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#olpc-meeting, 2008-12-17

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
14:07 lfaraone erikos: oh really.
14:07 #stopmeeting
14:07 marcopg erikos: that's on the other channel
14:07 Gregorio so this will become the meat of the conference: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XOCamp_2#9.1.0_Requirements_and_Specification_Review
14:07 erikos marcopg: lfaraone ok - i will be quite then
14:07 Gregorio I need to tweak that
14:07 marcopg erikos: don't be quiet!
14:08 stops making noise in meetings
14:08 Gregorio edmcnierney: any suggestion on how I get someone assigned to prepare the talk on each piece?
14:08 we can come back to that as the next agenda item is 30 minutes on XO camp in general
14:08 edmcnierney I would be happy to help make assignments at the end of this week if we don't get volunteers (or delete the items).
14:09 Gregorio great, thanks, I'll roll over my AI to next week until closed with a definitive list of talks and names
14:09 cjb Gregorio: I guess I have some blunt questions, such as "the first item is i18n/l10n, but the only person who's worked on those things for us isn't going to be working for us anymore, so should it still be a main 9.1 goal?"
14:09 Gregorio Chris good question, can you hold it for a moment while I hound people to follow up on their AIs from last week?
14:09 edmcnierney cjb: I would not assume that that is the case - I have been talking to unmadindu about helping him be able to stick around to complete 9.1 work.
14:09 Gregorio then we'll have a deep dive in XO camp next
14:10 and 9.1 work and schedule after that
14:10 briefly on AIs - Action item: Joe and Ed to read schedule and update as needed by next meeting: Wed. 12/17.
14:10 edmcnierney Gregorio: Nothing to me to report - ice storm adventures and way more time (well-spent) with folks from Ghana have gotten in the way.  OK to set due dates for both to Friday 12/19.
14:10 cjb edmcnierney: oh, neat.
14:10 Gregorio OK the schedule is here: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/9.1.0#Schedule
14:10 it needs work!
14:11 will roll over to next week, let me know how I can help
14:11 cjb edmcnierney: (is it still an assumption when I'm going on the last thing you told us?  ;-)
14:11 edmcnierney cjb: Well, I assume it is!
14:11 cjb cunning.  okay, back to Greg.
14:12 Gregorio last item on AI list is Trac bug scrub start date
14:12 to Ed
14:12 can we pick a date to spend all day scrubbing the trac db?
14:13 edmcnierney Nothing to report - ice storm adventures and way more time (well-spent) with folks from Ghana have gotten in the way.  OK to set due dates for both to Friday 12/19.
14:13 joef Gregorio: as we spoke today, QA's turn follows development...
14:13 edmcnierney (I'll say it again if you like ;) )
14:13 marcopg wow all day, that's going to kill us!
14:13 Gregorio :-)
14:13 at least a day
14:13 ice storm extension granted, due date of Friday for both
14:13 edmcnierney I think we'll take more than one day, but in big chunks.
14:13 Gregorio Joe, on schedule, I need to know what milestones you will track
14:13 marcopg yeah that sounds better ;)
14:14 edmcnierney We have a pile of old tickets, but I'd like to structure it so we can be both prepared and efficient.
14:14 Gregorio you don't need to give me dates, just milestones to define the work you will do
14:14 you got two days! just kidding boss ;-)
14:14 edmcnierney Watch your language...
14:15 Gregorio on to the real agenda
14:15 30 minutes - XO Camp review and status.
14:15 joef Gregorio: obviosly, those test case development and test execution
14:15 Gregorio cjb want to warm us up?
14:15 cjb Gregorio: I'm still in bed with flu, so probably best to mostly watch and shout if something seems wrong, if that's okay ;-)
14:16 Gregorio np, flu extension granted to cjb :-)
14:16 cjb (feeling much more comfortable today, though)
14:16 Gregorio in short I want to cover all the main features which are defined here: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/9.1.0#Features
14:16 not done pasting them in the XO camp page
14:17 did I hear right that Ed and team will come up with a name for each by Friday?
