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#olpc-admin, 2009-01-13

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Time Nick Message
16:06 hhardy hi ed
16:06 dogi hi hhardy
16:06 cjl hi guys
16:06 deep Hi All
16:06 edmcnierney Hello, hhardy - nice to see everyone.  And relatively promptly, too!
16:06 Agenda items at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/VIG#[…]_for_next_meeting
16:07 hhardy, will you drive meetingbot?
16:07 hhardy yes
16:07 <-- gives a stern look to meetbot
16:07 dogi :P
16:07 edmcnierney And does meetbot return the favor?
16:08 hhardy sometimes he kicks me for spamming the channal
16:08 edmcnierney OK, I'd like to get started so we can move things along.
16:08 hhardy usually when I do this:
16:08 adric hhardy: He does that out of luv.
16:08 hhardy #Agenda
16:08    *  Identify owners for critical existing services
16:08          o Regular responsibilities formerly handled by hhardy
16:08          o Mission-critical EXISTING services requiring regular care
16:08          o No new services to be added
16:08    * Ideatorrent is set up (Dogi)
16:08    * Improving documentation process and availability wiki git
16:08    * Need cluebot or similar for wiki spam issue
16:08    * Sugar and library list admin help needed
16:08    * New business
16:09 edmcnierney Well, hhardy was right about that one.
16:09 cjl oops, there goes the flood gate
16:09 hhardy am back
16:10 edmcnierney I am primarily concerned that we have eyes on the ball for all current activities - things that need care and attention on a relatively frequent basis, so let's go to the first topic.
16:11 hhardy - still here?
16:11 cjl well for starters ther eare 150-odd open tickets in RT sysadmin queue (most owned by hhardy).
16:12 hhardy I am in the proceess of disowning them
16:12 edmcnierney cjl: Right.  Do you (or hhardy, when he returns) have a recommendation on how to address them?
16:12 Oh, sorry, hhardy - OK, thanks.
16:12 hhardy if anyone wants to facilitate the process is fine to make all my tickets owned "Nobody" for now
16:12 cjl hhardy: I can do a bulk update
16:13 hhardy is ok with me if ed approves
16:13 edmcnierney hhardy: Do you think that's reasonable?  It would be nice to know a way of preventing relatively-important items from getting lost.
16:13 hhardy they are still prioritized
16:13 edmcnierney That Nobody guy doesn't get a lot of work done.
16:13 hhardy someone else should take ownership of them all
16:13 tell me who to give them to or do you want to parcel them out?
16:14 or leave alone for now?
16:14 edmcnierney Any volunteers?  I'm happy to help with tickets, but it's not wise to make me the bottleneck - I've got too many other bottlenecks on my head already.
16:14 hhardy interesting image
16:15 edmcnierney How about cjl does a bulk update to Nobody and hhardy then continues the same disowning process in top-down priority order (transferring from Nobody, that is).
16:15 cjl queue = sysadmin owner = hhardy, search (probably have to steal first) then update multiple tickets owner = nobody.
16:16 edmcnierney Sound OK, cjl and hhardy?
16:16 hhardy not sure I understand the proposal
16:16 all to Nobody then I do what?
16:16 edmcnierney You then continue with the reassignment of tickets.  But instead of reassigning them from you to someone else, you reassign from Nobody to someone else, in top-down priority order.
16:17 That way we limit your time investment to the most important tickets.
16:17 hhardy honestly I have no idea who to give them to
16:17 cjl edmcnierney  are you suggesting that hhardy start assigning them to others?  RT tickets work better as pulls than pushes.
16:17 edmcnierney hhardy: OK, perhaps then I misunderstood your "process of disowning them".
16:18 cjl: Yes, I agree (pull vs. push).  I'm just trying to ensure we don't ignore these Nobody tickets.
16:18 hhardy my process of disowning is close ones which should obviously be closed, update a few things which are noted and then give them to nobody
16:18 edmcnierney Would we collectively prefer to leave them as Nobody and have us all pick from that queue?
