Time |
Nick |
Message |
11:06 |
homunq |
ooOOoo |
11:06 |
erikos |
roll call - who is here |
11:06 |
homunq |
stands up and gestures welcomingly to the chair |
11:06 |
FGrose |
listening in |
11:06 |
tomeu |
here! |
11:06 |
walterbender |
says hi |
11:07 |
erikos |
hi walterbender, tomeu FGrose and homunq |
11:07 |
|
thanks for making it |
11:07 |
|
AGENDA: |
11:07 |
|
a) 0.84.1 - We want to do a 0.84 coordinated bugfix release. Let's find |
11:07 |
|
a date for that (we welcome packagers input here to sync as most as |
11:07 |
|
possible with the distributions shipping dates). And any other item we |
11:07 |
|
need to discuss about that. |
11:07 |
|
b) Kickstart 0.86 - the mouth is still sticky from 0.84 development and |
11:07 |
|
this is the best moment to talk about what is next. Branching was one |
11:07 |
|
part (see Branching email) getting feedback on specific features is |
11:07 |
|
another one. Lets discuss what else needs to happen. |
11:08 |
|
other last minute additions? |
11:08 |
walterbender |
erikos: dare we discuss release notes here? |
11:08 |
erikos |
walterbender: ok - point taken |
11:09 |
|
c) 0.84 release notes |
11:09 |
|
. |
11:09 |
|
let's start with point a |
11:09 |
|
checks the date for F11 |
11:09 |
sdziallas |
is here, too |
11:11 |
tomeu |
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JauntyReleaseSchedule |
11:11 |
erikos |
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki[…]eases/11/Schedule |
11:11 |
|
hi sdziallas |
11:11 |
|
2009-03-03 Feature Freeze--Planning & Development Ends |
11:12 |
tomeu |
http://wiki.mandriva.com/en/20[…]nt_planning:_2009.1_planning_and_delivery |
11:12 |
erikos |
sdziallas: what do you think - is 2009-04-14 Final Development Freeze our final date? |
11:13 |
sdziallas |
erikos: final development freeze means the date when rawhide gets frozen again and no new packages are allowed without approval from rel-eng |
11:14 |
|
erikos: so, if we wanted to get it directly into F11, yes (we could push it after F11 release as an update, but doing it beforehead seems to be better, imo) |
11:14 |
erikos |
sdziallas: ok - so we should have our 0.84.1 in by then |
11:14 |
sdziallas |
erikos: yeah... :) |
11:15 |
erikos |
sdziallas: good - i mean looks doable - one month left to go |
11:15 |
|
tomeu: ok lets see what ubuntu has to tell |
11:17 |
|
morgs: ^^^ |
11:17 |
tomeu |
ok, then I guess that if we don't get enough testing until 14/04, then we would need to do a 0.84.2 to get into updates? |
11:17 |
|
maybe April 9th is ubuntu's freeze? |
11:17 |
|
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FinalFreeze |
11:18 |
erikos |
tomeu: yeah looks a bit like |
11:18 |
tomeu |
anyone knows if sugar is in universe/multiverse? |
11:18 |
erikos |
tomeu: but morgan was so busy last weeks - so i wonder a bit |
11:18 |
|
tomeu: if it was not before |
11:19 |
unmadindu |
hello (sorry I'm late) |
11:19 |
tomeu |
erikos: before? |
11:19 |
erikos |
hi unmadindu |
11:19 |
tomeu |
oh, before was feature freeze |
11:20 |
|
which means no new packages and only bug fixes |
11:20 |
erikos |
ok |
11:20 |
|
hopes we get read in fedora :( |
11:20 |
tomeu |
fedora had it on 3/3 |
11:21 |
erikos |
really hopes |
11:21 |
sdziallas |
erikos: we're waiting for the cvs stuff, right? |
11:21 |
erikos |
sdziallas: yes |
11:22 |
sdziallas |
crosses fingers, too |
11:22 |
erikos |
ok can check that later |
11:23 |
|
tomeu: so yeah 16. in ubuntu land looks like the date |
11:23 |
tomeu |
erikos: final freeze? |
11:23 |
erikos |
tomeu: yes |
11:24 |
|
tomeu: oh 9th |
11:24 |
|
mandriva is not as verbose though |
11:24 |
tomeu |
apr 9th, yeah |
11:24 |
erikos |
but if we are ok for ubutu and fedora - i would say - we are fine |
11:25 |
tomeu |
yeah, they are still working out their relationship with the community |
11:26 |
erikos |
