| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 23:36 |
meeting |
Meeting started Thu Aug 28 23:36:35 2014 UTC. The chair is bashintosh. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
| 23:36 |
|
Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting |
| 23:36 |
paulcotton |
I'm going to do another big round of SugarLabs hunting as well for potential "straight to release" activities to bolster our time |
| 23:36 |
|
Okay, over to Matthew. |
| 23:36 |
bashintosh |
#topic Sugar 0.102 - Discussion about status and requirements |
| 23:37 |
|
so we are planning to deploy 0.102 for the coming build xo-system 2 |
| 23:37 |
|
however I am personally not aware of the current real status of this version of Sugar |
| 23:37 |
walterbender |
what is xo-system 2? |
| 23:38 |
bashintosh |
walterbender: please read the meeting agenda |
| 23:38 |
|
walterbender: https://olpcau.atlassian.net/w[…]eeting+29-08-2014 |
| 23:38 |
|
#info Due to the important jump forward in terms of overall system architecture, features and user experience, the next OS will be named XO-System 2 instead of 1d! |
| 23:38 |
|
walterbender: ^ |
| 23:39 |
gonzalo__ |
bashintosh, 0.102 runs ok in F20. In fact we have some problems solved |
| 23:39 |
|
(like the version of webkit) |
| 23:39 |
bashintosh |
gonzalo__: so we have a build with F20 + 102? |
| 23:39 |
tch__ |
bashintosh, we also have a f18 + s0.102 image, if we want to test 0.102 specifically |
| 23:39 |
walterbender |
bashintosh, putting text in a box makes it easier to ignore :P |
| 23:40 |
bashintosh |
walterbender: no comment |
| 23:40 |
walterbender |
that is what they put warning on cigarette cartons in boxes |
| 23:40 |
|
seriously |
| 23:40 |
gonzalo__ |
bashintosh, we run 0.102 on F20, but not in the xo |
| 23:40 |
bashintosh |
gonzalo__: got it - was it ever tested on XO-4? |
| 23:41 |
gonzalo__ |
bashintosh, are two different issues |
| 23:41 |
tch__ |
bashintosh, gonzalo__ we still don't have f20 + s0.102 combo |
| 23:41 |
gonzalo__ |
tch__, in a xo |
| 23:41 |
tch__ |
yes, not in a xo |
| 23:41 |
gonzalo__ |
tch__, but in fact sugar-build run in f20 |
| 23:42 |
tch__ |
yes, we have been testing f20 + 0.102 since a few months now |
| 23:42 |
|
in PC |
| 23:42 |
gonzalo__ |
bashintosh, then, to be more clear, the problem is run F20 in a xo, not run sugar 0.102 in f20 |
| 23:42 |
bashintosh |
what's the best way for us to get 102 on our current testing build? |
| 23:42 |
|
aka 10002xx4.zd |
| 23:43 |
gonzalo__ |
bashintosh, if you want test 0.102, we can use images based on f18 |
| 23:43 |
tch__ |
bashintosh, we first need to be able to rebuild f20 in the xo, |
| 23:44 |
bashintosh |
tch__: not sure - we can start testing with the current build IF there is a quick way to get 102 there |
| 23:44 |
|
has it been deployed on official Fedora repos? |
| 23:45 |
tch__ |
bashintosh, let me check, |
| 23:45 |
bashintosh |
#chair bashintosh |
| 23:45 |
meeting |
Current chairs: bashintosh |
| 23:45 |
bashintosh |
tch__: thank you |
| 23:46 |
walterbender |
bashintosh, Fedora is building with 102 AFAIK |
| 23:46 |
bashintosh |
if possible, Niraj could start testing 102 to get an overall idea of any possible major issue on the F20 built by dnarvaez_ |
| 23:47 |
|
walterbender: sounds promising! |
| 23:47 |
tch__ |
according to http://arm.koji.fedoraproject.[…]fo?packageID=8918 and http://koji.fedoraproject.org/[…]fo?packageID=4562 |
| 23:48 |
|
0.102 is availble from f21+ |
| 23:48 |
walterbender |
bashintosh, we have done a fair amount of testing of 102, but not F20 on XO |
| 23:48 |
bashintosh |
that would mean that 102 is officially released and not anymore beta testing, correct? |
| 23:48 |
walterbender |
I guess |
| 23:49 |
|
gonzalo__ has quit IRC |
| 23:49 |
bashintosh |
Niraj: we could attempt a force install http://koji.fedoraproject.org/[…]fo?buildID=552581 |
| 23:49 |
|
tch__: thanks! ^ |
| 23:49 |
tch__ |
bashintosh, we could rebuild the packages for f20 too, |
| 23:50 |
|
bashintosh, actually, gonzalo did that for having 0.102 in f18 |
