| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 14:07 | lfaraone | erikos: oh really. |
| 14:07 | #stopmeeting | |
| 14:07 | marcopg | erikos: that's on the other channel |
| 14:07 | Gregorio | so this will become the meat of the conference: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XOCamp_2#9.1.0_Requirements_and_Specification_Review |
| 14:07 | erikos | marcopg: lfaraone ok - i will be quite then |
| 14:07 | Gregorio | I need to tweak that |
| 14:07 | marcopg | erikos: don't be quiet! |
| 14:08 | stops making noise in meetings | |
| 14:08 | Gregorio | edmcnierney: any suggestion on how I get someone assigned to prepare the talk on each piece? |
| 14:08 | we can come back to that as the next agenda item is 30 minutes on XO camp in general | |
| 14:08 | edmcnierney | I would be happy to help make assignments at the end of this week if we don't get volunteers (or delete the items). |
| 14:09 | Gregorio | great, thanks, I'll roll over my AI to next week until closed with a definitive list of talks and names |
| 14:09 | cjb | Gregorio: I guess I have some blunt questions, such as "the first item is i18n/l10n, but the only person who's worked on those things for us isn't going to be working for us anymore, so should it still be a main 9.1 goal?" |
| 14:09 | Gregorio | Chris good question, can you hold it for a moment while I hound people to follow up on their AIs from last week? |
| 14:09 | edmcnierney | cjb: I would not assume that that is the case - I have been talking to unmadindu about helping him be able to stick around to complete 9.1 work. |
| 14:09 | Gregorio | then we'll have a deep dive in XO camp next |
| 14:10 | and 9.1 work and schedule after that | |
| 14:10 | briefly on AIs - Action item: Joe and Ed to read schedule and update as needed by next meeting: Wed. 12/17. | |
| 14:10 | edmcnierney | Gregorio: Nothing to me to report - ice storm adventures and way more time (well-spent) with folks from Ghana have gotten in the way. OK to set due dates for both to Friday 12/19. |
| 14:10 | cjb | edmcnierney: oh, neat. |
| 14:10 | Gregorio | OK the schedule is here: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/9.1.0#Schedule |
| 14:10 | it needs work! | |
| 14:11 | will roll over to next week, let me know how I can help | |
| 14:11 | cjb | edmcnierney: (is it still an assumption when I'm going on the last thing you told us? ;-) |
| 14:11 | edmcnierney | cjb: Well, I assume it is! |
| 14:11 | cjb | cunning. okay, back to Greg. |
| 14:12 | Gregorio | last item on AI list is Trac bug scrub start date |
| 14:12 | to Ed | |
| 14:12 | can we pick a date to spend all day scrubbing the trac db? | |
| 14:13 | edmcnierney | Nothing to report - ice storm adventures and way more time (well-spent) with folks from Ghana have gotten in the way. OK to set due dates for both to Friday 12/19. |
| 14:13 | joef | Gregorio: as we spoke today, QA's turn follows development... |
| 14:13 | edmcnierney | (I'll say it again if you like ;) ) |
| 14:13 | marcopg | wow all day, that's going to kill us! |
| 14:13 | Gregorio | :-) |
| 14:13 | at least a day | |
| 14:13 | ice storm extension granted, due date of Friday for both | |
| 14:13 | edmcnierney | I think we'll take more than one day, but in big chunks. |
| 14:13 | Gregorio | Joe, on schedule, I need to know what milestones you will track |
| 14:13 | marcopg | yeah that sounds better ;) |
| 14:14 | edmcnierney | We have a pile of old tickets, but I'd like to structure it so we can be both prepared and efficient. |
| 14:14 | Gregorio | you don't need to give me dates, just milestones to define the work you will do |
| 14:14 | you got two days! just kidding boss ;-) | |
| 14:14 | edmcnierney | Watch your language... |
| 14:15 | Gregorio | on to the real agenda |
| 14:15 | 30 minutes - XO Camp review and status. | |
| 14:15 | joef | Gregorio: obviosly, those test case development and test execution |
| 14:15 | Gregorio | cjb want to warm us up? |
| 14:15 | cjb | Gregorio: I'm still in bed with flu, so probably best to mostly watch and shout if something seems wrong, if that's okay ;-) |
| 14:16 | Gregorio | np, flu extension granted to cjb :-) |
| 14:16 | cjb | (feeling much more comfortable today, though) |
| 14:16 | Gregorio | in short I want to cover all the main features which are defined here: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/9.1.0#Features |
| 14:16 | not done pasting them in the XO camp page | |
| 14:17 | did I hear right that Ed and team will come up with a name for each by Friday? | |
