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#olpc-meeting, 2009-02-06

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
14:20 _sj_ ok
14:21 let's start with xo pools, since people are here specifically to talk about that
14:21 there's a new Boston pool being used by the cambridge friends' school
14:21 and for a couple outreach events this month
14:22 a new pool being started in australia/oceania
14:22 (without a site yet but planning a formal xo library site)
14:22 a request for a 10 xo pool from bolivia
14:22 and a request for a new repair center pool from nepal
14:22 kiko, can you talk about the bolivia pool?
14:22 CanoeBerry CH pool too?
14:22 (Switzerland..)
14:23 _sj_ yes, and a ch pool, related to a project-contest they are running
14:23 yamaplos Bolinux pool? you mean Bolixo?  Bolixo is 10 broken XO, already received and being worked on, then OLE-Bolivia Teacher Training is 80 (requested)
14:23 Dunno a request for 10 for Bolivia...
14:23 _sj_ sorry, that was kiko's request, not the bolinux request :)
14:24 the bolinux request you put on the agenda is the 80 machine project?
14:24 icarito _sj_: your lost, kiko and I are in peru
14:24 kikomayorga hi, the one who knows about the bolivia pool is sebastian (icarito). I´m on the hardware repair centre in Lima, called EscueLab. The laptops are here. Were getting them out. Fixing small customs delay
14:24 yamaplos NO Bolinux project
14:24 OLE Bolivia = 80 requested, through the DP form
14:24 icarito that is not a pool of new machines kiko
14:25 that is a pool of defect machines
14:25 kikomayorga right.
14:25 icarito we are here about possible contributor's program
14:25 _sj_ icarito, I know you are, I was confused about yama's addition to the agenda
14:25 CanoeBerry kiko: how much did the customs folk rob you?
14:25 kikomayorga $38.5 for each broken laptop
14:25 CanoeBerry insane.
14:25 kikomayorga that we need tyo be fixed
14:25 yamaplos sorry, bro, I put it right there where it says "updates and reports", all there is is that those guys are working on them, thanks!
14:26 _sj_ yama, ok
14:26 kiko: you are requesting another 10 new machines, yes?
14:26 mchua_ (Sorry about that, wifi disconnected. Can someone send me backlog from meetbot start?)
14:27 (wait... meetbot logs automatically. nm.)
14:27 kikomayorga actually we need a special permission for the xos tyo be exonerated.. yes , i am requesting a lot of new ones.... dont wat to loose time with the taxes issue
14:28 _sj_ kiko: ok.  would the new xos be for a contributor/project pool?
14:28 kikomayorga yes _sj_ we are requesting 10 working ones
14:28 _sj_ would they also be for the repairs center?
14:28 icarito _sj_: we would like to pool machines for contributors
14:28 i already do this informally here
14:28 _sj_ great.  just making sure.
14:28 CanoeBerry kiko&icarito: will you be submitting this 10-XO contrib program applic soon?
14:28 icarito i can pool my xos together with kiko's
14:28 kikomayorga yes. contributors, of course not for the repair_ YES
14:29 right, escuelb plans to offer infrastructure to contributors progrmas so , this is a host.
14:29 mchua_ Are these local pools listed on some wiki page somewhere, with instructions on how nearby people can interact with them? homunq was asking before and neither of us could find much on the subject.
14:29 kikomayorga we can pool them together
14:29 icarito for me this pooling is a new thing
14:29 but its a good idea
14:29 also I'm sure sugarlabs colombia folks will want to take part
14:30 and I think its crucial for OLPC
14:30 yamaplos They have all support I can give them - Icarito and I are planning good stuff to happen in the Peru-Bolivia border area
14:30 icarito to support these efforts
14:30 kikomayorga right!
14:30 befana hi all
14:31 CanoeBerry aside: thanks dsd_ for rescuing Peter Robinson's Contrib Program XO yesterday -- a donor worked with dsd_ and I to pay for shipping (RT30642)
14:31 _sj_ kiko, seems good to me.
14:31 mchua, will post on the agedna afterwards, there's not a single place for them now.
14:31 there's also an accepted request to send a small pool to RedHat India.
14:32 yamaplos Icarito and friend Al went to La Paz, met with our folks there, both from OLE and independents, have quite a nretwork of support already. besides of course Icaritos' own established name in the comm
14:32 _sj_ icarito, how many xo's would you pool with kiko's requested 10?
14:32 we can follow up outside of this meeting.
14:33 yamaplos whenever we go to new business: 25 for Fez, Morocco, international school
14:33 _sj_ I think that's the last pool request out; we can move to open requests.