14:17 cjb Gregorio: (actually, I'm not sure what you were asking for from me -- could you clarify?)
14:18 edmcnierney My plan is to take a big whack at it on Friday (I have no appointments, and with the weather forecast I may stay home and wiki-whack all day).
14:18 Gregorio cjb I just wanted to give you a chance to set the debate and discussion on XO camp in general because you wanted more time last week and we doubled the time allotted for you and michael
14:18 cjb oh, and Michael doesn't seem to be here, I see
14:19 yamaplos I really meed to talk to you guys about inviting Sur people - some might need passport, visa, (time & $$$) and no use trying if they're not inviting
14:19 dsaxena wants to note that he is not feeling terribly motivated to work on slides for XOCamp until he knows for sure he'll be there
14:19 edmcnierney Oh - sorry - Michael mentioned that he had an unexpected friend in town and was having lunch with him.
14:19 I would encourage everyone to prepare 9.1 work for XOCamp whether they're here or not.
14:20 Gregorio one moment, let me see if I can get SJ....
14:21 edmcnierney I was wondering why Michael was explaining his lunch plans to me in more detail than usual...
14:21 Gregorio I think he is coming
14:22 cjb maybe we should slide this topic to the end?
14:22 Gregorio for my part of XO camp, I'm trying to get a set of meetings defined and posted with schedules ASAP
14:23 dsd_ any idea any news on travel funding?
14:23 yamaplos No prob to leave it to the end, we already did that on Sunday and it didn't happen, but I will be hurt in my love over and over and not complain ;-(
14:23 cjb we could talk about travel funding without Michael
14:23 Gregorio all right, SJ is trying to get booted up, I'll tell him he has more time and we can move on for now
14:24 next up is: 45 minutes - 9.1.0 status. Schedule review, status of major features, page updates and roadmap scrub status.
14:24 edmcnierney dsd_: I am still trying to get firm commitments for OLPC staff (employees/contractors active and continuing) travel budget.  I don't have funds for any more than that (if even that much), and I know there's no interest in any "fundraising" under an OLPC umbrella.
14:24 Gregorio I think we covered schedule
14:24 dsd_ ok
14:24 edmcnierney I think there was a suggestion last time to work with Bernie on voluntary coordination, and I haven't heard anything better.
14:25 cjb ok. so we probably want to do any fundraising under sugarlabs.
14:25 yamaplos dsd, ed: same here for volunteers
14:25 edmcnierney cjb: I think actually there was a similar problem with an official "Sugar Labs" appeal.
14:25 cjb edmcnierney: what kind of problem?
14:25 edmcnierney "Bernie" seemed to be a vehicle outside both organizations.
14:25 Gregorio man do I miss in person meetings with a gavel! :-)
14:26 youre started, go ahead on XO camp
14:26 edmcnierney cjb: Not sure - I think c_scott simply reported that it existed, and I didn't ask.
14:26 Gregorio let me know when you are done and I'll move on then
14:26 cjb huh, okay.  Bernie is on the Sugar Labs board, so I don't understand the last comment.
14:26 oh!
14:27 yamaplos cjd and I am ahired gun for OLE, but things are never that simple here
14:27 sorry cjb:
14:27 cjb this isn't really ontopic, but I think sugarlabs got their donation infrastructure set up this week, through the software freedom conservancy:  http://sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Labs/Donate
14:27 _sj_ catching up
14:28 cjb so I think things should go simpler.  people interested in fundraising for xocamp should go bring it up on the sugar lists, sounds like.
14:28 _sj_ do we have a full list of devs that olpc is covering?
14:28 bemasc Ok, great.  Sugarlabs will handle donations and reimbursements for participants not funded by OLPC. great.
14:28 _sj_ and that fedora is covering?
14:29 bemasc, via the donate page?  is there an option other than sending a check now?
