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#sugar-meeting, 2008-12-11

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Time Nick Message
09:04 unmadindu_ gets rid of his tail
09:04 erikos #TOPIC: Sugar developers meeting
09:05 tomeu hi all!
09:05 morgs hi!
09:05 tomeu there's only one chair in this meeting?
09:07 erikos Agenda of today: http://sugarlabs.org/go/Develo[…]mber_11_2008_-_14.00_.28UTC.29
09:07 hi tomeu and morgs - thanks for joining in
09:07 unmadindu: great you are here as well
09:08 and even marcopg stays under the limit of 10 minutes late!
09:08 marcopg my default lateness is 15 minutes
09:08 to anything
09:08 erikos anyone else that is here for the meeting?
09:08 marcopg my gf usually tells me time - 15 to ensure I'm in time
09:08 erikos marcopg: you mean i should be happy that you are here already?
09:08 marcopg erikos: yup!
09:09 erikos marcopg: hmm we can clear that in detail later :)
09:09 ok first item of today:
09:09 a) Schedule: adjust feature freeze
09:09 as you may have noticed - our schedule is currently a bit tough
09:10 our feature freeze would be next week already
09:10 we want to stick to ship something in march
09:10 and to the way we do coordinated releases
09:10 the feature freeze we would like to move to a later date?
09:11 comments?
09:11 http://sugarlabs.org/go/Develo[…]/Roadmap#Schedule
09:11 tomeu well, I sure have lots of bugs to put in
09:11 erikos ^^^
09:11 tomeu s/bugs/features
09:12 erikos hello bertf still in time (current topic: a) Schedule: adjust feature freeze)
09:12 marcopg OLPC is apparently planning to discuss 9.1 stuff at the xocamp
09:12 meaning, they will see which features are more or less ready
09:12 and try to get them in by the end of january or something
09:13 bertf or something. didn't seem consensus was reached yesterday
09:13 marcopg yeah
09:13 tomeu how does that affect sugar?
09:13 erikos marcopg: how does that have concrete effects to our schedule?
09:14 marcopg well if I we can play nicely with olpc we should, since it's our main customer
09:14 on the other hand I don't really want to give up on time based releases
09:14 i.e. if gets pushed after end of january I don't think we will be able to accomodate it
09:15 tomeu marcopg: ok about playing nice, but what can we do about that?
09:16 erikos marcopg: what policy would you suggest?
09:16 marcopg we could reschedule our freeze to the end of january
09:17 but then stick to it
09:17 tomeu heh, we could get lots of buddies from now to then
09:17 if we can focus on code
09:17 marcopg: do you think we'll have enough time to stabilize stuff?
09:18 morgs The ubuntu packaging has to have a decision very soon about whether to start including 0.83 with a view to shipping 0.84, or staying on 0.82 - the Ubuntu jaunty featurefreeze is Feb 19, so do you think there will be any impact to the 0.84 release date?
09:18 erikos morgs: good point
09:18 tomeu which other freezes do we have around that time?
09:19 F11?
09:19 erikos looks as F11 schedule
09:19 marcopg morgs: no, the idea is to keep release date the same
09:19 erikos https://fedoraproject.org/wiki[…]eases/11/Schedule
09:20 2009-03-03  feature freeze
09:21 marcopg: i think our decision when freeze will be should be made - dependent on the timeleft to stabilize
09:21 tomeu what means the distros feature freezes? that only bugfixes can get in?
09:21 morgs yes
09:21 tomeu do we need to follow any process on their side to assure them that those are only bugfixes?
09:21 morgs in ubuntu, it means no new package versions, unless you get an exception
09:21 tomeu in other words: only can get fixed the bugs that are tracked there?
09:21 marcopg erikos: end of january seems like enough to stabilize, *seem*
09:22 morgs tomeu: when uploading during the intrepid cycle after the feature freeze date, they wanted to see changelogs for uploads to see that no new features were added
09:22 erikos marcopg: see, in the end it is our product that we present
09:22 marcopg: if it sucks they claim it to us
09:23 marcopg sure
09:23 so let's forget olpc for a minute
09:23 and try to figure out what would be the best date to freeze
09:23 it seem like some of us would also like to have more time
09:24 erikos yeah
09:24 tomeu more time to code new features or to stabilize?