14:33 icarito i have 1 b4 and 1 c model with a broken screen that I regularly borrow
14:33 kikomayorga excelent  _sj_, we got instructions from adam to fill out "descriptions on the contributor program" it´s also of course beeing communicated to the public, so there will be interaction with interested people locally, and independently
14:33 _sj_ let's start with the largest ones. yama is requesting 80 for XO based teacher training
14:34 can you speak a bit about that?
14:34 yamaplos Sure!
14:34 _sj_ kiko: yes -- if you need help filling out the application, talk to adam or me immediately after
14:34 kikomayorga excelent!
14:34 yamaplos The big deal is to make things happen re: XO-based teacher training
14:34 befana hi, i was talking with Werner from educalibre, he has  a XO with a broken screen too. He needs to change it
14:35 yamaplos This appears like a new concept, and should - when if successful, - assure infinite scalability up or down
14:35 OT Werner and folks have been trying to get XOs since the world was new.  Bestest ever grassroot work
14:36 sj: I guess you'd like them to do an application through DB
14:36 _sj_ yama, what would be the result shared with others?
14:36 yamaplos the whole caboodle.
14:37 I mean, the concept is to interactively (teams of teachers + developers) develop these modules
14:37 icarito _sj_: a working deployment model (that would be new!)
14:37 yamaplos that then teachers would use.  Development would happen in continuous loops
14:37 _sj_ werner is doing good work, he can certainly get new XOs.  but yama, the communication gap with werner and folks is interesting
14:37 mchua yamaplos: I believe it was walterbender and carla who did XO-based teacher training in peru, they might be good to poke for ideas/materials/what-they-did/tips
14:37 yamaplos I know.  I call it cultural :-)
14:37 _sj_ who are the folks?  I've met with them a couple times and encouraged them to publish/write about projects
14:38 yamaplos carla never answered a single email from yours truly
14:38 _sj_ yama, you say 6 months for the whole project
14:38 icarito i'm sorry to say i've heard complaints from teachers reg'd carla's approach here
14:38 _sj_ ?
14:38 dsd_ yamaplos: i think every country does XO teacher training.. this is nothing new
14:38 icarito no depth at all in the training, done in waterfall model, like the game of telephone
14:38 yamaplos 6 mo thereabouts, yes
14:39 icarito and worse of all no community and no feedback
14:39 the feedback i got was from the UGEL people in Puno
14:39 yamaplos +1  They do it with an expert in front of a room, using centuries old wineskins for new wine.  It's not working, and u know it.  We need to try something that is XO based
14:39 icarito this is why they are interested in deploying independently from central ministry
14:40 "la paz is much closer than lima"
14:40 _sj_ recent requests:http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Cont[…]ebruary_6%2C_2009
14:40 yamaplos See? already an international wider-base for working the project together
14:40 _sj_ we'll just touch on the larger ones
14:40 dirakx hi all.
14:41 cjl yamaplos: Are you envisioning using something like waltte3rbender's TAPortfiolio as an XO-based content development/presentation tool?
14:41 _sj_ yama: we need more detail on your project (and any project that needs more than a few XOs to get started)
14:41 yamaplos I will need to become more familiar with that
14:41 _sj_ is there a longer project description online somewhere?
14:41 CanoeBerry Reminder, add your nickname here is poss: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Cont[…]ebruary_6%2C_2009
14:41 yamaplos I was blown over on the already built in capacity of XOs to play OGV
14:42 yeah, in the support list emails as per Ed's request
14:42 somehow my description from the DB did not port to the wiki
14:43 the details are strictly following your frame, SJ, sent at 1:14 pm today to the support list
14:43 I'll get them in the wiki, if you want that, no prob
14:45 _sj_ thanks yama, I haven't seen mail sent just now to support
14:45 icarito i would like to propose that this contributors program has clear goals and criteria
14:45 kikomayorga right,,
14:45 icarito its difficult to understand who are we contributing to
14:45 _sj_ icarito, you may have been away during the past two discussions about project criteria
14:46 agreed.  we should have guidelines posted at [[contributors]]
14:46 for what makes a good / featured / promoted project
14:46 yamaplos uh, this subject about criteria was in today's agenda?
14:46 icarito i've had little interest in this program honestly until i heared you're killing everything else
14:46 _sj_ and how people can weigh in on new proposals, to rate them up / encourgae them for fast support
14:46 icarito so tis a channel of communication
14:46 kikomayorga ok!
14:47 _sj_ we have a certain amount of hardware we can use to support interesting work, and the definition of 'interesting'
14:47 kikomayorga i think thats for all of us a contribution
14:47 _sj_ should be guided largely by the community
14:47 yamaplos OK, bottom line, do you need anything else about this project?
14:47 _sj_ yama : I'll read your email, thanks.
