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#publiclab, 2012-11-04

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:56 mtoups infinite barnstars!
01:38 meetar has quit IRC
04:52 bgamari <bgamari!~ben@pool-108-8-241-91.spfdma.east.verizon.net> has joined #publiclab
20:25 meeting Meeting started Sun Nov  4 20:25:44 2012 UTC. The chair is warren. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:25 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
20:26 warren i don't think it was running already???
20:27 Hudonnoodles #Topic Starting a Public Lab Chapter
20:27 Jeff W: Fab Lab
20:27 It's pretty different from what we do, but they agree to a charter
20:27 http://fab.cba.mit.edu/about/charter/
20:28 Shannon: Some of the requests include Illinois and Sweden
20:28 They've contacted Public Lab, and they want to start a group.
20:29 We don't have much infrastructure beyond starting a Google Group or creating a page on the website
20:29 Chris: There are two organizers and there are activities, but its not appropriate to be a chapter
20:29 So its funny to come out and be a chapter. I think.
20:29 Shannon: Both groups are universities, and they want to start a group there.
20:30 Their starting point is within the university
20:30 Jeff W: Universities aren't usually able to create an open group
20:30 Mathew: Reading the Fab Lab Chapter: http://fab.cba.mit.edu/about/charter/
20:32 Jeff W: I know the person who originated the Fab Lab network, he has a blanket policy that's a little like the open source license
20:32 Most of the stuff they produce is free for personal/non-commercial use.
20:32 It's not really legally log typed either.
20:33 Basically, they're saying you can use it as long as you don't make money off of it
20:33 Pat: It does set up a few expectations
20:33 Safety notion, give back
20:33 Jeff w: We've created a lot of local mailing lists that don't really need much else.
20:33 On the website they'll use a tag for that region
20:33 We're chipping away at this at different angles.
20:34 Liz B: I'd like a way chapters can learn from each other.
20:34 I mentioned that it was a high capacity area. That information has got to get out.
20:35 NY chapter received hostility from the Gulf chapter due to the amount of progress
20:35 Mathew: Gulf has a small Community Advisory Group, compared to the NEw York area
20:35 Environmental Sharing, there's a lot to be done in terms of using the network to set precedents
20:36 In my work in Oregon, we work on legal reform around building/sustainability. Our main thing is reforming laws that prevent you from doing **something**
20:36 We document case studies in other states
20:36 People often say, "Oh I didnt know other people were doing this. I didn't know I could."
20:36 It gives the state agency the right to do something.
20:36 Environmental case studies should be shared back
20:37 Jeff W: Curious about how GLAM people got on the CAGs
20:37 Don: Maybe you don't just want one list, or maybe the characteristics could be guidelines.
20:37 ie: Here's one example of a lab, these are just guidelines
20:37 Mathew: Maybe we should think about our charter, and what we want back from the group
20:38 Don: Different communities might want to work in different models
20:38 There's a space to describe their own charter
20:38 Jeff W: We prompt people to post research notes or join the mailing list
20:38 we're trying to push people to do that
20:38 mathew_ <mathew_!~mathew@qwebirc.media.mit.edu> has joined #publiclab
20:38 Hudonnoodles A "How To" on organizing a balloon mapping day
20:39 http://publiclaboratory.org/wi[…]-mapping-workshop
20:39 Give people the tools to start their own group
20:40 liz <liz!~liz@qwebirc.media.mit.edu> has joined #publiclab
20:40 Hudonnoodles Shannon: You can have a place page, but what delineates a place from an actual chapter?
20:40 Pat: People can participate without having a chapter, but if a group wants to become a chapter that requires a level of participation and ffedback
20:41 You're signing up to be a lead, to promote the interests of PLOTS
20:41 You can expect help in precedence and help from us. But we expect feedback
20:41 If you don't want that, maybe you want a page or a list
20:41 Chris: Don and I had a convo a few minutes ago
20:42 My model from the website, is that if you want to become an organizer, you just have to act like an organizer for a while
20:42 If you want to become a place, you have to act like a place for a while
20:42 IF you want to become a chapter, you have to act like a chapter for a while
20:42 Mathew: We're talking about a lot of the certification issues we talked about last night
20:42 Cindy: Civic Science. It's important to lay out exactly what this group would represent and commit to 100%
20:43 Dan: Core Values
20:43 Jeff W: When possible and/or when safe, to share your work
20:43 It's about values.
20:43 We don't want to create infrastructure to make it harder to do it
20:44 People don't know that they can be a chapter without knowing they can just do it
20:44 Same with the barnraising, sometimes there's a need for a specific invitation
20:44 The threshold isn't something that's bestowed upon
20:44 5 requirements and you agree with them, then you're a chapter so you can call yourself a chapter?
20:44 a list of values or principles
20:45 if you want to, you can. if you don't, you don't have to
20:45 Dan: Analogy. I wasn't interested in coming to the barnraising, until I saw the price.
20:45 What's the list of things I need to do?
20:45 Stewart: Sara W, Mathew and I spent time with UC Davis
20:45 with the idea that they would become a chapter. but they weren't doing independent research and nothing came of it
20:46 Mathew: Not to rag on them, the work on becoming a chapter was spent talking to us about becoming a chapter
20:46 What are you doing? What do you want to do?
