| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 16:59 | mchua | Welcome to the community test meeting, all. </newscaster voice> |
| 16:59 | Agenda is up at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Comm[…]etings/2008-11-13 | |
| 17:00 | # 1 Previous meeting's action items | |
| 17:00 | # 2 G1G1: What can we do to help? | |
| 17:00 | # 3 Activity testing instructions | |
| 17:00 | # 4 Test result reporting instructions | |
| 17:00 | # 5 Activity testing automation | |
| 17:00 | # 6 Mission/scope/focus of Community testing | |
| 17:00 | We have a mildly crowded agenda today, so let's see how fast we can get through it - I think most of these are going to be relatively short discussions. | |
| 17:00 | (also, please chime in with a hello if you're here, so we can tell who's in the meeting) | |
| 17:00 | Any addendums to the agenda, before we start? | |
| 17:01 | garycmartin | mchua: eyes open. |
| 17:01 | tabitha_ | Hello |
| 17:01 | mchua | gregdek, tabitha_, adricnet, fhop... bjordan /should/ be on his way |
| 17:02 | (he may be slightly distracted by the NFL star walking around our office with the film crew right now...) | |
| 17:02 | Caryl: You made it! | |
| 17:02 | kevix | hello. |
| 17:02 | anna_bham | hello |
| 17:02 | Caryl | Yep! Hi! |
| 17:02 | mchua | and welcome back, kevix. thanks for joining in on the brainstorm with adricnet and garycmartin yesterday. |
| 17:02 | welcome back, _bernie - community test meeting here | |
| 17:02 | Last call for new agenda items? | |
| 17:02 | Going... | |
| 17:02 | Goin... | |
| 17:02 | Go... | |
| 17:03 | Ok, Caryl - you're on. ;) http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Comm[…]can_we_do_to_help.3F | |
| 17:03 | bjordan: j0 | |
| 17:03 | Caryl | teach me how to type faster! |
| 17:03 | bjordan | :( brian hasn't done a Paint test plan yet |
| 17:03 | Step 1: try to paint something interesting | |
| 17:04 | Step 2: write down what makes that hard | |
| 17:04 | mchua | As you all already know, G1G1 is just around the corner; Caryl had an idea about how the test community could help |
| 17:04 | bjordan: we're talking about http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Comm[…]can_we_do_to_help.3F | |
| 17:04 | bjordan | mchua: thanks |
| 17:04 | mchua | bjordan: activity test plans are next. ;) and I'll catch up with you after re: Paint |
| 17:04 | Caryl | I have been testing TamTamEdit Think I had better do the whole suite |
| 17:04 | mchua | Caryl: do you want to explain your test jam idea? should I copy-paste from your email? |
| 17:04 | (let's tackle G1G1 first for a few minutes, get that out of the way) | |
| 17:05 | Caryl | copy/paste is ok |
| 17:05 | mchua | Ok - folks, this is from Caryl's email |
| 17:05 | join in some sort of virtual "Testing Jam." We could use irc to communicate for it. Maybe if several folks could get together in central locales (Cambridge, DC, Puget Sound, etc.) they could do tests that used the mesh. | |
| 17:05 | You would need a super goal for the jam....such as test all activities in the G1G1 package and write up things to be put into rtfms or added to the online FLOSS manual...or something like that. Make folks feel needed for something specific. Once we have "hooked" them for one test, they may stick around for more. | |
| 17:05 | </end> | |
| 17:06 | Thoughts? bjordan, you've done Jams before... gregdek, this might be up your alley, and anna_bham and kevix, it might be a fun thing to organize locally with students in Birmingham. | |
| 17:06 | (Both students with the XOs in the deployment - there are some people here in Boston trying to organize some parallel youth Activity test efforts - and with high school and university students, perhaps.) | |
| 17:06 | anna_bham | unfortunately there' s no internet in bham yet |
| 17:06 | bjordan | mchua: that sounds like it would be a good idea |
| 17:07 | adricnet | anna_bham: Uweh?? |
| 17:07 | kevix | anna_bham and I are 100's of miles apart :-) |
| 17:07 | anna_bham | there is at glen iris, but that's the pilot school |
| 17:07 | adricnet | is in Atlanta, btw |
| 17:08 | mchua | anna_bham: No internet needed if we can find a way to get a USB stick of Activities out to the kids, and some way to collect their test reports. And university students might be able to run tests/ facilitate the junior testers. |