16:18 hhardy thats my suggestion
16:18 edmcnierney hhardy: OK, thanks.  So that's essentially the same thing, then.
16:19 Sound good to everyone else?
16:19 hhardy ok will do might take me till Monday to do them all
16:19 cjl hhardy, I would venture t osay tha your manual review is probably best then.  hhardy assigned acts as flag for you to look at it.
16:19 hhardy yes but dont assign anything new to me pls
16:19 cjl Gives best chance of closing them.
16:19 hhardy I will read tickets but not to own them
16:20 and can't even promise to do anything in a timely manner until my own situation is stabilized
16:20 cjl hhardy, if anyone assigns to you, just assign it right back.
16:20 hhardy nod
16:20 Culseg hhardy can use Comments in moving to Nobody
16:20 edmcnierney hhardy: That sounds fine to me - thanks for the help.
16:20 hhardy ok
16:20 cjl Which means there needs to be a review on owner = Nobody status = open .  
16:21 hhardy what was your priority rubric?
16:21 hhardy 0 is doesnt matter if never done, 50 = chuck or NN asked for it NOW
16:21 10 is normal open priority, 20 is what they age to
16:22 edmcnierney I would like to talk about things which might require regular attention, to see how we can handle them.  I'm now receiving hourly emails from logcheck on RT, and they mostly seem to be uninteresting fluff.  But I'm not sure how I would recognize interesting fluff when it is included.  I'm just using this as an example - are there other "regular maintenance" items that are particularly urgent?
16:23 We have a number of less-urgent maintenance tasks, like editing mailing lists, deprovisioning accounts, etc. that will be more complicated to figure out.
16:23 hhardy just the noraml check the filesystems, logfiles, top
16:23 cjl edmcnierney: yes, I sent you and dogi some thoughts on that . . been there done that, stole the T-shirt.
16:24 hhardy make sure websites working ok
16:24 edmcnierney cjl: Oh, thanks - didn't see that - yes, we're not the first ones to invent this problem.
16:24 hhardy check recent changes on wiki in case a spam or blanking attack
16:25 cjl hhardy: I would say wiki patrol is something that can be left to vols.
16:25 hhardy cjl: generally speaking yes
16:25 edmcnierney Do we think volunteer wiki-watching is working OK or do we need to change something?
16:26 hhardy think it works ok
16:26 edmcnierney Excellent.
16:26 cjl there is the "wiki-gang" list and while there is need for admin support in response to incidents the first line is vols
16:26 edmcnierney: I think we need a bot, but that is just because I am largely the wiki watch. . .
16:26 look at wiki block log, you'll see.
16:27 hhardy we have discussed Cobi's cluebot as a good thing for us to investigate
16:27 cjl I agree it is not an urgent matter for attentiopn.
16:27 edmcnierney OK, thanks.  If that's even a moderately functional setup let's leave it alone, as we have other issues to worry about in the short term.
16:27 cjl and tha wikigang is next level, before VIG or OLPC sysadmin
16:27 hhardy someone needs to ake ownership of the mail system
16:28 cjl Does mbletsas have a role anymore?
16:28 hhardy not only pedal but also the Barracuda since MB is transitioning out
16:28 cjl ah. .
16:28 hhardy pedal = big alias file, a few hosted accounts, and mailman listserver
16:29 edmcnierney right
16:29 I didn't realize there were any hosted accounts, actually.
16:29 hhardy Tyler and some role accounts
16:30 edmcnierney I don't know a thing about Barracuda - anyone but mbletsas manage that?
16:30 hhardy we need to move as much as posisble of the VIG docs on internal wiki to public wiki
16:30 no mb always did it
16:30 dogi not many ... but justin has a hosted email account too
16:30 Culseg who watches or has edit access to laptop.org
16:31 hhardy dogi/seth
16:31 dogi for now necsys is doing that work
16:31 hhardy me and michael and kim and scott, formerly
16:31 cjl edmcnierney: Barracuda is a system that theoretically filters spam, but in practice doesn't to do a very good job.  Look at RT search LastUpdatedBy = cjl status = rejected.