| 23:50 |
|
gonzalo__ <gonzalo__!~gonzalo 190.173.22.93> has joined #olpc-au |
| 23:50 |
bashintosh |
tch__: I suppose we'll have to do that anyway? |
| 23:50 |
gonzalo__ |
sorry, lost connection agan |
| 23:50 |
tch__ |
bashintosh, yes |
| 23:50 |
Niraj |
bashintosh: ok, I will try force install of 102-f21 sugar packages on F20 build |
| 23:51 |
tch__ |
bashintosh, yes, we should rebuild it for f20 anyway |
| 23:51 |
|
Niraj, worth the try :) |
| 23:51 |
bashintosh |
#action Niraj will attempt try force install of 102-f21 sugar packages on F20 build |
| 23:52 |
|
tch__: for now can you continue with trying the build? I will finish the VM this morning |
| 23:52 |
gonzalo__ |
hmm, will you use the rpms in the sugarlabs images, rght? |
| 23:52 |
walterbender |
peterrobinson is the Fedora maintainer of Sugar upstream... he is very cooperative if you have any questions |
| 23:52 |
tch__ |
bashintosh, I can try using the current f20 image to re-build on a xo |
| 23:52 |
bashintosh |
walterbender: where do I find him? |
| 23:53 |
walterbender |
Peter Robinson <pbrobinsongmail.com> |
| 23:53 |
bashintosh |
tch__: yes you can try - after that I see the time better spent of finalising the build env, what do you think? |
| 23:53 |
|
walterbender: thx! |
| 23:55 |
tch__ |
bashintosh, our priority now is to get to a working f20 :), be it on a xo or the VM |
| 23:57 |
bashintosh |
tch__: agree however I am really conscious of the time spent later on to upload builds, building (slow on XO4) and the fact that an XO is not usable for testing and dev. I am happy to wait for F20 build till we have a proper building env ready |
| 23:57 |
satellit_e |
FYI http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Fedora_20 I can make a f20 soas export from VB and upload it to sugarlabs.wiki |
| 23:59 |
tch__ |
bashintosh, we will have both, once we get it to work, I can easily replicate it anywhere |
| 23:59 |
satellit_e |
pbrobinson is usually on #fedora-arm |
| 23:59 |
bashintosh |
satellit_e: that would mean A LOT! Thanks satellit! |
| 23:59 |
satellit_e |
k will do i686 or x86_64? |
| 23:59 |
bashintosh |
joined.. |
| 00:01 |
|
satellit_e: x86_64 if you can, but makes no big difference if we use it virtualized I suppose |
| 00:01 |
|
tch__: OK |
| 00:01 |
|
next topic? |
| 00:01 |
satellit_e |
depends on PC my yoga pro 2 is only able to use i386 VB |
| 00:03 |
bashintosh |
satellit_e: I use qemu-kvm on a few different servers - it's amazingly flexible! |
| 00:03 |
|
#topic Proposed new features to include in the system/Sugar (eg. printing) |
| 00:04 |
satellit_e |
this MSI windbox does both... |
| 00:04 |
walterbender |
bashintosh, how does printing want to be configiured? |
| 00:04 |
bashintosh |
moving on, is there any chance to get more features for 102? printing would be huge |
| 00:04 |
|
walterbender: via cups |
| 00:05 |
walterbender |
is there a standard solution in the schools |
| 00:05 |
|
adding the kb shortcut is the easy part |
| 00:05 |
bashintosh |
walterbender: it depends, most schools have network printers so it's fairly easy to configure |
| 00:05 |
|
walterbender: yes :) |
| 00:05 |
walterbender |
OK... |
| 00:06 |
bashintosh |
#link https://www.cups.org/ |
| 00:06 |
gonzalo__ |
bashintosh, we would need define what imply printing, like if there are permissions, queues, and so |
| 00:06 |
walterbender |
it really needs to be specific to the use case defined by the schools |
| 00:07 |
gonzalo__ |
one reason why printing was never implemented, is because fear of kids sending prints without control |
| 00:07 |
tch__ |
bashintosh, we are putting the features for 0.104 in http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.104/Feature_List |
| 00:07 |
|
bashintosh, is there a web platform for managing network printers? |
| 00:07 |
bashintosh |
gonzalo__: that would all (hopefully) be managed by cups - I think that we would need a way to access CUPS via Sugar (web browser too works) and integrating buttons (or shortcuts) in the activities to print |
