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00:19 | tch has left #olpc-paraguay | |
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12:52 | car|0s | tch, hello |
12:54 | tch | car|0s: que hay carlao |
12:59 | car|0s | tch, como andamos |
12:59 | tch, me quede sin saldo en mi bucket de activaciones.. necesito 174 | |
13:02 | tch | car|0s: hecho, creo que voy a tener que hackear el sistema para darle el password a rralcala |
13:02 | car|0s | tch, seria bueno =) |
13:02 | tch, arigatou | |
13:02 | tch, hoy es iva | |
13:02 | tch | el tema es que yo no recuerdo, tengo guardado nomas, raul en realidad tiene el pas |
13:05 | rgs__ | tch: sep |
13:06 | tch: yo le pase el pass a Alki | |
13:17 | car|0s: pedile a rralcala q te aumente el bucket | |
13:19 | walterbender has quit IRC | |
13:20 | car|0s | rgs__, ya esta hecho =) |
13:55 | rralcala <rralcala!~rralcala![]() |
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14:22 | rralcala | tch: ping |
14:43 | tch | rralcala: pong que hay rober |
14:57 | car|0s | Oct 7 10:57:11 schoolserver puppetd[18201]: (//Node[base]/useraccounts/User[rralcala]/ensure) created |
14:57 | Oct 7 10:57:11 schoolserver puppetd[18201]: (//Node[base]/useraccounts/Ssh_authorized_key[rralcala![]() |
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14:57 | Oct 7 10:57:51 schoolserver puppetd[18201]: (//Node[base]/useraccounts/User[jorge]/ensure) created | |
14:58 | Oct 7 10:57:51 schoolserver puppetd[18201]: (//Node[base]/useraccounts/Ssh_authorized_key[jorge![]() |
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14:58 | rralcala, jasg ^^ | |
14:58 | rralcala, jasg eso es en cristo rey. 1080 | |
15:03 | rgs__ | car|0s: no se puede loggear? |
15:04 | car|0s: en caso de q no pueda tenes q revisar los permisos de /home/rralcala/.ssh | |
15:04 | car|0s: pero creo que puppet hace bien eso | |
15:04 | car|0s | rgs__, rralcala se logueo ya.. jorge esta teniendo problemas.. reviso los permisos |
15:05 | rgs__, permisos ok | |
15:05 | rgs__, ya esta =) | |
15:12 | rralcala, jasg listo menos gudelia 691, herminia 254 y sta teresita 15215 | |
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21:44 | morganya_afk is now known as morganya | |
22:18 | rgs__ | morganya: Good night! |
22:18 | morganya | rgs__: good night! Sorry we weren't able to chat today. |
22:22 | rgs__ | morganya: np |
22:22 | morganya: so, where di we left off yesterday? | |
22:22 | *did | |
22:23 | morganya | rgs__: hmm ... |
22:23 | rgs__ | morganya: browsing history? |
22:24 | morganya | rgs__: sure, that sounds good :) |
22:24 | rgs__ | looks at the Wiki |
22:25 | morganya: lets iterate on the questions, one by one and see what is needed to be able to anser it | |
22:25 | *answer | |
22:25 | makes sense? | |
22:26 | 1) Which activity is the most popular one? | |
22:26 | morganya | rgs__: sure |
22:26 | rgs__ | -> easy, plus with your scripts we can then classify by gender, shift, etc. |
22:26 | 2) What is the average time spend on each activity? | |
22:27 | morganya | rgs__: trickier, but we could estimate using the two time fields |
22:27 | rgs__ | -> needs changes to Sugar, we need to keep the start and end time. And even though, we still wouldn't have a way to measure the intensity of the time spend in the activity |
22:27 | morganya | if the estimates are wildly off-base, we'll have to scrap it and wait for the update, though |
22:27 | rgs__ | morganya: could you take note that we need to check with a Sugar dev what those fields actually mean? |
22:28 | morganya | sounds good. I could put a note in the wiki |
22:28 | rgs__ | morganya: shall we move to he next or do you have something else to add re this question |
22:28 | ? | |
22:28 | morganya | next is fine :) |
22:28 | rgs__ | (please do put a note in the Wiki so we can track our progress) |
22:28 | 3) Is collaboration really been used? How often? With what activities? | |
22:28 | morganya | rgs__: collaboration: we have this data as well |
22:29 | rgs__ | -> we could use the share field. How often is easy to calc. With which activities too. Piece of cake. |
22:29 | morganya | and we can add more facets to this question as well by adding grade, gender, etc. |
22:29 | rgs__ | morganya: yes - I think those classifications would come in handy for almost every question |
22:29 | morganya | e.g. do kids collaborate mostly with kids from their grade? Siblings? etc. |
