| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 19:06 |
mchua |
and send to the testing ml after |
| 19:06 |
joachimp |
hmm, eek, 278MB avai.l |
| 19:06 |
lfaraone |
#topic NANDBlaster |
| 19:06 |
|
Any comments/questions about it? |
| 19:07 |
|
No? |
| 19:07 |
Mitch_Bradley |
a backport wouldn't help, because that would have to be signed too. Might as well sign the firmware |
| 19:07 |
garycmartin |
lfaraone: Its just for clean installs or cloning, right? |
| 19:07 |
lfaraone |
garycmartin: Yep. |
| 19:08 |
|
garycmartin: Olpc-update is a userland tool, this is before linux is even loaded. |
| 19:08 |
Mitch_Bradley |
the nandblaster can be configured to preserve the user partition if the NAND is partitioned |
| 19:08 |
m_stone |
garycmartin: (we hope that the partioning support will one day be useful for user-data-preserving updates) |
| 19:08 |
lfaraone |
Mitch_Bradley: Are we doing partitioning in NAND currently? |
| 19:08 |
m_stone |
but that's not yet ready to test, I think. |
| 19:08 |
garycmartin |
Mitch_Bradley: I have 3 XOs here, can use 1 for sending and 2 for receiving. |
| 19:08 |
Mitch_Bradley |
garycmartin: yes |
| 19:08 |
joachimp |
just checking, is it now safe to use ext3 for backing up my home dir? |
| 19:09 |
lfaraone |
joachimp: onto flash? ext3 isn't the best thing for NAND systems. |
| 19:09 |
joachimp |
just temp, any other ideas, jffs? |
| 19:09 |
lfaraone |
joachimp: tarballs work on any FS |
| 19:10 |
garycmartin |
Mitch_Bradley: what measures of RF environment do you need? |
| 19:10 |
joachimp |
yeah, i guess I could have done that... |
| 19:10 |
Mitch_Bradley |
don't know what you mean |
| 19:10 |
garycmartin |
Mitch_Bradley: (have about 8-12 active AP visible from my location) |
| 19:11 |
lfaraone |
Mitch_Bradley: can this be turned into a userland tool to work with the active antenna on an XS? |
| 19:11 |
joachimp |
I've just had so many vfats fail on me, and tar anything can't withstand that... |
| 19:11 |
Mitch_Bradley |
lfaraone: in principle it could be, but the AA is not a product, so I don't see what use that is for now |
| 19:11 |
lfaraone |
Mitch_Bradley: well, I have a few AAs (two) around. |
| 19:11 |
m_stone |
Mitch_Bradley: I think garycmartin is asking whether he should try, in some fashion, to measure issues like frame loss rates, the bandwidth available on the channels being used, etc. |
| 19:12 |
Mitch_Bradley |
well, I'm not interested in spending time on something that is not available |
| 19:12 |
m_stone |
or to perform the test under conditions which vary those parameters, e.g. by running a rate-limited file transfer between two other computers on the same channel. |
| 19:12 |
joachimp |
If NANDblaster is one directional, how do the clients conferm that they have recived the full payload? |
| 19:12 |
Mitch_Bradley |
I'd be interested to know aggregate data rates as reported by the test, and the number of passes, as a function of RF congestion |
| 19:12 |
garycmartin |
Mitch_Bradley: When testing, pass/fail reports would be better for you if you knew how bad the RF environment was (fails in very noisy environments would be expected, and we could have an idea what a 'noisy RF environment' might be) |
| 19:13 |
m_stone |
garycmartin: well, perhaps a first question is "does it ever fail?" |
| 19:13 |
Mitch_Bradley |
garycmartin: agreed. If you have any suggestions for how to quantify that, please suggest. |
| 19:13 |
m_stone |
(in your test) |
| 19:13 |
Mitch_Bradley |
joachimp: the sender sends over and over with error correction packets. The receiver waits until it gets a complete set. |
| 19:14 |
joachimp |
and then visual conf on the client, that the flash starts? |
| 19:15 |
Mitch_Bradley |
yes |
| 19:16 |
garycmartin |
Want us to use the new 'f'series firmware just anounce right? |
| 19:16 |
Mitch_Bradley |
but it has to write partial data to the flash before it gets a complete set, because the RAM isn't big enough |
| 19:16 |
|
use Q2E24 |
| 19:17 |
garycmartin |
Hmmm, I see q2e23 and then jumps to q2f01 |
| 19:18 |
Mitch_Bradley |
thats because this meeting has prevented me from finishing the crank turn on e24 |
| 19:18 |
garycmartin |
(go/Firmware on wiki) |
| 19:18 |
joachimp |
And the client needs <size of image file> free space to recive? |
| 19:18 |
garycmartin |
Mitch_Bradley: :-) |
| 19:18 |
|
joachimp: the client is WIPED... |
| 19:18 |
Mitch_Bradley |
the client uses the NAND to hold intermediate results |
| 19:19 |
garycmartin |
Ah, good point |
| 19:19 |
m_stone |
garycmartin: so I presume that you're going to write up the actual test case you intend to perform somewhere. |
| 19:19 |
|
garycmartin: where is that going to go? |
| 19:19 |
joachimp |
so, failure, is not an option... |
| 19:19 |
Mitch_Bradley |
then when complete, it overwrites the intermediate space with the error-corrected data |
| 19:19 |
|
this is intended for use in deployments where they want to reimage thousands of machines |
| 19:19 |
lfaraone |
Mitch_Bradley: why was f01 a new seriess? |
| 19:20 |
Mitch_Bradley |
smithbone refactored the EC code |
| 19:20 |
m_stone |
(significantly) |
| 19:20 |
|
(or so I'm told) |
| 19:20 |
joachimp |
I think should be able to get access to at least 4 XOs for testing this in various RF eviroments |
| 19:20 |
smithbone |
yep. |
| 19:20 |
lfaraone |
I can test about... 10 XOs? |
| 19:21 |
smithbone |
2 new build systems and large restructure of the ec code. |
| 19:21 |
Mitch_Bradley |
it would be interesting to see how antenna orientation affects results |
| 19:21 |
|
and also distance from the sender |