| 00:08 |
walterbender |
bashintosh, we can install cups |
| 00:08 |
|
but we need to configure it |
| 00:08 |
|
and that needs info from the schools |
| 00:08 |
gonzalo__ |
bashintosh, walterbender, tch__, I would like to have time to include upstream some of our already tested features, like proxy support or the security in the networks |
| 00:08 |
bashintosh |
walterbender: we've done it on XO-4 - really easy, you can configure CUPS via web browser |
| 00:09 |
gonzalo__ |
that could make our suppot work easier |
| 00:09 |
bashintosh |
gonzalo__: I suppose not all kids will be allowed to print - this comes down to school policy really but I see your point |
| 00:09 |
walterbender |
bashintosh, I mean in a school, to understand how to get the policy details |
| 00:10 |
gonzalo__ |
bashintosh, probably technically we are close, we need check in the school how that coul be used |
| 00:10 |
bashintosh |
walterbender: that is managed by the printer itself or their proxy behind the printer - we can start simple and get feedback! |
| 00:11 |
|
I have a whole array of schools who would be happy just to do print screen like we've done here at the LAB |
| 00:11 |
gonzalo__ |
bashintosh, what if we work in google drive integration in the journal? then the teacher can easily print what he want |
| 00:11 |
walterbender |
bashintosh, +1 to getting feedback |
| 00:12 |
bashintosh |
#action query schools to understand the level of complexity needed to integrate printing (and printing policies) in Sugar |
| 00:12 |
tch__ |
bashintosh, can you document a bit what is being used in schools? |
| 00:13 |
|
oh yeah, that :) |
| 00:13 |
bashintosh |
tch__: I will put up a new wiki with more details of what we've done here and the schools setup |
| 00:13 |
tch__ |
bashintosh, thanks |
| 00:13 |
bashintosh |
I am happy that you guys are open to this discussion! |
| 00:14 |
|
#link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.104/Feature_List |
| 00:14 |
walterbender |
bashintosh, we had printing via cups enabled in some deployments in the past... but so long ago I don't remember any of the details |
| 00:15 |
gonzalo__ |
bashintosh, you can document your experiments too :) |
| 00:16 |
bashintosh |
walterbender: with Niraj we've used CUPS (configured via Browse in 3mins) + http://www.nongnu.org/xbindkeys/xbindkeys.html + a py script I wrote to save the screen buffer to file and send it to the printer |
| 00:16 |
|
will post details on Confluence |
| 00:16 |
|
gonzalo__: ^ |
| 00:16 |
gonzalo__ |
bashintosh, great |
| 00:17 |
tch__ |
bashintosh, that will be very helpful |
| 00:18 |
bashintosh |
http://fpaste.org/129484/40927143/ password is olpc |
| 00:18 |
|
gonzalo__: tch__ walterbender ^ I have a v1.1 :) on my XO at home that has cleaner code :) |
| 00:19 |
gonzalo__ |
nice trick |
| 00:19 |
bashintosh |
gonzalo__: dirty.. :) but works |
| 00:19 |
gonzalo__ |
probes the point |
| 00:19 |
bashintosh |
with xbindkeys http://www.nongnu.org/xbindkeys/xbindkeys.html |
| 00:20 |
|
will keep this up in our wiki |
| 00:20 |
tch__ |
in terms of features, and in general, I think we should stay conservative , considering the f20 work load so lets use our cards wisely :) |
| 00:20 |
|
bashintosh, looks very simple |
| 00:20 |
|
:) |
| 00:20 |
bashintosh |
tch__: no metaclasses there ;) |
| 00:20 |
Niraj |
we can use cups client - server config architecture to manage the printing policies , queues and jobs |
| 00:21 |
tch__ |
Niraj, you mean like an activity? |
| 00:22 |
|
Niraj, I mean, like one XO offering printing service to other xos? |
| 00:22 |
bashintosh |
tch__: eventually! |
| 00:22 |
walterbender |
is a fan of moving more into activities and less in special CP sections |
| 00:22 |
Niraj |
tch__: Yes, you can have print server runnning on teachers XO and Clients on Student |
| 00:23 |
tch__ |
Niraj, that could be nice, if we can't put the server in the school infrastructure |
| 00:24 |
bashintosh |
tch__: I think the XS has that as a feature too |
| 00:25 |