16:32 edmcnierney OK - will do.  I am not a big fan of Barracuda myself.
16:32 hhardy 94% of what barracuda takes in is rejected
16:32 edmcnierney dogi: Doing which work?
16:32 hhardy it does something just not everything
16:32 cjl I'm, running at 98% rejected with my solution (it is about rightA) 94% is too low.
16:33 reubencaron cjl: what is your volume of mail?
16:33 dogi sorry i was thinking about the dns zone file ...
16:33 reubencaron edmcnierney: i can help out with Barracuda
16:33 cjl about 1.5 million/month
16:33 reubencaron cjl: that's some good filtering
16:33 edmcnierney hhardy: I would generally assume that anyone who had edit access to laptop.org still does unless arrangements have been made otherwise.
16:33 cjl sometimes as low as 0.2 % gets through
16:33 afk
16:33 edmcnierney dogi: OK, thanks.
16:34 hhardy I have no knowledge of those accounts being deprovisioned except for me (in process) and some of Kim's accounts
16:35 edmcnierney OK, so mbletsas is the only person with any knowledge at all of Barracuda?  If so I will have to follow up with him for info.
16:35 hhardy edmcnierney: AFAIK, yes
16:36 reubencaron edmcnierney: i've worked with barracuda in the past (before OLPC) it isn't too complex
16:36 edmcnierney Anything else need regular daily attention?  I'm not asking about stuff that breaks, but things that needed hhardy's care and feeding?
16:36 reubencaron: Thanks.  You may get to do so again.
16:37 hhardy check grinch to make sure the updates are getting done daily
16:37 backups of crank and pedal
16:37 reubencaron hhardy: where is documentation of how backups are done?
16:37 hhardy I usually look in the actualy backups to find a file with a recent timestamp
16:37 reubencaron has a restore ever been tested?
16:37 hhardy http://laptop.org/internalwiki[…]hp/Machine:grinch
16:38 reubencaron: not a full restore
16:38 I have brought out individual files and tested large recoveries but not all
16:38 getting swan and owl as hot spares of crnak and pedal is a task I never completed
16:39 I did get pedal booted on swan
16:39 m_stone (fyi, I'm around, so ping me if you want me)
16:39 hhardy but it wasn't a turnkey type of thing yet
16:39 edmcnierney sometimes wonders if we actually speak English here
16:39 hhardy m_stone: cheer
16:40 get hot backups of the critical databases is a should do item for near future
16:40 also a longstonding thing which never got finished
16:41 edmcnierney And how would you define the term "critical databases"?
16:41 adric wiki, RT, and ?
16:41 hhardy rt, trac, wikis
16:41 git
16:41 git just lives in the filesystem tho
16:42 adric dated info here: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC[…]e_Group/Databases
16:42 hhardy #link http://laptop.org/internalwiki[…]hp/Machine:grinch
16:42 edmcnierney adric: OK, but not really helpful.  We'll need to work on these on a case-by-case basis.
16:43 hhardy #topic Regular responsibilities formerly handled by hhardy
16:43 cjl would be nice if teamwiki were working, been down for a while.
16:43 hhardy #topic Mission-critical EXISTING services requiring regular care
16:43 edmcnierney cjl: Sorry, I didn't know that.  But I haven't looked at it in several weeks.
16:44 hhardy the person best capable of maintaining the wikis is SJ
16:44 he doesnt really want that on his plate
16:44 necessarily
16:44 cjl edmcnierney: It is low volume of cahnge, but I'd been building an RT guide for orienting new support gang members.
16:44 edmcnierney cjl: Thanks, that's great.
16:44 hhardy in general most up to date docs are on the machine: pages on internalwiki
16:45 dev doesn't have a decent page yet that needs to be done
16:45 reubencaron cjl: i believe teamwiki is down intentionally
16:45 adric reubencaron: Yes, that was administratively done, afaik
16:46 edmcnierney hhardy: The biggest problem is getting a good reverse index.  It would be nice to start with "Service:RT" instead of "Machine:grinch" sometimes.