| 19:21 |
m_stone |
Mitch_Bradley: and, in general, since this is a big firmware update, it would be good to rerun the smoketest, right? |
| 19:21 |
Mitch_Bradley |
yes |
| 19:21 |
|
although E24 is not such a big update |
| 19:22 |
|
smoketest needed more on F01 than on E24 |
| 19:22 |
garycmartin |
m_stone: hmm, I'd usually run and take notes on the test locally. Post to dev (or testing I guess) and only when it stops bouncing (i.e respond to query/requests), would I consider writing it up. The wiki is too full of junk that all the good stuff is already too hard to find. |
| 19:22 |
m_stone |
garycmartin: fine by me; I had nothing special in mind; I just wanted to know where to look. |
| 19:23 |
joachimp |
Q2E24? |
| 19:24 |
Mitch_Bradley |
lord, it's hard to do a release when lots of people are asking questions |
| 19:24 |
joachimp |
sorry about that |
| 19:25 |
garycmartin |
joachimp: I see something in dev.laptop.org/pub/firmware/q2e24 but lets wait for Mitch_Bradley :-) |
| 19:26 |
m_stone |
fyi, for people working on resurrecting [[Friends in Testing]], I think that 'olpc-update 8.2.1-790' will now work. (though you'll get an unsigned build very very much like 8.2-767') |
| 19:27 |
joachimp |
m_stone: updating now, thanks |
| 19:28 |
Mitch_Bradley |
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_Firmware_q2e24 |
| 19:30 |
m_stone |
greebo: do you have any questions? |
| 19:31 |
greebo |
m_stone, no, we'll get into testing (and repeat the videochat testing in particular) next Saturday. I'll have to backread this channel in a few hours as I have to run out the door |
| 19:31 |
m_stone |
cool; I can't wait to see what you find! |
| 19:33 |
garycmartin |
Mitch_Bradley: thanks Mitch, will test q2e24 here and will email report to dev/testing. |
| 19:33 |
Mitch_Bradley |
copy wmb laptop.org on the report |
| 19:36 |
garycmartin |
blast. Just remembered one of the XOs is not allowed a dev key so I'm locked out of OFW. |
| 19:36 |
m_stone |
? |
| 19:36 |
Mitch_Bradley |
not allowed? |
| 19:37 |
garycmartin |
m_stone: it reports it's UUID does not match your records and tells me to contact help@... I've been speaking with adam a month or so on this now I guess. |
| 19:39 |
Mitch_Bradley |
oh, it's one of those where Quanta botched the records after pulling it out during FQA |
| 19:39 |
garycmartin |
The serial number written on the machine (lable inside battery compartment) does not match the serial number in firmware. It looks like a simple typo (last 2 numbers are wrong). I've tried the auth server with both versions but still get thu UUID is incorrect error. |
| 19:40 |
m_stone |
Mitch_Bradley: perhaps he should send mail to scott? |
| 19:40 |
|
(Scott wrangles that database) |
| 19:40 |
Mitch_Bradley |
m_stone: I suppose so |
| 19:40 |
garycmartin |
m_stone: :-) |
| 19:41 |
Mitch_Bradley |
and more questions before I leave? |
| 19:41 |
|
any |
| 19:41 |
m_stone |
garycmartin: we take devkeys not working Very Seriously. if you know any other people who've had problems, have them speak up. |
| 19:41 |
joachimp |
whats with the reboot to allow SPI writing? |
| 19:41 |
m_stone |
Mitch_Bradley: thanks for stopping by. :) |
| 19:41 |
Mitch_Bradley |
thanks for the testing help, folks |
| 19:42 |
joachimp |
joachimp: flashed here, it boots... I'll try out the multicast flash this weekend |
| 19:42 |
garycmartin |
m_stone: Thanks. No, it's just me here. |
| 19:43 |
|
m_stone: Mitch_Bradley thanks guys, I'll go do some testing (Colors! testing at the moment for Wade, Wacom tables support is great!) |
| 19:44 |
m_stone |
joachimp, garycmartin: thanks! |
| 19:44 |
joachimp |
m_stone: thanks for your hard work! |
| 19:44 |
|
you too Mitch_Bradley |
| 19:44 |
m_stone |
thank mchua, not me. :) |
| 19:44 |
joachimp |
Oh, I have! |
| 19:44 |
m_stone |
good. |
| 19:54 |
lfaraone |
#endmeeting |
| 18:00 |
mchua |
WOO! all righty, agenda is at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Comm[…]etings/2008-12-11 |
| 18:00 |
greebo |
"and just after the break..." |
| 18:00 |
mchua |
we have a very very short agenda |
| 18:00 |
|
# 1 Previous meeting's action items |
| 18:00 |
|
# 2 Activity test case reporting framework |
| 18:00 |
|
# 3 Testing Jams |
| 18:00 |
|
# 4 Joyride/8.2.1 Testing: The Challenge |
| 18:00 |
|
Any additions? |
| 18:01 |
|
I *think* the first 3 are going to be preeeetty fast, esp. since the wellington test group doesn't appear to be here today |
| 18:01 |
m_stone |
(hi folks!) |
| 18:01 |
mchua |
which is great, 'cause #4 is the cool part ;) |
| 18:01 |
greebo |
we are going to be kicking off aussie test groups in January, so that will hopefully help :) |
| 18:01 |
mchua |
m_stone: I'm glad you're here, I wanted to ping you specifically on #4 when it comes up |
| 18:01 |
|
greebo: <3 <3 <3 <3 |
| 18:01 |
|
local test groups make me *so* happy. |
| 18:01 |
|
hello, garycmartin! |
| 18:01 |
garycmartin |
Hi mchua |
| 18:02 |
mchua |
all right, if there's no new business, I'll start with # 1 Previous meeting's action items which can be summarized as "there weren't any new ones," and that's all |
| 18:02 |
|
...so that was fast. |
| 18:02 |
|
# 2 Activity test case reporting framework |
| 18:03 |
|
For the newcomers this week, we have (er, "had" - we'll see why shortly) a Big Project of testing all the G1G1 Activities before Dec. 25 |
| 18:03 |
|
which is rapidly approaching |
| 18:03 |
|
*but* I think we're in excellent shape to make it |
| 18:03 |
garycmartin |
mchua: where are the reports going? |
| 18:03 |
mchua |