| 14:17 | cjb | Gregorio: (actually, I'm not sure what you were asking for from me -- could you clarify?) |
| 14:18 | edmcnierney | My plan is to take a big whack at it on Friday (I have no appointments, and with the weather forecast I may stay home and wiki-whack all day). |
| 14:18 | Gregorio | cjb I just wanted to give you a chance to set the debate and discussion on XO camp in general because you wanted more time last week and we doubled the time allotted for you and michael |
| 14:18 | cjb | oh, and Michael doesn't seem to be here, I see |
| 14:19 | yamaplos | I really meed to talk to you guys about inviting Sur people - some might need passport, visa, (time & $$$) and no use trying if they're not inviting |
| 14:19 | dsaxena | wants to note that he is not feeling terribly motivated to work on slides for XOCamp until he knows for sure he'll be there |
| 14:19 | edmcnierney | Oh - sorry - Michael mentioned that he had an unexpected friend in town and was having lunch with him. |
| 14:19 | I would encourage everyone to prepare 9.1 work for XOCamp whether they're here or not. | |
| 14:20 | Gregorio | one moment, let me see if I can get SJ.... |
| 14:21 | edmcnierney | I was wondering why Michael was explaining his lunch plans to me in more detail than usual... |
| 14:21 | Gregorio | I think he is coming |
| 14:22 | cjb | maybe we should slide this topic to the end? |
| 14:22 | Gregorio | for my part of XO camp, I'm trying to get a set of meetings defined and posted with schedules ASAP |
| 14:23 | dsd_ | any idea any news on travel funding? |
| 14:23 | yamaplos | No prob to leave it to the end, we already did that on Sunday and it didn't happen, but I will be hurt in my love over and over and not complain ;-( |
| 14:23 | cjb | we could talk about travel funding without Michael |
| 14:23 | Gregorio | all right, SJ is trying to get booted up, I'll tell him he has more time and we can move on for now |
| 14:24 | next up is: 45 minutes - 9.1.0 status. Schedule review, status of major features, page updates and roadmap scrub status. | |
| 14:24 | edmcnierney | dsd_: I am still trying to get firm commitments for OLPC staff (employees/contractors active and continuing) travel budget. I don't have funds for any more than that (if even that much), and I know there's no interest in any "fundraising" under an OLPC umbrella. |
| 14:24 | Gregorio | I think we covered schedule |
| 14:24 | dsd_ | ok |
| 14:24 | edmcnierney | I think there was a suggestion last time to work with Bernie on voluntary coordination, and I haven't heard anything better. |
| 14:25 | cjb | ok. so we probably want to do any fundraising under sugarlabs. |
| 14:25 | yamaplos | dsd, ed: same here for volunteers |
| 14:25 | edmcnierney | cjb: I think actually there was a similar problem with an official "Sugar Labs" appeal. |
| 14:25 | cjb | edmcnierney: what kind of problem? |
| 14:25 | edmcnierney | "Bernie" seemed to be a vehicle outside both organizations. |
| 14:25 | Gregorio | man do I miss in person meetings with a gavel! :-) |
| 14:26 | youre started, go ahead on XO camp | |
| 14:26 | edmcnierney | cjb: Not sure - I think c_scott simply reported that it existed, and I didn't ask. |
| 14:26 | Gregorio | let me know when you are done and I'll move on then |
| 14:26 | cjb | huh, okay. Bernie is on the Sugar Labs board, so I don't understand the last comment. |
| 14:26 | oh! | |
| 14:27 | yamaplos | cjd and I am ahired gun for OLE, but things are never that simple here |
| 14:27 | sorry cjb: | |
| 14:27 | cjb | this isn't really ontopic, but I think sugarlabs got their donation infrastructure set up this week, through the software freedom conservancy: http://sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Labs/Donate |
| 14:27 | _sj_ | catching up |
| 14:28 | cjb | so I think things should go simpler. people interested in fundraising for xocamp should go bring it up on the sugar lists, sounds like. |
| 14:28 | _sj_ | do we have a full list of devs that olpc is covering? |
| 14:28 | bemasc | Ok, great. Sugarlabs will handle donations and reimbursements for participants not funded by OLPC. great. |
| 14:28 | _sj_ | and that fedora is covering? |
| 14:29 | bemasc, via the donate page? is there an option other than sending a check now? | |
| 14:29 | dsaxena | Gregorio: I have to leave due to an appointment.. :( Status for power stuff is that I believe we are at 700-800ms for resume to userspace, but need to fix a timekeeping bug to get exact data. I will start looking at the more interesting problems of parallelizing some kernel bits next. I will also take a look at and comment on all 9.1 kernel bugs in next week. |