20:46 Shannon: Even in the case of Sweden and Illinois, they're not about looking a direct environmental problems
20:46 They don't have a site we want to look at
20:47 Jeff W: A big organization like a university, seems like they're better equipped
20:47 Universities can become a corporate member
20:47 rather than doing a bunch of community organizing
20:47 Pat: Student organizations/chapters, there needs to be a faculty advisors and continuity
20:48 if you're lucky you have a freshman, otherwise they're always running through
20:48 *rolling
20:48 It's different if you don't have stakeholders who have been in a location for a while
20:48 New balloons - engaged a conversation with a balloon maker. I can't speak for Public Lab for this, in terms of placing an order. I can't commit the organization.
20:49 1) How empowered are these chapters? Where is this limit? Can/can't they commit Public Lab?
20:49 Can they accept donations for their chapter?
20:50 Jeff W: Legal
20:50 Shannon: Legally, what can they do?
20:50 They're branches of the overall nonprofit
20:51 If we have a group in Nebraska and there's a group doing fundraising, does it have to come to the "mothership" or to the chapter
20:51 Can you broker a deal for the chapter?
20:51 Pat: Devil in the detail
20:51 Shannon: We need to look at our own financial structure
20:51 Cindy: Suggestions.
20:53 In the end, its your name and reputation at stake
20:53 Shannon: A lot of this would fall under the charter principle
20:53 Also, the way we talk about London is the "London PLOTS Group"
20:54 Chris: Unless a chapter has a legal advantage or provides funds back to Public Lab, why would you want chapters to exist?
20:54 Jeff w: Using the Public Lab name is at the center of this. The advantages of being a legal branch and in the spirit of being a branch is MAKER Fair
20:54 You can make a mini MAKER fair anywhere
20:55 They'll send you a book, and a mini field guide how to do this
20:55 Style guide, templates for documents, what you're allowed to do, what you're allowed to sell
20:55 I'm kind of assuming that O'Reilly takes a cut of it
20:55 they're interested in controlling the brand
20:55 At first it sounded ridiculous, after talking about it with further with Hack people.
20:56 Having some values and principles laid out, may address the issue of a group doing something we're not okay with
20:56 If a charter is doing something we don't agree with, we could at least let them know with advanced warning
20:56 We can require them to use certain fonts if we want
20:56 Chris: You've built up a brand, recognized by 100s of people
20:57 MAKER understands their branding
20:57 You can do good with that money
20:57 Why have a chapter, unless you're selling your brand?
20:58 If people are going to buy into your brand, then you have to have something in return
20:58 marketing, PR...etc
20:59 Shannon: 2 things. Legally incorporating chapters/brands in New Orleans to apply for site specific grants
20:59 It's about creating a manifesto. Not just taking the name and running with it
21:00 Jeff W: The number one reason I'm interested in a chapter (and maybe chapter is wrong because i never thought about it with payment or branding)
21:00 as our organization grows and as we reach new audiences, one of the things that's really nice is that people meeting in person
21:01 It's hard to do as a centralized organization
21:01 IF there's a little big of structure to scaffold that growth to make their own decisions
21:01 Chris: Unless you need the legal abilities, the organizer model may do everything you need
21:02 Pat: We're about community and about place and about people who want to organize
21:02 Nominated to be an organizer, we have a kit that shows you how to create an event
21:02 Dan: I agree.
21:02 I'm thinking against a chapter, but we want to encourage you to act like you're an organizer
21:02 And show us what it might be, but right now we don't want to host chapters
21:02 Don: I support that too.
21:03 You don't want to make an official structure for a chapter.
21:03 What happens if somebody calls them self a chapter and starts misbehaving?
21:03 Don: This is how you can build out your local community?
21:03 Jeff W: Everything revolves around the organizers?
21:04 Pat: Organizers. A Chapter is an overlay.
21:04 There can be adversarial relationships between chapters and the host organization
21:04 How to raise funds?
21:05 Jeff w: It seems unlikely that someone not active on the ORganizers list, it seems unlikely that they would want to start a chapter?
21:05 Shannon: We've never had an organizer want to start a chapter
21:07 Jeff: How can we make the organizers list to be more visible?
21:07 Mailing list growth?
21:08 Mathew: Can we take a temperature vote on whether or not to create chapters?
21:09 Jeff W: The word chapter in the conversation means a legal one, but that was not my original intent
21:09 Chris: Field Office or Network Branch to do a certain way
21:09 And make guidelines for that
21:09 There's no grant making
21:09 Nothing more expected than an organizer
21:09 There's no renewal
21:09 Chris Fastie: I'm an organizer forever. You can't get rid of me
21:10 EVER!
21:10 It may help people psychologically, to create networks/field offices.
21:10 Jeff W: the unnamed entity of group-ness
21:10 Stewart: We have place concepts, to me that's the middle of ground
21:10 JEff: website authorization?
21:11 Mthew: Maybe we can nix chapters (sites are ad hoc and organizers) and go back to our value statement
21:12 Jeff W: This guy made a tool to use a tool to write a value statement of 10 points or less
21:13 http://tenpoints.intertwinkles.org/publiclab
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21:29 liz has quit IRC
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23:24 Oscar <Oscar!~Oscar@qwebirc.media.mit.edu> has joined #publiclab
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