14:48 icarito its unclear to me how this should work, no vendor offers this, and it seems to me the only reason to do it is because you're not selling them in the first place
14:48 kikomayorga (community supported proposals, (digg like?))
14:48 _sj_ primarily : can you get started with less?  we're unlikely to give so many laptops to a single new project.  can you borrow laptops from a local pool for some of this work, or use emulation?
14:49 kiko: yes, or by consensus about whether projects meet a set of criteria (so, passing a threshold, not being 'most voted for)
14:49 kikomayorga yeah,, lending hubs?
14:49 _sj_ cf: the featured images process on wikipedia
14:49 dirakx _sj_: what are the diffrences between this new contributor program and the last dev program ?
14:49 _sj_ kiko: yes, and focusing on how to support projects with temporary loans rather than long-term gifts
14:49 yamaplos emulation would miss the whole concept, and yes, we can do it with less (we're Bolivians, used to shoestring everything) but to assure a reasonable level of success, 80 is a decent number
14:49 _sj_ dirakx: this is the developers program, but it's been expanded
14:49 to include people not doing software work
14:50 kikomayorga exactly
14:50 _sj_ there is not a separtae developers progrma; the application process for both is being made transparent
14:50 dirakx _sj_: the dev program was primarily to people doing hardware work..
14:50 _sj_ so that projects are posted and discussed poublicly, and only the details about shipping are handled privately
14:50 icarito _sj_: "expanded" it has been for a while, without a clear definition of what that means, it seems to me its "exploding"
14:50 _sj_ dirakx: more software developers in the end, actually.
14:50 dirakx _sj_:hmm ok
14:50 _sj_ dirakx: but originally, largely hardware and firmware, yes
14:50 (when you were here :)
14:51 dirakx :)
14:51 _sj_ yama, ok.  a good point for discussion as we review the criteria for accepting projects.
14:51 yamaplos sure, so what's next?
14:51 dirakx so are we wanting to give this program proper goals in light of what OLPC needs more now.. ?
14:51 kikomayorga how should we understand the dimensions of the lending hubs you need?
14:51 _sj_ from the agendea:
14:51 yamaplos I mean, ton get this approved / nixed / reset
14:52 ?
14:52 _sj_ a pilot in israel has an open rquest for a b2 upgrade.
14:52 they've already strated a project with their b2s, and we need an update about whether this is useful...
14:52 yamaplos BTW, here it is, I'll prettify l8r http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Projects/XObased_TT
14:52 uh, did we have closure on the OLE Bolivia project?
14:52 _sj_ the project wasn't going to use much of sugar or hardware aspects of the XOs...
14:52 dirakx _sj_: i really like israel project for me it would be nice to give them new hardware.
14:53 yamaplos hello??
14:53 cjl _sj_: from guysoft, I get the impression that only having B2's is driving them to consider non-sugar installs.
14:53 _sj_ yama, I'll have to go through your request point by point, but basically
14:53 yamaplos Am I the only one who notices the previous item is not closed?
14:53 _sj_ my personal opinion is that it needs more detail in every point
14:53 yamaplos you kidding!
14:53 _sj_ "help from outside orgs" means an org other than the one requesting machines.
14:54 the local team should be able to list specific members.
14:54 kikomayorga ok....
14:54 yamaplos OK, can you point me to a project that fulfills all your requirements, humbly, pretty pretty please?
14:54 icarito _sj_:  ok fuentelibre, sociedad cientifica univ sn andres, apusol/puno, etc
14:54 yamaplos That's friends!
14:54 icarito no, that's organizations
14:54 yamaplos sj: ?
14:54 _sj_ a specific set of materials or proposals for what teachres would do over the course of 6 months would be a good start.
14:55 yamaplos You won't get out this easy, SJ, please, show us what is a _good_ proposal
14:55 _sj_ sure, I'll send some examples
14:55 icarito you sent 40 to USMP here in peru
14:55 yamaplos we're waiting
14:55 _sj_ we've had a longstanding mesh testing relationship with a university and research team in brazil
14:55 icarito no feedback, no return
14:55 _sj_ one of the few groups that got literally dozens of laptops for testing
14:55 yamaplos where's their proposal?
14:55 icarito they have them testing Windows for gee's sake
14:56 _sj_ they had a phd student doing his work with the machines, a professor dedicated to them, and lots of previous experience working with the community
14:56 to gfind  out what needed doing and where precisely they could help.
14:56 icarito that is bs
14:56 yamaplos NICE!  now, where's the proposal?
14:56 _sj_ they had also done preliminary work along these lines with published results with a few XOs.