14:29 dsaxena Gregorio: I have to leave due to an appointment.. :( Status for power stuff is that I believe we are at 700-800ms for resume to userspace, but need to fix a timekeeping bug to get exact data. I will start looking at the more interesting problems of parallelizing some kernel bits next. I will also take a look at and comment on all 9.1 kernel bugs in next week.
14:29 erikg dsaxena: please ping me when you're available.  i want to discuss compcache.
14:29 edmcnierney dsaxena: Great - thanks.
14:29 dsaxena erikg: ok, will do
14:29 yamaplos we had a sort of wiki page fragmente before for dealing with donation requests / offers, housing and such that got rolled over to SUgarcamp
14:29 bemasc _sj_: google checkout and paypal are also up now.
14:30 Gregorio thanks dsaxena will paste in to minutes
14:30 edmcnierney Guys, I think the donation process is great but let's try to stay on topic for this meeting.  Thanks.
14:30 Gregorio anything for the minutes on travel and donations?
14:30 bemasc wait... we used to be at 1400!? Did dsaxena do something huge?
14:30 Gregorio I can close it with some AIs if that helps
14:31 _sj_ I see that
14:31 Gregorio on schedule of events for XO camp my AI is to have a schedule with times and subjects before next wed.
14:31 cjb bemasc: yup, we were at ~1100 and he found the go-faster button
14:31 bemasc awesome!
14:31 edmcnierney I wouldn't want to make a statement on Sugar Lab's behalf, so we should confirm things first.
14:31 Gregorio then Ed and engineers add names and we have a technical plan in place
14:31 edmcnierney cjb: We just need two more of those buttons.
14:32 _sj_ and parallel times for the community track, but we're still refining topics
14:32 cjb _sj_: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XOCamp_2/Fundraising contains a list of travel funding request (should probably move over to the SL wiki)
14:32 edmcnierney: indeed!
14:32 Gregorio SJ, any progress on breaking out a "community" track?
14:32 I updated the page and made a place for that
14:32 edmcnierney cjb: We should indeed move that over to SL wiki before I get whacked on the head again...
14:32 Gregorio http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XOca[…]2#Community_Track
14:33 Ai to move that URL?
14:33 _sj_ yes
14:33 we'll have a schedule for wed but need more proposals /
14:33 Gregorio any takers (maybe a sugar aware person)?
14:33 edmcnierney cjb, can you own the wiki move?
14:33 _sj_ for the people to present.
14:33 [for transwikiing, it would be great to have a process in place to preserv history]
14:34 cjb I can, or perhaps _sj_ if he's working on community travel stuff
14:34 edmcnierney Either's fine with me.
14:34 eben _sj_: good point
14:34 _sj_ I can move it.  I'll post the history on the talk page
14:34 cjb _sj_: thanks!
14:35 yamaplos Look, I'll own the community thing ITMYH, but I need to have a straight answer about the travel funds issues. please?
14:35 Gregorio on technical topics, I will have a slot for every OLPC 9.1.0 feature
14:35 _sj_ so, presentations specifically on community issues, some following onto the fedora community track, are welcome
14:35 cjb yamaplos: I think you just got a straight answer
14:35 yamaplos: OLPC might be able to fund its own employees, and isn't able to fund anyone else
14:35 _sj_ yama, we don't have commitments for travel funds outside its employees atm
14:35 yamaplos oh!
14:36 cjb yamaplos: (at least, that's what I think Ed just said)
14:36 edmcnierney yamaplos: Yes, that's correct - sorry if that wasn't clear.
14:36 yamaplos lookit
14:36 cjb yamaplos: scroll up a bit :)
14:36 Gregorio I'll paste that in the minutes
14:36 edmcnierney (although I thought it was, and is just the same thing I've been saying for several weeks)
14:36 _sj_ so funding where needed will have to come from other sources
14:36 yamaplos I saw that.  I still hoped you saw the role of the community in this game
14:36 Gotcha!
14:37 Gregorio on XO camp schedule of talks
14:37 _sj_ this isn't community vs. software development, it is employees vs all the other people doing important relevant things
14:37 edmcnierney I am again expecting to set up at least modest technical support to help remote participants.  Money's tight all over.