(we've been doing lots of capacity building so far, and now we actually have the ability to test all those Activities, and the tools we need to do so - before we didn't) |
| 18:03 |
|
garycmartin: I'm glad you asked! |
| 18:04 |
|
(And I'm going to need help later tonight putting this on the http://wiki.laptop.org/go/G1G1_Activity_testing page) |
| 18:04 |
|
So we have our list of G1G1 Activities on that page, massive thanks to Caryl, skierpage, garycmartin, marcopg |
| 18:05 |
|
And we have a notion of what it means for them to be tested: that's two things, (1) smoke tested and (2) exploratory tested |
| 18:05 |
|
the first one's easy and fast, the second is more of a "I'm going to sit down and sprint for 2-4 hours on an Activity, maybe with a friend" thing |
| 18:06 |
|
Smoke testing test results are... ah, shoot, where's that link? they go into a google docs spreadsheet that Carl made. |
| 18:06 |
|
Let me see if I can pull that link up; if not I'll find it right after the meeting |
| 18:06 |
garycmartin |
(I have same issue finding that link) |
| 18:07 |
mchua |
http://spreadsheets.google.com[…]K_3IlsHBpwk1EFNcQ |
| 18:07 |
|
whoops, sorry, that's the spreadsheet not the form |
| 18:07 |
|
http://spreadsheets.google.com[…]K_3IlsHBpwk1EFNcQ |
| 18:07 |
|
that is the form |
| 18:07 |
|
#LINK http://spreadsheets.google.com[…]K_3IlsHBpwk1EFNcQ |
| 18:08 |
cjb |
ooh |
| 18:08 |
|
shiny |
| 18:08 |
joachimp |
nice |
| 18:08 |
mchua |
If that's filled out for an Activity, we call that Activity smoke tested, for the purpose of this exercise |
| 18:08 |
|
so mad props to Carl for that |
| 18:08 |
|
(Note that this isn't permanent testing infrastructure, necessarily; all of our tools and practices are new, so after Dec. 25 we're going to step back and go "okay, how did that work?" and maybe change some things) |
| 18:08 |
|
(but this is what we have for now) |
| 18:08 |
greebo |
ooh, shiny! |
| 18:09 |
garycmartin |
(need the link somewhere useful I'm on an XO and cant click/type it now) |
| 18:09 |
mchua |
can someone email garycmartin the link? |
| 18:09 |
greebo |
If I do a testing sprint saturday week (the 20th) is that too late? Want to give some notice |
| 18:09 |
mchua |
so for exploratory testing, that's much more difficult, but we have a notion of what it means for that to be "done," too |
| 18:09 |
|
greebo: YES |
| 18:09 |
cjb |
garycmartin: it's in the meeting minutes now, at least |
| 18:09 |
greebo |
k |
| 18:10 |
mchua |
greebo: that's agenda item #3: now that we have these things, it's time to hold test sprints and parties ;) |
| 18:10 |
|
greebo: so we'll get to that in just a sec |
| 18:10 |
garycmartin |
cjb: thanks |
| 18:10 |
mchua |
exploratory testing is going to go in the table at the bottom, here http://wiki.laptop.org/go/G1G1_Activity_testing |
| 18:10 |
|
#LINK http://wiki.laptop.org/go/G1G1[…]_testing#Progress |
| 18:11 |
garycmartin |
mchua: looking at page, so what actually goess in a fiels, pass/fail/yes/no? |
| 18:11 |
|
mchua: my name (as a tester) |
| 18:11 |
mchua |
so again, we know all of those steps, they're mostly contingent on creating test cases like http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Tests/Activity/Analyze and running them |
| 18:11 |
|
garycmartin: for exploratory testing? |
| 18:11 |
garycmartin |
mchua: (so we can count) |
| 18:11 |
greebo |
mchua, the g1g1 activities bundle, will it be the normal activities bundle too? |
| 18:11 |
garycmartin |
mchua: no smoke. |
| 18:13 |
greebo |
mchua, so you want us to fill in the collection form _and_ the progress table? wouldn't it be better for someone to collabte the feedback from the collection forms and fill in the progress table from there so there is a basic sanity check?? |
| 18:13 |
mchua |
garycmartin: ah, yes - okay, so maybe some things aren't 100% specified. I'd like wiki usernames, with wiki userpages containing emails, but we should write that down. |
| 18:13 |
|
greebo: I think the g1g1 activities bundles is the normal activities bundle, but I'm not sure i totally understand the question |
| 18:13 |
greebo |
k, just asking what you answered :) This work will be useful in the broad case, not just for G1G1 :) |
| 18:14 |
mchua |
greebo: right, that's why we're using semantic mediawiki for the test cases, so that the table on http://wiki.laptop.org/go/G1G1[…]_testing#Progress will automagically be filled in |
| 18:14 |
greebo |
ah, cool :) yay! |
| 18:14 |
mchua |
greebo: it *isn't* hooked completely up yet |
| 18:14 |
garycmartin |
mchua: aha, ok... |
| 18:15 |
|
mchua: the 'blank ness' make more sense now. |
| 18:15 |
mchua |
so here's what we need, in the next 24 hours (I'm going to be working on it after all of my meetings tonight, but *will need help*) |
| 18:15 |
|
1. we need to specify the form fields in http://spreadsheets.google.com[…]K_3IlsHBpwk1EFNcQ completely (as garycmartin pointed out, what exactly does "Tester" mean?) |
| 18:16 |
|
2. We need to find the semantic mediawiki testcases for every activity in http://wiki.laptop.org/go/G1G1[…]_testing#Progress and hook them into that table |
| 18:16 |
|
3. We need to, when applicable, edit/reformat the semantic mediawiki testcases for the Activities listed in http://wiki.laptop.org/go/G1G1[…]_testing#Progress so that they /can/ be hooked into that table |
| 18:17 |
|
and 4. we need to start running tests to fill all of these tables in ;) |
| 18:17 |
|
*none* of these need any sort of executive decision (though they may need some semantic mediawiki knowhow) |
| 18:17 |
cjl |
mchua for 2) start with http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Category:Test_cases ? |
