stuff |
| 12:11 | walterbender: sounds good as well | |
| 12:11 | homunq | so. feature, engineering, and design |
| 12:11 | we bubble 2 ideas from each to the top | |
| 12:11 | then put them in the ring an release the lions | |
| 12:12 | ? | |
| 12:12 | I mean, I think that a 2-stage process is appropriate. | |
| 12:12 | for setting priorities. | |
| 12:13 | What we can do now is start the ball rolling on stage 1 in each domain | |
| 12:13 | and set a date for the big stage 2 debate? | |
| 12:13 | or am I insane? | |
| 12:14 | Or have people just left the meeting? | |
| 12:14 | walterbender | homunq: sounds sane enough. I just wonder if we could ask people to be concrete about the why and how of their proposals, not just the what. |
| 12:16 | tomeu | homunq: sorry, 2 ideas of each? those will have to be quite high level, right? |
| 12:16 | perhaps more like goals? | |
| 12:16 | homunq | yeah |
| 12:16 | high level ideas | |
| 12:16 | tomeu | walterbender: do you have any idea about how to host the survey online? |
| 12:18 | homunq | and the end result will not be "we are doing A B C and not D E F" but more a priority ordering. |
| 12:18 | because in the end you do what you can. | |
| 12:18 | and what people are motivated for. | |
| 12:18 | walterbender | tomeu: there are websites that do it... I'll investigate. |
| 12:19 | tomeu | well, sometimes we have had to do what we couldn't, as well |
| 12:19 | walterbender: cool, writing to fernando now | |
| 12:24 | homunq | OK. So, ask deployments for feature-driven (with some list of engineering possibilities and also open-ended); for design-driven, ask eben and cms to set prioties; then, for engineering-driven ... ??? |
| 12:26 | And say "We are setting our priorities list on April 0X"? | |
| 12:26 | I guess mailing list thread is cheap. | |
| 12:27 | to answer my first question at x:24 above. | |
| 12:29 | erikos | ok, do we have everything to get the ball moving here? |
| 12:29 | tomeu sent mail | |
| 12:29 | we use trac to track concrete tasks | |
| 12:30 | tomeu | homunq: sounds good, would you like to start this process? |
| 12:30 | erikos: yeah, it's a pity we don't have better integration between trac and wiki | |
| 12:31 | erikos | tomeu: i wonder as well - how we see quickly in trac what is a feature - and what is a bug |
| 12:31 | tomeu: i mean we have 'task' | |
| 12:31 | tomeu | well, enhancement, really |
| 12:31 | erikos | oh right |
| 12:32 | tomeu: ok, how about we add info how a feature ticket should look like? | |
| 12:32 | tomeu | erikos: sounds good |
| 12:32 | erikos | tomeu: so we can keep the database a bit clean |
| 12:33 | tomeu | erikos: or maybe the trac ticket is minimal and there's a wiki page with more details? |
| 12:33 | erikos | #action add info: how to create a feature ticket |
| 12:33 | tomeu: i somehow like using the wiki as well for that :/ | |
| 12:34 | tomeu: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki[…]tures/Firefox_3.1 | |
| 12:36 | tomeu: just as an example | |
| 12:37 | tomeu | erikos: yeah, I like it as well |
| 12:38 | erikos | tomeu: and then you get such mails (sample sent) |
| 12:43 | homunq | will attempt an initial mail |
| 12:43 | to get the thread spinning | |
| 12:43 | tomeu | erikos: oh, I get those as well |
| 12:43 | erikos | ok, looks like we are a bit dead here |
| 12:43 | at least | |
| 12:43 | homunq | OK, thanks |
| 12:43 | bye | |
| 12:44 | walterbender | erikos: thanks |
| 12:45 | tomeu | ok, so I have sent email to fernando and pablo about feedback from .uy |
| 12:45 | erikos | tomeu: nice - thanks |
| 12:45 | tomeu | hmm, no hernan here |
| 12:46 | erikos | walterbender: so quickly - regarding your question about c |
| 12:47 | walterbender | about C? |
| 12:47 | erikos | point c |
| 12:47 | the release notes | |
| 12:47 | walterbender | erikos: I was thinking the language... |
| 12:48 | erikos | walterbender: yeah - me was ambigious as always |
| 12:48 | walterbender | erikos: keeps me on my toes... |
| 12:49 | erikos | walterbender: i lost time with thinking about the layout of the notes |
| 12:49 | walterbender | erikos: I think the 1st thing is a simple list... then we can get the design team engaged... |
| 12:49 | erikos | walterbender: maybe i should collect it on the wiki first |
| 12:50 | walterbender | erkos: +1 |
| 12:50 | erikos | walterbender: yup |
| 12:50 | tomeu | what about translation, btw? |
| 12:50 | dirakx | walterbender: i think cjb had the translation bot... |
| 12:50 | iirc | |
| 12:50 | erikos | tomeu: what do you mean - statistics? |
| 12:50 | tomeu | erikos: translating the release notes |
| 12:50 | dirakx | or who else has it?. |
| 12:51 | walterbender | tomeu: we need to write them before we translate them :) |
| 12:51 | tomeu | heh, sure |
| 12:51 | walterbender | tomeu: there is a professional translator at the MEC in Peru who is willing to help with the Spanish |
| 12:52 | erikos | one worries about translation the other one about design.... pfff |
| 12:52 | tomeu | I always try to overlook the hard part ;) |
| 12:52 | walterbender | I am just worried about getting the content |
| 12:52 | tomeu | walterbender: excellent, my written spanish has degraded a lot, now that I write occasional emails in spanish |
| 12:52 | dirakx | if help is needed i could help also. |
| 12:52 | tomeu | well, erikos has written awesome release notes to date ;) |
| 12:53 | walterbender | tomeu: bu the needs input from the activity team |
| 12:53 | if we can come up with a template, we can ask them to fill it out | |
| 12:53 | tomeu | oooh, true |
| 12:53 | walterbender | I took a stab for TA... |
| 12:53 | tomeu | so honey as well? |
| 12:53 | walterbender | if possible, yes |
| 12:53 | but fructose for sure | |
| 12:53 | erikos | walterbender: you have a template already? |
| 12:54 | walterbender | erikos: no more so than my email to you: |
| 12:54 | erikos | walterbender: ok |
| 12:54 | walterbender | (a) simple explanation of what changed |
| 12:54 | erikos | yup - all good |
| 12:54 | ok - i am in your word to follow up on this | |
| 12:55 | walterbender | (b) bulleted list with references to tickets where appropriate |
| 12:55 | (c) known bugs with tickets | |
| 12:55 | cjb | dirakx: was aa, not me |
| 12:55 | walterbender | and maybe (d) a representative screen shot |
| 12:56 | dirakx | cjb: hmm ok. |
| 12:56 | erikos | walterbender: ok - sounds all good to me |
| 12:56 | walterbender | KISS |
| 12:57 | erikos | let's close the meeting here and get things done |
| 12:57 | 5 | |
| 12:57 | 4 | |
| 12:57 | 3 | |
| 12:57 | 3 | |
| 12:57 | 3 | |
| 12:57 | damn sticky key | |
| 12:57 | 2 | |
| 12:57 | 1 | |
| 12:57 | thanks everyone! | |
| 12:58 | homunq: can you close the bot please? | |
| 12:58 | walterbender | erikos: thanks |
| 12:58 | homunq | #endmeeting |