14:56 icarito that is the ministry's private university
14:56 show me the code
14:56 kikomayorga (soorry, ned to go for lunch!) i follow up offline, great to meet you all
14:56 dirakx icarito: yamaplos take it easy. ;)
14:57 icarito dirakx: take it seriously
14:57 _sj_: we have had NO feedback from USMP
14:57 _sj_ I'll find one for you that's been posted to the wiki.
14:57 dirakx patience
14:58 yamaplos sj: I dare suspect your lordship is not very consistent in his laws.  Apparently there's what he does, and then what he asks.
14:58 _sj_ adam, can you mention a couple of the others on the agenda while I do?
14:58 ?
14:58 icarito and only reports by a student they're testing XP on it
14:58 _sj_ yama, being testy won't help you :)
14:59 yamaplos SJ, being reasonable hasn't helped yet either.
14:59 _sj_ and the decision about what projects have priority is a shared one, in which you are an equal contributor.
14:59 but you're not a very good advocate for your own cause when your only request is for a project larger than any project we've ever accepted, with almost no preparation.
14:59 sorry.
14:59 we have to get through the other posted items, and will.
15:00 CanoeBerry bjordan: do you have an opinion on the Ethiopia 20-laptop center?
15:00 yamaplos if your guidelines were clearer, we would be understanding each other better.  don't blame ME!  ;-)
15:00 cjl _sj_: Has there been any progress on creating an infrastructure for sharing information of Contributor's Program requests and their outcomes?
15:00 icarito goes to lunch, will follow up on email
15:00 kikomayorga _sj_,, how many machines o projects do you plan tu support? i mean real projects, beeing documented, followed ansd so on?
15:00 in poeru?
15:00 yamaplos or anyehere?
15:00 CanoeBerry SJ wrote about Ethipia: "not very specific, though a promising topic.  start smaller?  needs feedback.
15:00 "
15:01 cjl CanoeBerry: Wher eare you reading this?
15:01 kikomayorga we can see how to scale up, or promote.. locally
15:01 CanoeBerry SJ gone for a min..
15:01 We're reading the request within projectdb.olpc.at
15:01 yamaplos How do you get there?
15:01 cjl And that is at present a completely closed system.
15:02 CanoeBerry That's why we're getting rid of it :)
15:02 yamaplos meanwhile...
15:02 CanoeBerry ProjectDB data will be moving to RT
15:02 cjl Unsrestandable th asome aspects need to be keot confidential, but no visibility mechanism to replace it wit hjsut yet.
15:02 CanoeBerry SJ back in ~2min..
15:02 cjl CanoeBerry: And who is to get access t othe ContribProg RT queue?
15:02 dirakx yamaplos: let us remember that OLPC is the only foundation AFAIk that has helping done this projects and donates hardware to them..so let's be patient.
15:02 CanoeBerry bjordan's reading the Ethiopean proposal..
15:03 yamaplos Now, a moment ago SJ asked if I had my stuff in a wiki page.  is that a Yama Requisite, or across the board?
15:03 OK dirakx, sorry, lowering my flag
15:03 kikomayorga but we need an idea of scale,, first... idont doubt we can make a list of contributors,, up to a larger size... just, what are we pointing at?
15:03 cjl yamaplos: deep cleansing breaths
15:03 dsd_ what ethiopian proposal?
15:03 yamaplos :-)
15:04 CanoeBerry In future, ppl will email contributors@laptop.org, likely from a snazzy WebUI that cleans up the form currently at ProjectDB.
15:04 dsd_ hopefully to look over the 20-laptop proposal too..
15:05 dsd_ where can i look?
15:05 is it related to the govt project in ethiopia? i guess not..
15:06 _sj_ back
15:07 CanoeBerry cjl: i hope all SG get vayring degrees of access to the new "contributors" queue
15:07 befana hi, i have a question, ,if we send a project, maybe for training teachers, and i't sucesfully, it's possible to scale it?
15:07 _sj_ a good proposal from hilaire: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Cont[…]m/June_27%2C_2008
15:07 befana there'll be some way to negociate with OLPC for less than 1000 laptops after the proyect?
15:07 yamaplos I motion that all project have to be put in public display (wiki) to be considered
15:08 cjl yamaplos: As much as the points you make about not having a process to follow and not having well-publicized criteria are true,  you hopefully accept that the immediate goal of today (and realistically the next few meetings) should be to gain some clarity on what they are generally so that all proposals can compete on a fair playing ground.
15:08 _sj_ this time next week, new projects proposals will all be on the wiki, and we can start discussing them there...
15:08 dirakx i would like to see the outcome of isoa in the classrooms.
15:08 yamaplos so all can know what we talking about
15:08 cjl: I am ALL for that, exactly.  Level playing field,I'am totally in agreement
15:08 dirakx the followup is crucial here..