09:25 erikos we have christmas and new year as well in between
09:25 morgs grr, I can't find the actual feature list on the wiki
09:25 erikos so the time in between 24-31 will likely see not so much code
09:26 marcopg yup
09:26 we basically have 10 days
09:27 erikos so until the 17th january we have 4 coding weeks
09:27 marcopg what is the current freeze date?
09:27 17 jan? I thought earlier
09:27 unmadindu 21st
09:27 morgs Dec 21
09:27 erikos i was just picking a date in january
09:28 how about the 24th - that gives us 5 coding weeks?
09:28 and 5 stabilizing weeks
09:30 marcopg 5 stabilizing weeks
09:30 seems a little short
09:30 erikos ok 17th of january?
09:30 4 code - 6 stabilizing ones
09:31 (and fudcon in between as well)
09:31 marcopg erikos: I think it's mainly up to you and tomeu
09:31 tomeu 4/6
09:31 marcopg I don't plan to write new fetaures at all
09:32 tomeu marcopg: but will you be able to resist the need? ;)
09:32 I mean, the christmas holidays are for playing, after all
09:32 marcopg resist the need? ;)
09:32 heh I suspect I'll play with collab
09:33 we really really need to make the damned thing work
09:33 erikos me i have to finish NM and the gconf transition
09:33 tomeu marcopg: you'd better fix presence, ir my FT work won't serve much
09:33 marcopg right
09:33 erikos oh and the mesh view as well
09:34 marcopg it seem like the only one really planning features is tomeu
09:34 and there is possibly journal2 by olpc
09:35 morgs Did cscott present any features at SugarCamp which are to be implemented in Sugar (by him)?
09:35 marcopg journal and some collab stuff
09:36 I propose that we let tomeu decide a date
09:36 erikos ok i think we are drifting off now
09:36 marcopg based on the features he wants to land
09:37 then we announce it on the mailing list
09:37 tomeu I would prefer 4 coding weeks and 6 fixing weeks
09:37 marcopg and if no one complains we stick with it
09:37 erikos taken by me
09:37 morgs +1
09:37 marcopg fine by me
09:37 we need an action to send mail
09:37 who takes it?
09:37 erikos around the 17th we do then feature freeze
09:37 marcopg erikos maybe? ;)
09:38 tomeu loves erikos announcements
09:38 marcopg tomeu: that's why I propose him! :)
09:38 erikos #ACTION adjust feature freeze and announce it (erikos)
09:38 marcopg yay ;)
09:38 tomeu nice
09:38 erikos next topic
09:38 b) create a short term TODO list of items (i.e. collaboration rock) and find owners and priorities
09:38 marcopg erikos: feel free to refactor a bit the schedule to accomodate releases
09:38 erikos: (as we discussed yesterday)
09:39 erikos marcopg: sure - i will get back to you with my plan
09:39 marcopg: can you explain - what we discusssed yesterday about the TODO list?
09:39 explain/sum up
09:39 marcopg ok, to make it clear the target of these items is 1/2 weeks max
09:40 we should add stuff we are already working on
09:40 (tomeu ft for example)
09:40 tomeu - usb sticks in the journal
09:40 marcopg and stuff that needs to be done
09:40 tomeu works but is very hacky
09:40 marcopg perhaps we start from what we are working on?
09:40 erikos http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/TODO
09:40 marcopg so we know owners already
09:40 erikos that is the page btw
09:41 marcopg erikos: we need to make nice tables at some point, maybe not now though
09:41 erikos marcopg: now we only need something we can work on ;p
09:41 marcopg for this meeting I'd be content with a list of item+owner
09:41 tomeu gadget?
09:41 marcopg let's start from what we are working on already
09:41 and hope to finish in 1-2 weeks max
09:41 erikos: can you write down the items please?
09:42 erikos uff
09:42 marcopg I have too main items:
09:42 * Get to the point where we can effectively dogfood collaboration
09:43 erikos done
09:43 marcopg * Restructure the DevelopmentTeam wiki (later I want to start adding documentation
09:44 tomeu: ?
09:44 tomeu I have FT and removable devices in the journal
09:44 marcopg ok cool
09:44 erikos: ?
09:44 erikos please phrase it into two items
09:44 marcopg (also erikos are you writing these down)
09:45 morgs xobot: take notes
09:45 xobot morgs, my handwriting is unreadable!
09:45 erikos yup
09:45 tomeu - implement journal entry transfer
09:45 - finish support for removable devices in the journal
09:45 marcopg cool
09:45 morgs I'm making PS a bit more controllable from the control panel - to restart gabble without needing to restart Sugar
09:46 (to switch between jabber servers, ...)
