| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 18:01 | mchua_ | Ha, there we go. |
| 18:02 | I'm not sure if anyone else is around for- oh! | |
| 18:02 | hi, garycmartin and marcopg! | |
| 18:02 | marcopg | hello mchua_ garycmartin! |
| 18:02 | garycmartin | mchua_: evening mel! |
| 18:03 | mchua_ | realizes her client may have not reconnected when she got to 1cc. that would explain a lot. |
| 18:03 | garycmartin | Hi Marco! |
| 18:03 | marcopg | will only follow tonight, his head is hurting too much to be useful! |
| 18:03 | mchua_ | There's not much to go through tonight. http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Comm[…]etings/2009-01-15 |
| 18:03 | garycmartin, haven't seen you for a while. welcome back. :) | |
| 18:03 | any additions? else we can make this superfast and be out of here in 10min or so. ;) | |
| 18:03 | and I'll get back to 8.2.1 testin'. | |
| 18:04 | # 2 Testing requests | |
| 18:04 | # 3 Upstream testing | |
| 18:04 | # 4 8.2.1 test results | |
| 18:04 | holler with additions and we'll queue them up at the end. :) | |
| 18:04 | in the meantime, launching into testing requests... | |
| 18:05 | we've got some activity testing requests for socialcalc, foodforce, and gnubook. | |
| 18:05 | should we be pushing these upstream to the (brand-spankin'-new) SL Activity group? | |
| 18:06 | garycmartin | * holds his SL Activity group hand up :-) |
| 18:06 | mchua_ | votes yes, looks around |
| 18:06 | marcopg | mchua_: is activity team going to do testing? |
| 18:06 | mchua_ | worships garycmartin |
| 18:06 | marcopg: Well, if they're taking responsibility for Activities, I hope so. :) | |
| 18:06 | garycmartin | :-) |
| 18:07 | marcopg | mchua_: yeah was thinking of a development/testing separation, but perhaps for activities they can be coped |
| 18:07 | garycmartin | I need to make a nice new icon for socialcalc. |
| 18:07 | mchua_ | so we'll take that as a yes, I suppose, and - garycmartin, I don't know a whole lot about what the Activity team is up to, but would you mind making sure the migration of Activity testing to the SLAT (...huh, acronyms!) goes over all right? |
| 18:08 | mm, icons. | |
| 18:08 | garycmartin | Activity developers should be activity testers... In my world at least, even if it's only oassionally. |
| 18:08 | mchua_ | nods |
| 18:08 | marcopg, I guess the thing we'd have to figure out is what the infrastructure for Activities will be at SL, so we can smoosh all the current docs and test results/cases that-a-way. | |
| 18:09 | marcopg | mchua_: can we just start from a plain dlo -> SL move? |
| 18:09 | wlo | |
| 18:09 | mchua_ | marcopg: yup. |
| 18:09 | marcopg | looks at wikiteam lead david :) |
| 18:10 | mchua_ | More complicated things are a bernie question, I think, and if garycmartin can make sure the QA angle gets brought up when the Activity team starts talking, then I'm happy and we can transfer the data over when we have a place to dump it. |
| 18:10 | marcopg | he has bots that can do the move |
| 18:10 | we will have to make sure we have all the trac plugins we need I guess | |
| 18:10 | mchua_ | anything else? we can start telling activity authors to look at the Activities list... |
| 18:11 | garycmartin | Activities list? |
| 18:11 | marcopg | sounds good to me |
| 18:11 | mchua_ | er, Activities team. |
| 18:12 | garycmartin | I think the team is going to start go foraging for devs... best way really. |
| 18:12 | mchua_ | yay! |
| 18:12 | marcopg | :) |
| 18:12 | garycmartin: (off topic, but you are doing awesome things there!) | |
| 18:12 | mchua_ | anything else on activity testing? I'll email the 3 testing requestors individually and let them know what's going on (I want to actually get each QA group to focus on testing what they should be testing, too.) |
| 18:12 | marcopg +1; garycmartin is awesome. | |
| 18:13 | hullo tabitha! | |
| 18:13 | marcopg | hi tabitha |
| 18:13 | tabitha | Hello |
| 18:13 | sorry I am late | |
| 18:13 | mchua_ | anyhoo, moving on... anything else on that topic? |
| 18:14 | no worries, tabitha. :) glad you're here. | |
| 18:14 | marcopg | that's all prolly, but I can't quite think right now :) |
| 18:15 | mchua_ | tabitha, we just agreed to move activity testing to sugarlabs now that they have an Activity team - but that doesn't change the stuff you and the welly testers are doing at the moment (when the infrastructure migrates, there'll be big announcements to the list.) |
