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#olpc-paraguay, 2011-01-06

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
01:12 satellit_ is now known as satellit_afk
01:21 m_anish is now known as m_anish_afk
01:41 m_anish_afk is now known as m_anish
02:33 rralcala <rralcala!~rralcala@host-2-229.a2.cvc.com.py> has joined #olpc-paraguay
03:18 m_anish is now known as m_anish_afk
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10:58 meeting * alsroot_away ha dejado (Ping timeout: 276 segundos)
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11:28 mukesh_dce <mukesh_dce!~chatzilla@> has joined #olpc-paraguay
11:38 meeting * alsroot_away nick cambiado a alsroot
12:27 rralcala <rralcala!~rralcala@mail.paraguayeduca.org> has joined #olpc-paraguay
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13:10 scs_scs <scs_scs!~Paraguay@mail.paraguayeduca.org> has joined #olpc-paraguay
13:10 scs_scs rralcala: Anish dice que le llames de vuelta si hace falta
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16:40 aldoa <aldoa!~Paraguay@mail.paraguayeduca.org> has joined #olpc-paraguay
16:41 aldoa car|0s: buenas tardes
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17:40 tch <tch!~tch@r190-64-154-224.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy> has joined #olpc-paraguay
17:42 bernie car|0s: buenas
17:43 car|0s bernie, hello
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18:21 m_anish_afk is now known as m_anish
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20:36 m_anish rralcala1, http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Rebuilding_OLPC_kernel
20:55 m_anish is now known as m_anish_afk
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21:25 m_anish_afk is now known as m_anish
21:39 m_anish is now known as m_anish_afk
21:40 m_anish_afk is now known as m_anish
21:41 rralcala <rralcala!~rralcala@host-2-229.a2.cvc.com.py> has joined #olpc-paraguay
21:59 m_anish rralcala, ping
21:59 rralcala m_anish: pong
21:59 m_anish rralcala, http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/D[…]ng_custom_kernels
22:08 rralcala m_anish: Thank you
22:11 m_anish bernie, ping, atm, schools are closed and only testing that can be done would be by edu team...
22:12 bernie, current plan of action is delivering them a stable tested build by 1 feb, they testing for 1-1.5 wks, reporting issues, we fixing and deliverring a working build by 22 feb
22:12 rralcala, ^^ pls comment if i missed anything
22:13 bernie m_anish: it seems too late.
22:14 m_anish: I think you'd better deliver to them a not-so-stable and not-so-well-tested build sooner, and iterate a few times
22:14 m_anish: explain very well to them that you're going to fix a few bugs every time you give them a new test release, until we get something very solid.
22:15 m_anish: they might be scared and bothered by this idea that there are "many versions", but that's life.
22:15 m_anish bernie, so instead of one iteration, maybe have two? rralcala what do you think?
22:16 bernie m_anish: they should be already used to update their laptops frequently, because we did 2 release cycles last year
22:16 rralcala: ^^^ do you agree? ^^^
22:16 m_anish: 3-4 iterations seems better to me
22:16 m_anish: one release per week, or even more often
22:16 m_anish: you can't get 100 things right in just one try
22:17 m_anish: also, they need time to test and report bugs, and you need time to fix them.
22:17 m_anish bernie, from what rralcala told me the formadores won't be available to test till beginning of feb!
22:18 bernie m_anish: all large sw projects (gnome, kde, ubuntu, fedora, kernel, windows...) have several betas or release candidates before issuing a stable release.
22:18 m_anish: maybe you can get kids to test
22:18 m_anish bernie, i think what we can do is just give them as stable a build as possible (that doesn't blow up every 5 mins) and have the new features rolled in slowly  via the yum updater
22:18 bernie m_anish: in my experience, the formadores don't really find many bugs. the kids do.
22:19 m_anish bernie, the schools are closed, no kids (acc. to rralcala )
22:19 there were some summer camps in dec but they're over now
22:19 bernie m_anish: yes, the updater will let you do the stabilization releases later on.
22:19 rralcala bernie: I don't think that they like to do a lot of field testing, as they are with very little time
22:19 bernie m_anish: kids in caacupe are often available to test outside school. carla knows a lot of them
22:20 m_anish bernie, meanwhile have a pipeline/mechanism upstream to do basic testing of new rpms, which we can 'safely' pass to the edu team?
22:20 bernie rralcala: i had this same problem with them last year: they want stability, but they're unwilling to test. I tried to explain that there's no way to ensure things work without testing, but I'm not sure the message got through.
22:20 m_anish upstream=dx/mainline
22:20 bernie rralcala: testing with kids is a nice alternative strategy. they're very enthusiastic to test new things and they give good feedback.