14:37 Gregorio I plan to have a slot for every 9.1.0 feature
14:37 yamaplos OK, guys, gotta go.  Just wished I had had that clearer before, but now it's in writing.
14:37 Sorry wasting your time
14:37 _sj_ what about "the features left on the floor"
14:37 cjb yamaplos: I think it's clear that if we can't even fund our own employees, there's no choice here :)
14:37 Gregorio I'll also have a slot for "user requirement" (technical but it gives me a chance to tell you what I want to happen :-)
14:38 beyond that I'm thinking we could use a slot on Sugar, focusing on test, development, timing, etc
14:38 yamaplos We could discuss it.  So far I've met rather empty offers even for that, but now it's clear, so no prob, man
14:38 Gregorio erikos you still here?
14:38 marcopg Gregorio: he was here a couple of mins ago, so I think so
14:38 cjb edmcnierney: I'm wincing at the "again"; I haven't seen any credible attempts at remote participation yet.
14:39 yamaplos I'm not jumping the boat, I just gotta deliver this project today, and obviously me staying in this meeting won't make a difference for this issue, which is my only reason I am sacrificing vital work time.  Love you all
14:39 Gregorio any sugar personb can help here: how about a sugar 0.83/.84 synching with 9.1.0 meeting?
14:39 maybe a review of features and bug fixes for QA or a status and plan for prioritizing bugs in the last 6 weeks of development?
14:39 edmcnierney cjb: Well, in this case "again" refers to the original effort to do so for this event when it was scheduled for November.
14:39 c_scott (sugarlabs fundraising problem: as of last i checked, SL didn't have a way to earmark donated funds, which complicates their setting up a travel-specific scholarship fund)
14:39 xobot c_scott: by the way, homunq told me to tell you 'aa and I are wondering if there is any news on xocamp travel scholarship fundraising.' 8 days, 23 hours, 4 minutes and 6 seconds ago (on Mon Dec  8 22:34:45 2008)
14:40 marcopg Gregorio: you mean a meeting to do the syncing?
14:40 edmcnierney cjb: Unfortunately, a moderate amount of research work has produced (IMHO) a variety of flawed approaches of varying complexity.
14:40 I'm planning another whack at it over the Christmas holidays.
14:40 marcopg c_scott: should have it now
14:40 Gregorio I think we should take the time to sit together and make sure we know how we will test, triage and resolve bugs
14:40 does that make sense?
14:41 marcopg Gregorio: sure
14:41 edmcnierney Gregorio: You mean as a session at XOCamp?
14:41 Gregorio right
14:41 c_scott marcopg: no, there's still no obvious way to do it.  (can you provide a URL?)
14:41 edmcnierney Sure, sounds good to me.  We should get as many folks on the same page as possible.
14:42 marcopg c_scott: probably, wait
14:42 c_scott marcopg: oh, nevermind, i found it
14:42 'donate' from the SL home page.  (that link could stand to be higher up!)
14:42 Gregorio all right, I think all other propsals will drop but we may have time for one or two more if they are important and we have a presenter
14:42 edmcnierney Sounds good
14:43 Gregorio please re-read the list and let me know if anything in section 3.4 should move up and get a slot: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XOca[…]2#Technical_Track
14:43 e.g. I would love to see a performance optimization meeting, but not sure I have the time to manage it....
14:43 I'll leave that in the notes
14:44 and ready to move on to 9.1.0 page review
14:44 cjb Gregorio: sugar performance optimization?
14:44 Gregorio last call for XO camp comments or questions....
14:44 bemasc I think it might be good to leave a block at XO camp for spontaneous stuff
14:44 Gregorio re: cjb see recent thread on performance on devel and let me know if that counts as sugar or not
14:44 good idea bemasc
14:45 I'll add free time once I know how much we need for 9.1.0 features
14:45 bemasc a lightning-talk session or similar, perhaps, for people with small presentations/demos to use
14:45 Gregorio or lightning talks
14:45 last call on XO camp....