paulcotton |
It's good to give teachers more "classroom management" power - but it's not a great experience for the teacher if we force them to use an XO to do it. |
| 00:25 |
|
They're just not well suited to bigger hands. |
| 00:25 |
bashintosh |
paulcotton: +1 |
| 00:26 |
|
paulcotton: wanna explain what you just told me? :) |
| 00:26 |
gonzalo__ |
paulcotton, we can install sugar on normal laptops too |
| 00:26 |
paulcotton |
We may want to consider web services for this kind of stuff, so they're accessible on XO and off XO |
| 00:26 |
|
gonzalo__: we should talk more about that at some point, I'd love to have a VM running the current build |
| 00:26 |
|
Just personally |
| 00:27 |
gonzalo__ |
paulcotton, should not be difficult |
| 00:27 |
paulcotton |
Anyway, I don't want to derail things, I just feel we should consider options outside of the XO when we talk about the teacher management tools |
| 00:28 |
|
Or life becomes finicky for teachers. |
| 00:28 |
walterbender |
or we use touch |
| 00:28 |
bashintosh |
aka - the possibility to use a web browser to 'connect' to the XO and configure/manage various aspects (such as printing policy?) |
| 00:29 |
paulcotton |
Touch would be a big help, definitely. |
| 00:29 |
bashintosh |
a 'future' idea but very valuable |
| 00:29 |
|
shall we move on? |
| 00:29 |
gonzalo__ |
yes :) |
| 00:29 |
paulcotton |
+1 |
| 00:29 |
tch__ |
+1 |
| 00:30 |
bashintosh |
very well then |
| 00:30 |
|
#topic Acceptance/review of the first smoke test QT-71 |
| 00:30 |
|
have we all seen Niraj's work? ^ |
| 00:30 |
walterbender |
yes |
| 00:30 |
tch__ |
yup |
| 00:30 |
gonzalo__ |
yes |
| 00:31 |
bashintosh |
comments, suggestions, missing things? |
| 00:31 |
satellit_e |
http://sugarizer.org/ |
| 00:31 |
bashintosh |
satellit_e: eheh yeah it's amazing! I have it on my droid! |
| 00:31 |
gonzalo__ |
bashintosh, is cear that is a very rough image, the only objective was boot |
| 00:32 |
|
s/cear/clear/ |
| 00:33 |
tch__ |
the results are better than I expected in terms of HW support |
| 00:33 |
bashintosh |
gonzalo__: true, however it basically uses the base system (+kernel) that we are trying to build so it's a very good starting point to understand stability, performance and HW support |
| 00:33 |
|
tch__: +1 |
| 00:34 |
gonzalo__ |
we only need found how reproduce it :) |
| 00:34 |
bashintosh |
gonzalo__: ahah yeah! |
| 00:34 |
|
#action reproduce f20 build with Sugar 0.102 |
| 00:34 |
|
:) |
| 00:34 |
satellit_e |
has anyone looked at XSCE ? |
| 00:35 |
bashintosh |
satellit_e: is the project still alive? |
| 00:35 |
satellit_e |
yes CanoeBerry is working on it |
| 00:35 |
|
#schoolserver |
| 00:36 |
|
https://docs.google.com/docume[…]31un8YLcYslg/edit |
| 00:37 |
bashintosh |
I had the very mad idea of integrating XS on the access points we deploy in the schools here in AU. We need more time to explore that path but the project is great |
| 00:37 |
|
satellit_e: ^ |
| 00:38 |
tch__ |
bashintosh, we used openWRT in .py deploymnt |
| 00:38 |
bashintosh |
thanks satellit_e !! very handy |
| 00:38 |
gonzalo__ |
please don't go out off topic ...... |
| 00:38 |
bashintosh |
tch__: same here, great OS |
| 00:38 |
satellit_e |
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XS_C[…]on#IRC_Guidelines |
| 00:38 |
tch__ |
what was the next topic? |
| 00:38 |
satellit_e |
sorry to interrupt |
| 00:38 |
bashintosh |
satellit_e: please do anytime ;) |
| 00:39 |
|
final topic |
| 00:39 |
|
#topic Building the system - OOB, requirements and the environment |
| 00:39 |
|
tch__: what's the latest news after I left a few hours ago? |
| 00:39 |
|
have you tried building already on XO-4? |
| 00:40 |
|
tch__: you were mentioning possible missing patches? Could you explain this to the other folks? |
| 00:41 |
tch__ |
bashintosh, nothing much, I will try setting up the building env on a XO-4 tomorrow, using the curent f20 |
| 00:41 |
|
bashintosh, hopefully it will have a different result from what James mentioned, regarding the repo I found |
| 00:41 |