09:46 marcopg great, erikos please take note ;)
09:46 erikos i do i do :)
09:46 marcopg unmadindu: ?
09:47 working on any sugar coolness in the next 1-2 weeks?
09:47 unmadindu new language packs (I'm not sure if that is directly related to sugar)
09:47 tomeu morgs: that's cool
09:47 marcopg unmadindu: is it going to implemented in a distro specific way?
09:48 unmadindu yeah - at the moment, yes, unless I can get upstream glibc/python to accept our patches
09:48 marcopg ok, so perhaps for now it's more of an olpc thing
09:49 unmadindu yeah
09:49 marcopg ok, I think only erikos is left then
09:49 erikos one sec
09:50 unmadindu: the language section you did in the control panel
09:50 unmadindu: are you planning to change it to the 'gdm' way
09:51 unmadindu erikos: yeah, I would be polishing that up
09:51 erikos unmadindu: eben seemed to like it that way
09:51 unmadindu erikos: yeah
09:51 erikos: though it might have performance issues
09:51 erikos unmadindu: that would be more than cool - shall i add it?
09:51 unmadindu sure
09:51 marcopg great!
09:51 erikos unmadindu: yeah, performance - we can at least try :)
09:52 unmadindu lol, yeah
09:52 tomeu I think caroline was interested in doing some work on groups
09:52 anyone has more details about that?
09:52 erikos i will do more NM work - connect to preferred connection, use gconf instead of our own conf file
09:53 marcopg she codes? ;)
09:53 erikos and support for wired devices
09:53 have just to structure it a bit - into small action items
09:54 marcopg what you just said is fine for the todo I think
09:54 anything else?
09:54 erikos unmadindu: do you know the ticket number ?
09:54 unmadindu http://dev.sugarlabs.org/ticket/51
09:54 tomeu marcopg: I think caroline_ does code, but she mentioned someone else working on that
09:54 marcopg otherwise we can move to stuff that *must* be done
09:55 erikos unmadindu: thanks
09:55 unmadindu marcopg: I would also like to sit down with you one of these days on RTL support
09:55 marcopg unmadindu: put it on the TODO!
09:55 unmadindu I'm not sure if I would be able to find the time, but it is high priority for me
09:55 marcopg let's at least try
09:55 unmadindu erikos: ^^^^^^^^^^^^
09:55 ok
09:56 erikos adds that
09:56 marcopg tomeu: oh she really codes? wow
09:56 we need to close in one hour today
09:56 counts down on stuff we are workin on...
09:56 5
09:56 4
09:56 3
09:56 2
09:56 1
09:56 0.5
09:56 0.2
09:56 done!
09:56 now stuff that *have* to be done
09:57 let's just list them and then we try to find owners
09:57 * I need buildbot back, I really do.
09:57 * We need to move to use git.sugarlabs.org, and figure out conventions/policies to use it properly
09:58 * We need to fix the damned palettes, they are seriously too broken.
09:59 no one else has ideas other than me!? :)
09:59 erikos has to take too many notes
10:00 marcopg * Related to git probably, we need to figure out trac workflow, add components etc.
10:00 tomeu hmm, the logout option
10:00 some screen issues like those in the control panel
10:00 font size on other resolutions
10:00 erikos marcopg: well trac is on the bugsquad TODO list
10:00 marcopg morgs: unmadindu you must have some idea ;)
10:01 erikos: oh kill that!
10:01 I mean from our todo
10:01 erikos marcopg: i did not add it :)
10:01 marcopg yeah I did, but you kill
10:01 unmadindu the control panel resizing issue (for non en_US languages)
10:02 erikos marcopg: where did you add it?
10:02 marcopg unmadindu: huh oh true
10:02 morgs * Better separation of XO features in the control panel so they can be removed for distros
10:02 marcopg erikos: forget, my brain is seriously melted
10:02 tomeu good one from morgs
10:02 morgs - About my computer instead of About my XO...
10:02 erikos morgs: yup
10:03 marcopg ok
10:03 5
10:03 4
10:03 3
10:03 2
10:03 1
10:03 unmadindu http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/7728 (if someone can figure out what this is - it seems to affect a number of device icons)
10:03 tomeu adding buddies not tracked in the PS
10:03 marcopg gah I was almost done
10:04 unmadindu :)
10:04 erikos aehm all the last points - do we add them now?