| 18:17 |
garycmartin |
mchua: wow, actuall testing seems like the easy bit... |
| 18:17 |
mchua |
by that, I mean if you're the first one running through http://spreadsheets.google.com[…]K_3IlsHBpwk1EFNcQ, and you go "but i don't know what that term means!" decide it, write it down, and then put in your results |
| 18:17 |
|
garycmartin: in comparison, it is. ;) |
| 18:18 |
tabitha |
Hello |
| 18:18 |
mchua |
cjl: Yes. |
| 18:18 |
|
tabitha: hey! |
| 18:18 |
tabitha |
Wow you guys are talking about using the spreadsheet from NZ - awesome |
| 18:18 |
mchua |
tabitha: it's beautiful. |
| 18:18 |
|
tabitha: how do we get edit privs on the form field descriptions? |
| 18:19 |
tabitha |
Carl made it - think he gave someone edit rights, I just check |
| 18:19 |
greebo |
i can help with tests in about 4 hours, but can't do much with the rest |
| 18:19 |
mchua |
So, what I'd like to do is call for volunteers on 1, 2, and 3 for the next 24 hours - it doesn't mean you have to get it finished, but it does mean that I'll be looking to ping you in the next 24 hours asking if you can help work on it |
| 18:19 |
|
greebo: understood, that would be awesome |
| 18:19 |
tabitha |
yes - skierpage |
| 18:19 |
greebo |
ok, I'll volunteer for 1 and 4 |
| 18:19 |
joachimp |
okay, sure! |
| 18:19 |
greebo |
tabitha, hi! Pia here :) great to meet you :) |
| 18:20 |
tabitha |
http://spreadsheets.google.com[…]HBpwk1EFNcQ&hl=en |
| 18:20 |
joachimp |
I'll can help later tonight, and tomorrow in the early afternoon |
| 18:20 |
mchua |
awesome, anyone for a hand on 2 and 3? I'm going to look for skierpage, but am also willing to teach folks who want to learn the magic of semantic mediawiki (as much as I can, anyhow) |
| 18:20 |
|
joachimp: thanks! |
| 18:20 |
|
so I'd like to move on from that, since I think we are in good shape to get that ready for the next thing... |
| 18:21 |
|
# 3 Testing Jams |
| 18:21 |
|
So, I realized that I'm a *lousy* person to write this page: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Testing_Jam |
| 18:21 |
joachimp |
I'm pretty well versed in Wiki, but I don't know much about semantic mediawiki |
| 18:21 |
mchua |
joachimp: I'll make sure that you learn everything you need to know (and then some... ;) |
| 18:21 |
|
it's pretty sweet stuff |
| 18:22 |
|
though skierpage is totally the master here, and I learned most of what I know from him |
| 18:22 |
|
so anyway, testing jams, http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Testing_Jam |
| 18:22 |
|
I realized I'm a lousy person to write that page because I've run so many Jams by now I think it's second nature / obvious / all that sort of badness where I take the things you need to know and do for granted |
| 18:22 |
|
So |
| 18:23 |
|
what I'd like, actually, is to have people who *want* to run test sprints - but don't know how - write in that page as we teach them |
| 18:23 |
greebo |
mchua, I think tabitha is probably a great person to write up how to do a testing jam |
| 18:23 |
mchua |
by "we," I mean that I'm looking around the room and seeing people like tabitha who has been doing that for ages in Wellington, and the things they're doing there should be a model and an inspiration to us all. |
| 18:23 |
|
greebo: jinx! |
| 18:23 |
tabitha |
OMG I am being suggested to do stuff |
| 18:23 |
mchua |
greebo, I imagine you're already quite well-versed in this sort of thing as well :) |
| 18:24 |
greebo |
mchua, I'd be happy to update it once we do more of them :) |
| 18:24 |
cjb |
tabitha: I'll distract them, you run away! |
| 18:24 |
mchua |
joachimp, I hear you did something like this with repairs at SFSU |
| 18:24 |
|
(last week, was it?) |
| 18:24 |
greebo |
mchua, I've done testing personally, but most of our events have been intro days. keen to get into actual testing days, and the one of the 20th will kick it off nicely |
| 18:24 |
|
I'll announce today |
| 18:24 |
|
cjb, heh :) |
| 18:24 |
mchua |
greebo: YAY! thank you! |
| 18:25 |
joachimp |
mchua: saturday I'm tearing an XO apart for the group... |
| 18:25 |
mchua |
so the testing parties will be the big drivers, testers, and "end-users" of the test case reporting system we just discussed - when you run the first bunch of testing jams, there will be rough spots,and I want to make sure you've got the ability to blast through those rough spots when you hit them |
| 18:25 |
|
aa: hey, welcome! |
| 18:25 |
|
joachimp: excellent! |
| 18:25 |
aa |
mchua: hola! |
| 18:25 |
xobot |
aa: by the way, homunq_ told me to tell you '¿vas a pagar los dos mil dolares tu solo?' 1 day, 7 hours, 25 minutes and 18 seconds ago (on Wed Dec 10 17:59:07 2008) |
| 18:26 |
tabitha |
joachimp - tearing XO apart - that sounds like a good idea -we havent done that |
| 18:26 |
joachimp |
We are also going to help install some new keyboards... and a mass 767 upgrade for those that are lagging |
| 18:26 |
|
http://opensource.sfsu.edu/node/592 |
| 18:27 |
mchua |
aa: we were just discussing running testing parties, do you know anyone around that might want to hold a smallish test event in the next 2 weeks? |
| 18:27 |
greebo |
I pull them apart regularly :) Just did my first screen replacement yesterday :) |
| 18:27 |
|
http://pipka.org/blog/2008/12/[…]-screen-in-an-xo/ |
| 18:27 |
|
joachimp, awesome |
| 18:27 |
mchua |
ooh, joachimp and greebo, I have repair videos and docs to send to you then |
| 18:27 |
|
anyway |
| 18:27 |
|
testing parties |
| 18:27 |
joachimp |
greebo: great!, yes please mchua! |
| 18:28 |
aa |