| 17:08 | kevix: Oh! Sorry, my bad - I thought you were also in bham. | |
| 17:08 | anna_bham | kev just hangs out on my jabber server |
| 17:08 | bjordan | mchua: Jam attendees tend not to have XOs... maybe this will change with the next g1g1? Or they could focus on off-XO software testing |
| 17:08 | anna_bham | He might as well live here :) |
| 17:08 | kevix | mchua: we met at NYC & nycresistor |
| 17:08 | mchua | One potential "Testing Community Does G1G1!" goal is to have all shipped-with-G1G1 Activities tested - according to the [[How to test an Activity]] page - before Xmas |
| 17:09 | kevix: OH! You're *that* kevix! | |
| 17:09 | gregdek | hullos. |
| 17:09 | mchua | kevix: pardon me, my mind is slipping. :) |
| 17:09 | kevix | *light comes on* |
| 17:09 | Caryl | depends on what and how we are testing. We can't check the accuracy and up-to-date-ness of the wiki without the net |
| 17:10 | For example...TamTamEdit..screen shots are all of an old version | |
| 17:10 | mchua | Ahhh, you're right. |
| 17:10 | Caryl | very confusing to nub's |
| 17:10 | mchua | so I guess this is actually 2 questions, then |
| 17:11 | 1. is "have all shipped-with-G1G1 Activities tested - according to the [[How to test an Activity]] page - before Xmas" a good short-term goal? | |
| 17:11 | (arguments: testing implies good documentation, this will prepare us to recruit an onslaught of new testers for both Sugar and OLPC once G1G1 "get" machines arrive) | |
| 17:12 | Caryl | your page included checking the wiki and instruction, is that what you mean? |
| 17:12 | mchua | and then 2. is there a way a test jam could be run before or after xmas to either help reach this goal, or to follow up on it once it is reached? (and is anyone interested in running a Jam, or learning how? anna_bham, this might be particularly awesome at bham) |
| 17:12 | kevix | is there a page in the help activity about 'how to help olpc'? |
| 17:13 | mchua | Caryl: Yep. Part of the testing is making an oracle to test against; usually the oracle will be a specification or a features list, which is part of documentation. |
| 17:13 | bjordan | kevix: there is a how to volunteer page: http://en.flossmanuals.net/XO/HowToVolunteer |
| 17:13 | mchua | bjordan: totally beat me to it. :P |
| 17:14 | bjordan | links to http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Participate |
| 17:14 | anna_bham | I know they're currently doing teacher training, so who ever's coordinating that might be able to assist. Unfortunately I don't have many contacts outside of the project manager. They pretty much keep me locked up in the server closet and only let me out to do Linux stuff. :) |
| 17:14 | mchua | kevix: pages like that are only useful inasmuch as there are people and groups (like this one) standing by to welcome newcomers and help them get started |
| 17:14 | it's a lot of person-to-person contact, and mentorship, and individuals working together | |
| 17:15 | anna_bham: hey, this is a good way to break out of the server closet for a bit. ;) | |
| 17:15 | anna_bham | Perhaps an offline discussion of the weird political climate surrounding this project is in order |
| 17:15 | adricnet | lols. |
| 17:15 | mchua | but back to the original question: "test g1g1 activities before Dec. 25," thoughts on this as a goal? |
| 17:16 | anna_bham: Yep. I'll PM you after the meeting. | |
| 17:16 | tabitha_ | we will do our bit to test activities by then |
| 17:16 | adricnet | predepends document, as noted |
| 17:16 | Caryl | great idea...good goal to get folks involved...think of all the happy kiddies with their cute little green machines |
| 17:16 | tabitha_ | if you want to give us a specific area to focus on we can or we can do random splattering of all activities for g1g1 |
| 17:17 | mchua | tabitha_: that would be awesome. |
| 17:17 | Any concerns about setting this as a first short-term testing community goal? (We have about 1.3 months.) Is there anything else we should be aiming at before then? | |
| 17:17 | adricnet | How many activities are in the 2008 g1g1 pack? Ship on the newly manufactured XOs ? |