| 14:29 | erikg | dsaxena: please ping me when you're available. i want to discuss compcache. |
| 14:29 | edmcnierney | dsaxena: Great - thanks. |
| 14:29 | dsaxena | erikg: ok, will do |
| 14:29 | yamaplos | we had a sort of wiki page fragmente before for dealing with donation requests / offers, housing and such that got rolled over to SUgarcamp |
| 14:29 | bemasc | _sj_: google checkout and paypal are also up now. |
| 14:30 | Gregorio | thanks dsaxena will paste in to minutes |
| 14:30 | edmcnierney | Guys, I think the donation process is great but let's try to stay on topic for this meeting. Thanks. |
| 14:30 | Gregorio | anything for the minutes on travel and donations? |
| 14:30 | bemasc | wait... we used to be at 1400!? Did dsaxena do something huge? |
| 14:30 | Gregorio | I can close it with some AIs if that helps |
| 14:31 | _sj_ | I see that |
| 14:31 | Gregorio | on schedule of events for XO camp my AI is to have a schedule with times and subjects before next wed. |
| 14:31 | cjb | bemasc: yup, we were at ~1100 and he found the go-faster button |
| 14:31 | bemasc | awesome! |
| 14:31 | edmcnierney | I wouldn't want to make a statement on Sugar Lab's behalf, so we should confirm things first. |
| 14:31 | Gregorio | then Ed and engineers add names and we have a technical plan in place |
| 14:31 | edmcnierney | cjb: We just need two more of those buttons. |
| 14:32 | _sj_ | and parallel times for the community track, but we're still refining topics |
| 14:32 | cjb | _sj_: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XOCamp_2/Fundraising contains a list of travel funding request (should probably move over to the SL wiki) |
| 14:32 | edmcnierney: indeed! | |
| 14:32 | Gregorio | SJ, any progress on breaking out a "community" track? |
| 14:32 | I updated the page and made a place for that | |
| 14:32 | edmcnierney | cjb: We should indeed move that over to SL wiki before I get whacked on the head again... |
| 14:32 | Gregorio | http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XOca[…]2#Community_Track |
| 14:33 | Ai to move that URL? | |
| 14:33 | _sj_ | yes |
| 14:33 | we'll have a schedule for wed but need more proposals / | |
| 14:33 | Gregorio | any takers (maybe a sugar aware person)? |
| 14:33 | edmcnierney | cjb, can you own the wiki move? |
| 14:33 | _sj_ | for the people to present. |
| 14:33 | [for transwikiing, it would be great to have a process in place to preserv history] | |
| 14:34 | cjb | I can, or perhaps _sj_ if he's working on community travel stuff |
| 14:34 | edmcnierney | Either's fine with me. |
| 14:34 | eben | _sj_: good point |
| 14:34 | _sj_ | I can move it. I'll post the history on the talk page |
| 14:34 | cjb | _sj_: thanks! |
| 14:35 | yamaplos | Look, I'll own the community thing ITMYH, but I need to have a straight answer about the travel funds issues. please? |
| 14:35 | Gregorio | on technical topics, I will have a slot for every OLPC 9.1.0 feature |
| 14:35 | _sj_ | so, presentations specifically on community issues, some following onto the fedora community track, are welcome |
| 14:35 | cjb | yamaplos: I think you just got a straight answer |
| 14:35 | yamaplos: OLPC might be able to fund its own employees, and isn't able to fund anyone else | |
| 14:35 | _sj_ | yama, we don't have commitments for travel funds outside its employees atm |
| 14:35 | yamaplos | oh! |
| 14:36 | cjb | yamaplos: (at least, that's what I think Ed just said) |
| 14:36 | edmcnierney | yamaplos: Yes, that's correct - sorry if that wasn't clear. |
| 14:36 | yamaplos | lookit |
| 14:36 | cjb | yamaplos: scroll up a bit :) |
| 14:36 | Gregorio | I'll paste that in the minutes |
| 14:36 | edmcnierney | (although I thought it was, and is just the same thing I've been saying for several weeks) |
| 14:36 | _sj_ | so funding where needed will have to come from other sources |
| 14:36 | yamaplos | I saw that. I still hoped you saw the role of the community in this game |
| 14:36 | Gotcha! | |
| 14:37 | Gregorio | on XO camp schedule of talks |
| 14:37 | _sj_ | this isn't community vs. software development, it is employees vs all the other people doing important relevant things |
| 14:37 | edmcnierney | I am again expecting to set up at least modest technical support to help remote participants. Money's tight all over. |
| 14:37 | Gregorio | I plan to have a slot for every 9.1.0 feature |
| 14:37 | yamaplos | OK, guys, gotta go. Just wished I had had that clearer before, but now it's in writing. |
| 14:37 | Sorry wasting your time | |
