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#olpc-paraguay, 2010-11-26

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Time Nick Message
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10:25 rgs__ walterbender_: let me know when you are awake, have a gtk question that you might be able to answer if you look into the future with your crystal ball
11:02 fgonzalez <fgonzalez!~Paraguay@mail.paraguayeduca.org> has joined #olpc-paraguay
11:02 fgonzalez car|0s: ping
11:03 car|0s: buen dia, me podrias cargar este serial para usar como repuesto por favor?: SHC838007E4
11:03 car|0s: gracias
11:21 manusheel is now known as manusheel_afk
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12:33 car|0s fgonzalez, listo
12:34 fgonzalez car|0s: gracias!
12:54 walterbender_ rgs__: on my first cup of coffee
13:28 rgs__ walterbender_: have you given any thoughts to this: http://blogs.gnome.org/alexl/2[…]23/gtk3-vs-html5/
13:29 walterbender_: might come in handy for Sugar 2.x
13:29 walterbender_: i know we have our plates full on the present, but its interesting to keep an eye on the trends
13:33 walterbender_ looks
13:34 rgs__: I wonder if this is the same video I saw the other day... gtk in a browser...
13:34 rgs__ walterbender_: it was sent to sugar-devel
13:34 walterbender_: so most likely
13:35 walterbender_ rgs__: f so, pretty cool. I'll watch again
13:36 rgs__ walterbender_: it makes sense for the Browser camp to set the trends on how we should design/write/deploy apps in the future
13:36 walterbender_: on the other hand, ChromeOS will be delayed says the Media. So its one step forward and one step backwards for Browsers to conquer the world of GUI apps
13:36 walterbender_ rgs__: you telepathy guys have to do some work too...
13:37 rgs__ walterbender_: you read my mind!
13:37 walterbender_: the GUI stuff is there, now collaboration needs to be taken to the next level
13:37 walterbender_ rgs__: and in many respects all we are doing is moving complexity from one place to another from the UI POV
13:38 but the win is the ever elusive write once, run anywhere goal...
13:38 rgs__ walterbender_: the ever elusive...
13:38 walterbender_ questions whether that is the correct goal for Sugar, but hey...
13:39 rgs__ walterbender_: not sure if it aligns with Sugar's vision and mision.. but if it becomes the defacto way to do apps (right), it'll help us reach more and more kids
13:40 walterbender_: the way the software industry is re-shaping itself (if don't i can't actually grasp it completely) sounds very promosing
13:40 *promising
13:40 --> back to cairo, pango and gtk adventures
13:41 walterbender_ rgs__: I suspect it will become the defacto... and so we have little choice in the long run... so we make the best of it...
13:41 wonders how view source will work :)
13:41 rgs__ walterbender_: heh!
13:41 walterbender_ rgs__: I have a Cairo version of TA, if you want it... very slooooow.
13:42 rgs__ walterbender_: is in Git? I'll eventually play with it, might come in useful for my test experiments
13:42 thinks its ironic that Sun is not here to see how its mottos dominate the Computer Industry (Write once, run everywhere. The network is the computer)
13:43 walterbender_ rgs__: do you have ready access to either F14 or Python 2.7?
13:47 rgs__ walterbender_: both
13:48 walterbender_ rgs__: could you test something for me... in Python:
13:48 import locale
13:48 locale.format('$f FOO', 123)
13:48 do you get an error?
13:48 rgs__ walterbender_: login into my F14 VM
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13:51 rgs__ walterbender_: output:
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13:51 rgs__ >>> import locale
13:51 >>> locale.format('$f FOO', 123)
13:51 Traceback (most recent call last):
13:51  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
13:51  File "/usr/lib64/python2.7/locale.py", line 189, in format
13:51    "format specifier, %s not valid") % repr(percent))
13:51 ValueError: format() must be given exactly one %char format specifier, '$f FOO' not valid
13:51 walterbender_: but it doesnt work on Python 2.6 on Debian either..
13:52 walterbender_: did i get the line right?
