Sugar meeting

All times shown according to UTC.

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12:52	car\|0s	tch, hello
12:54	tch	car\|0s: que hay carlao
12:59	car\|0s	tch, como andamos
12:59		tch, me quede sin saldo en mi bucket de activaciones.. necesito 174
13:02	tch	car\|0s: hecho, creo que voy a tener que hackear el sistema para darle el password a rralcala
13:02	car\|0s	tch, seria bueno =)
13:02		tch, arigatou
13:02		tch, hoy es iva
13:02	tch	el tema es que yo no recuerdo, tengo guardado nomas, raul en realidad tiene el pas
13:05	rgs__	tch: sep
13:06		tch: yo le pase el pass a Alki
13:17		car\|0s: pedile a rralcala q te aumente el bucket
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13:20	car\|0s	rgs__, ya esta hecho =)
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14:22	rralcala	tch: ping
14:43	tch	rralcala: pong que hay rober
14:57	car\|0s	Oct 7 10:57:11 schoolserver puppetd[18201]: (//Node[base]/useraccounts/User[rralcala]/ensure) created
14:57		Oct 7 10:57:11 schoolserver puppetd[18201]: (//Node[base]/useraccounts/Ssh_authorized_key[rralcalaRRA-Ubuntu]/ensure) created
14:57		Oct 7 10:57:51 schoolserver puppetd[18201]: (//Node[base]/useraccounts/User[jorge]/ensure) created
14:58		Oct 7 10:57:51 schoolserver puppetd[18201]: (//Node[base]/useraccounts/Ssh_authorized_key[jorgejorge-laptop]/ensure) created
14:58		rralcala, jasg ^^
14:58		rralcala, jasg eso es en cristo rey. 1080
15:03	rgs__	car\|0s: no se puede loggear?
15:04		car\|0s: en caso de q no pueda tenes q revisar los permisos de /home/rralcala/.ssh
15:04		car\|0s: pero creo que puppet hace bien eso
15:04	car\|0s	rgs__, rralcala se logueo ya.. jorge esta teniendo problemas.. reviso los permisos
15:05		rgs__, permisos ok
15:05		rgs__, ya esta =)
15:12		rralcala, jasg listo menos gudelia 691, herminia 254 y sta teresita 15215
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22:18	rgs__	morganya: Good night!
22:18	morganya	rgs__: good night! Sorry we weren't able to chat today.
22:22	rgs__	morganya: np
22:22		morganya: so, where di we left off yesterday?
22:22		*did
22:23	morganya	rgs__: hmm ...
22:23	rgs__	morganya: browsing history?
22:24	morganya	rgs__: sure, that sounds good :)
22:24	rgs__	looks at the Wiki
22:25		morganya: lets iterate on the questions, one by one and see what is needed to be able to anser it
22:25		*answer
22:25		makes sense?
22:26		1) Which activity is the most popular one?
22:26	morganya	rgs__: sure
22:26	rgs__	-> easy, plus with your scripts we can then classify by gender, shift, etc.
22:26		2) What is the average time spend on each activity?
22:27	morganya	rgs__: trickier, but we could estimate using the two time fields
22:27	rgs__	-> needs changes to Sugar, we need to keep the start and end time. And even though, we still wouldn't have a way to measure the intensity of the time spend in the activity
22:27	morganya	if the estimates are wildly off-base, we'll have to scrap it and wait for the update, though
22:27	rgs__	morganya: could you take note that we need to check with a Sugar dev what those fields actually mean?
22:28	morganya	sounds good. I could put a note in the wiki
22:28	rgs__	morganya: shall we move to he next or do you have something else to add re this question
22:28		?
22:28	morganya	next is fine :)
22:28	rgs__	(please do put a note in the Wiki so we can track our progress)
22:28		3) Is collaboration really been used? How often? With what activities?
22:28	morganya	rgs__: collaboration: we have this data as well
22:29	rgs__	-> we could use the share field. How often is easy to calc. With which activities too. Piece of cake.