lets say our stuff should be packaged by the 3rd |
11:27 |
tomeu |
sounds good |
11:27 |
erikos |
which means we should calculate one week for the time it takes to build the packages from the tarballs |
11:27 |
|
i mean in fedora i can do it in a few hours but i have no idea how long it takes in ubuntu |
11:28 |
|
so last tarball release is the 27th? |
11:28 |
|
of march |
11:28 |
tomeu |
in debian/ubuntu land everything seems to take aaaaaages |
11:28 |
|
erikos: will have gotten enough testing by then? |
11:29 |
erikos |
tomeu: do we count on testing from the distributions? |
11:30 |
|
tomeu: or more done with Soas? |
11:30 |
tomeu |
erikos: right now, I would say on soas |
11:31 |
|
though all testing is good |
11:31 |
|
and the more diverse, the better |
11:31 |
erikos |
beta releases are coming out the 24th and the 26th |
11:34 |
|
tomeu: lets aim for the 27th |
11:34 |
|
tomeu: we can still do releases of single components after that date |
11:34 |
tomeu |
erikos: sure, and apply patches as well |
11:34 |
erikos |
tomeu: i really fear the time it takes for the packaging |
11:35 |
tomeu |
erikos: but it's only ubuntu that takes time, right? |
11:35 |
erikos |
tomeu: yeah |
11:35 |
tomeu |
alsroot and you are quite quick getting packages in your distros |
11:36 |
|
and ubuntu doesn't have more time? |
11:37 |
erikos |
i can offer the 3rd |
11:37 |
tomeu |
:p |
11:37 |
erikos |
ok lets take this then |
11:38 |
|
and another coordinated release the 20th? |
11:38 |
|
as a beta? |
11:39 |
|
or weekly releases? |
11:40 |
|
tomeu: ? |
11:40 |
tomeu |
not sure, it's a bit trying to read the future :/ |
11:40 |
erikos |
ok beta freeze on fedora is the 10th |
11:40 |
tomeu |
erikos: we are doing this for packagers |
11:41 |
erikos |
and beta freeze on ubuntu the 19th |
11:41 |
|
tomeu: i mean generating tarballs is not much overhead |
11:41 |
tomeu |
true |
11:42 |
erikos |
tomeu: where we have no changes - we just don't do it |
11:42 |
|
tomeu: or we can even say - glucose weekly |
11:42 |
tomeu |
sure, sure |
11:42 |
|
I agree |
11:42 |
erikos |
tomeu: all sucrose the 20th and the 3rd |
11:43 |
|
ok, nice done with this |
11:43 |
|
i will update the schedule and post it |
11:43 |
|
after the meeting of course |
11:44 |
|
if anyone has worries - please speak up now, or... |
11:44 |
|
5 |
11:44 |
|
4 |
11:44 |
|
3 |
11:44 |
|
2 |
11:44 |
|
1 |
11:44 |
|
0.5 |
11:44 |
|
next item |
11:44 |
|
b) |
11:44 |
|
Kickstart 0.86 - the mouth is still sticky from 0.84 development and |
11:44 |
|
this is the best moment to talk about what is next. Branching was one |
11:44 |
|
part (see Branching email) getting feedback on specific features is |
11:44 |
|
another one. Lets discuss what else needs to happen. |
11:44 |
|
. |
11:45 |
|
any questions regarding branching? |
11:45 |
|
ok |
11:46 |
|
now i hope to wake a few people up |
11:46 |
tomeu |
heh |
11:46 |
erikos |
0.84 Features |
11:46 |
tomeu |
84 or 86? |
11:46 |
erikos |
it worked! |
11:46 |
|
0.86 Features |
11:46 |
|
hmmmmm this magical word *Features* |
11:46 |
sdziallas |
has got to run... |
11:47 |
|
I'll be back in two hours or so ;) |
11:47 |
erikos |
sdziallas: run quick before the Features get you! |
11:47 |
sdziallas |
upcoming SoaS-2 release soonish :) |
11:47 |
tomeu |
so well, we need to try to get people to tell what they need |
11:47 |
erikos |
what is the plan to determine what we will work on? |
11:47 |
|
sdziallas: nice! |
11:47 |
tomeu |
if not, we just code on what we like and that's all |
11:48 |
sdziallas |
ttyl. :) |
11:49 |
erikos |
tomeu: ok, so this means a feedback loop |
11:49 |
|
tomeu: something, i am just wondering is - can we get feedback from the olpc deployments? |
11:49 |
|
tomeu: will they use 0.84? |
11:49 |
tomeu |
well, in real life I don't think so |
11:50 |
|
at least at time for 0.86 |
