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| 02:46 | Shannon | #endmeeting |
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| 14:06 | meeting | Meeting started Sat Nov 3 14:06:17 2012 UTC. The chair is warren. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
| 14:06 | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting | |
| 14:11 | liz <liz!~lizqwebirc.media.mit.edu> has joined #publiclab |
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| 14:11 | liz | #map stitching |
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| 14:22 | crabi | is anybody chatting here? |
| 14:25 | Hudonnoodles | @crabi - we will be |
| 14:25 | we're having difficulties with power right now, so hopefully we'll be up and running in a bit | |
| 14:26 | #topic DIY Map Making Overview | |
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| 14:29 | Hudonnoodles | Stewart Long: use this opportunity to show some tips on making maps and walk through different situations |
| 14:29 | after presentation we can discuss future projects we can work on as a group | |
| 14:30 | Typically you go out and do a flight, and you have a folder of images on your machine. In this sample we only have 8. | |
| 14:30 | Before I open the map program, I just look at the pictures and look at the overall flight | |
| 14:32 | I use thumbnails | |
| 14:32 | mapknitter.org | |
| 14:32 | I log in with my usernap on mapknitter so projects can stay together under author | |
| 14:32 | liz <liz!~lizqwebirc.media.mit.edu> has joined #publiclab |
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| 14:32 | Hudonnoodles | start off by creating title and location information |
| 14:32 | liz | @jen this chat says "no title set" |
| 14:33 | Hudonnoodles | Really? I did a #topic DIY Map Making Overview at 10:28 |
| 14:33 | @ Liz do we need to do anything else? | |
| 14:34 | liz | the top of my chat says "(no topic set)" |
| 14:34 | Hudonnoodles | same here |
| 14:34 | liz | hmmmm bug @jeff |
| 14:34 | Hudonnoodles | @liz, it's apparently unrelated |
| 14:35 | you want to know what part of the flight you want to map | |
| 14:35 | sometimes it can be at the highest altitude or a specific area. | |
| 14:36 | the higher the altitude, the easier its going to process (or stitch) into a map | |
| 14:36 | there's going to be distortion around the perimeter. | |
| 14:37 | on the screen is a mapknitter project with 25 overlays | |
| 14:38 | Today we want to make a map of Lumcon, so later today there will be a mapknitter project | |
| 14:38 | We will be able to see it on the screen with better color | |
| 14:38 | You take each picture, you fit it, and then you lock it in place | |
| 14:38 | MapKnitter has this feature where you can make the entire image transparent or half opaque | |
| 14:39 | once you're satisfied with the image, you lock it in place and make it transparent | |
| 14:39 | you want to take each new picture and lock it again the base map | |
| 14:39 | *against (not again) | |
| 14:39 | You don't want to build upon your errors | |
| 14:39 | It's better to always go against your picture of reference | |
| 14:39 | When you're finally done with the whole scene, I make them all visible again and then export | |
| 14:39 | It's all about doing one picture at a time | |
| 14:40 | Fitting each picture on the map | |
| 14:40 | Stewart continue to show examples | |
| 14:40 | On maps like Tikehau Before/After, you use rocks and vegetation that's there year-to-year, rather than seasonal | |
| 14:40 | In urban areas there are a lot of features, but in rural areas you have to look for a big tree or a big tree | |
| 14:41 | something that is there year after year | |
| 14:41 | Burning Man 2010 | |
| 14:41 | Over 300 pictures | |
| 14:41 | there are lots and lots of pictures in it! | |
| 14:41 | On Screen: Flying Over Black Rock City - Geodata Collection - Video | |
| 14:41 | There were 16 site lines over the city | |
| 14:42 | Build out the Burning Man 2010 image - there was no ground control, we just used yellow lines | |
| 14:42 | Vector map came from the planning design from the city | |
| 14:43 | USe higher altitude flight to use for your lower altitude flight (using large scale to create the small scale) | |