16:46 hhardy excellent idea
16:46 #IDEA < edmcnierney> hhardy: The biggest problem is getting a good reverse index.  It would be nice to start with "Service:RT" instead of "Machine:grinch" sometimes.
16:46 edmcnierney reubencaron: I think I vaguely knew about that, but had forgotten.
16:46 Whoa, I had an idea?  Good thing I'm sitting down.
16:46 reubencaron edmcnierney: i'll remind you later
16:46 hhardy lol
16:47 dogi :)
16:47 cjl Is teamwiki going to stay down?
16:47 edmcnierney I just have sometimes found myself floundering around looking for "the xxx is down" and trying to figure out what machine to look at?
16:48 (5 points off for lousy sentence structure)
16:48 adric More old stuff: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC[…]tructure_Group/RT eg: RT is on solar
16:48 hhardy if its good enough for Salinger should be good enough for Ed :)
16:48 dogi hi adric
16:48 edmcnierney adric: Yes, but how would you know to look on that page for RT's hosting info if you didn' t know that already?
16:49 adric well it's symlinked to [[RT]] :) It was work in progress
16:49 hhardy sematic wiki can be used to pull this stuff together in a nice way as Ed suggests
16:50 *semantic
16:50 edmcnierney Right, but one wouldn't even necessarily jump to [[RT]] to begin with, given the sparse state of such information.
16:50 hhardy it jsut needs a category service: and a bunch of redirects made
16:50 edmcnierney I recently told kimquirk I was going to start keeping a rock on my desk, and the next time someone answered a question of mine with "it's in the wiki" I would throw the rock at them.
16:50 adric edmcnierney: Agree. The project to transition data from internal to public wikis (and git) was still revving up...
16:50 edmcnierney kimquirk recommended a foam rock.
16:51 cjl edmcnierney: you'll need a lot of rocks
16:51 hhardy thats an argument for leaving the source docs as semantic wiki docs not flat files of some type or xml
16:51 adric what do you throw for things that arent in the wiki? *shrug*
16:51 edmcnierney adric: No, it's all in the wiki ;)
16:51 reubencaron cjl: no, only for a period of time (teamwiki)
16:51 adric at $realjob, if something is actually in the wiki it's a blasted miracle
16:51 hhardy Ivan used to answer "I checked it into git" he had like 25 million files checked in
16:52 adric edmcnierney: Ahh , well , heh
16:53 hhardy 10 minutes till 5
16:53 edmcnierney So there's some attention we should collectively be paying to machine/database/filesystem backups and documentation.
16:53 I'm not trying to solve all these problems, just identify them.
16:53 dogi dns
16:53 hhardy better organizing existing documentation can and should be done
16:54 theres stuf on all three wikis, and in git, and trac, and rt...
16:54 edmcnierney It would be great it we could get to the "new business" stuff and spend a few minutes on Pootle, too.  OK if we run to 5:30 PM but try really hard to stop then?
16:54 cjl unmadindu: ping
16:55 unmadindu cjl: pong
16:55 deep Pootle is very slow
16:55 hhardy edmcnierney: ok with me
16:55 unmadindu deep: I expect the newer version (1.2) to be slightly faster
16:55 cjl ed mentioned poolte, unmadindu had asked for a oing, should ping _bernie too if that is next topic.
16:56 hhardy #TOPIC pootle transition
16:56 edmcnierney Actually, I think we can skip ideatorrent for now (but let's not add ANY new services to any services anywhere).  And I think we have talked about the other items except the Sugar one.
16:56 hhardy ideatorrent needs to find a home out in the community imho
16:56 edmcnierney Fine - unmadindu and _bernie are pinged and we can talk about Pootle.
16:56 hhardy: Probably, but we're going to skip that for now.
16:56 hhardy it is a nice tool
16:57 ok nm
16:58 cjl So I laid out some ideas in an e-mail jusat to start collecting them on Pootle migration.
16:58 edmcnierney RIght - sorry, I imagined that was on IRC and was looking for it.