| 18:15 | tabitha | cool |
| 18:15 | mchua_ | tabitha: though if you're looking for things to test tomorrow, these three projects requested a look at their Activities. http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Comm[…]#Testing_requests |
| 18:15 | moving on! | |
| 18:15 | upstream testing. http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Comm[…]#Upstream_testing | |
| 18:15 | short version: we now have it. | |
| 18:15 | tabitha | great - love being given direction on what to test |
| 18:16 | mchua_ | does anyone here have experience with Fedora QA? |
| 18:16 | garycmartin | mchua_: sorry, no, XO distro only here. |
| 18:16 | mchua_ | so basically, since OLPC's software dev efforts just became much smaller, OLPC's QA group's job has become much easier |
| 18:17 | ok, I guess that's something that I can rope Jeff, Colin, and Sandra into checking out then. :) | |
| 18:17 | marcopg | mchua_: no exp, other than fixing bugs in their tracker |
| 18:17 | mchua_ | they all expressed interest in learning about testing, and the Fedora QA group has more scaffolding to guide them, I think. |
| 18:17 | marcopg | weee less work to do ;) |
| 18:18 | mchua_ | So I'll rope those folks into finding out what's going on there and if there's anything we need to do downstream... |
| 18:18 | our other big upstream is Sugar Labs, and we already moved Activity testing up there... | |
| 18:18 | and... can finish worrying about testing Sugar itself after the feature freeze when we know what we'll be testing, so that's next week... | |
| 18:18 | marcopg | we will have start tracking Sugar on Fedora bugs at Fedora I guess |
| 18:19 | mchua_ | nods |
| 18:19 | marcopg | not sure how to communicate about that, people will keep using dev.laptop.org for a while I guess |
| 18:19 | mchua_ | so there are 3 big OLPC QA things to keep in mind |
| 18:19 | marcopg | maybe some announcement + answering d.l.o |
| 18:19 | listens | |
| 18:19 | mchua_ | 1) is communication with upstream, which is pretty minimal, and what we're just doing now, and once that's figured out as long as there's a line of communication we can use then everything should be fine - once things have settled so that we know who is doing what. |
| 18:20 | 2) is tests that require large-scale testbeds of many XOs, an XS, etc. | |
| 18:20 | that's something I have to keep talking with ed about to see if OLPC can give equipment to test groups to get 50 XO testbeds in, for instance, an engineering college near large deployments | |
| 18:20 | (engineering colleges having things like spectrum analyzers hanging around) | |
| 18:21 | garycmartin | mchua_: is Joe still at OLPC? |
| 18:21 | mchua_ | and 3) which I don't know a lot about yet is moving testing towards being done by deployments themselves, particularly for acceptance testing. |
| 18:21 | garycmartin: no, we have exactly 0 QA staff now | |
| 18:21 | garycmartin: (I'm also no longer at OLPC, technically.) | |
| 18:21 | marcopg | 3 sounds pretty cool when we can get that moving |
| 18:22 | might be bit complicated to setup perhaps | |
| 18:22 | mchua_ | so 3) is something I'd really like to talk with folks about at LCA, since tabitha and others have such a strong QA presence there *and* there's this awesome deployment stuff going on. |
| 18:22 | garycmartin | mchua_: Yea I knew about you (blogs et al) had been working with Joe on QC bulk XO testing scripts. |
| 18:22 | marcopg | sounds good |
| 18:22 | mchua_ | so I think you guys are probably our best bets to set up a model deployment in terms of "we do QA in a totally awesome local manner!" if that's the direction that we want to go in. |
| 18:22 | marcopg | is 1 something you are interested to go into detail here? |
| 18:23 | doesn't know anything about 2 :) | |
| 18:23 | mchua_ | marcopg: we covered that briefly, a bit, with "Fedora is going to be taken care of by these people who'll check into things, and SL will wait a week" - did you have any particular questions? |
| 18:24 | garycmartin: ah, cool - I didn't realize you were still working on that, is there anything we should be picking up on / playing with? ;) | |
| 18:24 | marcopg | mchua_: missed the week bit, make sense |
| 18:25 | garycmartin | mchua_: well, unless you have 50+ XOs you need to remotly manage and log data from, no... |
| 18:25 | mchua_ | garycmartin: Not yet, but I would love to have that problem. |
| 18:25 | garycmartin | mchua_: :-) |
| 18:25 | marcopg | hehe |