15:10 mchua I'm having trouble following what concrete steps have been proposed to move this forward in the next week, and by whom and by when.
15:10 _sj_ If you want to suggest criteria for what makes a great project, please do so.
15:10 I started a page here : http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Cont[…]_program_criteria
15:10 yamaplos I mean, that's my proposals in a nutshel: clear requisites, transparency, precisely so all can have a reasonable chance to make their case and that all decision-makers and community know what is going on
15:10 mchua Would it be useful to have people list the action items they've committed to on the meeting wiki page, or somewhere else, so we have some way of tracking who's taken what responsibility, so people can follow up?
15:11 _sj_ we'll need to update the submission form text to tell people their proposals will be put there...
15:11 _bjordan ...and email the submitters of the current projects saying we'll put their proposals there or they won't be considered
15:11 s/projects/submissions
15:12 dirakx hey..we should do one thing in order to get transparency..can we get the SG to vote at least the most involved people ?
15:12 _sj_ kiko : a point person might be enough for a small project
15:12 dirakx so the proposals in the wiki get voted and decided there. ?
15:12 CanoeBerry In partic, bjordan speaks of posting the 16 projects under consideration...
15:13 _sj_ the CP is currently designed for projects requiring a few laptops.
15:13 anything requiring more than 10 gets special attention, requests for feedback, discussion at these regular meetings, &c.
15:13 befana : it's definitely possible to scale projects; that's preferred to starting from scratch
15:13 dirakx _sj_: do we have a limit of laptops that can be delivered that way ?
15:14 yamaplos dirakx: +1
15:15 dirakx i have the opinion that in SG are the ''core'' contributors and developers ..
15:15 _sj_ let's continue this discussion of the criteria to the wiki
15:15 since all of that needs defining.
15:16 CanoeBerry How many more projects can we review before ending this mtg?
15:16 _sj_ mchua: bjordan and holt and I are updating the CP submission form to allow poublic posting
15:16 and posting the 16 projects currently under consideration
15:16 yamaplos What happened to the 25 for Fez, Morocco?
15:17 _sj_ I'd like to review the AASDO request
15:17 and the 25 for Fez
15:17 CanoeBerry Brian concurs w/ SJ on AASDO
15:17 Ethipia needs more review..
15:18 yamaplos what is AASDO?
15:19 CanoeBerry bjordan & sj concur AASDO multimedia telecenter needs smaller test 1st
15:19 (Ethiopia..)
15:19 yamaplos URL?
15:20 mchua _sj_: ok - that's the kind of todo I was suggesting be posted - just added it to http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Cont[…]2009#Action_items, if you'd like them listed there.
15:20 yamaplos Neat!  Thankee
15:20 _sj_ AASDO is a project to build telecenters for media development
15:20 and OCW courseware sharing
15:20 (posted to the agenda page)
15:21 not clear they know how they would use XOs in their telecenter, or what the results would be.
15:21 CanoeBerry I will contact the 16 groups asking if they need help web-posting their proposals, which they will need to do in order to be considered.
15:21 _sj_ might be interesting if it was able to develop an active relationship with ethiopian deployments.
15:21 CanoeBerry But we can still continue with our regular review..
15:22 FEZ?
15:22 yamaplos: want to introduce the topic?
15:23 yamaplos sure.  It's this couple here in Austin that started a school in Fez
15:23 CanoeBerry 25 laptops, they want for 10 months.
15:23 yamaplos It's a multilingual school, they work English and French besides Arab
15:24 I gave them general idea on what's what (AFAIKnew...:-()
15:24 Wahat I see as the most interesting thing is the multiculturality of the thing, see kids working in English (and even French with a simple Language change - reboot)
15:25 I can assure a certain level of follow up in getting them to report back, since I have known these people for quite a while
15:25 By now the school is being run by locals, these Austinites (private entrepreneurs, my perception is that they have their own income) are on an advisory role
15:26 as a sideline, 6 years ago I was offered to go teach there...
15:26 questions?
15:27 CanoeBerry SJ's wiki reaction :\"needs detail.  How would results be shared?
15:27 "
15:27 yamaplos We'll need to define across the board how we expect results to be shared, yes
15:28 I am a bit obsessive about expecting everybody to share results, one of my pet peeves on the CP as is extant
15:28 CanoeBerry What else should I ask them to fill out in their proposal when I ask them to web-psot it?
15:28 _sj_ they seem interested to follow up, that's certain.
15:28 there aren't other communities in morocco yet, so this wouldn't currently be part of a local pool...