| 14:43 | Jeff W: you can sometimes find a satellite map that's not in the google imagery | |
| 14:43 | In the country of Georgia, we got a map from the country that was significantly better than Google Maps. | |
| 14:43 | Bootstrapping process | |
| 14:44 | Mathew: Do you see this as a long term problem, if people continue to stitch over our maps since they're sometimes more up-to-date? | |
| 14:44 | Jeff W: It happens, but it's not that common now that our maps are sometimes Google Maps | |
| 14:45 | Chris F: Gowanus Canal, the imagery is going to improve. It's going to be harder and harder to have a balloon map that's better than a Google Earth image | |
| 14:45 | Stewart Long: MapKnitter takes number crunching away from user | |
| 14:45 | On Screen: behind the scenes work, GDAL Utilities | |
| 14:46 | gdal.org/gdal_utilities.html | |
| 14:46 | On Screen: Mission Dolores Park, San Francisco | |
| 14:46 | It's a rectangular park, we walked around the perimeter of the park. | |
| 14:47 | It was a project that had to be done in Photoshop | |
| 14:47 | Make the image in photoshop, then you go into Google Maps. Create ground points. Distributed evenly throughout where the mapping was done | |
| 14:47 | Take 24 points and save it as a KML file | |
| 14:47 | (so you can read the lat/long points) | |
| 14:48 | GDAL commands, every single ground control point is taking the xy from Photoshop in the document space and marrying it with the lat/long in real world | |
| 14:48 | It takes tme | |
| 14:48 | Dan Beaver: Brain numbing! | |
| 14:49 | *Beavers | |
| 14:49 | liz | gdal_translate -of GTiff -a_srs EPSG:4326 |
| 14:49 | Hudonnoodles | Stewart Long: Gdal2tiles |
| 14:49 | take picture and look at it different levels | |
| 14:49 | liz | gdalwarp -of GTiff -t_srs EPSG:4326 |
| 14:49 | Hudonnoodles | To do this manually, it takes 1-2 hours |
| 14:49 | MapKnitter takes that manual work away from the user | |
| 14:50 | Chris Fastie: Is there a size limit in MapKnitter? | |
| 14:50 | liz | gdaltotiles.py --title="<2012....etc" |
| 14:50 | Hudonnoodles | Jeff W: We used to have an unlimited number when we were cartagen knitter. We used to have spam exports. |
| 14:50 | But now we've fixed that. We do have limits, we have uLimits. All the processes have to run inside the "cage." | |
| 14:51 | Limited to ram and disk space | |
| 14:51 | Your entire job is taking up gigabytes of space. I don't remember the limit, but I think its 5 gigabytes | |
| 14:51 | If there's more demand, we can raise your limit by request | |
| 14:51 | liz | detailed instructions in the following notes: http://publiclaboratory.org/no[…]large-map-project |
| 14:52 | http://publiclaboratory.org/wiki/gdal-commands | |
| 14:52 | Hudonnoodles | Jeff W: The first time we realized it was a problem when part of a map was in France and the other part was in New York City. Lots of pixels in between! |
| 14:53 | Stewart Long: Related maps, like Burning Man 2009 and Burning Man 2010 | |
| 14:53 | http://publiclaboratory.org/ma[…]n-2010/2010-09-04 | |
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| 14:54 | Hudonnoodles | National Map |
| 14:54 | viewer.nationalmap.gov/viewer/# | |
| 14:55 | liz | download geotiffs of orthoimagery for use in photoshop |
| 14:55 | Hudonnoodles | And ask for help! If you don't know what to do. |
| 14:55 | Stewart Long: highlighting a few interesting projects | |
| 14:55 | liz | and National Map is "having intermittent issues" ;) |
| 14:55 | Hudonnoodles | Ft. Morgan Tracks in Google Earth |
| 14:56 | http://www.flickr.com/photos/g[…]earth/4897001954/ | |
| 14:56 | Oblique, not straight down | |
| 14:56 | liz | "you're the 'lawnmower' when you walk around your site to get swaths of imagery" |
| 14:57 | Hudonnoodles | Balloon Elevation Profile in Google Earth 5.2 |
| 14:57 | http://www.flickr.com/photos/g[…]earth/4701646651/ | |
| 14:57 | Don: How big was the balloon? | |
| 14:58 | Stewart: Standard Public Lab balloon | |
| 14:58 | Lafayette Ballon Flight Map | |
| 14:58 | *Balloon (can't find the link) | |
| 14:59 | http://www.flickr.com/photos/g[…]99116876/lightbox | |
| 14:59 | Found it. :) | |
| 15:00 | Weather was calm with no wind, brought the camera up and down real fast | |