| 18:25 | mchua_ | It's called the "we have testbeds outside 1cc that are community-accessible!" problem. |
| 18:26 | garycmartin: good to know that's waiting in the wings for when we do have that problem, though. :) | |
| 18:26 | garycmartin | mchua_: The 3 I have here is not really enough for bulk stuff ;-) |
| 18:26 | mchua_ | that's a bit of vague and shaky overview of The New Direction Of OLPC QA (much smaller than it used to be) - things should get clearer in the weeks to come as we continue testing |
| 18:27 | any questions on what's going on? I think it'll be much more sorted out once we boot 8.2.1 out the door, honestly | |
| 18:27 | since that represents the last anomaly of "the old structure" that we have to clear out | |
| 18:27 | garycmartin | mchua_: I wonder if we can run 50+ virtual Sugar machines as a SW test bed.... Hmmm... |
| 18:27 | mchua_ | and then we can really turn our attention to getting local QA groups at deployments going |
| 18:28 | garycmartin: ooo, that would be sweet. I think the tricky thing is that a large part of the big testbeds will be networking. | |
| 18:28 | marcopg | garycmartin: people doing thin client stuff thought that was pretty easy/possible |
| 18:28 | but yeah doesn't really cover networking | |
| 18:28 | mchua_ | mesh in different environments, various configurations of APs and XSs, etc - *however* one thing that I haven't seen done yet is making simple networking simulations for that |
| 18:29 | so that we can have predictions/suggestions of what things will look like without whipping out 50 XOs. | |
| 18:29 | garycmartin | mchua_: well bandwidth could be throttled to simulate, but yea it's only one step on the road (but a good one if possible). |
| 18:29 | mchua_ | a great one, if possible. |
| 18:29 | marcopg | agreed that would be useful |
| 18:29 | mchua_ | is that something you're interested in looking into, garycmartin? I know you've got a lot on your plate right now. |
| 18:30 | I wonder if we can find some engineering undergrad or masters students taking a communications class that could do this as an assignment. | |
| 18:30 | but I'll leave that on the table in case someone wants to pick it up. | |
| 18:31 | garycmartin | mchua_: I can't emulate 1 Sugar OS here just now, so 50+ is a little hopefull!!! :-) |
| 18:31 | marcopg | hehe |
| 18:31 | mchua_ | the big thing on my plate right now is 8.2.1 testing, which I'm getting through tonight (now that I have 2 XOs of my own at home - minitestbed!) |
| 18:31 | marcopg | haven't seen brendan around lately, he was looking into it |
| 18:31 | will ask him about it, when he is around | |
| 18:32 | mchua_ | marcopg: sugar emulation? |
| 18:32 | marcopg | mchua_: yeah |
| 18:32 | brendan was at sugarcamp and we talked briefly about it | |
| 18:32 | mchua_ | Cool. |
| 18:33 | garycmartin | mchua_: regarding 8.2.1, the change list was hard to test, it's pretty much all deployment level stuff. Thats why I just did a full G1G1 Activity test run though. |
| 18:33 | marcopg | is there anything I can do to help with 8.2.1? |
| 18:33 | mchua_ | garycmartin: yeah, that's why I started realizing I might need to do most of the 8.2.1 testing, since we have the testbeds here and all. |
| 18:33 | thanks for doing Activity testing, though! | |
| 18:33 | marcopg | would reeeeally like to see it out of the door to get new sugar in the hands of the kids |
| 18:34 | mchua_ | garycmartin: marcopg: what would help a lot, since you folks are both developers, is to help take a look at the code changes that were made and come up with test cases i should run in areas of possible regression |
| 18:34 | tabitha_ | do you want us updating all XOs to 8.2.1 or should we keep any on 8.2-767 for continuing any of the g1g1 tests? |
| 18:35 | marcopg | mchua_: ok, cool |
| 18:35 | mchua_ | tabitha_: Hm - I don't think it should make a difference to Activity testing, so it's your call. I'd probably save the time and just stay on 8.2-767, unless someone in the group really wants to test NANDblaster or something. :) |
| 18:35 | marcopg | (will try to look into the sugar related ones) |
| 18:36 | garycmartin | mchua_: NANDblasting was fun. Worked well, but need to be aware of issues when making clones of an XO. |
| 18:37 | mchua_ | marcopg: thanks! I think that's just #9044 and #8745 so far (and they're both translations); the rest are lower-level. |
| 18:37 | garycmartin: the issues you wrote up in your wonderful email to the testing list? | |