15:28 basic details updated at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Cont[…]09#Open_proposals
15:29 yamaplos It might be interesting to encouyrage rthem to open up their trial to have other people come see.  AFAIK, they have a rather open attitude, plenty of government officials in the International school, as youy may imagine
15:30 CanoeBerry great, i may call them
15:30 _sj_ we need a general way to close the loop with requestors who haven'treally worked witn xos before.
15:31 sending them one to get started sometimes helps.
15:31 yamaplos That's where the Xo-based teacher training comes in :-) plug
15:31 _sj_ I was sad to discover that the peres center never used the 30 B2s that they got for a project a long time ago.
15:31 yamaplos Sure, a scalability model is always a good idea.  I can provide them one of my own until this gets rolling
15:31 dirakx that 30 could have being used to repair centers.
15:32 s/to/for
15:32 _sj_ we might start with 1 for mh. to find out more about what he has in mind, and see what multilingual work might be needed
15:32 there's some technical work needed in localization and with arabic-support testing;
15:32 not sure if that's of interst to them or would impact their use.
15:32 if they're not interested in that, I wonder if this would be so helpful to others.
15:33 yamaplos My understanding is that they'd be glad to use it for Arabic, but this might get used first for English/French
15:33 _sj_ good for discussion on-wiki.
15:33 yamaplos also, Arabic Kbd?
15:33 CanoeBerry I'm going to move these 16 projects into RT's 'help@laptop.org' queue in the interim.
15:33 _sj_ we might be able to get them arabic keybds if they were taking part in arabic testing
15:33 there rae a limited # of those
15:34 last proposal to consider:  the Bolivia Project
15:34 yamaplos I'd say that's not their highest interest, would it be yours that they work Arabic mostly?
15:34 OK doc, now I know what that is
15:35 may I?  Theres' this Canadian private donor who funds huge projects in Bolivia, he tends to want to be rather discrete about his work
15:35 I've been talking with him re: 3.000 units
15:35 _sj_ I'm not sure re: whether the arabic work is most interesting.
15:36 if they aren't thinking of being a class of testers, with the ability to install and try new builds of os and activities, it's likely not that important
15:36 yamaplos But he'd like to do a smallish test with his people first.  he's got all our (OLE- Bolivia) support, but right now our units are tied up, and until SCELinux comes in with repaired from the mangled pile, we're stuck
15:36 _sj_ SCELinux?
15:36 yamaplos Schoolyear begins this next week
15:37 SCELinux is the Repair Center guys, Bolixo
15:37 Nice kids, trying desperately to get them an internet connection you wouldn't believe how hard it is
15:38 _sj_ yama, go on - I'm having trouble following
15:38 [note: this is not the Bolivia Project I was mentioning, which is a proposal that has come in and is on the agenda... once Yama is done :) ]
15:38 yamaplos sorry.
15:38 dirakx can confirm what yama is aying
15:38 saying
15:39 yamaplos OLE Bolivia=80  OLPC Leigh=10
15:39 sj: dunno which one or is there another?
15:39 _sj_ Leigh
15:40 perhaps it is what you're talking about :)
15:40 go on.  there's this private donor...
15:40 he wnats to do a small test.
15:40 yamaplos sure, that's the Canadian guy I was just talking about
15:40 _sj_ this is the 100 XO test?
15:40 CanoeBerry The 10 XO app over 12 months.
15:40 yamaplos nope, 10 units.  To eventually do 3.000
15:40 ÿCanoeBerry: yop
15:40 _sj_ they say they have 100 units lined up
15:41 CanoeBerry Confusing yes.
15:41 _sj_ where are those coming from?
15:41 yamaplos ASAIK they want 10 to test via Contributors, 100 to pilot, 3.000 at full steam
15:41 CanoeBerry OK
15:42 yamaplos He asked that I lend him my personal ones to leave in the villages, I'm afraid cannot do
15:42 CanoeBerry How much time does he want to put in this, as a prof doctor?
15:43 yamaplos I was hoping the Repair Center would have some, but connectivity is stopping us from working on repairs, the wiki is in English, they do not understand English, I would help if I could connect with them...
15:43 He's personally going down there for 2 weeks right now
15:43 CanoeBerry OK
15:43 yamaplos But he has a massive organization, with 1/2 mill donations per year or more
15:44 Originally they tried to buy these as G1G1, but the program closed before they did it
15:44 CanoeBerry SJ's away.  We need to wrap up very soon, as we are the only ppl in the office not cleaning up.
15:44 yamaplos $1/2 mill
15:44 OK, say yes to all and we'll all love you
15:45 CanoeBerry Office-wide cleanup, need to run ASAP...
15:45 yamaplos so....
15:45 _sj_ ok, thanks
15:46 I'd like to know where the 100 machines are coming from
15:46 and how we can help make the described proposal more concrete.