22:29 | rgs__ | morganya: among genders? Flirting?!? |
22:29 | morganya | haha |
22:29 | rgs__ | morganya: next? |
22:30 | (you re the note taker!) | |
22:30 | morganya | it's too bad that most of the instances of collaboration I've witnessed are two kids sharing one laptop -- those aren't captured in the Journal :) |
22:30 | sure, next ... the level of intensity. | |
22:31 | we have a few indicators now -- e.g. did the kid name the activity -- but we'd need more data for better measures. | |
22:31 | rgs__ | morganya: that would be an indicator of what? (if he named the entry) |
22:31 | morganya | indicator of the level of work dedicated to the activity |
22:31 | rgs__ | morganya: re the scarce use of collaboration - it'll be interesting thought food for the devs, why isn't collab actually being used in the expected way? |
22:32 | morganya: (ah nice way of measuring dedication invested into an activity entry) | |
22:34 | morganya | rgs__: I have some notes on collaboration from the field too ... I've seen a couple instances of teachers trying to use it and having a lot of difficulties. |
22:34 | rgs__ | morganya: which makes me wonder which type of collab they were using (server-less or with server) |
22:35 | morganya: as a sidenote, I've heard lots of Tomeu's effort (he is one of the main Sugar devs) has being going into the collab stack lately, so we should expect improvements there! | |
22:36 | morganya: shall we move forward? | |
22:36 | morganya | ah, good! I thought I remember hearing that bernie had switched off peer-to-peer connections in one of the later versions of Sugar? |
22:36 | sure :) | |
22:36 | rgs__ | (unless you want to add something else) |
22:36 | morganya | (the mesh capability) |
22:37 | rgs__ | (lets get into details about mesh and collab in our next meeting) |
22:37 | (i rather have on outline of the work ahead - what is data extraction and manipulation vs what will be enhancements/modifications to the Journal in order to get what is needed) | |
22:38 | 4) How can we measure the level of work dedicated to each activity? Did the kid take the time to name the activity? Did he do annotations as writing a description of his work? Did he send it across the network to another friend? Did he publish on the Web? | |
22:38 | morganya | rgs__: next question is about use in vs. out of class: with the extra data from Inventario, we have an estimate of this. |
22:38 | well, actually ... | |
22:38 | it depends on the time fields. | |
22:39 | rgs__ | morganya: yes. that is your homework, find out the semantics of those fields |
22:39 | morganya | if mtime = modification time, then it should be a good indicator for when that particular instance was last opened. |
22:40 | but I have no idea what timestamp could be ... | |
22:40 | rgs__ | bernie: ^ |
22:41 | going back to 4) | |
22:42 | morganya | ok |
22:43 | rgs__ | -> you mentioned the customize title of one way to measure the amount of work devoted to an entry. We could also use the description field and the tags field (which I suspect is barely used). I believe there is no way to know if it was send with the send-to function, but we can know if it was sure. We should investigate if there is a way to know if a file was uploaded with Browse - or come with a hack to mark that |
22:44 | s/sure/share/g | |
22:44 | morganya | if we could know that a file was uploaded, that would be interesting, though from the fields given it doesn't look like it. |
22:44 | rgs__ | (sorry - talking to girls from eastern europe trashed my English) |
22:44 | morganya | and these should be taken with a grain of salt -- from classroom and home observations it seems like most sharing is in-person -- not much goes over the network :) |
22:44 | ha :) | |
22:45 | rgs__ | morganya: well that is something interesting that your work will yield - what workds and what doesnt on the field, and how can devs improve that |
22:45 | morganya: now that I think of it, maybe we could dump this conversation to a table with 3 columns: | |
22:46 | 1) question | |
22:46 | 2) how to anser it | |
22:46 | *ansewr | |
22:46 | *answer (crap!) | |
22:46 | morganya | I understand, don't worry :) |
22:46 | rgs__ | 3) code cahnges / hacks needed to achieve the answer |
22:46 | morganya | that sounds great |
22:46 | rgs__ | (its this Catolonian beer) |
22:46 | morganya: more homework for you - buld the table on the Wiki! Yay! | |