11:50 |
|
but that's not strictly needed |
11:50 |
erikos |
tomeu: but maybe they would have ideas as well - that are not 'move this button' |
11:50 |
|
tomeu: more deeper ideas |
11:50 |
tomeu |
that's what I expect |
11:51 |
erikos |
ok |
11:51 |
tomeu |
I don't think they are completely happy with whatever version of sugar they use now, and I don't think we can fixed it in the newer versions |
11:51 |
erikos |
so - how would a feedback loop look like in congrete |
11:52 |
|
tomeu: you mean it is a fundamental problem? |
11:52 |
|
tomeu: they will never like it? |
11:52 |
tomeu |
hmm, no |
11:53 |
|
I mean that they have interesting things to tell regardless of what version they are using |
11:53 |
|
I guess that sentence was quite crappy ;) |
11:53 |
|
we are not asking them to test 0.84, but to tell us what they need so we can try to cater better for their needs in 0.86 |
11:53 |
erikos |
ok - agreed then |
11:53 |
|
right |
11:54 |
tomeu |
so well, I guess we need to keep insisting |
11:55 |
erikos |
do we have means to gather that information? |
11:55 |
|
i mean trac and email are maybe not the right tool for it |
11:55 |
tomeu |
erikos: I'm trying to gather people who want to relay that feedback: http://sugarlabs.org/go/DeploymentTeam/Places |
11:55 |
erikos |
oh true - forgot about that |
11:56 |
FGrose |
support-gang/Adam are starting to get more involved with contributors program and OLPCorps |
11:56 |
walterbender |
tomeu: I wonder if we could get a survey done for the meeting in Uruguay? |
11:56 |
tomeu |
the ones with a ? are just tentative, need to be confirmed by then |
11:56 |
|
walterbender: now that's an idea! |
11:56 |
walterbender |
something simple, on line |
11:56 |
tomeu |
maybe we can ask fernando? |
11:57 |
erikos |
walterbender: which meeting in uruguay? |
11:57 |
walterbender |
tomeu: will you ask him? and we can work together on the questions |
11:58 |
tomeu |
walterbender: there's some workshops for teachers that are going to happen soon |
11:58 |
|
oops |
11:58 |
walterbender |
looks for the URL |
11:58 |
tomeu |
erikos: ^ |
11:58 |
|
walterbender: sure |
11:59 |
|
http://translate.google.com/tr[…]ic%2F&sl=es&tl=en |
11:59 |
walterbender |
http://www.fedaro.info/jornadas/ver_todo_ape.php is the attendee list |
12:00 |
|
tomeu: do you know what build they will be using at the workshop? |
12:01 |
tomeu |
walterbender: I guess what they have on the teachers' xos, that's 656 AFAIK |
12:01 |
erikos |
thanks for the links |
12:01 |
walterbender |
tomeu: :( |
12:02 |
|
tomeu: could we get someone there to demo 0.84? |
12:02 |
homunq |
that is very strange - when I *paste* the link in my browser, it appears without the google translate stuff |
12:02 |
tomeu |
walterbender: we can ask |
12:02 |
homunq |
magic, because that's what I wanted it to do |
12:02 |
tomeu |
homunq: I guess it's because you have your browser in es? |
12:02 |
|
as an accepted language? |
12:03 |
walterbender |
tomeu: we should think about concrete questions for the survey |
12:03 |
tomeu |
walterbender: yeah, in the mailing list? wiki? |
12:03 |
erikos |
tomeu: all those teachers work with the XO in their daily lives, right? |
12:04 |
walterbender |
si |
12:04 |
homunq |
I think it is konversation which somehow knows I speak Spanish... |
12:04 |
|
anyway |
12:04 |
tomeu |
erikos: yup |
12:04 |
walterbender |
tomeu: in the lists pointing to a wiki page |
12:04 |
tomeu |
ok, let's do it |
12:04 |
homunq |
I think we should give the relatively-known wishlist, translated into human language... |
12:05 |
tomeu |
I will write to fernando proposing him this idea |
12:05 |
homunq |
I mean, things like versioning file system... |
12:05 |
tomeu |
homunq: actually, not sure people will directly ask for that |
12:05 |
homunq |
yeah |
12:05 |
walterbender |