| 17:17 | mchua | I think of this as the "build the base resources" time, and then in early January we'll start hitting the "zomg! recruit! recruit!" time. |
| 17:17 | Caryl | Mel started a sign-up list on the testing page |
| 17:17 | garycmartin | mchua: how do we report findings in a cordinated manor? |
| 17:18 | bjordan | adricnet: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities/G1G1 |
| 17:18 | 28 activities | |
| 17:18 | mchua | Caryl: yeah, but as garycmartin pointed out we'll need to find a better way to scale |
| 17:18 | Caryl | maybe make a list of all the A to be tested and have folks sign up |
| 17:18 | bjordan | 9 content bundles |
| 17:18 | mchua | Right now we have http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Test_cases_8.2.0 |
| 17:18 | more specifically http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Test[…]_8.2.0#Activities | |
| 17:18 | adricnet | ~26 activities ? |
| 17:18 | mchua | we can make a similar page that links to just the G1G1 activity tests |
| 17:19 | so that we have some indication of completion | |
| 17:19 | Caryl | I would love a _template- to report results. I would have started last night, but it seemed too burdensome |
| 17:19 | tabitha_ | have to say sometimes we get lost in the wiki with pages that look like the right one but then see more - so we guess which is newest modified testplan page or whatever page we are hoping we are reading right |
| 17:19 | mchua | (and then we can use cjl's proposed metrics on that page - 26 Activities sounds like a good small trial bed, 1.3 months not an unreasonable time to do this in) |
| 17:19 | Caryl, tabitha_ : Yeah, it is a huge problem. | |
| 17:19 | gregdek | Yep. |
| 17:20 | garycmartin | mchua: last time I tested I wen't through 40-50+ activities. |
| 17:20 | mchua | Building that kind of meta-testing infrastructure is one of *the* most important roles of this test group. If it doesn't exist, we can get people to help us by using it. |
| 17:20 | garycmartin: You, sir, are *amazing.* | |
| 17:20 | Oh! Sorry, we seem to be moving to our 2nd agenda item of activity testing | |
| 17:20 | gregdek | garycmartin: To what depth, may I ask? |
| 17:20 | mchua | should I mark our g1g1 goal as solid, so that we can figure out where we are and how we can get the rest of the way to where we want to be? |
| 17:21 | Caryl | sounds good to me |
| 17:21 | mchua | (I think it makes sense to bring up jams again next week, once that has been settled a bit... is that ok, Caryl?) |
| 17:21 | bjordan | that makes sense |
| 17:21 | tabitha_ | goals are good |
| 17:21 | Caryl | of course... we will know more about what we would want a jam to do by then |
| 17:21 | mchua | Ok - thanks, Caryl. Given that, it seems like our next two agenda items go together, http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Comm[…]ting_instructions and http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Comm[…]ting_instructions |
| 17:21 | adricnet | of the 28? Scratch, Etoys, Piipy and Browse are very deep and complicated |
| 17:21 | garycmartin | gregdek: led me dig the wiki... one mo |
| 17:22 | mchua | winces at the ugly URLs sprawled all together |
| 17:22 | we have a couple notions that we need to settle, as pretty much everyone here has pointed out | |
| 17:22 | * what Activities are we testing? (at least we have that one down; right now we're focusing on G1G1 ship) | |
| 17:22 | * what does "tested" mean? where do we input our results? | |
| 17:22 | Caryl | Re Jam: actually, I was thinking along the lines of a virtual jam like they did for the FLOSS manual. I participated in that one from Montana |
| 17:23 | mchua | (I hope that http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Comm[…]ting_instructions will be the start of something usable - Caryl and tabitha_ especially, how does that look?) |
| 17:23 | and "how the heck do we get something to 'tested' state?" which http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Comm[…]ting_instructions is for. | |
| 17:24 | Caryl: awesome. :) let's talk about that on the mailing list over the next week - it would be great to have a good chunk of time at next thursday's meeting to be able to plan out a virtual jam | |
| 17:24 | garycmartin | gregdek: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Talk[…]n_motivating_ways |