| 15:01 | Jeff W: Mapknitting can be daunting if you have 30 images. But if you get a balloon real high, you can potentially get your entire area in one photo | |
| 15:01 | Stewart: It's not easy to fly high, but its great if you can | |
| 15:01 | 1500 feet is great! | |
| 15:02 | Chris E: Questions about elevations | |
| 15:02 | Stewart Long: When you're in MapKnitter, its critical to have a base map or a geo reference layer because you have to know where everything goes | |
| 15:03 | Pat C: How does it differ if you have a mountains or if you have a downtown area? | |
| 15:03 | Stewart L: It's not different, it's about the base map | |
| 15:04 | If you think abou flying around taking vertical pictures. They can be union because they're taken from the same perspective. | |
| 15:04 | Seamless Distortion | |
| 15:04 | http://publiclaboratory.org/no[…]amless-distortion | |
| 15:05 | When you have distorted buildings/shapes, you can follow the sidewalks and roadways to match | |
| 15:05 | Ignore the "stuff" that comes off the ground | |
| 15:07 | Jeff W: Warp Tool in Photoshop is a powerful tool | |
| 15:07 | result in a good stitch | |
| 15:07 | Liz had a bunch of maps in Rio that were on a really steep hill | |
| 15:08 | Occupy Oakland | |
| 15:09 | http://publiclaboratory.org/ma[…]d-10am/2011-11-02 | |
| 15:09 | http://publiclaboratory.org/ma[…]d-12pm/2011-11-02 | |
| 15:09 | started in the back of the pack and chased them with the balloon | |
| 15:09 | Jeff W: as they ran in terror!! | |
| 15:10 | Stewart: Caught up with the front of the parade. We got the entire parade as we raced through it. | |
| 15:10 | It was a specialized way of mapping | |
| 15:10 | everything we wanted to map on the ground was there | |
| 15:11 | You can see that there are people that are in more than one picture, but we made sure to race through | |
| 15:11 | Jeff W: Google isn't producing maps with any parades | |
| 15:11 | Steward Long: Chandeleur Islanda, Louisiana | |
| 15:11 | http://publiclaboratory.org/es[…]isiana/2010-05-08 | |
| 15:12 | If you know the height, you can rescale it | |
| 15:13 | Jeff W: discussed adding a feature on Mapknitter that can read information on your photo | |
| 15:13 | like GPS information | |
| 15:13 | You can res up by sitting in one place | |
| 15:14 | If anyone has GPS in images, there can be an initial placement | |
| 15:14 | Don: Seeing correlation is fairly advanced, where they take points that are common in the picture and correlate them. | |
| 15:14 | Pictures of Leaning Tower, correlate and you can get a 3D image | |
| 15:15 | There are packages designed fo rthis | |
| 15:15 | Pat Coyle: There are services that offer this for a fee | |
| 15:15 | Citizen Science notion, this is cartography. It's neo cartogrphy. It's people making maps. | |
| 15:15 | Stewart Long: The human factor is interesting. When you make the subset, it's people deciding what images to make | |
| 15:16 | In Pasadena, a trolley car went through one of the scenes and the people decided to keep the trolley car in the map. | |
| 15:16 | You have ultimate control when you do it yourself | |
| 15:16 | Wilkinson Bay (East), Louisiana | |
| 15:16 | http://publiclaboratory.org/wi[…]isiana-2010-07-22 | |
| 15:16 | Washington Square Park, New York City | |
| 15:17 | (project by Oscar) | |
| 15:17 | http://publiclaboratory.org/ma[…]w-york/2012-10-01 | |
| 15:17 | Used the center fountain and the grass on the outside | |
| 15:17 | and guess on the middle, because we had no georeference for it | |
| 15:17 | There's additionally a wild distortion on the arch | |
| 15:18 | Grand Isla, Louisiana | |
| 15:18 | http://publiclaboratory.org/ma[…]isiana/2011-02-25 | |
| 15:18 | Using same scale factor to determine the size of the beach | |
| 15:19 | a single row of images | |
| 15:19 | Rifle, Colorado | |
| 15:19 | http://publiclaboratory.org/es[…]lorado/2011-09-16 | |
| 15:19 | two processes that talk to each other | |
| 15:19 | Jeff W: Zoom in on the animals! | |
| 15:20 | Stewart: You can see goats and horses | |
| 15:20 | Jeff W: A great example. This is now the primary image on Google Images. The goats and horses are immortalized. | |
| 15:20 | Mathew: But the goats and horses may be in a different spot next time. | |
| 15:20 | Stewart Long: But there are a lot of stones and hard features that will be there through time | |