13:52 manusheel <manusheel!~manusheel@gateway/shell/sugarlabs.org/x-pgauvopbuddiyuzq> has joined #olpc-paraguay
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13:53 rgs__ walterbender_: still there? Freenode seems to be going down
13:53 walterbender_ rgs__: still here
13:53 rgs__: must be a mirror...
13:54 rgs__ walterbender_: is that the error you were expecting?
13:54 walterbender_ rgs__: yes.
13:54 rgs__ walterbender_: exact same thing with Debian.
13:55 walterbender_: using Python 2.6
13:55 walterbender_ rgs__: it doesn't give an error with Python 2.6
13:55 rgs__ thats why i was asking if we had the line correct
13:55 walterbender_: look:
13:55 walterbender_ rgs__: but I wonder if it is a valid use of format...
13:55 rgs__ Python 2.6.6 (r266:84292, Oct  9 2010, 12:24:52)
13:55 [GCC 4.4.5] on linux2
13:55 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
13:55 >>> import locale
13:55 >>> locale.format('$f FOO', 123)
13:55 Traceback (most recent call last):
13:55  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
13:55  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/locale.py", line 177, in format
13:55    raise ValueError("format() must be given exactly one %char
13:56 walterbender_: yeah, maybe the fact that it work for you before is the *actual* bug
13:56 *worked
13:56 walterbender_ hmm... when I do it on an old Sugar system with Python 2.6, it works fine... but not on 2.7
13:56 rgs__ walterbender_: perhaps some lib modifying locale's behaviour?
13:57 walterbender_ rgs__: I agree. It was a bug I bumped up against with the new updater code... Not sure when/how/whom it was introduced
13:57 rgs__ walterbender_: (augmenting the supported formats)
13:57 walterbender_: what exactly are you trying to achieve with that line? Could you point me to the line in TA's source, maybe we can look up the canonical way of doing it
13:58 walterbender_ try:  '%s FOO' % (locale.format('%f', 123))
13:58 rgs__: this was in sugar code, not TA :)
13:59 rgs__: for once, I am not to blame :)
13:59 rgs__ walterbender_: heh
13:59 walterbender_: that works on Deb / Py 2.6
13:59 tries in F14 / Py 2.7
13:59 walterbender_ rgs__: can you thing of a better way to do this?
14:00 rgs__ walterbender_: what are we trying to optimize?
14:00 walterbender_: it looks readable enough like it is? Why are we trying to change it?
14:00 walterbender_ rgs__: the original was:  locale.format(_('%.1f MB'), size / 1024.0 / 1024)
14:01 rgs__: I just want it to be clear... and we need to pass this through gettext
14:01 rgs__ walterbender_: wait
14:02 walterbender_: the first line you gave me was
14:02 walterbender_ wonders where else in the Sugar code this construct is used
14:02 rgs__ locale.format('$f FOO', 123)
14:02 was that even right??
14:02 shouldn't have been %f ?
14:02 walterbender_ yes, %f. Did I type it wrong?
14:02 rgs__ walterbender_: yup
14:03 walterbender_ oops. sorry.
14:03 rgs__ walterbender_: lets start again, let me try %f in F14
14:03 walterbender_ rgs__: but I suspect it won't matter :(
14:03 rgs__ walterbender_: no, forgive me, i just ctrl-c/ctrl-v without thinking
14:03 walterbender_: but we might get a better clue!
14:03 walterbender_: ( i was in Baker Street last Sunday, so I feel inspired by Sherlock)
14:03 walterbender_ is still getting used to his new keyboard
14:03 rgs__ tries
14:04 walterbender_ rgs__: are you into chess?
14:04 rgs__ walterbender_: no, lousy player
14:04 car|0s did someone said chess?
14:04 walterbender_ rgs__: there is a great book of chess puzzles inspired by Sherlock Holmes
14:04 rgs__ walterbender_: nice
14:05 walterbender_: hey, same error
14:05 walterbender_: but it has to be a Python bug
14:05 walterbender_: maybe i should try Python 2.7 in Debian?