| 17:25 | mchua | gregdek, garycmartin: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Talk[…]n_motivating_ways |
| 17:25 | Caryl | make chart...show progress like Pootle |
| 17:25 | mchua | Caryl: exactly. |
| 17:25 | garycmartin | gregdek: wow what a horrible URL, sorry. I'm on an XO and manually typed it all in... |
| 17:25 | tabitha_ | yes - I encourage testers to test methodically every feature of an activity, if they find something not working then restart (so no previous activities run before trying) and then test on another XO if possible, then report - is there anything missing from this approach? |
| 17:26 | mchua | tabitha_: how do they determine what the features of an Activity are / should be? I'm curious how you folks find your oracle. |
| 17:26 | background for people new to testing: oracles are these things - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oracle_(testing) | |
| 17:27 | kevix | will look at that. |
| 17:27 | tabitha_ | we work out features with lots of talking mostly! lol |
| 17:27 | mchua | and tabitha_ is part of a group in Wellington, NZ who have been doing some spectacularly good Activity testing for months (did I get that right? is anyone else from wellington here?) |
| 17:27 | garycmartin | mchua: if it doesn't work as expected, it's a bug ;-) |
| 17:27 | tabitha_ | you know "oh that is what is supposed to happen" |
| 17:28 | fhop | tabitha_: have you been testing the newest build? |
| 17:28 | mchua | tabitha_: I actually didn't know your group was doing this until Martin, the XS architect, came over and told me the other day - I was *so* happy |
| 17:28 | garycmartin: define "expected" ;) | |
| 17:28 | tabitha_ | Yes I am from Wellington, don't know that anyone else from Wellington made it but we testing tomorrow so will update group |
| 17:28 | Caryl | I looked at the testing form. It seems too short and simple to cover all the things listed in what you would like us to do. Could it be more like a check sheet and include more categories? |
| 17:28 | tabitha_ | We test newest build in almost all cases |
| 17:28 | mchua | garycmartin, tabitha_ : one thing we need is to have published oracles, so that everybody's "expected" is the same |
| 17:28 | aly | im from wellington |
| 17:28 | also part of the wellington testers | |
| 17:28 | mchua | aly: welcome! |
| 17:29 | aly, tabitha_ : what do you call your group? is it "The Wellington Testers?" | |
| 17:29 | aly | but im only half here as im at work and trying to look like im working |
| 17:29 | mchua | gotcha. ;) |
| 17:29 | tabitha_ | test activity in isolation then test collaboration with one other then as many as possible (sometimes six) |
| 17:29 | Caryl | you also asked us to report other oricles eg the OLPCMexico stuff is excellent for Spanish speakers |
| 17:30 | mchua | Caryl: ooh, yes. we haven't even tackled i18n and multilingual testing. |
| 17:30 | gregdek | out of scope :) |
| 17:30 | tabitha_ | well, we have no official "gang/club" name |
| 17:30 | mchua | So... wow. There is a lot here. Let us see if we can break it down. |
| 17:30 | tabitha_ | my email distib list is called OLPC WLG Test Group |
| 17:30 | gregdek | Succeed in one language first, imho. |
| 17:30 | mchua | gregdek + 1 |
| 17:30 | tabitha_ | Ah Alastair is here |
| 17:31 | garycmartin | mchua: if your happy, no bug; if your unhappy and can work out a workaround, file a polite bug; if your unhappy and there is no workaround file a 'dragon eats pony' trac ;-b |
| 17:31 | tabitha_ | Alastair is the regular lead geek of the Wellington test group |
| 17:31 | some activities dont collaborate and we cry because they should | |
| 17:31 | mchua | garycmartin: I couldn't find a pony-eating-dragon on digikey; where do I source them? ;) |
| 17:31 | Caryl | Greg: right, but the OLPC Mexico graphics are up to date. The ones on the wiki aren't |
| 17:31 | mchua | Caryl: then we should port them over. ;) |
| 17:32 | Hm. May I propose a strawman for what we can do to start tackling this "Test Activities!" mountain between now and next week? | |
| 17:32 | Caryl | they are pdf Does anyone know how? |