| 15:21 | Occupy UC Davis | |
| 15:21 | http://publiclaboratory.org/no[…]davis-nov-21-2011 | |
| 15:21 | difusion | |
| 15:21 | zoom in on the people | |
| 15:22 | 100-150 feet above ground level | |
| 15:22 | resolution is what you can distinguish with each pixel | |
| 15:22 | with 1 meter resolution you can barely distinguish a car | |
| 15:22 | with 1 foot resolution you can see a chair | |
| 15:23 | with 2 centimeter foot resolution you can see people and a bicycle spoke | |
| 15:23 | You won't really invade on people's privacy because you only see the very top of their head. You can barely tell if its a man or a woman. | |
| 15:23 | Privacy isn't a problem you run into from vertical imaging | |
| 15:23 | Today we plan to shoot more outside | |
| 15:24 | Lumcon Pictures from shots on Thursday | |
| 15:24 | Open up for Questions on projects you want to map | |
| 15:24 | Shannon: 10-15 minutes for questions | |
| 15:25 | Adam: Are people generally figuring out their height by lenght of string? What's the equation for height? | |
| 15:25 | Stewart Long: If you're at a 1000 feet height, you cover about 1000 feet on the ground | |
| 15:25 | The focal length of the lens makes it vary too | |
| 15:25 | Jeff W: a good ballpark is 1000feet high for 1000feet | |
| 15:26 | Stewart: I measure different things. I measure a feature in the base map and a feature in the new map. | |
| 15:26 | And do that 4 or 5 times and you know you're average | |
| 15:26 | MapKnitter will do it for you MAGICALLY | |
| 15:26 | Jeff W: Looking at the area of the whole area and averaging | |
| 15:26 | It's not a bad estimate, giving the possible sources of error | |
| 15:27 | *given | |
| 15:27 | Stewart: With balloon line I measure 100feet, every 100 feet I put a little tab on my line so I know how far out | |
| 15:27 | It's nice feedback when making the map | |
| 15:27 | The more you use your tool kit, the more comfortable you'll be | |
| 15:28 | Jeff w: Method chosen was ad hoc. It was chosen for part of the function | |
| 15:28 | There's an advanced option tab in the export window in MapKnitter. You can choose resolution | |
| 15:28 | There's a histogram of all of your resolutions. | |
| 15:29 | Adam: Webapp on resolution of photos. Can you explain? The app you drag the files. | |
| 15:30 | Jeff W: It would be nice to drag and drop into mapknitter. | |
| 15:31 | mathew | I sorted the notes by topic (cities, coastal areas, etc) and added maps from the chat. check them out here: |
| 15:31 | http://publiclaboratory.org/no[…]-talks-map-making | |
| 15:32 | Hudonnoodles | http://archive.publiclaborator[…]tics/dragdrop-js/ |
| 15:32 | Thanks Mathew! | |
| 15:34 | Using images from Mathew to demo the drag/drop feature of link above | |
| 15:36 | Thermal flashlight, the resolution of a given color is the circle of light it shines | |
| 15:38 | Oops. I just realized that Adam is really Scott in all of the above references. Sorry! | |
| 15:39 | In the drag/drop app, you can analyze the file size of the images. | |
| 15:39 | The biggest images are usually the sharpest and have the most detail | |
| 15:46 | @Liz - how do we end the meeting? | |
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| 15:56 | liz | #endmeeting |
| 15:57 | Hudonnoodles | #Topic Spectrometry |
| 16:02 | Jeff W: PLOTS Spectral Workbench, quick overview and then some quick spectrocity | |
| 16:02 | http://spectralworkbench.org/ | |
| 16:03 | Showing Video: Public Lab DIY Spectrometry Kickstarter | |
| 16:03 | http://www.kickstarter.com/pro[…]-spectrometry-kit | |
| 16:06 | problem statement: we can point at brown stuff and call it oil, but sometimes you want to make a more definitive identification | |
| 16:06 | taking samples, sending to labs and getting results back | |
| 16:07 | Scott: We go out in the field to show people the oil, but if we do send it to the Lab it costs $100s to $1000s of dollars to identify our samples are BP Oil | |
| 16:08 | Jeff: Scientists generally use spectrometry at some part of their research. | |
| 16:08 | IF you look at more specific colors, beyond red blue and yellow, there's a real pattern that emerges | |
| 16:08 | Types of Outcomes: Is this BP Oil or Motor Oil? | |
| 16:08 | Is this oil or gunk? | |