| 14:37 | _sj_ | what about "the features left on the floor" |
| 14:37 | cjb | yamaplos: I think it's clear that if we can't even fund our own employees, there's no choice here :) |
| 14:37 | Gregorio | I'll also have a slot for "user requirement" (technical but it gives me a chance to tell you what I want to happen :-) |
| 14:38 | beyond that I'm thinking we could use a slot on Sugar, focusing on test, development, timing, etc | |
| 14:38 | yamaplos | We could discuss it. So far I've met rather empty offers even for that, but now it's clear, so no prob, man |
| 14:38 | Gregorio | erikos you still here? |
| 14:38 | marcopg | Gregorio: he was here a couple of mins ago, so I think so |
| 14:38 | cjb | edmcnierney: I'm wincing at the "again"; I haven't seen any credible attempts at remote participation yet. |
| 14:39 | yamaplos | I'm not jumping the boat, I just gotta deliver this project today, and obviously me staying in this meeting won't make a difference for this issue, which is my only reason I am sacrificing vital work time. Love you all |
| 14:39 | Gregorio | any sugar personb can help here: how about a sugar 0.83/.84 synching with 9.1.0 meeting? |
| 14:39 | maybe a review of features and bug fixes for QA or a status and plan for prioritizing bugs in the last 6 weeks of development? | |
| 14:39 | edmcnierney | cjb: Well, in this case "again" refers to the original effort to do so for this event when it was scheduled for November. |
| 14:39 | c_scott | (sugarlabs fundraising problem: as of last i checked, SL didn't have a way to earmark donated funds, which complicates their setting up a travel-specific scholarship fund) |
| 14:39 | xobot | c_scott: by the way, homunq told me to tell you 'aa and I are wondering if there is any news on xocamp travel scholarship fundraising.' 8 days, 23 hours, 4 minutes and 6 seconds ago (on Mon Dec 8 22:34:45 2008) |
| 14:40 | marcopg | Gregorio: you mean a meeting to do the syncing? |
| 14:40 | edmcnierney | cjb: Unfortunately, a moderate amount of research work has produced (IMHO) a variety of flawed approaches of varying complexity. |
| 14:40 | I'm planning another whack at it over the Christmas holidays. | |
| 14:40 | marcopg | c_scott: should have it now |
| 14:40 | Gregorio | I think we should take the time to sit together and make sure we know how we will test, triage and resolve bugs |
| 14:40 | does that make sense? | |
| 14:41 | marcopg | Gregorio: sure |
| 14:41 | edmcnierney | Gregorio: You mean as a session at XOCamp? |
| 14:41 | Gregorio | right |
| 14:41 | c_scott | marcopg: no, there's still no obvious way to do it. (can you provide a URL?) |
| 14:41 | edmcnierney | Sure, sounds good to me. We should get as many folks on the same page as possible. |
| 14:42 | marcopg | c_scott: probably, wait |
| 14:42 | c_scott | marcopg: oh, nevermind, i found it |
| 14:42 | 'donate' from the SL home page. (that link could stand to be higher up!) | |
| 14:42 | Gregorio | all right, I think all other propsals will drop but we may have time for one or two more if they are important and we have a presenter |
| 14:42 | edmcnierney | Sounds good |
| 14:43 | Gregorio | please re-read the list and let me know if anything in section 3.4 should move up and get a slot: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XOca[…]2#Technical_Track |
| 14:43 | e.g. I would love to see a performance optimization meeting, but not sure I have the time to manage it.... | |
| 14:43 | I'll leave that in the notes | |
| 14:44 | and ready to move on to 9.1.0 page review | |
| 14:44 | cjb | Gregorio: sugar performance optimization? |
| 14:44 | Gregorio | last call for XO camp comments or questions.... |
| 14:44 | bemasc | I think it might be good to leave a block at XO camp for spontaneous stuff |
| 14:44 | Gregorio | re: cjb see recent thread on performance on devel and let me know if that counts as sugar or not |
| 14:44 | good idea bemasc | |
| 14:45 | I'll add free time once I know how much we need for 9.1.0 features | |
| 14:45 | bemasc | a lightning-talk session or similar, perhaps, for people with small presentations/demos to use |
| 14:45 | Gregorio | or lightning talks |
| 14:45 | last call on XO camp.... | |
| 14:45 | cjb | looks good to me |
| 14:45 | edmcnierney | ship it |
| 14:45 | cjb | I'm not sure whether people want to hear our Uruguay talk again |
| 14:46 | (3.1.2) | |
| 14:46 | everyone at Sugarcamp heard it already | |
| 14:46 | Gregorio | will remove uruguay (I missed the original so any links appreciated) |