14:45 cjb looks good to me
14:45 edmcnierney ship it
14:45 cjb I'm not sure whether people want to hear our Uruguay talk again
14:46 (3.1.2)
14:46 everyone at Sugarcamp heard it already
14:46 Gregorio will remove uruguay (I missed the original so any links appreciated)
14:46 edmcnierney cjb; I'd like to keep that on the radar if possible - you learned some good stuff.
14:46 Gregorio OK, I'll keep it
14:47 I can haranmgue the team about the customer is always right for an hour or a day, whatever is needed, so we can leave that somewhat flexible  :-)
14:47 edmcnierney Let's see how it goes, assuming that there is little preparation needed should we want to do it again.
14:47 Gregorio last, last call on XO camp....
14:47 cjb ok.
14:47 Gregorio next up is: 45 minutes - 9.1.0 status. Schedule review, status of major features, page updates and roadmap scrub status.
14:48 see: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/9.1.0
14:48 we're going to update the schedule this week per earlier discussion
14:48 dsd_ joyride is bordering on usability again
14:48 Gregorio good to know
14:49 I think we should set a target for when we move it to "build of the week" status like we did last time
14:49 dsd_ i think we can do that soon
14:49 Gregorio anyway, Ed then me then Joe gets next stab at schedule (any other suggestions plug them in somewhere)
14:49 edmcnierney Right
14:49 Gregorio I want to dig in to the requirements for a moment
14:50 I listed the features: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/9.1.0#Features
14:50 joef correct
14:50 Gregorio you can also see them on the new roadmap page via query
14:50 power work seems under control
14:51 fedora apps also moving ahead
14:51 rebase on Fedora 10 has not had a lot of movement
14:51 but I can poke that soon
14:51 its section #2 that I am most worried about
14:51 bemasc Gregorio: there's a pretty big gap between "under control" and "likely to hit the listed targets".  Some of the features on the Improved_battery_life page seem very reasonable, and some are just about impossible.
14:52 Gregorio hmm on battery life we met and cjb said it was all doable and on its way....
14:52 cjb bemasc: go on?
14:52 Gregorio minutes and action items on that posted to devel
14:52 pgf maybe cjb was delirious with the flu
14:52 bemasc ok.  I defer entirely to cjb.  I expect great progress.  I'm just saying that e.g. flicker-free resume may not even be possible with this hardware.
14:52 erikg bemasc: ?
14:53 edmcnierney bemasc: That's not a power problem, that's a human interface problem ;)
14:53 erikg time to get your eyes downgraded
14:53 to a less sensitive model
14:53 dsd_ bemasc: flickering resume is a regression.. it used to work ok
14:53 bemasc edmcnierney: ok, but it's on http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Feat[…]oved_battery_life
14:53 cjb bemasc: I don't believe that yet.  Mitch and Deepak offered to work on it together -- all I can do is hope they come up with something.  And, what dsd_ said.
14:53 Gregorio OK, dig in to the detail on the power thread on devel please or start a new one or add comments and info on the feature page
14:53 bemasc ok
14:54 Gregorio on section 2, image customization, faster imaging, signing key stuff and time base lease managementy
14:54 that is the biggest ticket item in some ways
14:54 edmcnierney I think what is important here is that the items on the "better power management" list are understood, under discussion, and are being addressed.  That doesn't mean they'll all make it in, but we're actually making progress on them.
14:55 ("We're", in this case, meaning a plural group of people that does not include me)
14:55 cjb Yeah.  It means that we actually assigned people to work on each of those things, and they know they're on the hook for them :)
14:55 bemasc great.
14:55 Gregorio see the page for who is doing what
14:56 and close your AIs from the power meeting before I ping you for status on the list again....
14:56 on to section 2, image customization, faster imaging, signing key stuff and time base lease managementy
14:56 I think its all well defined but I don't have good engineering engagement
14:56 I'll parse it in steps unless someone wants to step up (cscott?)