bashintosh |
tch__: mind that he's using kernel 3.11 |
| 00:42 |
|
AFAIK |
| 00:42 |
tch__ |
bashintosh, yeah, I still have some hope with Daniel Narvez using old kernel |
| 00:42 |
|
bashintosh, it could be that the packages there are not the same as in the image Niraj tested though, |
| 00:42 |
gonzalo__ |
bashintosh, do you know what kernel is using james in the android images? |
| 00:43 |
bashintosh |
gonzalo__: nope sorry |
| 00:43 |
|
tch__: can we ask Niraj to verify anything on the build to understand more about the packages? |
| 00:44 |
tch__ |
bashintosh, would be nice to have a package/version comparison between the repo and the packages installed in the image |
| 00:44 |
bashintosh |
tch__: ahah |
| 00:44 |
|
tch__: Niraj is working on that exactly! |
| 00:44 |
tch__ |
bashintosh, :) |
| 00:45 |
Niraj |
tch__: bashintosh : I am on it, you will have that in couple of hours |
| 00:45 |
tch__ |
Niraj, ^ |
| 00:45 |
|
Niraj, great! |
| 00:46 |
bashintosh |
#action provide package/version comparison between the repo dnarvaez_ and the packages on the testing build (F20) |
| 00:46 |
|
#link http://shell.sugarlabs.org/~dnarvaez/ |
| 00:46 |
|
Niraj: ^ |
| 00:47 |
tch__ |
I will try to replicate daniel's OOB env on a xo-4 |
| 00:47 |
bashintosh |
#link http://shell.sugarlabs.org/~dnarvaez/oob/f20-xo4/ |
| 00:47 |
|
Niraj: this is the repo used to build F20 ^ - ideally you could also verify that these packages are for sure those included in 10002xx4 |
| 00:48 |
tch__ |
bashintosh, Niraj : this one too http://shell.sugarlabs.org/~dnarvaez/oob/f20/ |
| 00:48 |
bashintosh |
Niraj: we are not sure that it is indeed the right repo that was used to build F20 |
| 00:48 |
Niraj |
bashintosh: I am preparing package comparision report between F18 and F20 build |
| 00:49 |
bashintosh |
Niraj: plus if you could verify that the packages match between the repo and 10002xx4 |
| 00:49 |
|
repo > http://shell.sugarlabs.org/~dnarvaez/oob/f20-xo4/ |
| 00:49 |
tch__ |
bashintosh, they are used, but since there is a missing repo, there is no guarantee that the repos are complete |
| 00:50 |
Niraj |
bashintosh: ok sure, I will include that as well in report |
| 00:51 |
bashintosh |
tch__: let's see - maybe we are lucky or alsroot can find something on jita |
| 00:52 |
tch__ |
bashintosh, +1, anyway it would be great if James get the newer kernel to work |
| 00:52 |
|
any idea of the status of that work? |
| 00:53 |
bashintosh |
tch__: yes no success so far :( memory is unstable and get corrupted when using fast paging |
| 00:53 |
|
s/get/gets |
| 00:55 |
|
tch__: I rebuilt 3.11 with GIC support but hangs after a while on XO-4 |
| 00:55 |
|
tch__: however the second core runs! :) |
| 00:56 |
|
http://infocenter.arm.com/help[…]16b/Cacddhga.html |
| 00:56 |
gonzalo__ |
bashintosh, i am courious about the state of advance of the new video driver too |
| 00:57 |
bashintosh |
gonzalo__: the low level driver is complete however there's missing integration for X11 and multiple pixel shader |
| 00:57 |
|
gonzalo__: looks like a month of work left but hopefully we can start testing something earlier |
| 00:58 |
|
anything else? |
| 00:58 |
gonzalo__ |
:) |
| 00:58 |
|
paulcotton, when is the meeting about journal design? |
| 00:59 |
bashintosh |
tuesday AEST gonzalo__ |
| 00:59 |
|
:) |
| 00:59 |
gonzalo__ |
our Monday |
| 00:59 |
bashintosh |
gonzalo__: yes sir |
| 01:00 |
gonzalo__ |
thanks! :) |
| 01:00 |
bashintosh |
anything else for this meeting? paulcotton walterbender gonzalo__ Niraj tch__ |
| 01:00 |
walterbender |
not from me |
| 01:00 |
tch__ |
nothing from my side |
| 01:00 |
gonzalo__ |
I wonder if america was the new world, what is australia :) |
| 01:00 |
bashintosh |
#endmeeting |
| 01:00 |
meeting |
Meeting ended Fri Aug 29 01:00:49 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4) |
| 01:00 |
|
Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/o[…]-28T23:36:35.html |
| 01:00 |
|
Log: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/o[…]14-08-28T23:36:35 |