| 17:32 | aly | we do have a wiki page for the Wellington testers but its fairly empty at the moment http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Projects/WellyNZTesters |
| 17:33 | mchua | (I'd like to wrap these 2 agenda items in the next 10 minutes so we have a *bit* of time to talk about automation, and more time to talk more broadly about how things are going with the test community so far.) |
| 17:33 | garycmartin | mchua: my flat is full of them, I'll direct some your way... |
| 17:34 | mchua | Any objections to me piping out a strawman plan for activity testing, so everyone can find the holes? |
| 17:34 | garycmartin: awesome, thanks. :D | |
| 17:34 | martin_xsa: welcome! the wellington activity test group *ROCKS*. Thank you for the introduction! | |
| 17:34 | ...I'll take the silence as "ok, mel, post the strawman! ;)" | |
| 17:34 | martin_xsa | no prob! frances mentioned the meeting was happening, so... |
| 17:34 | mchua | so, we need a couple things - working backwards: |
| 17:34 | martin_xsa | plays fly-on-the-wall |
| 17:35 | fhop | martin_xsa: its fhop here....my irc-edo |
| 17:35 | ego | |
| 17:35 | mchua | * a way to find good oracles (what we should expect Activities to do - so we have common expectations) |
| 17:35 | Caryl | OK guys...I have to ask. What does "cheesy" mean? I thought it meant cheaply made, poor quality, but everyone seems to use it as a good thing. |
| 17:35 | mchua | it sounds like aly and tabitha_ and the WellyNZTesters (WNTs?) have done a lot of this |
| 17:35 | tabitha_ | Hola Martin |
| 17:36 | mchua | we also need work on http://wiki.laptop.org/go/How_to_test_an_Activity, which covers (so far) how to *make* oracles for your Activity |
| 17:36 | we also need work on our "how do I report results?" framework, in particular to make it newbie-friendly | |
| 17:37 | garycmartin | mchua: badges!!! |
| 17:37 | mchua | and finally we need a *lot* of work on how to measure how completely an Activity is tested, which begins with definining "completely" |
| 17:37 | garycmartin | mchua: (wiki badges) |
| 17:37 | Caryl | That last link foes to an empty page |
| 17:37 | mchua | which goes into what garycmartin and cjl have said about wiki badges, for tracking contributions + up-to-dateness + goodness of test results |
| 17:38 | Caryl: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/How_to_test_an_Activity ? | |
| 17:38 | martin_xsa | tabitha_, hola! |
| 17:38 | mchua | so here is what I propose |
| 17:38 | garycmartin | mchua: +dragons eating testing ponies.... |
| 17:38 | gregdek | thinks that "completeness" is dangerously subjective... |
| 17:38 | garycmartin | (metaphor) |
| 17:39 | martin_xsa | abundanness is better |
| 17:39 | mchua | bjordan, gregdek, Caryl: you've started looking at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/How_to_test_an_Activity - could you continue helping me focus on building that with good instructions, through testing it with your Activities? (Speak, Paint, TamTamEdit) |
| 17:39 | martin_xsa | :-) abundancy |
| 17:39 | gregdek | Yes |
| 17:39 | bjordan | mchua: yuh huh |
| 17:40 | mchua | garycmartin, gregdek: i'd like to get a first draft of a subjective 'complete' metric (and a 'participation' metric), with badges, ponies, dragons... and whatever else we can come up with |
| 17:40 | Caryl | sure. Do you want me to start a template like what I envision as helpful for new testers like me? |
| 17:40 | mchua | to show this group next week, along with the "by our metrics, we are X% done with our G1G1-yay! goal" |
| 17:40 | martin_xsa | recentness + abundancy are good measures. |
| 17:41 | mchua | gregdek, gregdek: would you be interested in sprinting on a design-and-prototyping session for an hour or two sometime over the next week to get this up? I can try to pull in skierpage for wiki-fu. |
| 17:41 | Caryl: that would rock, if you could take that perspective. | |
| 17:41 | gregdek | Um... yes, yes? |
| 17:41 | kevix | what other metric besides a binary one: pass/fail, worked/didnt work, etc. |
| 17:41 | martin_xsa | another good thing is a structure - wiki and otherwise - that allows ppl to do many things in parallel, without having to wait or take turns.... |
| 17:41 | mchua | gregdek: I think it falls in nicely with "let's try the ekg project on olpc-test", too |