homunq: google translate uses cookie, I think, and remembers the last combintion you may have used... if it was en->es, then es would be the result |
12:06 |
tomeu |
but may complain about stuff that can be fixed by a versioned DS |
12:06 |
homunq |
that's why we have to put a list of "things we are thinking about" |
12:07 |
|
and ask people which sound best |
12:08 |
|
because when it comes to new features, as opposed to fixing old ones |
12:08 |
|
people may not have a good idea what is possible (or impossible) |
12:09 |
tomeu |
walterbender: we don't have much time, let's see if they can organize something like that during those days |
12:09 |
|
homunq: that's a good point |
12:10 |
homunq |
Anyway. We [may] also need some engineering-driven priorities |
12:10 |
walterbender |
tomeu: I am having the first education meeting tomorrow. maaybe this can be the topic, if anyone shows up. |
12:10 |
homunq |
such as automated testing |
12:10 |
erikos |
walterbender: oh an education meeting, nice |
12:10 |
tomeu |
homunq: and design driven, eben and cms want to change a lot of stuff |
12:11 |
|
walterbender: sounds good as well |
12:11 |
homunq |
so. feature, engineering, and design |
12:11 |
|
we bubble 2 ideas from each to the top |
12:11 |
|
then put them in the ring an release the lions |
12:12 |
|
? |
12:12 |
|
I mean, I think that a 2-stage process is appropriate. |
12:12 |
|
for setting priorities. |
12:13 |
|
What we can do now is start the ball rolling on stage 1 in each domain |
12:13 |
|
and set a date for the big stage 2 debate? |
12:13 |
|
or am I insane? |
12:14 |
|
Or have people just left the meeting? |
12:14 |
walterbender |
homunq: sounds sane enough. I just wonder if we could ask people to be concrete about the why and how of their proposals, not just the what. |
12:16 |
tomeu |
homunq: sorry, 2 ideas of each? those will have to be quite high level, right? |
12:16 |
|
perhaps more like goals? |
12:16 |
homunq |
yeah |
12:16 |
|
high level ideas |
12:16 |
tomeu |
walterbender: do you have any idea about how to host the survey online? |
12:18 |
homunq |
and the end result will not be "we are doing A B C and not D E F" but more a priority ordering. |
12:18 |
|
because in the end you do what you can. |
12:18 |
|
and what people are motivated for. |
12:18 |
walterbender |
tomeu: there are websites that do it... I'll investigate. |
12:19 |
tomeu |
well, sometimes we have had to do what we couldn't, as well |
12:19 |
|
walterbender: cool, writing to fernando now |
12:24 |
homunq |
OK. So, ask deployments for feature-driven (with some list of engineering possibilities and also open-ended); for design-driven, ask eben and cms to set prioties; then, for engineering-driven ... ??? |
12:26 |
|
And say "We are setting our priorities list on April 0X"? |
12:26 |
|
I guess mailing list thread is cheap. |
12:27 |
|
to answer my first question at x:24 above. |
12:29 |
erikos |
ok, do we have everything to get the ball moving here? |
12:29 |
|
tomeu sent mail |
12:29 |
|
we use trac to track concrete tasks |
12:30 |
tomeu |
homunq: sounds good, would you like to start this process? |
12:30 |
|
erikos: yeah, it's a pity we don't have better integration between trac and wiki |
12:31 |
erikos |
tomeu: i wonder as well - how we see quickly in trac what is a feature - and what is a bug |
12:31 |
|
tomeu: i mean we have 'task' |
12:31 |
tomeu |
well, enhancement, really |
12:31 |
erikos |
oh right |
12:32 |
|
tomeu: ok, how about we add info how a feature ticket should look like? |
12:32 |
tomeu |
erikos: sounds good |
12:32 |
erikos |
tomeu: so we can keep the database a bit clean |
12:33 |
tomeu |
erikos: or maybe the trac ticket is minimal and there's a wiki page with more details? |
12:33 |
erikos |
#action add info: how to create a feature ticket |
12:33 |
|