14:05 walterbender_ rgs__: interesting even if you aren't a great chess player (I am terrible).
14:05 rgs__ walterbender_: that would show us if the Fedora guys screwed up
14:05 installs python 2.7 on Debian
14:05 walterbender_ rgs__: if you wouldn't mind, just for my peace of mind
14:06 is very happy over all with F14 and was really miserable with Ubuntu 10.10
14:06 rgs__ walterbender_: i feel intrigued by this bug
14:07 walterbender_: https://bugs.launchpad.net/upd[…]nager/+bug/673297
14:08 walterbender_: format_string also works on 2.6
14:08 walterbender_: so that should keep everyone happy
14:09 walterbender_: myster solved, Watson
14:10 *mystery
14:11 walterbender_ rgs__: how'd you find that bug report?
14:11 rgs__ walterbender_: i work for telepathy don't i?
14:11 walterbender_: asked google for python 2.7 locale bug
14:12 walterbender_ rgs__: I wasted my time plowing through the 2.7 release notes :)
14:13 lots of changes to format in 2.7
14:13 rgs__ walterbender_: i am son of the Google era
14:13 walterbender_: hope those changes are justified
14:13 walterbender_: lots of developers are going to do lots of head scratching
14:14 walterbender_ rgs__: the usual expression in US English is 'child of the Google era' :)
14:14 rgs__: I am an old grey beard
14:14 rgs__: or as Bernie would say, a Beardo
14:14 car|0s bernie, around? Im using soas now and the xyz-liveinstaller is gone.. testing with liveinst
14:15 walterbender_ car|0s: I think xyz-liveinstaller went away unsupported a few releases ago
14:16 car|0s: I'd ask on the soas mailing list or check oiut all the great work Satelitt is doing.
14:17 car|0s walterbender_, will do, thanks
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16:30 satellit_ car|os zyx-livinstaller can be yum installed....
16:32 author: dmc (at) cloudsession(com) com has been keeping it current
16:33 car|0s sorry
16:37 car|0s satellit_, it worked just fine with liveinst
16:38 satellit_ car|0s: zyx-liveinst is neat if you want to duplicate the LiveCD the way you customized it as you had it running. ie add programs. It does not require you to go thru firstboot and gdm logon
16:39 car|0s satellit_, yeah.. but i dont need it to be live.. i was trying to do a permanent install
16:39 satellit_, turning a netbook into an XO
16:40 satellit_ then liveinst is better. I like to install the desktop spin and then do yum groupinstall sugar-desktop & yum install sugar-emulator. you get both on laptop
16:41 like burnie's os,,,.py
16:41 gnome plus sugar
16:42 car|0s satellit_, i tried that way.. but too many dependencies issues
16:42 satellit_ ok
16:42 car|0s satellit_, its posible to do it for yourself..
16:42 satellit_, but.. to replicate on 100+ netbooks.. no thanks
16:42 =)
16:43 satellit_ I use a 4 GB USB for this and use VMPlayer or Virtualbox to play the files installed there.....easy to copy by drag-drop to stick.
16:44 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/M[…]B_with_Virtualbox  does not have to be Mac...
16:47 or: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/S[…]ld_Your_Own_Remix plus liveinst
16:48 s/zyx-liveinstaller from CD
16:48 NOT liveinst
16:50 car|0s: another idea: build one HD and then use dd command to copy to others? I have not done this for Big HD but it works fine for similar USB's 16 GB largest I have tried
16:52 car|0s satellit_, interesting..
16:53 satellit_ it needs to be tested..! not sure
16:53 easy to repeat command just up arrow in terminal
16:56 possibly use an external USB drive enclosure? and change identical drives?
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17:29 walterbender_ satellit_: re your recent VB experiments, any luck with sound?