22:29	morganya	and we can add more facets to this question as well by adding grade, gender, etc.
22:29	rgs__	morganya: yes - I think those classifications would come in handy for almost every question
22:29	morganya	e.g. do kids collaborate mostly with kids from their grade? Siblings? etc.
22:29	rgs__	morganya: among genders? Flirting?!?
22:29	morganya	haha
22:29	rgs__	morganya: next?
22:30		(you re the note taker!)
22:30	morganya	it's too bad that most of the instances of collaboration I've witnessed are two kids sharing one laptop -- those aren't captured in the Journal :)
22:30		sure, next ... the level of intensity.
22:31		we have a few indicators now -- e.g. did the kid name the activity -- but we'd need more data for better measures.
22:31	rgs__	morganya: that would be an indicator of what? (if he named the entry)
22:31	morganya	indicator of the level of work dedicated to the activity
22:31	rgs__	morganya: re the scarce use of collaboration - it'll be interesting thought food for the devs, why isn't collab actually being used in the expected way?
22:32		morganya: (ah nice way of measuring dedication invested into an activity entry)
22:34	morganya	rgs__: I have some notes on collaboration from the field too ... I've seen a couple instances of teachers trying to use it and having a lot of difficulties.
22:34	rgs__	morganya: which makes me wonder which type of collab they were using (server-less or with server)
22:35		morganya: as a sidenote, I've heard lots of Tomeu's effort (he is one of the main Sugar devs) has being going into the collab stack lately, so we should expect improvements there!
22:36		morganya: shall we move forward?
22:36	morganya	ah, good! I thought I remember hearing that bernie had switched off peer-to-peer connections in one of the later versions of Sugar?
22:36		sure :)
22:36	rgs__	(unless you want to add something else)
22:36	morganya	(the mesh capability)
22:37	rgs__	(lets get into details about mesh and collab in our next meeting)
22:37		(i rather have on outline of the work ahead - what is data extraction and manipulation vs what will be enhancements/modifications to the Journal in order to get what is needed)
22:38		4) How can we measure the level of work dedicated to each activity? Did the kid take the time to name the activity? Did he do annotations as writing a description of his work? Did he send it across the network to another friend? Did he publish on the Web?
22:38	morganya	rgs__: next question is about use in vs. out of class: with the extra data from Inventario, we have an estimate of this.
22:38		well, actually ...
22:38		it depends on the time fields.
22:39	rgs__	morganya: yes. that is your homework, find out the semantics of those fields
22:39	morganya	if mtime = modification time, then it should be a good indicator for when that particular instance was last opened.
22:40		but I have no idea what timestamp could be ...
22:40	rgs__	bernie: ^
22:41		going back to 4)
22:42	morganya	ok
22:43	rgs__	-> you mentioned the customize title of one way to measure the amount of work devoted to an entry. We could also use the description field and the tags field (which I suspect is barely used). I believe there is no way to know if it was send with the send-to function, but we can know if it was sure. We should investigate if there is a way to know if a file was uploaded with Browse - or come with a hack to mark that
22:44		s/sure/share/g
22:44	morganya	if we could know that a file was uploaded, that would be interesting, though from the fields given it doesn't look like it.
22:44	rgs__	(sorry - talking to girls from eastern europe trashed my English)
22:44	morganya	and these should be taken with a grain of salt -- from classroom and home observations it seems like most sharing is in-person -- not much goes over the network :)
22:44		ha :)
22:45	rgs__	morganya: well that is something interesting that your work will yield - what workds and what doesnt on the field, and how can devs improve that
22:45		morganya: now that I think of it, maybe we could dump this conversation to a table with 3 columns:
22:46		1) question
22:46		2) how to anser it
22:46		*ansewr
22:46		*answer (crap!)