15:46 yamaplos They're buying them, if you let them :-)
15:46 _sj_ we have a lot of "get interest" proposals for using hardware that ends up disappearing into the void
15:46 not for lack of good faith
15:46 but b/c people get busy.
15:46 yamaplos Won't happen in my watch, SJ
15:47 _sj_ so, setting the balance properly at the start helps a lot.
15:47 yama, I need you to help me write criteria and guidelines for others to follow
15:47 since you can't watch everyone :0
15:47 :)
15:47 yamaplos I will help
15:47 _sj_ I strongly encourage adding to http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Cont[…]_program_criteria
15:47 yamaplos I need you to help us too... ;-)
15:47 I already did, in the talk page for now
15:47 _sj_ and helping reorgainze the CP page directly (for those here)
15:48 yamaplos OK, what do we tell Leigh?
15:49 These guys would purchase the 10, if given the chance
15:49 I'd make you a check right now, knowing they would reimburse me
15:49 dsd_ i dont think money is the issue
15:49 the contributors prg exists for things like this
15:50 and its probably easier for OLPC to give for free
15:50 _sj_ can we ask them to publish their ideas for the future?
15:50 cjl I'd like to float something personal for comment.  I am considering making a one XO request. You may (or may not) know that I've taken an interest in and made some effort to contribute to I18n/L10n in various ways.
15:50 I have my G1G1, but my interest is in QA of completeness of I18n/L10n where having two side-by-side would be quite an advantage.
15:50 _sj_ if this whole process, including engaging the teachers, who the communities are, &c is not private
15:50 yamaplos Sure, if everyone is asked the same thing.  SOmeone said level field...
15:50 cjl I've made attempts to accomplish this with SoaS standing in for the second XO, but the divergence of the Sugar streams (and current challenges with adding additional Activities to SoaS) makes this less than ideal.
15:50 Is it your impression that such a request (when made through projectdb channels) would be viewed favorably?
15:50 _sj_ and ppl are not shy about their intent to do a larger project in the future, it would be more convincing.
15:50 cjl Deliverables would be Trac tickets pointing out requested improvements in I18n on the developer side and requests for focused translation of specific strings on the L10n side.
15:51 _sj_ I don't see how they expect to move to their larger project
15:51 yamaplos move over, SJ.  I second cjl
15:51 _sj_ and the communities in question do not obviously have anyone local to support them
15:51 CanoeBerry cjl: yes
15:51 cjl yamaplos: not looking for a second, jsut testing water
15:51 yamaplos sj, are you doing this on purpose, or does it simply come natural?
15:52 _sj_ cjl: definitely
15:52 cjl wil lwork to write up[ according to newly publsihed criteria . . .
15:52 _sj_ yama: we've never yet had a successful return on machines given for local awareness raising :)
15:52 you and dirak vouch for this fellow, so that's good, and I like the goal of the proposal
15:53 yamaplos That's not MY fault, if ever there was one thing you could blame on me, OLPC give-aways is not one
15:53 I've gone on record critisizing them, since the famousn 100 Australian
15:53 CanoeBerry All the Criteria of what make a good project need to be expanded & tightened up.. plz add here: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Cont[…]_program_criteria
15:54 yamaplos But I support you wholeheartedly in tracking down and repo all stuff that never made it back
15:54 _sj_ so, I'd accept and ask for them to set up a public page for sharing their materials (From the education team mentioned, for the deployment proposal they say they have in place, updates about the towns)
15:54 yama: you say they are famously private about their work; if you can work with them to overcome this that would be great.
15:54 yamaplos For that we'll need full disclosure of where that stuff was given , to whom, etc.
15:55 They are private in the sense they don't crow about their achievements.  They donate without waiting for a photo op
15:55 _sj_ it's not about repo.  it's about setting good standards for others to follow.
15:55 yamaplos besides that, we have agreed to work together in technical, deploy, teacher training, ertc.
15:55 I actually do HOPE they will fund some of my work eventually :-)
15:56 _sj_ great.
15:56 is there any new business?
15:56 yamaplos OK, what was approved / denied / sent back???
15:56 dirakx i have to proposed something for Sugarlabs co but that would be for our next meeting.
15:57 yamaplos sj: re:repo, some accountability IS necessary, not only going forward but also looking back
15:57 _sj_ can we agree on : declining Knee Replacement
15:57 yamaplos but there's priorities, like setting up procedures for the future
15:57 agreed
15:57 _sj_ but asking if it would be useful for them to have 1 for development
15:57 yamaplos sure
15:58 _sj_ aasdo : asking how they would use XOs -- sounds like they need one to work with first
15:58 and putting them in touch with an ethiopian XO group
15:58 yamaplos ceratinly that linkage is vital.  support one
15:58 mchua I'd like to request that people post whatever actions they're committing to for the next week with regards to the contributors program here, http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Cont[…]2009#Action_items, so we have something to check in on next week to find out about our moving-forward progress.