16:59 unmadindu the current status is: 1. _bernie is looking for hosting infra, and AFAIK has approached a OSU-OSL 2. I am porting our Git<-->Pootle patches to 1.2 3. I begin to start testing (and packaging) as soon as I know which distribution we are going to run the new installation on
16:59 edmcnierney Is the initial premise reasonable?  That is, to migrate all Pootle data/users/services related to Sugar to a new Pootle instance hosted by Sugar Labs?
17:00 hhardy +1 ed
17:00 cjl It will obviously involve some coordination with SL, which is already looking for hosting set up _bernie is on that (evidence on SL systems mailing list).
17:00 edmcnierney unmadindu: And knowing the distro will let you set up an appropriate vm, right?
17:00 unmadindu edmcnierney: yes - that's my plan of action
17:00 cjl distro will either be CenOS or Gentoo
17:00 unmadindu ok
17:00 edmcnierney So unmadindu can do that in parallel with the "real" setup as soon as the OS question can be answered.
17:01 unmadindu edmcnierney: yes
17:01 cjl CentOS or Gentoo are the two standard images used by prgmr.com for their VM's
17:01 edmcnierney cjl: Sounds fine, then - what needs to happen to get that decision made?
17:01 cjl unmadindu: I will forward some stuff to you from SL systems list (if you aren't on it).  closed archives.
17:01 edmcnierney Is that ball in _bernie's court?
17:02 _bernie cjl: you mean osuosl.org, not prgmr.com
17:02 cjl edmcnierney: yes
17:02 _bernie: glad you showed up, I was dancing as fast as I could :-)
17:02 edmcnierney Doing a nice job of it, too.
17:02 unmadindu would personally prefer CentOS, but can also handle Gentoo if required
17:03 edmcnierney Is there something we need to be doing on the OLPC end in parallel to do any cleanup/prep work?
17:03 cjl _bernie: How does SL (let's say the SLOBs) feel about hosting Pootle?  Should it come up at a SLOBs meeting first?
17:03 unmadindu edmcnierney: I don't think there are any
17:04 edmcnierney unmadindu: I've never done a Pootle migration.  Is there a supported/documented dump/load mechanism?  Anything we need to be hunting for in order to be ready?
17:05 unmadindu edmcnierney: nope, it is mostly a question of moving data files and config files. and I need to port my git<-->pootle patches to the new version of the translate-toolkit
17:05 (translate-toolkit is the backend of Pootle)
17:05 cjl _bernie:  I have mentioned the idea in passing on #sugar and chatted with dfarning, etc. but it might be good to have an offishul SLOBs blessing for the idea.
17:06 unmadindu Pootle uses a flatfile database for user/project config, so things are comparatively simpler
17:06 edmcnierney Fine, so it sounds like VIG folks here are on hold until there's a SL-ready target to aim at.  And when that happens step 1 is unmadindu's VM and patch setup work.
17:06 unmadindu edmcnierney: correct
17:06 edmcnierney In fact, unmadindu and _bernie, is there anything VIG needs to do anywhere in this process?
17:07 cjl Also some prepared communication to L10n lsit as a heads up.
17:07 edmcnierney: may need some admin attention of migrating accounts?
17:08 unmadindu edmcnierney: later on, after the migration - ensuring that dev.laptop.org/translate points/redirects to the SL pootle installation
17:08 edmcnierney cjl: Probably an account review to see if there are some dinosaurs there.
17:08 unmadindu: Yup, should be simple (as long as we don't forget about it!)
17:08 unmadindu yep
17:09 edmcnierney So let's have VIG just be on hold until unmadindu or cjl or _bernie blows a whistle when they're more-or-less-ready.
17:09 unmadindu sounds good to me
17:09 edmcnierney hhardy: Let's switch to the "Sugar and library help needed" item, then.
17:09 cjl edmcnierney: yes, my purpose in raising it was to communicate in advance.
17:10 no surpises that way.
17:10 edmcnierney cjl: Great - thanks.  It's nice to have boring topics.
17:10 hhardy #topic Sugar and library help needed
17:10 edmcnierney Maybe we should get VIG t-shirts that say "we strive for a boring world" or something.