| 16:09 | What do we want to prove with a simple tool? | |
| 16:10 | Jeff: Passing around the newer version of the spectrometer | |
| 16:10 | To separate out all the colors, you need a prism | |
| 16:10 | DVD is cheap and almost available anywhere. You can slice a DVD and then glue it to the screen | |
| 16:10 | the beam needs to hit the webcam and split out all the colors | |
| 16:11 | The rest is software, post tool | |
| 16:11 | http://spectralworkbench.org/ | |
| 16:12 | The hard box makes it a bit more sturdy | |
| 16:13 | Capture online on Spectral Workbench | |
| 16:13 | You can choose the external, allows | |
| 16:13 | Flip the spectrometer up at a light, and you can get a reading real time | |
| 16:14 | @Liz - feel free to add to the notes. I'm not sure if I'm using the most technical of terms. :) | |
| 16:16 | Typical Output: http://spectralworkbench.org/spectra/show/1153 | |
| 16:18 | http://spectralworkbench.org/spectra/show/913 | |
| 16:19 | Atmosphere of Pfizer, Brooklyn | |
| 16:19 | We're interested in oil, you can shine a full spectrum light through oil and measure what's absorbed | |
| 16:20 | But a lot of the good information is off the scale on the infrared | |
| 16:20 | You can shine a laser through oil (example is a pure green light), but when you shine it through oil sample you see a different color | |
| 16:21 | *olive oil, extra virgin | |
| 16:24 | Playing with lasers! | |
| 16:25 | Focus on Spectrometry Project - measure the color | |
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| 16:27 | eustatic | hey, is this thing on |
| 16:27 | Hudonnoodles | yup yup! |
| 16:30 | A lot of people can build the tool | |
| 16:30 | now the question is, can we work on the science part of it? | |
| 16:31 | can we take samples and build credibility with our tests | |
| 16:31 | eustatic | polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons flouresce in UV. these are double bonded "benzene" 6-carbon rings. the "ene" designates a double bond within the molecule. so "propane" is an "ane", a single bonded molecule. |
| 16:31 | Hudonnoodles | the Aquarium material is building coral and they need to analyze their lights, so they can utilize the spectrometer |
| 16:31 | hopefully that can build a momentum to some of the harder cases | |
| 16:32 | eustatic | so propane would not flouresce? that is not clear to me |
| 16:32 | Hudonnoodles | Flame Emission Spectrometry - heat things really hot and it will glow so you basically only see atoms |
| 16:32 | eustatic | but propane, butane, etc are not PAHs, because they are not "cyclic" |
| 16:35 | Hudonnoodles | Jeff W: we can do what we want. we can build, we can do tests, we can boot up spectralworkbench |
| 16:35 | Its up to the group, what should we do? Or break up into group and try them all. | |
| 16:35 | Film strips, with infrared photography | |
| 16:36 | Dan Beavers: Lets play with stuff! | |
| 16:36 | Group is now playing with stuff. | |
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| 18:23 | Hudonnoodles | #topic The State of Kite & Balloons for Mapping by Mathew L |
| 18:25 | Japanese Kite Festival Image | |
| 18:25 | What would it be like to have an integrated culture of kites for mapping? | |
| 18:26 | In Japanese Image, mostly young people holding a handmade kite | |
| 18:26 | The kites are rectangular, easy to make | |
| 18:26 | Most Japanese kites are created with only one knot | |
| 18:26 | Giant flying kites | |
| 18:27 | Flying is fun, which is what we should always include in our kite flying | |
| 18:27 | It's a social activity | |
| 18:27 | engage with community while gathering images | |
| 18:27 | liz has quit IRC | |
| 18:27 | Hudonnoodles | Image on Screen: tyvek kite by splitting bamboon |
| 18:28 | Currently, we're working on kites that are easier to build | |
| 18:28 | "You can tell that it works because people are happy." -Mathew | |
| 18:29 | Observational Balloons | |
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| 18:30 | Hudonnoodles | Balloons and Kites are possibly the least aggressive technologies you can have |
| 18:31 | Image on Screen: One of Stewart's balloons with four attachment points | |
| 18:32 | "Wouldn't it kick butt if we could fit the entire kit into a briefcase?" -Mathew | |