14:56 c_scott
14:57 OK, one step at a time
14:57 I could use an ack that the list of features is a good target set, includes the main points and is achievable
14:57 they all work together to some degree
14:58 I have an ack from the customers (ethiopia, Peru and others)
14:58 just need to confirm that we can deliver the whole paackage
14:58 erikg i'm a bit vague on what you're describing
14:58 as far as what 'the whole package' is
14:58 Gregorio point 2 here: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/9.1.0#Features
14:58 edmcnierney Gregorio: I probably need to own the first step of this in my wiki review.  We've had some good discussions about what customers need, what we think we can do, etc., and I think I need to help you ensure that the requirements are well and accurately described.  We understand the concepts but perhaps not the details.
14:58 erikg Gregorio: thank you
14:58 Gregorio in terms of the whole package, let me say it this way
14:59 make an XO the way you like it (RPMs, languages, config files, content etc.) then click here and it clones that image and blasts (USB wireless multicast, XS or whatever) on to 10K XOs, signed, sealed and delivered
14:59 erikg Gregorio: at present we can get most of the desired functionalities described there.  it's a matter of educating our deployments in how to use them, and testing those functionalities which are newer (NANDBlaster)
15:00 Gregorio: that's fine... but it only will work if you get rid of the security system
15:00 edmcnierney Gregorio: It would be nice if OFW also wired the payment for the machines...
15:00 cjb erikg: that's why he said "signed" :)
15:00 Gregorio I think I'm hearing the Erikos wants to be a lead on this....
15:00 erikg cjb: :)
15:00 Gregorio sorry erikg
15:00 erikg oh man that keeps happening
15:00 nw
15:00 dsd_ cloning an XO has always been dodgy ground, because we dont have a specification of the per-XO stuff that gets created on first boot. you will need proper engineering time to solve this, and i dont have any immediate ideas how you would do it cleanly
15:01 erikg getting that specification would be quite useful
15:01 cjb yes, we've tried to strongly discourage that
15:01 Gregorio read the requirements, write down how they are addressed and ask any questions on the wiki page or on list
15:01 dsd_ my suggestion would be to continue expanding the current customisation approach, which works very well for the things it lets you do
15:01 Gregorio please
15:01 erikg ok
15:01 edmcnierney Gregorio: I'm suggesting I help do that - these are the kinds of "details" we need to flush out.
15:02 erikg dsd_: we can expand it 'as far as possible' if we can produce a method to go from a given system -> a 'clean' system
15:02 as far as possible within, say, the bounds of a given set of distributions
15:02 Gregorio edmcnierney: you;re on, I especially need someone to keep me honest. Since I edit the priority and "target 9.1" fields I may try to pack in a lot of stuff
15:02 you need to push back if its not doable or not clear
15:02 otherwise I take erikg's comments that its done literally and start selling it...
15:03 which puts you all on the spot to work over Xmas
15:03 pgf wonders if, with partitions, we could use unionfs and keep the distributed image pristine.
15:03 erikg pgf: yes.   untested.
15:03 Gregorio so AI is for Ed (and anyone else) to review set of features in 9.1.0 page, comment if anything is missing or if anything should not be on that list
15:03 erikg Mitch has been interested in things like that
15:03 Gregorio OK?
15:04 erikg Linutop does something similar
15:04 although i somewhat doubt they're using unionfs
15:05 Gregorio AI is for edmcnierney  (and anyone else) to review set of features in 9.1.0 page, comment if anything is missing or if anything should not be on that list
15:05 OK?
15:05 edmcnierney ok
15:05 Gregorio then maybe a few words on localization and other 9.1.0 page sections before we talk trac
15:05 localization section needs work
15:06 its close with SCIM
15:06 edmcnierney We should ask unmadindu to give it the once-over
15:06 Gregorio I think t hat is the only must have piece so far
15:06 I'm inclined to add Better Arabic and RTL
15:06 unmadindu SCIM is almost ready, except for etoys and Scratch, which refuse to take input
15:07 cjb huh, I wonder why
15:07 unmadindu plans on pushing some patches to Rainbow tomorrow
15:07 Gregorio can you put links to the code, example test cases, languages supported and any other documentation on SCIM on the feature page?