17:10 cjl Nobody ever compalins about the server crash that doesn't happen . .
17:11 hhardy or an interesting world which works predictably
17:11 edmcnierney There were a number of Sugar mailing list migrations that were happening.  Anything that needs assistance?
17:11 cjl localaization lsit may (or may not) be worth moving, not a big deal either way.
17:12 low priority, late occuring item\
17:12 hhardy it would be a Good THing(tm) to review all the mailman lists and who owns them and is subscribed to them
17:12 edmcnierney cjl: Might be low priority, but I'll be dealing with a bunch of mailing list reviews anyway.
17:12 hhardy that would be a time consuming task
17:12 edmcnierney hhardy: Yes, that's what I was referring to.
17:12 cjl hhardy: +1 on culling lsits not needed.
17:12 edmcnierney If the localization list can move then it probably should.
17:13 hhardy many are not listed on the web page summary
17:13 so have to look at the fire system to learn them all
17:13 cjl edmcnierney: Then localization should be reviewed, but not moved until there has been announcement on list :-0
17:13 hhardy some are deleted but still have archives, etc
17:13 edmcnierney hhardy: If you can send me a convenient pointer on how to find all of them, you'll save me a bit of hunting.
17:13 hhardy yep
17:13 edmcnierney cjl: Oh, you're no fun.
17:14 Sorry, I forgot I wanted a boring world.
17:14 cjl We could move then have discussion. . .
17:14 edmcnierney Since I'm going to do list review anyway, let me take a look at that list myself.  Who has been doing the Sugar Labs list setup (I've been watching it, but have forgotten)?
17:15 cjl edmcnierney: I also saw a suggestion on SL to c reate activities list there, maybe another move opportunity.
17:15 hhardy #link pedal: /home/mailman/lists /home/mailman/archives etc.
17:15 edmcnierney Thanks.
17:15 hhardy yw
17:15 edmcnierney cjl: Yes, that's been active recently (the discussion, not the OLPC list).
17:15 Do we have a SL owner for list moves?
17:16 cjl looks at _bernie
17:16 hhardy _bernie: ?
17:16 edmcnierney was looking in _bernie's direction, too.
17:17 _bernie hhardy: sorry, I've been distracted talking with dogi about the pootle move
17:17 cjl maybe if we are very quiet we can catching moving. . .
17:17 _bernie hhardy: I had no time to think about what lists need to be moved
17:18 cjl _bernie: but oyu would be SL contacat for that ?
17:18 hhardy ed wants to know who owns mailing lsit moves to sugarlabs
17:18 *list
17:18 edmcnierney _bernie: Well, I'm going to be doing an OLPC list review anyway, so I can push ones I think are good choices for moving to SL.
17:18 _bernie edmcnierney: ok great.
17:19 hhardy edmcnierney: SJ would be a good person to have input into the triage process I think
17:19 cjl lasts handled by handshake between edmcnierney and _bernie (with or without notifying list members first. . . )
17:19 edmcnierney Sounds like that's the end of that topic; cjl's got it right.
17:19 cjl mumbles preference for with notification. .
17:20 edmcnierney is inclined that way as well
17:20 hhardy would be nice to let people fix their incoming mail filters
17:20 cjl edmcnierney: while we are SL / OLPC handshaking, my email also mentione some voluntary activity migrations tha are happening.
17:20 edmcnierney I realize we have a lot of things to deal with, but this meeting really just highlights the urgent stuff.  We can follow up via email on other things.
17:21 I think it's important to keep this meeting on its usual schedule, even though I'm feeling a bit unprepared today (too many balls in the air).
17:21 cjl sure,  I pointed out some other OLPC clean-up opportunities
17:22 Since tha is a pull and not a push, it is easier.
17:22 hhardy minutes are already posted
17:22 edmcnierney cjl: Thanks.  I don't get to read my afternoon emails until the train ride home.
17:22 Any objections to adjournment, then?
17:22 Please keep those ideas and emails coming!
17:22 hhardy #endmeeting

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