15:58 _sj_ starting a conversation with the am. school of Fez about whether they'd want to do some sort of testing / work with local developers (content or code)
15:59 yamaplos I guess that's a bit above their heads, I believe they want to work content
15:59 can they have 3?
15:59 _sj_ they didn't mention that
16:00 CanoeBerry yamaplos: I will review http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Cont[…]_program_criteria with Ed so that he can help fine tune, eg. if ~100 laptop proposals are too high, as he has indicated, etc.
16:00 yamaplos they mentioned internet and etc, see the proposal you uploaded yourself
16:01 _sj_ yes, that's not developing content :)
16:01 yamaplos training our teachers to use them first for a period of two months. Then we would like to do a project with our multi-lingual 5th grade students in which we teach them to harvest information off the internet and us this information for a world cultures fair or other appropriate presentation.
16:01 _sj_ having kids find materials online for a cultural presentation may be interesting though.
16:01 I wouldn't approve anything for that proposal atm but start a conversation
16:02 yamaplos OK, u the boss.  I'll ask to be in the loop
16:02 _sj_ right.  would that fair or presentation be useful to other schools?
16:02 who would benefit from it?
16:02 yamaplos we can ask
16:02 _sj_ are there other local groups that might build on the work they are doing?  I just don't see how this helps the larger XO community.
16:02 yamaplos it's the multicultural thing
16:03 _sj_ I'm just stating my opinion here.
16:03 we need a simple way for anyone to weigh in on the project page.
16:03 yamaplos I know of no trial or test working that line
16:03 sure
16:03 _sj_ I don't want mine to weigh more heavily than others -- but most people engaging in the conversation right now
16:03 have a personal vested interest in seeing one project or another succeed.
16:03 mchua puts herself down for checking in on the public usage interface for the boston-area loaner pool and reporting back (as she is hoping to run Sugar test sprints with the CFS kids late this month / early next)
16:03 _sj_ which isn't quite what I'd like to see the CP becom
16:03 e*
16:03 I want it to be a resource for projects *that help the global community of XO users*
16:04 so even if you're going to do something amazing for 50 students
16:04 yamaplos OTOH, a solid system of partnerships does make sense
16:04 avoids the "ÿwe've never yet had a successful return on machines given for local awareness raising"
16:05 _sj_ it's not always the best use of this particular pool of machines.  we have to prioritize the diff projects that come up.  (there's nothing /wrong/ with the XOs for Knee Replacement Healing Devices proposal... it just won't help anyont but a very very small community)
16:05 yamaplos These guys have a solid-er accoutabily, genre microloans, than anyone else we've considered, except of course Leigh, who is in my burough
16:05 _sj_ leigh : accept pending having a place for them to share details of their work; make sure they are comfortable with that
16:06 yamaplos u right, more return for machines to the MH than to the Knee...
16:06 CanoeBerry Great, can we wrap up for now, it being 4pm?  Continuing Sunday 4pm and other places.
16:06 _sj_ xott : wait for more information; see if a smaller project will work; can it get started now?
16:06 I think that's all we discussed.
16:06 mchua is just waiting to #endmeeting
16:06 yamaplos let's
16:06 _sj_ I'll just mention on the new business front
16:06 Caryl Bigenho wanted to be here
16:07 to talk about how to help support small school pilots, whether there's an overlap with CP projects
16:07 and I'll note that we do regularly have people wanting to do small school projects submit a CP app.
16:08 dirakx what is the lowest request of mchines there ?
16:08 _sj_ we've not accepted them to date -- usually they don't offer anything that other school,s can build on, and are very much focused on working with one specific school, doing assessments or reviews over time.
16:08 yamaplos so two machines taken care of this meeting?  One Knee, one AASDO?
16:08 _sj_ typically 15-30 machine requests.
16:08 dirakx ok
16:08 _sj_ I wonder if there's a way to define a process for getting 1 or 2 xo's for development while running/planning a small project
16:08 when teachers are making new materials
16:09 or developping thigns for sugar as part of their effrort.  this is open for public discussion.
16:09 CanoeBerry And finally, to those not part of http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Support_Gang please apply (just 1 quick phone call) if you want to help us review full proposals and beyond.
16:09 yamaplos if trained the OLE Bolivia way, sure
16:09 good to see y'all.  Over / out
16:10 _sj_ yama : and leigh, and many of the smaller projects
16:10 CanoeBerry Bye!
16:10 mchua #endmeeting

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