| 14:46 | edmcnierney | cjb; I'd like to keep that on the radar if possible - you learned some good stuff. |
| 14:46 | Gregorio | OK, I'll keep it |
| 14:47 | I can haranmgue the team about the customer is always right for an hour or a day, whatever is needed, so we can leave that somewhat flexible :-) | |
| 14:47 | edmcnierney | Let's see how it goes, assuming that there is little preparation needed should we want to do it again. |
| 14:47 | Gregorio | last, last call on XO camp.... |
| 14:47 | cjb | ok. |
| 14:47 | Gregorio | next up is: 45 minutes - 9.1.0 status. Schedule review, status of major features, page updates and roadmap scrub status. |
| 14:48 | see: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/9.1.0 | |
| 14:48 | we're going to update the schedule this week per earlier discussion | |
| 14:48 | dsd_ | joyride is bordering on usability again |
| 14:48 | Gregorio | good to know |
| 14:49 | I think we should set a target for when we move it to "build of the week" status like we did last time | |
| 14:49 | dsd_ | i think we can do that soon |
| 14:49 | Gregorio | anyway, Ed then me then Joe gets next stab at schedule (any other suggestions plug them in somewhere) |
| 14:49 | edmcnierney | Right |
| 14:49 | Gregorio | I want to dig in to the requirements for a moment |
| 14:50 | I listed the features: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/9.1.0#Features | |
| 14:50 | joef | correct |
| 14:50 | Gregorio | you can also see them on the new roadmap page via query |
| 14:50 | power work seems under control | |
| 14:51 | fedora apps also moving ahead | |
| 14:51 | rebase on Fedora 10 has not had a lot of movement | |
| 14:51 | but I can poke that soon | |
| 14:51 | its section #2 that I am most worried about | |
| 14:51 | bemasc | Gregorio: there's a pretty big gap between "under control" and "likely to hit the listed targets". Some of the features on the Improved_battery_life page seem very reasonable, and some are just about impossible. |
| 14:52 | Gregorio | hmm on battery life we met and cjb said it was all doable and on its way.... |
| 14:52 | cjb | bemasc: go on? |
| 14:52 | Gregorio | minutes and action items on that posted to devel |
| 14:52 | pgf | maybe cjb was delirious with the flu |
| 14:52 | bemasc | ok. I defer entirely to cjb. I expect great progress. I'm just saying that e.g. flicker-free resume may not even be possible with this hardware. |
| 14:52 | erikg | bemasc: ? |
| 14:53 | edmcnierney | bemasc: That's not a power problem, that's a human interface problem ;) |
| 14:53 | erikg | time to get your eyes downgraded |
| 14:53 | to a less sensitive model | |
| 14:53 | dsd_ | bemasc: flickering resume is a regression.. it used to work ok |
| 14:53 | bemasc | edmcnierney: ok, but it's on http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Feat[…]oved_battery_life |
| 14:53 | cjb | bemasc: I don't believe that yet. Mitch and Deepak offered to work on it together -- all I can do is hope they come up with something. And, what dsd_ said. |
| 14:53 | Gregorio | OK, dig in to the detail on the power thread on devel please or start a new one or add comments and info on the feature page |
| 14:53 | bemasc | ok |
| 14:54 | Gregorio | on section 2, image customization, faster imaging, signing key stuff and time base lease managementy |
| 14:54 | that is the biggest ticket item in some ways | |
| 14:54 | edmcnierney | I think what is important here is that the items on the "better power management" list are understood, under discussion, and are being addressed. That doesn't mean they'll all make it in, but we're actually making progress on them. |
| 14:55 | ("We're", in this case, meaning a plural group of people that does not include me) | |
| 14:55 | cjb | Yeah. It means that we actually assigned people to work on each of those things, and they know they're on the hook for them :) |
| 14:55 | bemasc | great. |
| 14:55 | Gregorio | see the page for who is doing what |
| 14:56 | and close your AIs from the power meeting before I ping you for status on the list again.... | |
| 14:56 | on to section 2, image customization, faster imaging, signing key stuff and time base lease managementy | |
| 14:56 | I think its all well defined but I don't have good engineering engagement | |
| 14:56 | I'll parse it in steps unless someone wants to step up (cscott?) | |
| 14:56 | c_scott | |
| 14:57 | OK, one step at a time | |
| 14:57 | I could use an ack that the list of features is a good target set, includes the main points and is achievable | |
| 14:57 | they all work together to some degree | |