| 17:41 | martin_xsa: +1 | |
| 17:42 | kevix: I think some of the things that garycmartin and martin_xsa have brought up about recentness and abundancy would be good metrics | |
| 17:42 | kevix, would you like to join me and gregdek and garycmartin on the metrics party this week? | |
| 17:42 | gregdek | mchua: Yes. |
| 17:42 | Tell me when. | |
| 17:42 | kevix | sure, i guess. |
| 17:43 | any 'party' sounds good ;-) | |
| 17:43 | garycmartin | mchua: ohh a party, do tell :-) |
| 17:43 | mchua | tabitha_ and aly, your team has a *lot* of useful experience and data we should tap, to see if these are actually good designs for systems that we can use |
| 17:43 | kevix: thanks! | |
| 17:43 | garycmartin: with ponies ;) | |
| 17:43 | garycmartin | mchua: and a dragon. |
| 17:43 | mchua | testing parties always need ponies and dragons. |
| 17:43 | martin_xsa | and we also want to have a positive stance. if an activity works prettywell, but has some problems, we want to convey that full impression - "fail" is not a good feedback if it's mostly working :-) |
| 17:43 | mchua | martin_xsa: ooh, yes. |
| 17:43 | martin_xsa and marcopg, we should devote a testing meeting to developer-tester relationships at some point... next week, week after, maybe? | |
| 17:44 | tabitha_ | Alastair and I are happy to review those pages and help with updating them |
| 17:44 | marcopg | mchua: duh lost all the meeting, my brain is gone tonight |
| 17:44 | mchua: next week there is Sugarcamp | |
| 17:44 | maybe week after? | |
| 17:44 | unless we want to do it there | |
| 17:45 | mchua | tabitha_, aly: That would be awesome. How does this sound? When the meeting notes go up, we'll have the list of g1g1 activities, and whether someone here is testing them or not |
| 17:45 | tabitha_ | definitely agree with Martin that we value the developers and give positive feedback on what works and what rocks about their activities |
| 17:45 | garycmartin | martin_xsa: yep, some badge system that can say ~'10 ponies, 4 draggons' or some such is needed. |
| 17:45 | mchua | tabitha_, aly: can you pick some Activities (as many as you want) for your group to take charge of testing until at least xmas, so we have those covered, and then... |
| 17:45 | marcopg | tabitha_: I suspect even negative feedback will help! |
| 17:45 | tabitha_: I have the impression they currently feel like no one cares at all | |
| 17:46 | mchua | tabitha_, aly: ...and then let's go through the tests that you've already done, and try going through the [[How to test Activities]] "oracle-making" section and make good oracles for (1) the Activities you're testing, and if we have time (2) the Activities you've tested before? |
| 17:46 | tabitha_, aly : and if we have time after /that/, I' | |
| 17:46 | tabitha_, aly : whoops, hit enter too soon | |
| 17:46 | Caryl | Don't forget to sign them up on the testing page so folks know what still needs to be workied on |
| 17:47 | mchua | tabitha_, aly : all of that is a prelude - if we have enough time after that, I'd love the wellington group to be the ones exploring how we can build excellent test/developer relationships |
| 17:48 | tabitha_, aly : I am not sure how that should happen, but I think that you folks are probably the best group to tackle it right now, since you have done a lot of "deep" Activity testing and can immediately talk with devs about it now | |
| 17:48 | tabitha_, aly : (I know that was a lot; what do you think?) | |
| 17:48 | tabitha_ | All good from here, that is what christmas lead up is all about, sitting around drinking coffee and testing XOs |
| 17:48 | mchua | woo! |
| 17:49 | kevix | heh |
| 17:49 | tabitha_ | I have nothing better to do ;-p and get lots of enjoyment out of it |
| 17:49 | mchua | I *think* that takes care of those two agenda items |
| 17:49 | (how-to-test and how-to-report-results) | |
| 17:49 | anything else on those? | |
| 17:49 | tabitha_ | tick |
| 17:49 | mchua | ...I'm going to take that as a yes |
| 17:49 | next thing! | |
| 17:49 | (we're almost done!) | |
| 17:49 | Agenda item: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Acti[…]esting_automation | |
| 17:50 | adricnet and I were supposed to come up with a design | |