15:07 unmadindu Gregorio: ok, will do
15:07 Gregorio thanks
15:08 the only other piece on language which I think is must have is Arabic and RTL
15:08 any objections to making those Priority 1 target 9.1.0 features?
15:08 cjb unmadindu: (you know we turned off rainbow prefork recently, right?)
15:09 unmadindu cjb: yeah, I'm doing the testing on recent joyrides..
15:09 Gregorio I'll put arabic proposal in the minutes and you can comment + or - later
15:09 cjb unmadindu: ok, interesting that it's still messing it up despite prefork being off
15:09 Gregorio other parts of the 9.1.0 page needing work are: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/9.1.0#Activities
15:09 morgs
15:09 are you around?
15:10 morgs Gregorio: hi
15:10 unmadindu cjb: I did a lot of workaround initially to get around prefork, the problem now is that I have to take care of those once again (disable those) ;)
15:10 Gregorio I could use help listing the target activities, finding out who will test, keeping in touch with the maintainer etc.
15:10 I started the thread but the page didn't come out quite as nice as I had hoped
15:10 cjb unmadindu: :)
15:10 Gregorio can you take some of that work?
15:10 we're about 3 months ahead of where we were in 8.2.0 :-)
15:11 morgs Gregorio: mchua has all the maintainer contact details from me... I'll see what I can do but I don't know what you want to ship, seeing as OLPC consistently doesn't want to support activities.
15:11 Gregorio page is: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/9.1.0#Activities
15:11 cjb oh yes, mchua made a list of all activity maintainers recently
15:11 Gregorio: so you should ask her for that
15:11 Gregorio my goal is a list of tested, quality activities which we can choose from
15:12 OK, I can get that from mchua, but I could use help tracking and managing the communication
15:12 morgs Gregorio: mchua mentioned something about activity testing. I don't know what the QA team is doing though.
15:12 edmcnierney Why don't we start with what mchua has, then?
15:12 Gregorio my idea is to have a list on this page which shows which ones we know work with 9.1.0 and what their status is
15:13 all right, not hearing anyone really excited :-( I'll work with Mel
15:13 edmcnierney Well, we need to figure out how to define "we know work"...
15:13 Gregorio this can be a fun area so ping me if you can help
15:13 edmcnierney But you can talk to mchua about that.
15:13 Gregorio btw are we breaking all activities APIs again?
15:13 any documentation on that available?
15:13 what happened to the guy (forget his name) who was documenting APIs?
15:14 morgs Gregorio: I have no idea why you say "breaking all activities APIs". We've never done that.
15:14 edmcnierney Gregorio: Well, WE won't ;) - but I have not heard discussion about incompatible API changes.
15:14 morgs There are activities which ran on 62x which run on 767.
15:14 Gregorio sorry to harsh
15:14 too harsh
15:14 many activities had to be rewritten for 8.2 (maybe due to rainbow)
15:14 cjb Gregorio: (we ended his contract)
15:15 Gregorio I hear you, we just couldn't say which ones without testing
15:15 would be nice to have some code inspection level validation that activities which work in 767 will work in 9.1.0
15:15 edmcnierney We should be encouraging Activity authors to lead that effort.
15:16 Gregorio I'll leave it at that for now, should we add an activity status and tracking item to next weeks agenda or just chip away at it on e-mail?
15:17 eben Do we have specific reason to believe that some activities might be broken?  It seems like all new effort is focused at a lower level for 9.1
15:17 cjb eben: don't think so
15:17 morgs Gregorio: the Sugar API stability policy is documented at http://sugarlabs.org/go/Develo[…]ntTeam/API_policy
15:17 Gregorio I like the sound of that!
15:17 pgf i certainly hope we don't break anything unnecessarily.
15:17 eben That is....regression testing is something that activity developers should be doing, but unless we know/suspect that we broke something, there's nothing we need to do there.