| 14:58 | I have an ack from the customers (ethiopia, Peru and others) | |
| 14:58 | just need to confirm that we can deliver the whole paackage | |
| 14:58 | erikg | i'm a bit vague on what you're describing |
| 14:58 | as far as what 'the whole package' is | |
| 14:58 | Gregorio | point 2 here: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/9.1.0#Features |
| 14:58 | edmcnierney | Gregorio: I probably need to own the first step of this in my wiki review. We've had some good discussions about what customers need, what we think we can do, etc., and I think I need to help you ensure that the requirements are well and accurately described. We understand the concepts but perhaps not the details. |
| 14:58 | erikg | Gregorio: thank you |
| 14:58 | Gregorio | in terms of the whole package, let me say it this way |
| 14:59 | make an XO the way you like it (RPMs, languages, config files, content etc.) then click here and it clones that image and blasts (USB wireless multicast, XS or whatever) on to 10K XOs, signed, sealed and delivered | |
| 14:59 | erikg | Gregorio: at present we can get most of the desired functionalities described there. it's a matter of educating our deployments in how to use them, and testing those functionalities which are newer (NANDBlaster) |
| 15:00 | Gregorio: that's fine... but it only will work if you get rid of the security system | |
| 15:00 | edmcnierney | Gregorio: It would be nice if OFW also wired the payment for the machines... |
| 15:00 | cjb | erikg: that's why he said "signed" :) |
| 15:00 | Gregorio | I think I'm hearing the Erikos wants to be a lead on this.... |
| 15:00 | erikg | cjb: :) |
| 15:00 | Gregorio | sorry erikg |
| 15:00 | erikg | oh man that keeps happening |
| 15:00 | nw | |
| 15:00 | dsd_ | cloning an XO has always been dodgy ground, because we dont have a specification of the per-XO stuff that gets created on first boot. you will need proper engineering time to solve this, and i dont have any immediate ideas how you would do it cleanly |
| 15:01 | erikg | getting that specification would be quite useful |
| 15:01 | cjb | yes, we've tried to strongly discourage that |
| 15:01 | Gregorio | read the requirements, write down how they are addressed and ask any questions on the wiki page or on list |
| 15:01 | dsd_ | my suggestion would be to continue expanding the current customisation approach, which works very well for the things it lets you do |
| 15:01 | Gregorio | please |
| 15:01 | erikg | ok |
| 15:01 | edmcnierney | Gregorio: I'm suggesting I help do that - these are the kinds of "details" we need to flush out. |
| 15:02 | erikg | dsd_: we can expand it 'as far as possible' if we can produce a method to go from a given system -> a 'clean' system |
| 15:02 | as far as possible within, say, the bounds of a given set of distributions | |
| 15:02 | Gregorio | edmcnierney: you;re on, I especially need someone to keep me honest. Since I edit the priority and "target 9.1" fields I may try to pack in a lot of stuff |
| 15:02 | you need to push back if its not doable or not clear | |
| 15:02 | otherwise I take erikg's comments that its done literally and start selling it... | |
| 15:03 | which puts you all on the spot to work over Xmas | |
| 15:03 | pgf | wonders if, with partitions, we could use unionfs and keep the distributed image pristine. |
| 15:03 | erikg | pgf: yes. untested. |
| 15:03 | Gregorio | so AI is for Ed (and anyone else) to review set of features in 9.1.0 page, comment if anything is missing or if anything should not be on that list |
| 15:03 | erikg | Mitch has been interested in things like that |
| 15:03 | Gregorio | OK? |
| 15:04 | erikg | Linutop does something similar |
| 15:04 | although i somewhat doubt they're using unionfs | |
| 15:05 | Gregorio | AI is for edmcnierney (and anyone else) to review set of features in 9.1.0 page, comment if anything is missing or if anything should not be on that list |
| 15:05 | OK? | |
| 15:05 | edmcnierney | ok |
| 15:05 | Gregorio | then maybe a few words on localization and other 9.1.0 page sections before we talk trac |
| 15:05 | localization section needs work | |
| 15:06 | its close with SCIM | |
| 15:06 | edmcnierney | We should ask unmadindu to give it the once-over |
| 15:06 | Gregorio | I think t hat is the only must have piece so far |
| 15:06 | I'm inclined to add Better Arabic and RTL | |
| 15:06 | unmadindu | SCIM is almost ready, except for etoys and Scratch, which refuse to take input |
| 15:07 | cjb | huh, I wonder why |
| 15:07 | unmadindu | plans on pushing some patches to Rainbow tomorrow |