| 18:37 | marcopg | aaah thanks for the numbers that's very useful ;) |
| 18:37 | mchua_ | I'm particularly in need of folks who can help spot potential areas of networking regression, so I can run them with the Big Testbeds here |
| 18:37 | marcopg | oh both translations! |
| 18:37 | so I can't be very useful, gah ;) | |
| 18:38 | garycmartin | mchua_: Kill list of files that should be removed after a clone. I didn't specifically email about this (other than posting some nandblaster stats to the list from my net environ) |
| 18:38 | mchua_ | marcopg: that's ok, you have plenty to do on sugar. :) get the activity folks up and running. |
| 18:38 | marcopg | mchua_: :) |
| 18:39 | mchua_ | garycmartin: do you have a list like that? |
| 18:39 | garycmartin | mchua_: no but I've seen partial lists bounced about in email threads. |
| 18:40 | mchua_ | welcome back again, tabitha_. :) |
| 18:40 | tabitha_ | flakey connection today - so sorry |
| 18:40 | mchua_ | no problem. |
| 18:40 | garycmartin | mchua_: Based on diffing the file structure before and after boot. |
| 18:40 | mchua_ | garycmartin, could you give me a pointer to where to find the threads? |
| 18:40 | er, those threads? | |
| 18:41 | (devel, testing, etc?) | |
| 18:41 | garycmartin | mchua_: Sure, I'll go look and email you after. |
| 18:41 | mchua_ | that's a good note to add to nandblaster stuff. |
| 18:41 | thanks! | |
| 18:41 | anything else? | |
| 18:41 | it's a small short meeting today, and there's... mostly, really, just a lot of work to be done | |
| 18:42 | dirakx | as allways :) |
| 18:42 | mchua_ | tabitha_ has the list of Activity testing requests at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Comm[…]#Testing_requests... |
| 18:42 | garycmartin | mchua_: nandblaster idealy is used for pushing a clean image (say of a USB key), but deployments are excited about customising a live XO and pushing it out to all... |
| 18:42 | tabitha_ | keeping an eye on xocamp - but if anyone wants to TELL us what to focus on in the coming weeks, we are happy to test whatever people want |
| 18:43 | mchua_ | I have 8.2.1 (hurrah for bpepple's email with useful links), and throwing more scouts at Fedora testing... |
| 18:43 | garycmartin is pulling in the email threads for NANDblaster, poking Activity testing up towards the appropriate SL team, and... | |
| 18:43 | ...I think that's it. | |
| 18:43 | tabitha_ | we will definitely keep testing food force, good to know gnubook and socialcalc on the list now |
| 18:43 | mchua_ | Anything else? |
| 18:43 | yay tabitha_, thanks! | |
| 18:44 | Oh - if anyone knows of any groups with access to network/wifi test/monitoring equipment who might want to handle a 50-XO testbed and can write up a plan on how they'll manage it / get community participation in it, try to get them to write up that proposal. :) | |
| 18:44 | so we'll have something to take to ed. | |
| 18:44 | otherwise, that's all I had. | |
| 18:45 | Other business, questions, or the like? | |
| 18:45 | garycmartin | Hmmm, 50-XOs, that would keep my flat nice and warm ;-) |
| 18:45 | mchua_ | Does anyone *not* have enough to do? ;) |
| 18:45 | marcopg | that sounds unlikely ;) |
| 18:45 | tabitha_ | we will take more XOs if they are available, but 50 is too much |
| 18:45 | we have about ten and could manage another ten easily | |
| 18:46 | mchua_ | aye, okay, so I guess 1cc stays as "The Big Testbed" for the time being, which is ok - until after we get 8.2.1 out the door. |
| 18:46 | okeydokey. | |
| 18:46 | garycmartin | mchua_: any one know what the mean deployment class size is? |
| 18:46 | mchua_ | garycmartin: well, officially, in the 10k-ish range, I think |
| 18:47 | garycmartin: that drops quite a bit if you count tiny deployments with g1g1 machines | |
| 18:47 | I don't know how much | |
| 18:47 | oh! class size, you asked. not deployment size. | |
| 18:47 | garycmartin | mchua_: 10k, wow that's a large class ;-b |
| 18:47 | marcopg | a bit busy :P |
| 18:48 | mchua_ | Hm, I don't know exact numbers; can ask reuben, but from what I remember the deviation's pretty wide |
| 18:48 | marcopg | garycmartin: why do you wonder about class size? |
| 18:49 | garycmartin | mchua_: no problem. I'm guessing most teachers would break a class into working groups any way. |
| 18:49 | mchua_ | garycmartin, I'll shoot reuben an email and cc the testing list, in case he has a quick answer. |