15:18 Right, Sugarlabs takes this very seriously.
15:18 Gregorio great, that's a lot more encouraging than the last time we went over this ~5 months ago
15:18 bemasc Automatic power management (not on by default in 8.2) will probably break some things.
15:18 Gregorio I'll read up on the URL and put it  the minutes
15:18 dsd_ some activities are already broken for 9.1
15:19 APIs have changed
15:19 i already did the work to split up the wiki pages
15:19 cjb bemasc: we can work out what those activities are and bypass power management for them, though
15:19 Gregorio hmm, I thought power would not break any activities, need to re-read the requirements....
15:19 out of time on 9.1.0 page now, should move on to trac
15:20 bemasc cjb: sure... by modifying the activities.  It's a small API change.
15:20 Gregorio do we need a slot for activity discussion next week? or maybe a person to document or start thread
15:20 dsd_ the 8.2 activities that I know of that wont work on 9.1 are: Browse, Read, Record, probably more to come
15:20 Gregorio ouch!
15:20 cjb bemasc: can you think of any that would break if treat audio or video use as not-idleness?
15:20 s/if/if we/
15:21 bemasc cjb: depends on whether we get kernel wakeups.
15:21 Gregorio last call for votes on activity discussion next week...
15:22 cjb bemasc: that'd be an API rather than automatic, for 9.1
15:22 (you can ask for one)
15:22 Gregorio or name to start thread on power + activity question or thread on activity APIs
15:22 come on, someone can give me a + or - on whether they want to dig in to this more.....
15:23 next week
15:23 cjl Gregorio: Making sure tha Browse, Read and Record work in 9.1 seems pretty impt.
15:23 Gregorio I'll take that as a + :-)
15:23 dsd_ they do, you just need new versions
15:23 Gregorio will add to agenda
15:23 cjl +++
15:23 dsd_ activity updater will take care of it
15:23 Gregorio last items for today: Trac conventions then AI review and agenda for next week
15:23 20 minutes - Trac scrub and conventions review.
15:24 edmcnierney: did you have any luck with M_stone on setting the conventions?
15:24 edmcnierney No - still on our radar, but I haven't done that yet.  He and I have not forgotten.  We spent an hour or so on existing setup, mainly to educate me.
15:25 Gregorio OK, its already on your AI list
15:25 edmcnierney I will soon need input from other folks on what works for them, too.
15:25 Gregorio we can spend 20 minutes now talking about suggestions for how to do it, if there is interest
15:26 5 minutes bio break then debate trac?
15:26 or call it a day?
15:26 edmcnierney I don't think it's helpful to have that discussion yet - sorry, but I'd rather be prepared for it.
15:26 pgf is bio scheduled for 9.1?  i don't see it on the roadmap.
15:27 joef call it a day! I suggest to have a special meeting on trac - going over all its fields
15:27 edmcnierney Is it a customer requirement?
15:28 Gregorio :-) I plan to get some port-a-johns from irobot so you can code and use the bathroom without ever leavng your chair
15:28 so no bio breaks planned
15:29 agenda for next week: XO camp update, 9.1.0 status including activity tracking, sugar 0.84 and 9.1.0 synchronization
15:29 and trac status
15:29 OK?
15:30 do we really need two hours?
15:31 that's it, will put it in the minutes, reply with comments as needed
15:31 word of the week?
15:31 I have a wrinkle here, challenge is to use the word of the week in a public e-mail before the next meeting
15:32 here's mine: zeugma
15:32 sorry its got greek etymology
15:33 thanks all
15:33 80 days until release!
15:33 dsd_ Gregorio: i posted some comments on the Image_customization page for you
15:33 Gregorio dsd_ thanks
15:34 everyone, please hack away at those top features
15:34 bye
15:35 cjl Synechodoche
15:35 edmcnierney My zeugma's attacking my dogma.
15:36 Your synecdoche has an echo in it.
15:36 cjl Well, that is only part of it, but it does represent the whole.
16:19 lfaraone #endmeetng
16:19 #endmeeting

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