22:46	morganya	I understand, don't worry :)
22:46	rgs__	3) code cahnges / hacks needed to achieve the answer
22:46	morganya	that sounds great
22:46	rgs__	(its this Catolonian beer)
22:46		morganya: more homework for you - buld the table on the Wiki! Yay!
22:47		morganya: next question?
22:48	morganya	hehe
22:48		sure
22:48	rgs__	5) What activities are used most in class? Outside of class?
22:48		-> we can anser this by using one of the time fields + looking up the kids shift
22:48	morganya	yes -- hopefully the time fields give the info we want
22:48	rgs__	(i think the XOs have UTC time, so some care should be used when calculating time)
22:49	morganya	good to know
22:49	rgs__	6) Are there any differences between the activities boys use and the activities girls use?
22:50		-> trivial lookup with Inventario
22:50		7) What games are most popular? What educational games are most popular? What is the difference in use between the two?
22:50		-> we need to construct a games classification lookup table
22:50	morganya	this will require some classification
22:50		yes
22:50	rgs__	yup
22:50		8) How do new activities spread through the population? (Who are the "opinion leaders" at each school? How do activities go between schools? Are there differences between urban and rural schools, or between large and small schools?)
22:51		hmm - not sure this is a question for the Journal data
22:51		9) Are there differences in use between grades? What activities are most popular with younger children vs. older children?
22:51	morganya	we may not have fine-grained game info, either -- kids play lots of games online or in Wine or Gnome, and I suspect that that info wouldn't be saved from what I understand
22:51	rgs__	-> same answer as 6)
22:51	morganya	for 8) we can look at the first time new activities were used
22:51		and chart those by time
22:52	rgs__	morganya: ah, so the question is not how but how fast?
22:52	morganya	we may not have enough data to see meaningful patterns, but it can give us clues ...
22:52	rgs__	morganya: like, activity CatchBernie was first seen an laptop 101 and then 3 minutes later on 60 more laptops?
22:52	morganya	well, "how" is more interesting, but "how fast" is probably the best we can do from the data :)
22:52	rgs__	s/an/on/g
22:53	morganya	yeah, that sort of thing :)
22:53		or everyone in one grade was using it on day two, then it jumped to the next grade ...
22:53		but the data may be too chaotic
22:53		anyway, I thought it'd be worth a look
22:54	rgs__	indeed
22:55		so, I see we can query the data for many of this questions manually
22:55	morganya	that's all of the questions for now ...
22:55	rgs__	are you planning on actually running some fancy data mining tool on it?
22:55	morganya	yes
22:55		perhaps :) I may just reformat it and run it through SPSS, though.
22:56		it can deal with big data-sets and is reasonably powerful. Otherwise, I can re-teach myself R (which I've used in a few classes but have since forgotten) and use their data-mining extension
22:56		but for basic exploration, it's easier for me to just go with SPSS
22:57		(R is the good open-source version, and ultimately a lot more powerful, but you really have to know what you want to do ...)
22:57	rgs__	wonderful, any particular format in which you need the data layed out to feed it to SPSS?
22:58	morganya	a CSV file would be fine, but I'd be happy to do more script-writing to get the data in that form.
22:58	rgs__	bernie: ^. Chastise Morgan for using non-FOSS stuff!
22:58	morganya	hangs head in shame
22:59		CSV would be useful for R as well ... it's generally well-supported
23:00	rgs__	morganya: alright. I think I am done for the day, its getting late here.. can you dump are discussion to the Wiki? We can resume tomorrow. Hopefully this weekend we'll be able to run our best batch of processing and then have an estimate of the calendar the lays ahead
23:00	morganya	rgs__: sounds good
23:00		good night!
23:00	rgs__	*our discussion
23:00		*firt batch
23:00		bah - you got it!
23:00		night people!
23:00	morganya	yes :)
23:02	rgs__	morganya: and pls give a heads up about our (modest but interesting) progress to the folks in the recipients list of the 1st email I fired with this topic.
23:03	morganya	sure
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#olpc-paraguay, 2010-10-07