| 15:07 | Gregorio | can you put links to the code, example test cases, languages supported and any other documentation on SCIM on the feature page? |
| 15:07 | unmadindu | Gregorio: ok, will do |
| 15:07 | Gregorio | thanks |
| 15:08 | the only other piece on language which I think is must have is Arabic and RTL | |
| 15:08 | any objections to making those Priority 1 target 9.1.0 features? | |
| 15:08 | cjb | unmadindu: (you know we turned off rainbow prefork recently, right?) |
| 15:09 | unmadindu | cjb: yeah, I'm doing the testing on recent joyrides.. |
| 15:09 | Gregorio | I'll put arabic proposal in the minutes and you can comment + or - later |
| 15:09 | cjb | unmadindu: ok, interesting that it's still messing it up despite prefork being off |
| 15:09 | Gregorio | other parts of the 9.1.0 page needing work are: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/9.1.0#Activities |
| 15:09 | morgs | |
| 15:09 | are you around? | |
| 15:10 | morgs | Gregorio: hi |
| 15:10 | unmadindu | cjb: I did a lot of workaround initially to get around prefork, the problem now is that I have to take care of those once again (disable those) ;) |
| 15:10 | Gregorio | I could use help listing the target activities, finding out who will test, keeping in touch with the maintainer etc. |
| 15:10 | I started the thread but the page didn't come out quite as nice as I had hoped | |
| 15:10 | cjb | unmadindu: :) |
| 15:10 | Gregorio | can you take some of that work? |
| 15:10 | we're about 3 months ahead of where we were in 8.2.0 :-) | |
| 15:11 | morgs | Gregorio: mchua has all the maintainer contact details from me... I'll see what I can do but I don't know what you want to ship, seeing as OLPC consistently doesn't want to support activities. |
| 15:11 | Gregorio | page is: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/9.1.0#Activities |
| 15:11 | cjb | oh yes, mchua made a list of all activity maintainers recently |
| 15:11 | Gregorio: so you should ask her for that | |
| 15:11 | Gregorio | my goal is a list of tested, quality activities which we can choose from |
| 15:12 | OK, I can get that from mchua, but I could use help tracking and managing the communication | |
| 15:12 | morgs | Gregorio: mchua mentioned something about activity testing. I don't know what the QA team is doing though. |
| 15:12 | edmcnierney | Why don't we start with what mchua has, then? |
| 15:12 | Gregorio | my idea is to have a list on this page which shows which ones we know work with 9.1.0 and what their status is |
| 15:13 | all right, not hearing anyone really excited :-( I'll work with Mel | |
| 15:13 | edmcnierney | Well, we need to figure out how to define "we know work"... |
| 15:13 | Gregorio | this can be a fun area so ping me if you can help |
| 15:13 | edmcnierney | But you can talk to mchua about that. |
| 15:13 | Gregorio | btw are we breaking all activities APIs again? |
| 15:13 | any documentation on that available? | |
| 15:13 | what happened to the guy (forget his name) who was documenting APIs? | |
| 15:14 | morgs | Gregorio: I have no idea why you say "breaking all activities APIs". We've never done that. |
| 15:14 | edmcnierney | Gregorio: Well, WE won't ;) - but I have not heard discussion about incompatible API changes. |
| 15:14 | morgs | There are activities which ran on 62x which run on 767. |
| 15:14 | Gregorio | sorry to harsh |
| 15:14 | too harsh | |
| 15:14 | many activities had to be rewritten for 8.2 (maybe due to rainbow) | |
| 15:14 | cjb | Gregorio: (we ended his contract) |
| 15:15 | Gregorio | I hear you, we just couldn't say which ones without testing |
| 15:15 | would be nice to have some code inspection level validation that activities which work in 767 will work in 9.1.0 | |
| 15:15 | edmcnierney | We should be encouraging Activity authors to lead that effort. |
| 15:16 | Gregorio | I'll leave it at that for now, should we add an activity status and tracking item to next weeks agenda or just chip away at it on e-mail? |
| 15:17 | eben | Do we have specific reason to believe that some activities might be broken? It seems like all new effort is focused at a lower level for 9.1 |
| 15:17 | cjb | eben: don't think so |
| 15:17 | morgs | Gregorio: the Sugar API stability policy is documented at http://sugarlabs.org/go/Develo[…]ntTeam/API_policy |
| 15:17 | Gregorio | I like the sound of that! |
| 15:17 | pgf | i certainly hope we don't break anything unnecessarily. |
| 15:17 | eben | That is....regression testing is something that activity developers should be doing, but unless we know/suspect that we broke something, there's nothing we need to do there. |