10:04 marcopg yeah add them
10:04 0.5
10:04 0.2
10:04 0.1
10:04 done!
10:04 tomeu marcopg: cannot count so fast!
10:05 erikos and owners?
10:05 marcopg ok, we have 4 minutes to figure out some owners
10:05 erikos: can you put the list up?
10:05 erikos i must first go through them and add them
10:05 morgs tomeu: don't believe all Gregorio's "feature" requests... :)
10:05 marcopg fast fast!
10:05 (what else is on agenda?)
10:06 tomeu morgs: hmm, for example?
10:06 marcopg erikos: please give it numbers, so we can more easily take them
10:07 morgs "show buddies PS doesn't know about because of bugs in the collaboration stack"
10:07 tomeu morgs: oh, was rather thinking on what cassidy said in the sugarcamp
10:07 morgs ah OK :)
10:07 tomeu morgs: have a way to add a jid to your friends view, for example
10:08 I guess FT is going to work fine with other clients
10:08 morgs tomeu: OK we can chat later
10:08 tomeu ok
10:08 cassidy hu? who summoned me ? :)
10:09 tomeu ;) just mentioned that would be nice to have a way to add non-PS buddies
10:09 so we can chat and send files with other desktops
10:09 marcopg erikos: let's reschedule getting involved to next week btw (shame, but...)
10:09 cassidy that should work now in sugar-jhbuild
10:09 erikos all up now
10:09 cassidy PS doesn't ignore non-sugar buddies anymore
10:09 (aka contact without key)
10:10 tomeu cassidy: you don't need to add them manually? can we autodiscover them?
10:10 marcopg cassidy: there seems to be still several bugs in presence even with gadget btw :( will spend more time tracking it down
10:10 cassidy tomeu: well, you'll see them automatically in Salut
10:10 marcopg we need to get collab to work!
10:11 cassidy didn't test with Gabble but you *should* see contacts if they are in your roster
10:11 marcopg erikos: let us know when you are done
10:11 cassidy but, yes, we need UI to add contact from their jid
10:11 tomeu cassidy: ok, so I guess that I was mentioning was to add contacts to the jabber roster
10:11 cassidy marcopg: I'm sure there are bugs in Gadget. The good news is that their should be easily fixable (while the shared roster ones are not)
10:12 tomeu: there is a bug opened about that
10:12 marcopg yeah, also I'm sure there are bugs in ps and UI
10:12 we "just" need to fix all of them
10:12 cassidy bugs erverywhere !
10:12 tomeu good to have a plan so simple
10:13 cassidy tomeu: https://dev.laptop.org/ticket/8841
10:13 I'll be happy to help on the TP part is someone wants to write a GUI for this
10:13 erikos with number now
10:13 morgs marcopg: PS has quite a lot of pseudo-blocking dbus-python calls - I've been looking and it will be a nightmare to convert them all to async but I think that's one cause of unreliability
10:13 marcopg erikos: where they are?
10:14 erikos marcopg: reload
10:14 http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/TODO
10:14 marcopg erikos: reload what ;)
10:14 aaah
10:14 wow
10:14 ok so I can champion 8
10:14 I basically need someone to give me a F10 box :)
10:15 if you hear about any possibilities to host build slaves please let me knwo
10:15 cassidy FYI my priorities are now a) get p2p stream tubes merged   b) continue FT implementation in Gabble
10:15 erikos marcopg: maybe we can ask in fedora land?
10:15 cassidy I'm working on a) atm
10:16 marcopg erikos: seems to be difficult to get full machines there
10:16 tomeu cassidy: a) won't require no sugar work, right?
10:16 marcopg please take some items!
10:16 cassidy tomeu: not at all
10:16 tomeu cassidy: we'll just see less server load?
10:16 same for b), cool
10:16 cassidy that's the whole point of TP, you continue to use the existing API and benefits implementation improvements
10:17 tomeu cassidy: about #8841, is quite a bit of work, not sure we'll find time
10:17 yup
10:17 marcopg tomeu: erikos morgs unmadindu please take items ;)
10:17 cassidy tomeu: that means stream tube will use p2p connections when it's possible (contacts are on the same network) instead of sending it throught the server
10:17 erikos marcopg: ok lets do it like this
10:17 tomeu oh, since when do we have so nice tables in the wiki?