mchua: you mean here in Uruguay? |
| 18:28 |
mchua |
aa: yes |
| 18:28 |
aa |
agh, that'll be difficult, with holidays coming up |
| 18:28 |
mchua |
as far as test parties go, what do we have? greebo, tabitha, joachimp, it would be awesome if you could hold test parties yourselves - even better if you could, since you know how to run these things already, find 1-3 people who could run a test party |
| 18:28 |
|
lfaraone: hey! we're looking for someone in DC to run a testing party |
| 18:28 |
|
lfaraone: any ideas? |
| 18:29 |
lfaraone |
mchua: heh. |
| 18:29 |
aa |
mchua: I can certainly talk about it with some people |
| 18:29 |
lfaraone |
mchua: I could do so, but who'd attend? |
| 18:29 |
tabitha |
mchua - what is a test party? we get together every saturday - we write up and send to testing@ list and enter bug tracs (respond to questions about them too) and update the spreadsheet we made and share with you - what else should we do? |
| 18:29 |
greebo |
I'll ask around. We could certainly do a party each in Melbourne, Sydney and Adelaide, as there are already communities developing there |
| 18:30 |
mchua |
aa: yeah, the holidays are coming up... this would be a "here, we're going to give you everything you need, instructions, and - if you arrange this with a bunch of us - be online for standby questions/help, if you can get (1) people and (2) XOs in a room together for 3 hours with music and food" |
| 18:30 |
|
greebo: <3 |
| 18:30 |
|
lfaraone: well, the hard work of the test party facilitator is really in getting (1) XOs, (2) people, and (3) food into Some Location with Internet Access |
| 18:30 |
greebo |
I actually have to run to another meeting. Is there anything else I can help with? |
| 18:30 |
mchua |
for 3 hours (my guess) |
| 18:30 |
lfaraone |
mchua: heh. 1 and 3 are _easy_! |
| 18:31 |
mchua |
lfaraone: #2, then :) |
| 18:31 |
lfaraone |
mchua: (I have plenty of spare lappys from repair centers, and nortel lets us use their conf rooms whenever) |
| 18:31 |
mchua |
greebo: yes - I'll catch up with you later, will send you an email when the logs go out? |
| 18:31 |
tabitha |
we have people (usually half dozen or more) and XOs (almost always enough for everyone) and food (as we are testing in a pub so we buy coffee and food there) and music (as live band plays in afternoons) |
| 18:31 |
mchua |
lfaraone: well then! think you can find people, or someone to find people, and a date? |
| 18:31 |
greebo |
k |
| 18:31 |
aa |
mchua: where can I find the tests we'll be running? |
| 18:31 |
tabitha |
internet access is currently me sharing my 3g aircard |
| 18:31 |
mchua |
tabitha: like I said, you folks are the model for what we're going to be doing in a lot of other places over the next 2 weeks :) |
| 18:31 |
tabitha |
we have every saturday as our date |
| 18:32 |
lfaraone |
mchua: sure. assuming I can find someone to find ppl. |
| 18:32 |
mchua |
aa: They're a bit earlier in the meeting logs - I'll send them out to you (and everyone) afterwards |
| 18:32 |
aa |
mchua: thanks! |
| 18:32 |
lfaraone |
mchua: what's the range of acceptable weekend dates for you? |
| 18:32 |
|
(is there a deadline?) |
| 18:32 |
mchua |
lfaraone: awesome; we'll keep working on that after the meeting... we want test results in by Dec. 25 |
| 18:32 |
|
lfaraone: so anytime between yesterday and then, really |
| 18:33 |
joachimp |
mchua: I will see if I can grab some more people on saturday for activity testing! |
| 18:33 |
mchua |
# ACTION so, lessee... people I to follow up with on running test parties... tabitha (who's already doing it, and it's a matter of getting Everyone Else To Do That Too, yay), joachimp, lfaraone, greebo, aa (for my reference later) |
| 18:33 |
|
#ACTION so, lessee... people I to follow up with on running test parties... tabitha (who's already doing it, and it's a matter of getting Everyone Else To Do That Too, yay), joachimp, lfaraone, greebo, aa (for my reference later) |
| 18:33 |
|
(whoops, no space) |
| 18:34 |
|
anything else, anyone else that might be interested or know folks who would be? gregdek, know any locals or Fedora folks we might tap for a short sprint? Should I ping you on that laterlike? |
| 18:34 |
|
I'd like to make sure we have time for # 4 Joyride/8.2.1 Testing: The Challenge |
| 18:34 |
gregdek |
mchua: Do you want this to be part of The Seventy? |
| 18:34 |
mchua |
because that's what's got me *really* revved up here, and I'd like to share the happiness ;) |
| 18:35 |
joachimp |
I <3 joyride (most of the time) :) |
| 18:35 |
tabitha |
If anyone wants to see how we do it - look at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Projects/WellyNZTesters and http://www.flickr.com/photos/t[…]2157610061263130/ for evidence |
| 18:35 |
mchua |
gregdek: let's give them 3 options for the short term: (1) run a test party, (2) joyride, and then (3) make your own other thing to do if you don't like any of the above two |
| 18:35 |
|
#LINK http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Projects/WellyNZTesters |
| 18:35 |
gregdek |
mchua: Sure. |
| 18:35 |
mchua |
#LINK http://www.flickr.com/photos/t[…]2157610061263130/ |
| 18:35 |
|
gregdek: danke. |
| 18:36 |
|
tabitha: Oh my gosh, you folks have *documentation.* have I told you recently how wonderful you are? |
| 18:36 |
gregdek |
mchua: Will this be part of your recruitment pitch later? :) |
| 18:36 |
mchua |
gregdek: yes. |
| 18:36 |
gregdek |
Eggscellent. |
| 18:36 |
mchua |
#ACTION mchua owes gregdek a recruitment email for The Seventy |
| 18:36 |
|
The Magnificent Seventy |
| 18:36 |