| 15:18 | Right, Sugarlabs takes this very seriously. | |
| 15:18 | Gregorio | great, that's a lot more encouraging than the last time we went over this ~5 months ago |
| 15:18 | bemasc | Automatic power management (not on by default in 8.2) will probably break some things. |
| 15:18 | Gregorio | I'll read up on the URL and put it the minutes |
| 15:18 | dsd_ | some activities are already broken for 9.1 |
| 15:19 | APIs have changed | |
| 15:19 | i already did the work to split up the wiki pages | |
| 15:19 | cjb | bemasc: we can work out what those activities are and bypass power management for them, though |
| 15:19 | Gregorio | hmm, I thought power would not break any activities, need to re-read the requirements.... |
| 15:19 | out of time on 9.1.0 page now, should move on to trac | |
| 15:20 | bemasc | cjb: sure... by modifying the activities. It's a small API change. |
| 15:20 | Gregorio | do we need a slot for activity discussion next week? or maybe a person to document or start thread |
| 15:20 | dsd_ | the 8.2 activities that I know of that wont work on 9.1 are: Browse, Read, Record, probably more to come |
| 15:20 | Gregorio | ouch! |
| 15:20 | cjb | bemasc: can you think of any that would break if treat audio or video use as not-idleness? |
| 15:20 | s/if/if we/ | |
| 15:21 | bemasc | cjb: depends on whether we get kernel wakeups. |
| 15:21 | Gregorio | last call for votes on activity discussion next week... |
| 15:22 | cjb | bemasc: that'd be an API rather than automatic, for 9.1 |
| 15:22 | (you can ask for one) | |
| 15:22 | Gregorio | or name to start thread on power + activity question or thread on activity APIs |
| 15:22 | come on, someone can give me a + or - on whether they want to dig in to this more..... | |
| 15:23 | next week | |
| 15:23 | cjl | Gregorio: Making sure tha Browse, Read and Record work in 9.1 seems pretty impt. |
| 15:23 | Gregorio | I'll take that as a + :-) |
| 15:23 | dsd_ | they do, you just need new versions |
| 15:23 | Gregorio | will add to agenda |
| 15:23 | cjl | +++ |
| 15:23 | dsd_ | activity updater will take care of it |
| 15:23 | Gregorio | last items for today: Trac conventions then AI review and agenda for next week |
| 15:23 | 20 minutes - Trac scrub and conventions review. | |
| 15:24 | edmcnierney: did you have any luck with M_stone on setting the conventions? | |
| 15:24 | edmcnierney | No - still on our radar, but I haven't done that yet. He and I have not forgotten. We spent an hour or so on existing setup, mainly to educate me. |
| 15:25 | Gregorio | OK, its already on your AI list |
| 15:25 | edmcnierney | I will soon need input from other folks on what works for them, too. |
| 15:25 | Gregorio | we can spend 20 minutes now talking about suggestions for how to do it, if there is interest |
| 15:26 | 5 minutes bio break then debate trac? | |
| 15:26 | or call it a day? | |
| 15:26 | edmcnierney | I don't think it's helpful to have that discussion yet - sorry, but I'd rather be prepared for it. |
| 15:26 | pgf | is bio scheduled for 9.1? i don't see it on the roadmap. |
| 15:27 | joef | call it a day! I suggest to have a special meeting on trac - going over all its fields |
| 15:27 | edmcnierney | Is it a customer requirement? |
| 15:28 | Gregorio | :-) I plan to get some port-a-johns from irobot so you can code and use the bathroom without ever leavng your chair |
| 15:28 | so no bio breaks planned | |
| 15:29 | agenda for next week: XO camp update, 9.1.0 status including activity tracking, sugar 0.84 and 9.1.0 synchronization | |
| 15:29 | and trac status | |
| 15:29 | OK? | |
| 15:30 | do we really need two hours? | |
| 15:31 | that's it, will put it in the minutes, reply with comments as needed | |
| 15:31 | word of the week? | |
| 15:31 | I have a wrinkle here, challenge is to use the word of the week in a public e-mail before the next meeting | |
| 15:32 | here's mine: zeugma | |
| 15:32 | sorry its got greek etymology | |
| 15:33 | thanks all | |
| 15:33 | 80 days until release! | |
| 15:33 | dsd_ | Gregorio: i posted some comments on the Image_customization page for you |
| 15:33 | Gregorio | dsd_ thanks |
| 15:34 | everyone, please hack away at those top features | |
| 15:34 | bye | |
| 15:35 | cjl | Synechodoche |
| 15:35 | edmcnierney | My zeugma's attacking my dogma. |
| 15:36 | Your synecdoche has an echo in it. | |
| 15:36 | cjl | Well, that is only part of it, but it does represent the whole. |
| 16:19 | lfaraone | #endmeetng |
| 16:19 | #endmeeting |