| 18:33 | #topic Balloon & Kite Mapping | |
| 18:33 | Field Trip, Entire team is out mapping Lumcon | |
| 18:33 | Estimated time of return = 4PM | |
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| 20:27 | Hudonnoodles | #topic Spectrometry Continued |
| 20:28 | Jeff Warren and a group are testing the spectrometry of bunsen burner in Room 202 | |
| 20:28 | *of a | |
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| 20:53 | Hudonnoodles_ | #topic Indoor Air quality and Hydrogen Sulfide Detection |
| 20:54 | Dan Beavers: pre-discussion talk. One Laptop per child. | |
| 20:54 | Founder wanted to create a laptop that cost less than $100 per computer. HE created a laptop that has wifi and meshing. | |
| 20:54 | It has a sunlight readable screen that used reflective technology | |
| 20:55 | Inside the screen is colored, and outdoors it's black/white | |
| 20:55 | It uses sugar as an operating system. Dual boot. | |
| 20:55 | http://one.laptop.org/ | |
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| 20:59 | Hudonnoodles | #topic Air Quality Monitoring & Hydrogen Sulfide Testing |
| 21:00 | Shannon: Black and white photography paper. Covering it with a solution and exposing it to hydrogen sulfide | |
| 21:00 | pre-test in New Nexico | |
| 21:01 | Preliminary testing right now, to see if it's possible to do | |
| 21:01 | Don and JEff have started to talk about developing a sensing component to do some calibration for this test | |
| 21:01 | The New Mexico group is slightly stalled | |
| 21:01 | Trying to combine the communities working on this project | |
| 21:02 | Jeff W: Sara ordered hydrogen sulfide sensing components. Just the sensor, no electronics. | |
| 21:02 | For a long time, it seemed like no one knew how to connect to them. | |
| 21:02 | They're silver and $70/piece | |
| 21:03 | http://publiclaboratory.org/to[…]n-sulfide-sensing | |
| 21:03 | It's sensitive to humidity and temperature | |
| 21:03 | To make our own, we would have to also buy a humidity and temp sensor | |
| 21:04 | More info is on the link above (http://publiclaboratory.org/to[…]-sulfide-sensing) | |
| 21:04 | No matter how much work we do, we may not get a super sensitive sensor | |
| 21:05 | Dan Beavers: How much do the dreagers (sp?) cost? | |
| 21:05 | Shannon: 10 for $90 | |
| 21:06 | In our first test we used a lot of them because we would tape them to PCV tubes. The hydrogen sulfide in the swamp wouldn't be high enough to be picked up by the tubes. | |
| 21:06 | *draeger tubs | |
| 21:06 | *draeger tubes | |
| 21:06 | We need to figure out the industrial side of things. | |
| 21:07 | No change in color on the tubes, even when we left out for 8+ hours | |
| 21:07 | They're not the pump draeger tube, all you need to do is crack the tubes off. | |
| 21:08 | Don: There seems to be a saturation issue, if you leave it out for 2 days does it max out? | |
| 21:08 | Shannon: With the draeger tubes, it maxes out at 8 hours | |
| 21:10 | Dan Beavers: When you take the cap off, you expose it to light? Right? | |
| 21:10 | Shannon: Apparently it only is exposed when it comes in contact with...one specific element. | |
| 21:10 | Need to go back to basic questions. | |
| 21:14 | We need to further the discussion with more people | |
| 21:14 | Dan Beavers: Is it light sensitive? | |
| 21:14 | Shannon: Potentially | |
| 21:15 | Looking at visual on screen | |
| 21:15 | Jeff W: There should be a correlation between distance and darkness | |
| 21:15 | Dan: and concentration | |
| 21:16 | Another factor is wind dirctor | |
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| 21:16 | Hudonnoodles | Jeff W: It may be better to look at it as a heat map |
| 21:16 | Don: At UMASS we were discussing about calibration and how it could be very toxic | |
| 21:16 | Dan Beavers: Isn't it just a natural gas? | |
| 21:17 | Shannon: Yeah, it is. But it also can be dangerous. | |
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| 21:17 | Hudonnoodles | Jeff W: Human health hazard is 5+ |
| 21:17 | Jack Summers, researcher | |
| 21:18 | http://publiclaboratory.org/people/j-summers | |
| 21:20 | Trying to find the cost of a glove bag | |
| 21:20 | Jeff W: At this point, we're testing the tool and not the site | |