ivazquez |
Sorry I'm late folks, I had no idea I needed to be here. |
| 18:37 |
mchua |
welcome, ivazquez! attendance is optional, but testing meetings tend to be exciting. ;) |
| 18:37 |
|
then again, I'm biased... |
| 18:37 |
|
I'd like to move on to the last agenda item, if everyone feels like test parties are all set to be followed up on? |
| 18:37 |
|
s/?/. |
| 18:37 |
|
is trying to not end statements with questions nowadays. |
| 18:37 |
tabitha |
What do we need - can I put that on the action list? We need to have one person who checks in with us about technical stuff - e.g. we have noticed our XOs are running very slow right now - maybe there is something we should be doing like complete overhaul to clean them up. We could do with stronger direction (if you want us to focus our energy on one thing then tell us!). |
| 18:38 |
mchua |
hm - tabitha, how many hours from now is your saturday testing sprint? (I'm not doing a great job converting timezones in my head right now) |
| 18:38 |
Mitch_Bradley |
Hola |
| 18:38 |
mchua |
hi, Mitch_Bradley ! |
| 18:38 |
Mitch_Bradley |
hi mel |
| 18:39 |
mchua |
tabitha: I really, really need to follow up with you on this stuff, I know... I'm sorry I haven't done it well enough earlier (and that I keep putting it off) |
| 18:39 |
|
let's see |
| 18:39 |
tabitha |
Well it is now Friday lunch time, and we test on Saturdays starting at 10.30am (ish) and go to 1pm / 2pm - if we get very excited we go through to about 4pm |
| 18:39 |
mchua |
tabitha: before you came, we had a list of tasks that needed to be done to totally prep the test case system for this (it's about 95% done, and the last 5% is known, just has to happen) |
| 18:40 |
|
tabitha: okay, so something like 19 hours or so-ish |
| 18:40 |
m_stone |
Mitch_Bradley: mel organized a nice meeting of community-testers like garycmartin, tabitha, and greebo. |
| 18:40 |
|
Mitch_Bradley: the final item on her meeting agenda concerns testing pertaining to joyride & 8.2.1 |
| 18:41 |
mchua |
tabitha: I'll make sure you get that list of "here's the test case prep that needs to happen to get that from 95% to 100% done" in the next 8 hours |
| 18:41 |
greebo |
k, mchua that'd be great |
| 18:41 |
m_stone |
given our recent conversation in devel, I thought you might be able to offer some tasty suggestions. |
| 18:41 |
mchua |
tabitha: the test case prep will give us the list of further things that need to be done ("fill in these test cases") and then if you guys can start blasting through that list, that would be great |
| 18:41 |
m_stone |
tabitha, greebo: Mitch has been hard at work on NANDBlaster, which we think might make deployment's lives a lot easier. |
| 18:42 |
greebo |
m_stone, cool! |
| 18:42 |
mchua |
tabitha: also in the next 8 hours I'll send some thoughts on how we can get your prior testing results into that reporting format, because I suspect that you folks have already made us at *least* halfway to our "test all G1G1 activities" goal |
| 18:42 |
|
tabitha: does that sound ok? |
| 18:42 |
Mitch_Bradley |
I would like for people to try out all the different NANDblaster options as listed in the instructions on the wiki, in various RF environments. |
| 18:42 |
tabitha |
mchua - all okay |
| 18:43 |
mchua |
Mitch_Bradley: sweet. we're just about to segue into 8.2.1 testing, and NANDblaster is part of that, so I'm glad you're here. |
| 18:43 |
m_stone |
greebo, tabitha: edmcnierney is trying to make a decision within the next week or so about whether nandblaster is shippable in 8.2.1 or whether it needs to wait for a later release. |
| 18:43 |
mchua |
tabitha: allrighty, thanks - and I need to fly out to NZ at some point and buy you all a round of drinks. you've been amazing. |
| 18:43 |
gregdek |
mchua: Get Ed to send you to LCA. :) |
| 18:43 |
mchua |
m_stone, Mitch_Bradley: one sec, let's give everyone some background first |
| 18:43 |
|
gregdek: ...oh gosh, I wish |
| 18:43 |
tabitha |
you will see on our list of what we have done - that we have tested for G1G1 - chat, paint, terminal record, analyse, speak, read, browse, moon, implode, maze and memorise |
| 18:43 |
mchua |
Anything else on test parties? We need to move on |
| 18:44 |
|
tabitha: !!! tha'ts even better than I thought |
| 18:44 |
tabitha |
we just keep testing from the G1G1 activity list a different set of activities every weekend |
| 18:44 |
|
we write it on our project page |
| 18:44 |
mchua |
okay, guys, I think this calls for a round of applause for the wellington testers |
| 18:44 |
greebo |
Mitch_Bradley, great, I'll add that to our testing |
| 18:44 |
Mitch_Bradley |
I'm pretty sure NANDblaster is shippable; it basically works, and rather well. I'm looking for corner cases that need to get cleaned up. |
| 18:44 |
greebo |
mchua, yeah, you _need_ to come to lca! |
| 18:45 |
m_stone |
mchua: maybe if you gave a talk there, someone would help sponsor your travel? |
| 18:45 |
lfaraone |
Mitch_Bradley: why isn't it documented on the wiki? |
| 18:45 |
erikg |
greebo: dsaxena and i were accepted for a talk. looks like i don't have the money to go to lca. |
| 18:45 |
lfaraone |
Mitch_Bradley: scratch that, just need to add a redir. |
| 18:45 |
mchua |
greebo: m_stone: greebo: erk! uh, can I talk with you about LCA outside the meeting? |
| 18:45 |
Mitch_Bradley |
lfaraone: because it is docomented on the wiki |
| 18:46 |
dgilmore |
m_stone: i put in two talk proposals for LCA both got rejected |
| 18:46 |
dsaxena |
erikg: i decided not to go |
| 18:46 |
tabitha |