10:17 marcopg takes 8 and 9
10:17 morgs took 15
10:18 marcopg tomeu: eben did them I think
10:18 cassidy at some point we'll probably implement sock5 relay too
10:18 tomeu nice, collabora has a train full of goodies for us ;)
10:18 marcopg tomeu: maybe you want 16 while you are working on collab?
10:18 erikos marcopg: we have the items now up - now people just take items - don't need to wait here now (this covers point c of the agenda as well)
10:18 unmadindu takes 11
10:18 erikos marcopg: getting involved
10:18 marcopg erikos: no no items needs an owner
10:18 tomeu marcopg: I can take, but I'm not sure I'll have time to implement all of it
10:19 marcopg otherwise they get dropped to another list ;)
10:19 erikos takes 13
10:19 marcopg takes also 10
10:20 tomeu I can take 11, 12 and 14
10:20 oh, unmadindu took 11, cool!
10:20 erikos i just took 14 :)
10:20 tomeu so maybe could do 16
10:21 erikos marcopg: i guess you take 10 then :)))
10:21 marcopg: it is all your fault in the end
10:21 marcopg wow only two left
10:21 tomeu tell me when you have finished, I'll see if there's anything left :p
10:21 marcopg no one left!
10:21 yay :)
10:22 tomeu: you take 12 and 16 right?
10:22 erikos finished!
10:22 tomeu taken
10:22 marcopg wow this was call
10:22 erikos if you are all as good in coding than in champoining - we have soon the greatest platform ever :)
10:22 marcopg cool
10:23 ok, so
10:23 erikos lets see next week - how much you get done! you rock!
10:23 marcopg any action item for next week?
10:23 tomeu think so ;)
10:23 morgs has to go, will catch up any last things later
10:23 marcopg I'd like to see more people to the meeting
10:23 benzea gary mtd etc
10:23 erikos eben!
10:23 marcopg eben yeah
10:24 eben erikos: yes?
10:24 marcopg should we try to invite them directly?
10:24 tomeu cassidy features should be in that roadmap? or are considered work on dependencies
10:24 marcopg eben: you always miss devs meeting!
10:24 erikos eben: do you need direct invitation?
10:24 eben: is it too early for you?
10:24 eben marcopg: I've been online the whole time, and even in this room....unfortunately I was distracted...
10:24 marcopg eben: argh!
10:25 eben: please don't be distracted next week ;)
10:25 eben Trying to get things done for th design meeting, which I didn't accomplish, so I think I need to postpone it anyway.
10:25 marcopg we want you to take stuff on the todo and start coding again :P
10:25 eben marcopg: :)
10:25 I need help with hyperactivity...
10:25 erikos eben: yeah we missed you a bit over the last weeks :/
10:25 eben I started the patch to make groups something more interesting, and got stuck.
10:25 marcopg eben: cassidy is here ;)
10:25 ok let's close this meeting
10:26 tomeu eben: we should talk with caroline_ and ask her what they need about groups, we may be able to do something for 0.84
10:26 marcopg but let's have an action to get moe people
10:26 erikos marcopg: one sec
10:26 marcopg I can take it
10:26 eben tomeu: Er....groups view, which is partially independent.
10:26 erikos marcopg: yup - please take that one
10:26 marcopg we are 18 mins late
10:26 tomeu eben: oh, is it?
10:26 eben tomeu: But yes, it would be great to talk more about groups in genera;
10:26 tomeu: well, right now it's just a list of buddies...
10:26 erikos #ACTION invite more people to the dev meeting (marcopg)
10:27 marcopg next week we are going to do exactly 1 hour!
10:27 tomeu eben: can you add your work items to the TODO table? http://sugarlabs.org/go/Develo[…]TODO#Active_Tasks
10:27 erikos one last word before we close:
10:27 eben the plan is that it be a view just like the neighborhood, with activities and grouping and such, but that you just see your friends
10:27 erikos we will go next week through the todo list and see which items have been closed!
10:27 marcopg eben: note that they are 1-2 weeks in scope, and you need an owner for each
10:27 tomeu eben: isn't that what we have today?
10:27 eben tomeu: no, right now it's just a static list of friends...
10:27 marcopg erikos: yeah and hopefully add more
10:28 tomeu marcopg: 16 will take longer, most probably
10:28 erikos thanks everyone for joining in
10:28 we close in 5
10:28 4
10:28 3
10:28 2
10:28 1
10:28 0.5
10:28 tomeu erikos: thanks for leading the meeting!
10:28 erikos 0
10:28 #endmeeting

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