| 21:20 | Shannon: There's two issues. The network of people working on it is not broad enough yet. | |
| 21:20 | If we go to Louisiana, it would be 5 hours from New Orleans. | |
| 21:21 | MExico City doesn't want to move forward until they have standardized safety procedures in place | |
| 21:21 | Jeff W: The sites that they were looking at, they may be very sure that there's hydrogen sulfide. In some ways you don't want to do anything that there's uncertainty | |
| 21:21 | At this point, it seems like we should do it in a closed chamber | |
| 21:21 | with some rotting compost | |
| 21:22 | Jeff W: With spectrometry, I've been doing a lot of testing with Olive Oil. Although no one is interested in olive oil. It's still a super safe material and kid friendly. | |
| 21:24 | http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/la[…]ich-atmosbag.html | |
| 21:24 | Oscar: How serious of a problem is it? | |
| 21:24 | Shannon: with the boom with hydro fracking, its becoming a bigger problem with air emissions | |
| 21:25 | If you're severely exposed to it, you can be killed on the spot. It's primarily a problem for employees at oil sites. | |
| 21:26 | Alexandra: You can smell it at very small concentrations. But if you get enough of it, you can no longer smell at all. And at that point, it's almost too late because you can die soon after. | |
| 21:26 | Sensors are $100 to $600 | |
| 21:27 | We want to detect. | |
| 21:28 | Alexandra: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_sulfide | |
| 21:28 | Jeff: What is the dream and awesome sensor we want to create? | |
| 21:29 | Throw it on the ground and come back to itt the next day? Yes/No dangerous level? | |
| 21:29 | Or do we want to throw it on a string? | |
| 21:29 | Let's think about the use before the technology. | |
| 21:29 | AND. What is the "Hello World" for this? | |
| 21:29 | Just to show that the tool is working | |
| 21:30 | Don Blair: With this project, it may be a combination. IT may be a piece of paper with a binary type result | |
| 21:30 | Then to follow up with a more sophisticated sensor if you have a bigger issue | |
| 21:31 | Air Glove Bag: http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ed072p96 | |
| 21:32 | Jeff W: http://publiclaboratory.org/to[…]r-quality-mapping | |
| 21:32 | A very beginning proof of concept | |
| 21:33 | Whatever the case, if we can find sensors that will detect this, then we want to try to find a way to cheaply produce maps of your home to show the sources | |
| 21:33 | This is related to the thermal flashlight project | |
| 21:33 | The idea is to put a gas sensor and have it shine a color light | |
| 21:33 | https://www.google.com/search?[…]&biw=1411&bih=710 | |
| 21:33 | Example: photographic genre | |
| 21:34 | They put a light on top of their roomba | |
| 21:34 | There's no data except for the movement of the roomba | |
| 21:34 | We thought, could we make teh color of the light change with the presence of some chemical | |
| 21:34 | The thermal flashlight is this, but with heat and without the roomba | |
| 21:34 | The work of the students at RISD, they were thinking about gas leaks in apartment. | |
| 21:34 | They bought a few sensors and assembled it | |
| 21:35 | The sensor isn't so specific | |
| 21:35 | It changes on the scale of feet, not inches | |
| 21:36 | The roomba is good at covering space | |
| 21:36 | It would be interesting to put the sensor in the throat of the roomba | |
| 21:37 | Another idea is to put into a hamster ball with legos | |
| 21:37 | It didn't get stuck on things | |
| 21:37 | It detected legos, but it wasnt very reliable | |
| 21:39 | formaldehyde sensing - we need to think about a handheld or wand sensor because it's more than ground level sensing | |
| 21:42 | Commercial Glove Bags: $30-$40 | |
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| 21:43 | Hudonnoodles | http://spot.us/pitches/1535-tr[…]al-housing-crisis |
| 21:43 | Looking at FEMA trailers post-Katrina | |
| 21:44 | Jeff W: We should talk to more people working on similar projects | |
| 21:45 | For example, people who live near a smokestack with burn off. Its not something Jeff W. sees everyday. | |
| 21:46 | Shannon: part of the idea is to start the idea with formaldehyde. With mold, do you need a filter? | |