everyone who comes to NZ will have the opportunity to present at Wellington testing - we will provide a venue and buy you drinks and lunch |
| 18:46 |
dsaxena |
:( |
| 18:46 |
mchua |
okay, guys, we need to get to joyride testing |
| 18:46 |
erikg |
dsaxena: sorry to hear |
| 18:46 |
m_stone |
back to testing now. :) |
| 18:46 |
mchua |
tabitha: I'll take you up on that soon as I figure out how :) |
| 18:46 |
|
SO! |
| 18:46 |
|
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Comm[…]008-12-11#Joyride.2F8.2.1_Testing:_The_Challenge |
| 18:46 |
|
(for those who read fast.) |
| 18:46 |
erikg |
tabitha: typically my visits to nz occupy me for five months or so... |
| 18:46 |
mchua |
The short version is that we've been challenged to a friendly head-to-head competition with OLPC's internal QA team |
| 18:46 |
greebo |
erikg, :( |
| 18:47 |
mchua |
for testing 8.2.1 |
| 18:47 |
tabitha |
awesome erikg- if you come for five months then I will buy you more than 1 lunch and show you around too, in exchange for you sharing your knowledge with testers here ;-) |
| 18:47 |
greebo |
mchua, yeah sure (re chatting about lca) |
| 18:47 |
mchua |
which is a small interim release, you can see it at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Eco/8.2.1 and also look on trac for bugs with milestone: 8.2.1 |
| 18:47 |
|
(or actually, m_stone, is the trac query stuff for that fixed yet?) ^^^ |
| 18:47 |
Mitch_Bradley |
would like to go to NZ |
| 18:48 |
garycmartin |
Mitch_Bradley: for the surf?? |
| 18:48 |
Mitch_Bradley |
I just like that part of the world in general |
| 18:48 |
m_stone |
mchua: yup. |
| 18:48 |
tabitha |
one last thing mchua - we get a bit disheartened when we test an activity and we realise a bit late that we are testing in the wrong version - sometimes we search and read lots but still get the version wrong so another plea to clean up the wiki please please please, thanks |
| 18:48 |
erikg |
it's lovely |
| 18:48 |
greebo |
I've registered an OLPC bof at lca |
| 18:48 |
m_stone |
mchua: dev.laptop.org/report/35 |
| 18:48 |
|
tabitha: noted. |
| 18:48 |
mchua |
Basically, I and many others (including many, many people in this room right now) have been saying - not just in testing, but for OLPC in general - "hey, grassroots is wonderful. Volunteers are great. They Do Things! We should help them Do Things!" |
| 18:49 |
greebo |
hoping to have some loan machines to kick off an OLPc Library for loaning to developers (because most people get them and after ~3months they sit on a shelf, so loaning is better ) |
| 18:49 |
mchua |
tabitha: yes. that is a bug, and we should fix it. |
| 18:49 |
lfaraone |
Mitch_Bradley: can NANDBlaster be easilly backported to earlier (8.2.0) firmware versions via a forth script? |
| 18:49 |
mchua |
tabitha: thanks for pointing it out, and bringing it up, and testing despite it anyway. :) |
| 18:49 |
erikg |
lfaraone: you could just install the firmware, right? |
| 18:49 |
mchua |
can we hold off on the NANDblaster stuff for just a sec? |
| 18:49 |
greebo |
gotta fly, will chat later all! |
| 18:49 |
mchua |
greebo: thanks for coming! |
| 18:49 |
m_stone |
greebo: bye! |
| 18:49 |
Caryl |
Hi...are we still there? I was trimming my rose bushes (honest) and lost track of the time |
| 18:50 |
lfaraone |
erikg: that assumes that we've got the firmware signed, which we don't afaict. (yet) |
| 18:50 |
mchua |
Caryl: yes we are |
| 18:50 |
joachimp |
if oplc-update 767 is 8.2, oplc-update ??? is 8.2.1? |
| 18:50 |
tabitha |
okay, well I am off now (have to do the paid part of the day) but you can expect another report in to testing@ again tomorrow after our testing session in Wellington - have a great day! |
| 18:50 |
m_stone |
joachimp: see http://pilgrim.laptop.org/~pil[…]-1/streams/8.2.1/ |
| 18:50 |
mchua |
have fun, tabitha! thank you! |
| 18:50 |
m_stone |
fresh off the presses. |
| 18:50 |
joachimp |
m_stone: thx |
| 18:50 |
lfaraone |
erikg: I'm talking about for testing, I have a large group of testers who would want to try it, but I'd need to get them all dev keys |
| 18:50 |
mchua |
ooh, build! yay m_stone! |
| 18:50 |
|
okay. |
| 18:50 |
greebo |
m_stone, we'll be testing 8.2.1, and I'll be deploying it into my trial in January. Hooray! |
| 18:50 |
m_stone |
joachimp: olpc-update might need to be tweaked. |
| 18:50 |
mchua |
The next thing I'm going to say is very important, so I want everyone to be on the same page |
| 18:50 |
greebo |
m_stone, is the build signed or unsigned? |
| 18:51 |
m_stone |
listens to mchua |
| 18:51 |
greebo |
listens too |
| 18:51 |
m_stone |
and waits for tabitha? |
| 18:51 |
lfaraone |
m_stone: is the final .1 out? |
| 18:51 |
|
listens as well. |
| 18:51 |
Caryl |
ditto |
| 18:51 |
mchua |
8.2.1 testing (which I'm running on the internal OLPC QA side) is an experiment; it's an experiment to see the difference between internal QA testing and volunteer testing. |
| 18:51 |
|
In other words, THIS IS OUR CHANCE TO SHOW WE KICK ASS. |
| 18:51 |
|
The metric: |
| 18:51 |
ivazquez |
is probably not even on the same volume yet :P |
| 18:51 |
greebo |
heh, cool :) |
| 18:52 |
mchua |
man-hours of internal QA time spent facilitating community test * quality of test results from the community |
| 18:52 |
|
vs |
| 18:52 |
m_stone |
'*'? |
| 18:52 |
mchua |
man-hours of internal QA time spent running all of the same tests * quality of test results from internal QA |
| 18:52 |
|
uh... convolution! times! |
| 18:52 |
|
(multiplying.) |
| 18:52 |
m_stone |
not quality / time? |
| 18:52 |
|
(i.e. efficiency?) |
| 18:52 |
mchua |
gah! m_stone is right. |
| 18:52 |