tomeu: i somehow like using the wiki as well for that :/ |
12:34 |
|
tomeu: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki[…]tures/Firefox_3.1 |
12:36 |
|
tomeu: just as an example |
12:37 |
tomeu |
erikos: yeah, I like it as well |
12:38 |
erikos |
tomeu: and then you get such mails (sample sent) |
12:43 |
homunq |
will attempt an initial mail |
12:43 |
|
to get the thread spinning |
12:43 |
tomeu |
erikos: oh, I get those as well |
12:43 |
erikos |
ok, looks like we are a bit dead here |
12:43 |
|
at least |
12:43 |
homunq |
OK, thanks |
12:43 |
|
bye |
12:44 |
walterbender |
erikos: thanks |
12:45 |
tomeu |
ok, so I have sent email to fernando and pablo about feedback from .uy |
12:45 |
erikos |
tomeu: nice - thanks |
12:45 |
tomeu |
hmm, no hernan here |
12:46 |
erikos |
walterbender: so quickly - regarding your question about c |
12:47 |
walterbender |
about C? |
12:47 |
erikos |
point c |
12:47 |
|
the release notes |
12:47 |
walterbender |
erikos: I was thinking the language... |
12:48 |
erikos |
walterbender: yeah - me was ambigious as always |
12:48 |
walterbender |
erikos: keeps me on my toes... |
12:49 |
erikos |
walterbender: i lost time with thinking about the layout of the notes |
12:49 |
walterbender |
erikos: I think the 1st thing is a simple list... then we can get the design team engaged... |
12:49 |
erikos |
walterbender: maybe i should collect it on the wiki first |
12:50 |
walterbender |
erkos: +1 |
12:50 |
erikos |
walterbender: yup |
12:50 |
tomeu |
what about translation, btw? |
12:50 |
dirakx |
walterbender: i think cjb had the translation bot... |
12:50 |
|
iirc |
12:50 |
erikos |
tomeu: what do you mean - statistics? |
12:50 |
tomeu |
erikos: translating the release notes |
12:50 |
dirakx |
or who else has it?. |
12:51 |
walterbender |
tomeu: we need to write them before we translate them :) |
12:51 |
tomeu |
heh, sure |
12:51 |
walterbender |
tomeu: there is a professional translator at the MEC in Peru who is willing to help with the Spanish |
12:52 |
erikos |
one worries about translation the other one about design.... pfff |
12:52 |
tomeu |
I always try to overlook the hard part ;) |
12:52 |
walterbender |
I am just worried about getting the content |
12:52 |
tomeu |
walterbender: excellent, my written spanish has degraded a lot, now that I write occasional emails in spanish |
12:52 |
dirakx |
if help is needed i could help also. |
12:52 |
tomeu |
well, erikos has written awesome release notes to date ;) |
12:53 |
walterbender |
tomeu: bu the needs input from the activity team |
12:53 |
|
if we can come up with a template, we can ask them to fill it out |
12:53 |
tomeu |
oooh, true |
12:53 |
walterbender |
I took a stab for TA... |
12:53 |
tomeu |
so honey as well? |
12:53 |
walterbender |
if possible, yes |
12:53 |
|
but fructose for sure |
12:53 |
erikos |
walterbender: you have a template already? |
12:54 |
walterbender |
erikos: no more so than my email to you: |
12:54 |
erikos |
walterbender: ok |
12:54 |
walterbender |
(a) simple explanation of what changed |
12:54 |
erikos |
yup - all good |
12:54 |
|
ok - i am in your word to follow up on this |
12:55 |
walterbender |
(b) bulleted list with references to tickets where appropriate |
12:55 |
|
(c) known bugs with tickets |
12:55 |
cjb |
dirakx: was aa, not me |
12:55 |
walterbender |
and maybe (d) a representative screen shot |
12:56 |
dirakx |
cjb: hmm ok. |
12:56 |
erikos |
walterbender: ok - sounds all good to me |
12:56 |
walterbender |
KISS |
12:57 |
erikos |
let's close the meeting here and get things done |
12:57 |
|
5 |
12:57 |
|
4 |
12:57 |
|
3 |
12:57 |
|
3 |
12:57 |
|
3 |
12:57 |
|
damn sticky key |
12:57 |
|
2 |
12:57 |
|
1 |
12:57 |
|
thanks everyone! |
12:58 |
|
homunq: can you close the bot please? |
12:58 |
walterbender |
erikos: thanks |
12:58 |
homunq |
#endmeeting |