17:35 rgs__ walterbender_: wooow, it looks veeeery good
17:35 satellit_ walterbender_ I will check ..... the removable 4 GB USB system really works well with the mirabelle file I uploaded......Have not tested sound yet. Doing it now
17:39 fgonzalez <fgonzalez!~Paraguay@mail.paraguayeduca.org> has joined #olpc-paraguay
17:39 fgonzalez car|0s: me podes cargar este serial para uso por cambio de placa por favor?: SHC837020B6
17:47 satellit_ walterbender: speak-18.xo DL fro ASLO work fine on Mac Book Air Virtualbox install. Nice audio
17:51 car|0s fgonzalez, listo
17:54 fgonzalez car|0s: gracias!
17:56 meeting * alsroot on #olpc-paraguay-en se ha unido
18:02 fgonzalez car|0s: te paso otro por favor: SHC836023BD
18:07 car|0s fgonzalez, listo
18:09 fgonzalez ca
18:09 car|0s: gracias digo
18:15 walterbender_ satellit_: any chance tamtam works?
18:17 satellit_ I will look....
18:28 walterbender_ tam tam jam-54.xo and tam tam mini-53.xo both have sound but it is garbled on Mac Mini. like it is broken in slices.
18:28 mieabelle
18:29 s/mirabelle v-3 install to VB HD
18:31 uses CoreAudio ICH AC97 in VB
18:35 walterbender_ satellit_: I may try with vmware to see if it makes a difference
18:35 satellit_ ok
18:37 I just increased memory and restarted....no change for tam tam edit
18:38 going to try different PC Acer Aspire One (Ubuntu 9.10) with Virtualbox and 2nd USB Mirabelle.....Last tests were with MacNook Air
18:53 no difference...
19:09 walterbender_ satellit_: FYI, Sean is working on a what could be a major SoaS deployment, but we need a working tamtam
19:12 satellit_ walterbender: I just tried VB on Acer Aspire One... no sound on VB HD and crashed 4GB 2nd USB. It seems need a fast machine for tam tam,,,,,
19:14 what machine and OS are you contemplating for the Soas deployment?
19:20 f-14 Soas installed to VB HD does not start for me get's pop up message
19:21 (tam tam edit)
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19:34 walterbender_ satellit_: I don't know... but since tamtam runs on an XO 1.0, it is hard to imagine it needing a fast machine.
19:42 [scs] bernie: do you know a good tool to translate documentation? wiki perhaps?
19:43 walterbender_ [scs]: about the best non-commercial tool is probably google translate
19:44 car|0s <car|0s!~carlos@mail.paraguayeduca.org> has joined #olpc-paraguay
19:57 rgs__ walterbender_: i think he might be referring to how to maintain multiple language versions of a document (i.e. gettext), more than to the act of translating
19:57 walterbender_ oh
19:57 ok... then the answer is gettext :)
19:58 rgs__ walterbender_: a special plugin in mediawiki for that?
19:58 walterbender_: or you just hand build article/es ?
19:58 [scs]: esto sigue con nuestra conversacion de la otra vez?
20:02 walterbender_ rgs__: by now ther emay be a plug in... I used to write Perl scripts to semi-automate it
20:02 rgs__: that is how I maintained the OLPC website back in the day :)
20:03 rgs__ walterbender_: nice, do you hve those scripts handy?
20:03 walterbender_: handy == less than 30 seconds search on your hard drive
20:03 walterbender_ rgs__: I could try to dig them up on my old old laptop
20:04 rgs__ walterbender_: ah never mind, only if you happen to boot it
20:04 walterbender_: but what was the main idea in the code?
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20:12 satellit_ walterbender_ this plays tam tam edit: http://people.sugarlabs.org/Tg[…]E-Sugar-11.3.vmdk
20:12 on MacBook Air
20:13 with Virtualbox 3.2
20:14 import it with other 2 files http://people.sugarlabs.org/Tg[…]openSUSE_sugar.mf and http://people.sugarlabs.org/Tg[…]s-2-blueberry.ovf
20:22 tch has quit IRC
20:32 bernie [scs]: hmm... nope sorry
20:33 rgs__ is now known as rgs
20:48 satellit_ walterbender_ Just installed trisquel-sugar_3.0-20091021_i686.iso on MacBook Air Virtualbox 3.2 It runs tam tam mini fine. good sound. tam tam suite already installed....
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