| 21:46 | Mathew: Cleaned out his vents and found mold. They were sick all winter from it. May be of interest. | |
| 21:47 | And Liz Barry found mold in housing complex. Only labs can test for mold. But it made Liz challenge the assertion. | |
| 21:48 | @Liz we were just talking about you! :) | |
| 21:49 | Jeff W: How do people test for asbestus? | |
| 21:49 | Dan: There's a filter. | |
| 21:50 | Don: What are the dangers? And what are the tools for monitoring? | |
| 21:50 | A localized guide. | |
| 21:51 | Jeff W: A really good problem statement is the first step. | |
| 21:51 | Maybe it would be really useful to come up with a set of questions to help frame the problem? | |
| 21:51 | Dan Beavers: a flow chart | |
| 21:51 | Jeff W: For example, is this dangerous to human health? | |
| 21:52 | OSHA Standards: http://www.osha.gov/law-regs.html | |
| 21:52 | Are they enough? | |
| 21:52 | What are the questions you want to ask to frame a problem? (when developing a tool) | |
| 21:52 | --Is it dangerous? | |
| 21:53 | --In what quantities? | |
| 21:53 | --Where is it commonly found? | |
| 21:53 | --Is it air? Or liquid? Or soil? Or solid? | |
| 21:53 | --In what concentration? | |
| 21:54 | --How is it currently being tested? How much does it cost? | |
| 21:54 | --Who comes in contact with it? | |
| 21:54 | --How people come in contact with it? | |
| 21:54 | --Exposure time? | |
| 21:54 | --How prevalent is it? | |
| 21:54 | --Localized? What geographic area? | |
| 21:55 | --Emergency Response Guide Book, FEMA (all chemicals that are transported and how to deal with hazards) | |
| 21:56 | --What are the resources to answer some of these questions? | |
| 21:58 | http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/canute[…]uide-menu-227.htm | |
| 21:58 | The entire booklet above | |
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| 22:10 | Hudonnoodles_ | #Topic Review of Photogrammetry Class |
| 22:11 | On Screen: National Wetlands Inventory map from the U.S. Fish and WIldlife Service | |
| 22:11 | Different plants are going to have different texture | |
| 22:13 | Chris: Is there ever a resolution of finding out what all that green actually is? | |
| 22:13 | Scott: Shrub, Fresh watered forested shrub... | |
| 22:13 | Some of the green is just marsh, then there's shrubs | |
| 22:14 | Hudonnoodles has quit IRC | |
| 22:17 | Hudonnoodles_ | Signature Development |
| 22:17 | Different spectra to draw lines | |
| 22:17 | What is the more human way to do it? | |
| 22:17 | Handout: Signature Development Assessment Summary | |
| 22:18 | Includes Photo Characteristics, Explain, If yes - characterize | |
| 22:18 | Mathew: Is there an image reference for each of these? | |
| 22:18 | Jeff W: Or a MapMill feature | |
| 22:18 | Maybe you would be asked, "Choose a shape for this feature?" OR "Choose a color for this feature?" | |
| 22:20 | Dan: Metadata needs to be discussed with the images | |
| 22:20 | What do you want to do with it? | |
| 22:20 | Scott: Metadata is necessary, but no one wants to do it | |
| 22:22 | Similar color/texture | |
| 22:33 | Color indicates how much photosynthesis is going on | |
| 22:34 | Depending on the season of the flight, you're going to get different colors | |
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| 22:49 | Hudonnoodles_ | Scott: There is an issue with metadata and needing to do some of it manually |
| 22:49 | Any other questions about interpreting aerial imagery? How to find out, what is it? | |
| 22:53 | Clashifier | |
| 22:53 | clashifier.publiclaboratory.org | |
| 22:54 | It doesn't work very well in this version, but it was an try | |
| 22:54 | It's a way to classify the image | |
| 22:54 | It's only looking at red, green, and blue | |
| 22:54 | Based on someone making that model, you can classify | |
| 22:54 | IT colors the whole image based on the training | |
| 22:55 | It doesn't work significantly well, but it's a work in progress | |
| 22:56 | It's a crude classification | |
| 22:58 | People are much better than computers at classifying and identifying plants | |
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| 23:18 | Hudonnoodles | #topic Happy Hour |
| 23:18 | #endmeeting | |
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