22:47 | morganya: next question? | |
22:48 | morganya | hehe |
22:48 | sure | |
22:48 | rgs__ | 5) What activities are used most in class? Outside of class? |
22:48 | -> we can anser this by using one of the time fields + looking up the kids shift | |
22:48 | morganya | yes -- hopefully the time fields give the info we want |
22:48 | rgs__ | (i think the XOs have UTC time, so some care should be used when calculating time) |
22:49 | morganya | good to know |
22:49 | rgs__ | 6) Are there any differences between the activities boys use and the activities girls use? |
22:50 | -> trivial lookup with Inventario | |
22:50 | 7) What games are most popular? What educational games are most popular? What is the difference in use between the two? | |
22:50 | -> we need to construct a games classification lookup table | |
22:50 | morganya | this will require some classification |
22:50 | yes | |
22:50 | rgs__ | yup |
22:50 | 8) How do new activities spread through the population? (Who are the "opinion leaders" at each school? How do activities go between schools? Are there differences between urban and rural schools, or between large and small schools?) | |
22:51 | hmm - not sure this is a question for the Journal data | |
22:51 | 9) Are there differences in use between grades? What activities are most popular with younger children vs. older children? | |
22:51 | morganya | we may not have fine-grained game info, either -- kids play lots of games online or in Wine or Gnome, and I suspect that that info wouldn't be saved from what I understand |
22:51 | rgs__ | -> same answer as 6) |
22:51 | morganya | for 8) we can look at the first time new activities were used |
22:51 | and chart those by time | |
22:52 | rgs__ | morganya: ah, so the question is not *how* but *how fast*? |
22:52 | morganya | we may not have enough data to see meaningful patterns, but it can give us clues ... |
22:52 | rgs__ | morganya: like, activity CatchBernie was first seen an laptop 101 and then 3 minutes later on 60 more laptops? |
22:52 | morganya | well, "how" is more interesting, but "how fast" is probably the best we can do from the data :) |
22:52 | rgs__ | s/an/on/g |
22:53 | morganya | yeah, that sort of thing :) |
22:53 | or everyone in one grade was using it on day two, then it jumped to the next grade ... | |
22:53 | but the data may be too chaotic | |
22:53 | anyway, I thought it'd be worth a look | |
22:54 | rgs__ | indeed |
22:55 | so, I see we can query the data for many of this questions manually | |
22:55 | morganya | that's all of the questions for now ... |
22:55 | rgs__ | are you planning on actually running some fancy data mining tool on it? |
22:55 | morganya | yes |
22:55 | perhaps :) I may just reformat it and run it through SPSS, though. | |
22:56 | it can deal with big data-sets and is reasonably powerful. Otherwise, I can re-teach myself R (which I've used in a few classes but have since forgotten) and use their data-mining extension | |
22:56 | but for basic exploration, it's easier for me to just go with SPSS | |
22:57 | (R is the good open-source version, and ultimately a lot more powerful, but you really have to know what you want to do ...) | |
22:57 | rgs__ | wonderful, any particular format in which you need the data layed out to feed it to SPSS? |
22:58 | morganya | a CSV file would be fine, but I'd be happy to do more script-writing to get the data in that form. |
22:58 | rgs__ | bernie: ^. Chastise Morgan for using non-FOSS stuff! |
22:58 | morganya | hangs head in shame |
22:59 | CSV would be useful for R as well ... it's generally well-supported | |
23:00 | rgs__ | morganya: alright. I think I am done for the day, its getting late here.. can you dump are discussion to the Wiki? We can resume tomorrow. Hopefully this weekend we'll be able to run our best batch of processing and then have an estimate of the calendar the lays ahead |
23:00 | morganya | rgs__: sounds good |
23:00 | good night! | |
23:00 | rgs__ | *our discussion |
23:00 | *firt batch | |
23:00 | bah - you got it! | |
23:00 | night people! | |
23:00 | morganya | yes :) |
23:02 | rgs__ | morganya: and pls give a heads up about our (modest but interesting) progress to the folks in the recipients list of the 1st email I fired with this topic. |
23:03 | morganya | sure |
23:30 | walterbender <walterbender!~chatzilla![]() |
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