| 17:50 | garycmartin and kevix joined in, and that's what we came up with | |
| 17:50 | Design review welcome before the coding starts | |
| 17:50 | garycmartin managed to get in touch with zach, the developer of Sugarbot | |
| 17:51 | which probably will be *super* useful in implementing this | |
| 17:51 | I think we'll probably need some developer feedback on the sanity of that design before we can really have a good convo about it here, so I'd propose that we discuss this on the list, I'll try to bring developers in for sanity checking, and then we can check in next week on how it's doing | |
| 17:52 | how does that sound? | |
| 17:52 | garycmartin | mchua: I'll be tring to test sugarboot as it on an XO, though Zach does not indicate that this was it's function, he suggests it may still work. |
| 17:52 | mchua | garycmartin: <3 |
| 17:52 | garycmartin: if you can keep working with zach on sugarbot, that would be *super* helpful | |
| 17:52 | marcopg | I might try to look into sugarbot + buildbot |
| 17:53 | but not sure when I'll get time for it :/ | |
| 17:53 | mchua | marcopg: we should get together with cjb to check out sugarbot + tinderbox integration, too |
| 17:53 | garycmartin | marcopg: yep, that was zach's other plan. |
| 17:53 | marcopg | garycmartin: yeah, and please keep the sugar list informed about progresses with zach |
| 17:53 | mchua | marcopg: either during or after sugarcamp, methinks |
| 17:53 | marcopg | mchua: we should allocate some time at sugarcamp for autotest I think |
| 17:53 | mchua | garycmartin: titus brown = another good person to talk to, iirc |
| 17:53 | martin_xsa | i suspect that automated testing is not very interesting to volunteer testers |
| 17:54 | it's fun to test activities :-) | |
| 17:54 | and it's a bit of a social event | |
| 17:54 | marcopg | yeah, might be more interesting to developers |
| 17:54 | Caryl | right |
| 17:54 | mchua | anna_bham: do you still want to keep playing with dsh? ;) there's plenty of things that we could do with that and garycmartin's scripts, especially since you have access to an actual deployment |
| 17:54 | martin_xsa | (IMHO, YMMV) |
| 17:55 | anna_bham | mchua: I'd be happy to keep playing with dsh, but I won't be able to in an actual school quite yet |
| 17:55 | garycmartin | martin_xsa: hoping natural language bugs wil be reported by humans, we'll then implement as test scripts to make sure bugs are reproducable/testable. |
| 17:55 | mchua | anna_bham: understood |
| 17:55 | tabitha_ | Got to love you and leave you now |
| 17:56 | anna_bham | mchua: I've tried to make my XS test platform be as close to the sort of infrastructure at a school as I can |
| 17:56 | kevix | anna_bham: you can still try dsh on your testing setup |
| 17:56 | mchua | Hm, I think that pretty well covers automated testing, actually - garycmartin is working on sugarbot with zach, I'll catch up with anna_bham on dsh, marcopg and I will join the sugarbot party when sugarcamp/g1g1 madness passes... |
| 17:56 | anna_bham, meet martin_xsa. martin_xsa, anna_bham. Birmingham deployment, XS user. ;) | |
| 17:56 | Anything else on automated testing? | |
| 17:56 | garycmartin | tabitha_: bye! |
| 17:56 | mchua | tabitha_: thank you for coming! |
| 17:56 | marcopg | I will try to send feedback on your ideas |
| 17:56 | fhop | thanks for coming tabitha! |
| 17:57 | marcopg | haven't had time to read them, yet :/ |
| 17:57 | mchua | marcopg: <3 |
| 17:57 | kevix | bye tabitha_ |
| 17:57 | garycmartin | mchua: any feed back regarding bash scripts? |
| 17:57 | mchua: (ignoring dsh ;-) | |
| 17:58 | mchua | garycmartin: not yet, but after anna_bham and I start working on dsh-like-things I think we'll have some stuff for you pretty soon |
| 17:58 | Anything else on automated testing? We're almost out of time | |
| 17:58 | I'd like to stick around afterwards if anyone has feedback on how these meetings + the test community are going, too - we've done this for 3 weeks so far and it's probably time to take a step back and see what's going well, what could be better, etc. | |
| 17:59 | Automated testing, anything? Anybody? | |
| 17:59 | (Anything else for this meeting, last-minute things?) | |
| 17:59 | Going... | |
| 17:59 | ...going... | |
| 17:59 | #endmeeting |