|
can't do maths |
| 18:52 |
greebo |
so I'll be doing an 8.2.1 and G1G1 activities test sprint next Saturday. We'll try to document it as well as we can. |
| 18:52 |
mchua |
well, only specific kinds of maths... abstract algebra fine, elementary division not so fine, apparently |
| 18:53 |
|
greebo: <3 |
| 18:53 |
Mitch_Bradley |
now if we could only measure quality objectively |
| 18:53 |
lfaraone |
Mitch_Bradley: mhm... |
| 18:53 |
mchua |
this test meeting marks the first hour of internal QA time spent facilitating community test on this, double-counted because joef is here as well |
| 18:54 |
|
Mitch_Bradley: "quality," for this purpose, will be defined as "test case runs completed satisfactorily" |
| 18:54 |
|
we need to set some sort of bar for "satisfactorily" |
| 18:54 |
|
but basically, yeah, results/internal-QA-man-hours |
| 18:54 |
gregdek |
CRUSH THE INFIDEL. |
| 18:54 |
|
I mean... kick ass! |
| 18:54 |
mchua |
Of course, there are some things that will have to be done either way, like... finding out what test cases there are, getting them written up, etc. |
| 18:55 |
|
those will be counted in a third category of hours, "We Have To Anyway" hours (more amusing acronyms welcome) |
| 18:55 |
|
So |
| 18:56 |
lfaraone |
mchua: and bar creation |
| 18:56 |
mchua |
What that means is that I'm going to be trying to be as hands-off about community 8.2.1 testing as possible, while (this is the hard part) still making sure you folks have everything you need |
| 18:56 |
|
lfaraone: yes, bar creation and bar-height-publicizing |
| 18:56 |
|
So |
| 18:56 |
|
what that means |
| 18:56 |
lfaraone |
mchua: ok. we'll kick you out of our next testing mtg. :) |
| 18:56 |
m_stone |
:) |
| 18:56 |
mchua |
is that I will *not* be spending time during 8.2.1 testing asking people what they need, as much as I can help myself |
| 18:57 |
|
*you have to tell me.* |
| 18:57 |
|
lfaraone: I would actually love it if you did. |
| 18:57 |
|
In all seriousness. |
| 18:57 |
m_stone |
(and each other) |
| 18:57 |
mchua |
m_stone: exactly |
| 18:57 |
|
Better yet: tell each other what you need |
| 18:57 |
|
The only thing you *need* to sync up with me on is being very, very clear on what the metric and the bar we're trying to hit is |
| 18:58 |
|
because starting in 3 minutes, *you're racing me.* |
| 18:58 |
|
And I will be running as fast as I can within internal QA to do our testing fast and well, so we're going to be hard to beat. |
| 18:58 |
|
But I think you guys can beat me. |
| 18:59 |
garycmartin |
mchua: so we should just go though the 8.2.1 (Ed's list) trac bugs and try to reproduce onan 8.2.1 build and formally report results? |
| 19:00 |
mchua |
garycmartin: Yes - that's one way to give yourself a head start towards the bar in the absence of a clearly defined bar |
| 19:00 |
|
it *is* the right direction to be running in |
| 19:00 |
|
notes that the test meeting will run over for the 2nd time ever tonight - someone should tell marcopg |
| 19:00 |
garycmartin |
mchua: I just usually post followups to the tickets to let folks know if it worked or not. So not sure how 'hrs of community' could be evaluated. |
| 19:01 |
mchua |
garycmartin: in other words, "start running towards where you think the finish line is, and work with us and yell at us to clarify exactly what that finish line is" |
| 19:01 |
m_stone |
garycmartin: hrs of community isn't counted; just the results. |
| 19:01 |
mchua |
garycmartin: hrs of community isn't counted; the only hours we're counting are internal-OLPC-employee-hours. |
| 19:01 |
garycmartin |
m_stone: agreed!! |
| 19:01 |
mchua |
or rather, internal OLPC QA employee hours. |
| 19:02 |
|
the argument is "what is the most efficient allocation of /OLPC's/ resources - this would be a powerful step towards advocating a more community/grassroots enabling centric focus |
| 19:02 |
|
or in other words, "being in business to put ourselves out of business" |
| 19:02 |
|
anyway, we're running over a bit now |
| 19:02 |
garycmartin |
mchua: cattle-prods users, vs. trained and paid cows ;-) |
| 19:02 |
mchua |
and the clock is ticking |
| 19:03 |
Mitch_Bradley |
so are we going to actually talk about testing 8.2.1, or just about process? |
| 19:03 |
mchua |
does anyone have any immediate questions or comments about 8.2.1/joyride testing? remember, the first - and probably the biggest and hardest - part is going to be constantly asking, loudly, for the things you need to get to the finish line (that we haven't defined completely and publicly yet, so that's the first thing to yell about) |
| 19:04 |
|
Mitch_Bradley: well, what I'm going to do is end the formal test community meeting, and then ask somebody else to start another one, in which you and m_stone talk with folks here about testing NANDblaster, and then leave |
| 19:04 |
Caryl |
I missed the beginning. Will there be a template? Will we just pick and choose what to test or will we all test the same things? |
| 19:05 |
mchua |
(because, strictly speaking, you don't need me to be here for that.) |
| 19:05 |
|
Caryl: yes yes and yes. |
| 19:05 |
|
#ACTION mchua send Caryl meeting logs |
| 19:05 |
|
anything else before I run? |
| 19:05 |
|
who can restart the meeting on NANDblaster once I leave? |
| 19:05 |
Caryl |
Are we still trying to test all the Activities before Christmas? |
| 19:05 |
joachimp |
how much space _is needed for olpc-update to 760? |
| 19:05 |
lfaraone |
mchua: *raises hand* |
| 19:05 |
mchua |
lfaraone: Thanks! |
| 19:05 |
|
Caryl: yes. |
| 19:05 |
|
and with that, |
| 19:05 |
|
#endmeeting |