| 18:49 | tabitha_ | I have a question about gnubook - should there be a .xo file somewhere? |
| 18:49 | mchua_ | marcopg: I'd guess because that's the size of the testbed we'd want to test for |
| 18:50 | garycmartin | marcopg: Shared activity testing (and use cases), what good for teachers re: N kids working on a project together. |
| 18:50 | mchua_ | tabitha_: it's an ajax bookreader, so you open Browse and go to http://openlibrary.org/olpc/bookreader |
| 18:50 | marcopg | mchua_: ah ok, than I guess deviation is not that important, as long as testbed covers the worst case... |
| 18:50 | mchua_ | tabitha_: (it took me a moment to figure that one out) |
| 18:50 | marcopg: yep | |
| 18:50 | garycmartin, marcopg, tabitha_ : officially, we test at 50 | |
| 18:50 | as a max | |
| 18:50 | regardless of what size deployment classrooms are | |
| 18:50 | garycmartin | marcopg: Thinking about Labyrinth sharing use case, but same for activities we test that have sharing. |
| 18:50 | tabitha_ | we looked at this a while back and wondered why we are looking at browser books |
| 18:51 | marcopg | mchua_: which without having any clue about deployment seems pretty good |
| 18:51 | tabitha_ | just checking nothing has changed with gnubook test request |
| 18:51 | mchua_ | garycmartin, marcopg, tabitha_ : 10 in a simple mesh, 20 on an AP, 50 with an XS. |
| 18:51 | tabitha_: cool. :) | |
| 18:52 | garycmartin: not sure if that helps, since I know a lot of folks don't even have 10 XOs (the welly testers collectively being a happy exception.) | |
| 18:52 | marcopg | the XS will have more than one class connected though? |
| 18:52 | I guess that's what confused me about looking at class size... | |
| 18:52 | mchua_ | marcopg: there aren't really clear test cases for that bit yet, really |
| 18:52 | (which, yeah, is a problem) | |
| 18:52 | marcopg | well the software sucks anyway, so not much to test ;) |
| 18:53 | you have a bit of time to come up with that :P | |
| 18:53 | mchua_ | looks around to see if martin's here |
| 18:53 | marcopg | (hopefully better for 0.82) |
| 18:53 | 0.84 | |
| 18:53 | tabitha_ | just about to say, cant you ask martin what he looks at for XS load? |
| 18:54 | mchua_ | aye, tabitha_ - that's something I don't have the bandwidth to do right now, though |
| 18:54 | though if someone else would like to pick it up, that's great ;) | |
| 18:54 | tabitha_ | he does not appear to be online |
| 18:54 | mchua_ | generally speaking, if it's not 8.2.1 or moving stuff upstream, it's on my Defer To Later list (where later == think about again starting in Feb) |
| 18:55 | tabitha_ | February which year? |
| 18:55 | mchua_ | since those two should be more settled out by then, allowing us to do things like XS testing and looking at what to do with testbeds. |
| 18:55 | 2009... I hope. ;) | |
| 18:55 | marcopg | hehe |
| 18:55 | mchua_ | Certainly by 2020. |
| 18:55 | marcopg | sounds like something post Feb to me |
| 18:55 | garycmartin | mchua_: thanks, yea those numbers seem to make sense. It's more use case rather than technical max that's the sweet spot. Need to make sure that number gets plenty of testing (very sparse so far). |
| 18:55 | mchua_ | sweet. |
| 18:55 | marcopg | mchua_: don't overpromise ;) |
| 18:56 | mchua_ | marcopg: underdeliver and overpromise, was it? ;) |
| 18:56 | marcopg | hah |
| 18:56 | mchua_ | anyhoo, I have to run, there's a lot of 8.2.1 testing and trying to book plane tickets for me tonight... |
| 18:56 | garycmartin | mchua_: by 2020 I hope well be developing on you open source HW platform ;-) |
| 18:56 | mchua_ | anything else you folks need / want from me besides 8.2.1 test results and minutes and action items from this meeting? ;) |
| 18:56 | marcopg | would like to fly to nz instead of europe! |
| 18:56 | tabitha_ | thanks for another great meeting Mel |
| 18:57 | All welcome in NZ | |
| 18:57 | marcopg | tabitha_: aaah, will be coming soon then ;) |
| 18:57 | mchua_ | garycmartin: oh, if I get my PhD in what I think I'm going to, and you find yourself interested in hearing aids, that might be a possibility. ;) |
| 18:57 | marcopg | martin made me want to go |
| 18:57 | mchua_ | all righty, so that's a wrap in 8... |
| 18:57 | ...5.... | |
| 18:57 | ...3... | |
| 18:57 | ...2.... | |
| 18:57 | ...1.... | |
| 18:57 | tabitha_ | Send itineraries this way and I will help arrange tourist part of your visit :-) |
| 18:57 | mchua_ | ....1.... |
| 18:57 | *gavel!* | |
| 18:57 | #endmeeting |