22:21 rralcala: and they know how to use sugar better than we do
22:22 rralcala bernie: I dont think so about the message going through, but, about the kids, the idea is to give ED. team a semi-tested build
22:22 bernie: after their aproval, were going to caacupe with the updater so kids can give us feedback
22:22 m_anish rralcala, maybe 2-3 semi-tested builds better than one?
22:22 bernie rralcala: but, tested by whom? we're no good at finding bugs because we don't use the sw like users do
22:23 rralcala: artificial test plans don't work very well (ask carlos)
22:23 rralcala bernie:  I can :)
22:23 bernie m_anish: the more interim builds, the better the end quality you'll reach
22:23 rralcala bernie: anyway, they will not do that much testing, and by that they aprove us to go to caacupe with their concern
22:24 bernie rralcala: well, if we can fix bugs later on when they appear in the field, it's not a big problem
22:25 m_anish rralcala, maybe we can get the kids to do the testing? every effort we make now will probably save us 3x the effort later on.
22:25 rralcala bernie: true, It depends very much on the succes of the updater
22:25 bernie rralcala: as you said, getting the OS updater done is the highest priority now.
22:26 rralcala bernie: ànd also, confirming that it actually works
22:26 In caacupe condition i mean
22:27 m_anish rralcala, we better have some real good/big rpms to test with by then :)
22:28 rralcala m_anish:  Yeap, from a 100 Mt away from the AP and with little battery
22:29 bernie: The idea is: develteam: I think that this build is stable, edteam: We also think that, develteam: Ok were going to update an entire school
22:29 bernie: and after that we rely on kids and updater
22:31 m_anish bernie, you said carla knows some kids who could test, she'll be back in a week from vacation. maybe we can start kids testing in parallel to our work then.
22:31 rralcala, ^^^
22:32 rralcala m_anish: We can work with kids living on downtown
22:34 m_anish rralcala, great! how soon?
22:34 rralcala, bernie we need to refresh the list of activities with updated versions real soon as well :), i'll work with dfarning on this
22:37 rralcala m_anish: We've to ask carla and see if she can form a group that wants to go to caacupe office to test, we've a ex-formador in the tech team now
22:39 how do I sign runos.zip and runrd.zip anyone?
22:40 m_anish rralcala, that would be great. I actually wish to go to caacupe more often as well :)
22:40 has to run :/
22:46 bernie m_anish: testing in parallel would be good. you can't ever do enough of that...
22:46 rralcala: oh really? who is it?
22:47 rralcala Juan Guillen
22:47 bernie rralcala: the easiest way to sign runos and runrd is letting olpc-os-builder do it as part of the build process
22:47 rralcala Ok
22:48 bernie: I like to generate a build for a 4gb SD Card
22:48 bernie rralcala: enable the "signing" module and configure the .ini file with the deployment keys
22:48 rralcala bernie: according to the wiki we CAN boot with security enable, Am i right?
22:48 bernie rralcala: I think m_anish already knows how to do that. if not, let me know and I'll try to guide you from here
22:48 rralcala: but I'm leaving in 30 mins
22:49 rralcala bernie: Ok, Thank you very much
22:49 bernie rralcala: yes, our builds, if signed, will boot with security enabled on our laptops
22:49 rralcala: our keys don't work with other olpc laptops though
22:49 rralcala From SD bay too right?
22:49 bernie rralcala: I think so
22:49 rralcala: yes, most definitely yes
22:50 rralcala: as long as everything's signed
22:50 rralcala bernie: Thanks for confirming that
22:50 bernie rralcala: for testing, using the external sd card doesn't actually save much time
22:50 rralcala: it's better to reflash the machine
22:50 rralcala: may be different for the XO-1.5
22:51 rralcala bernie: The idea is to recover machines with storage issues
22:51 1.0
22:51 bernie rralcala: ah yes. good idea then
22:51 rralcala bernie: because we?e short on motherboards not to say zero
22:54 bernie rralcala: the spare parts did not include some new motherboards?
22:55 rralcala bernie: We've used all of them, we have about 250/3800 replaced
22:56 bernie rralcala: oh, cool. what's the current situation of broken laptop?
22:56 rralcala bernie: And almost everyone has at least a red dot (more that 10 commonly) in the disk check
22:57 bernie rralcala: that's not problematic... jffs2 does bad block handling automatically
22:58 rralcala: when the flash completely dies, it's not due to too many bad blocks. it may be a broken chip or broken CAFÈ (Camera And Flash Ènabler)
22:58 rralcala bernie: Sure, but there are some that won't boot anymore those are the ones that we'd like to reuse with a SD card
23:21 bernie rralcala: sure, I think it's a good idea. there were many like that, I remember
23:45 rralcala m_anish: ping

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