Sugar meeting

All times shown according to UTC.

Time	Nick	Message
16:00	adric	yikes. EZ-Cheez
16:00	hhardy	yeah we lived on that and Tang and Space Food Sticks
16:00		so we could go to Mars
16:00		ok to the business at hand
16:00		#TOPIC
16:01	adric	yep. Tang barcodes got me a map of the Solar System.
16:01	hhardy	#AGENDA
16:01		* new business?
16:01		* how to distribute fedora spin (750 MB download)
16:01		http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/OLPC
16:01		* owl and swan migration
16:01		* database backups, and high availability options for db
16:01		* hhardy: ask noah status of trac
16:01		* dogi: to document meeting bot on wiki
16:01		* dogi: present olpcbox "User VIG"
16:01		* adric: rt status and issues
16:01	mchua	thought we solved the flooding problem last week
16:02	adric	Looks solved, booted him right out. :)
16:02	hhardy	argh bot kicked me for flooding
16:02		lol
16:02	dogi	hi
16:02		ups
16:02	hhardy	bad bot
16:02	dogi	#agreed bad bot
16:02	hhardy	I was a pirate for Halloween and I got so much fun from saying argh I seem to keep saying it
16:03		arghhh!
16:03	adric	Yarr.
16:03	cjl	no botsnacks for meeting
16:03	hhardy	so there is now a fedora OLPC spin
16:03		Jim gettys wants us to distribute it
16:03		I suggested using torrent and he agrees in principle
16:04	edmcnierney	do we know why we need to do this?
16:04	hhardy	is this a project which a VIG person or people want to step up for?
16:04	dogi	* mchua and dogi: internalwiki
16:04		* mchua: gforge
16:04	hhardy	edmcnierney: yes
16:05	dogi	this was mssing
16:05	hhardy	ok dogi noted
16:05	edmcnierney	ok - why? I can download F10 torrents already.
16:05	hhardy	lfaraone had a nice proposal written up about using torrent
16:06	adric	hom much infrastructure does this require ?
16:06	hhardy	ed, you have to ask jg why he's particularly concerned about us needing to host it
16:06		he said he got a spin from Fedora in August and the download was very slow
16:06		bandwidth
16:06		< 1 gb of file space is not a problem
16:06	edmcnierney	Yes, my download was slow, too. So?
16:07	hhardy	I'm a bit concerned about agravating MIT by sucking huge amounts of bandwidth
16:07	adric	Okay so put up a tracker and maybe a coupel seeds, and don't offer FTP? I dont see this as being complicated?
16:07	cjl	hhardy: wouldn't torrent minimize your bandwidth load?
16:07	hhardy	JG and SJ feel strongly about our needing to establish an infrastructure capable of hosting large and high volume collections of media
16:08		cjl: that is the idea
16:08	adric	Okay. Have them get sponsors :) Or cash, that's good too.
16:08		Speaking as a SA at a high bandwidth host .. bandwidth is money and disk is cheap but not free.
16:08	hhardy	adric: that's the general idea yes
16:09		edmcnierney: I invited jg to this meeting but he is otherwise engaged
16:10		ok right now I don't hear anyone wanting to own facilitate fedora spin downloads
16:10		should we take this as a VIG action item?
16:10	kimquirk	not me
16:10	cjl	try talking to lfaraone about it, he might be keen.
16:10	hhardy	I think we will take the proposal of seeding torrents and pass it back to jg then
16:11	edmcnierney	ok - I'm not sure we need this. It sounds like a bit of a knee-jerk reaction to a problem we don' t really need to solve ourselves.
16:11	hhardy	yes
16:11	kimquirk	agreed
16:11	adric	agree
16:11	hhardy	+1
16:11	edmcnierney	We should realize that F10 will ship in a few weeks and there will be a BIG spike in interest.
16:11	mchua	+1
16:11	edmcnierney	BTW, has anyone had a FAST torrent download at 1CC?
16:12	hhardy	seems pretty fast
16:12	dogi	jupp
16:12	cjl	doesn't seem to solve and immediate problem, question is whether hosting (say for content collections) is on the horizon so this provides a low-risk entry point.
16:12	edmcnierney	I found that downloading the ISO image from a mirror was much faster, and wondered if there wasn't something unique to the torrent arrangement. Why should Fedora torrents be slow?
16:12	adric	cjl:
16:12	hhardy	if MIT is bandwidth-limiting ptp sessions perhaps
16:13	adric	feh. cjl: I'm not sure a one-spin sol'n would scale usefully to "content collections"
16:13	hhardy	many schools take this approach
16:13	dogi	ptp = peer to peer?
16:13	hhardy	dogi: yes
16:13	cjl	adric not about full-scale, about getting feet wet with tools and process fo seeding, etc.
16:13	edmcnierney	OK, I agree with bouncing it back to jg. Maybe I'll just restart bittorrent-curses on my laptop and it will solve his problem :)
16:13	hhardy	+1 ed
16:14	adric	cjl: Hmm,i see your point.
16:14	cjl	little late this year, geese gone already.
16:14	hhardy	lol
16:15	dogi	:)\
16:15	hhardy	the basic point is, this is going slowly, is close to done and need to buckle down and get both mirrors up, then have a week or two of testing to see what if anything bloke
16:15		*broke
16:16	adric	related: when do we expect g1g1 2008 machines to be delivered ?
16:16	hhardy	if someone wants to kibbitz I'll set a time to chat on irc
16:16		I don't know
16:16	edmcnierney	adric: I'll defer to kimquirk, but we should expect them to be arriving immediately after the Nov. 17 onsale date.
16:17	cjl	hhardy: what can be done to get you some protected time to focus on that work (e..g poing of VIG).
16:17	edmcnierney	I would not be surprised to find machines being turned on on Nov. 18.
16:17	kimquirk	agreed, the laptops will stop shipping out of amazon warehouses on Nov 17th
16:17	adric	Oooh, okay so 18 nov then. thanks
16:17	edmcnierney	kimquirk: s/stop/start/
16:17	hhardy	adric not for public repeating please
16:18	adric	course not :) for infrastructure planning
16:18	hhardy	thx
16:18		now that dogi is on staff I have the opportunity to have him handle the front line tech support while I lock myself in machine room
16:19	cjl	hhardy: That's good.
16:19	adric	ooh, grads Dogi
16:19	hhardy	I did a triage of the sysadmin tickets
16:19	dogi	:)
16:19	hhardy	grats Dogi!
16:19		cheers
16:19	dogi	thx
16:20	hhardy	one big item is provisioning git repositories
16:20		it would be good if that could happen right away as people get all fired up and lose momentum if they have to wait a few weeks to get going
16:21		provisioning git repositories could possibly be a VIG task
16:21		the scripts could be run via sudo so the exposure would be limited
16:21		that would take a thing from the plate of Dogi and me except to say, "approved"
16:22		we could even think about modifying the scripts so they could be run by the user
16:22		but having VIG take that task is something we could discuss
16:23		tomorrow I will probably sleep in but I think I will tackle owl/swan on Thurs and Fri afternoon from 1-5 edt if anyone wants to join in
16:23		email me or get me on this chan if so
16:23	cjl	how many people currently have priv-level to do this git provisioning? How many people fall inside umbrella of being trusted enough to do this?
16:24	hhardy	if we make the scripts sudo-only then I think those I have ethics statements from could do it
16:25		the worst risk is they do it wrongly and it has to be fixed
16:26	adric	is there much more to making git repo than svn or cvs? ignorant
16:26	hhardy	I'm not presenting this as an aciton item but it is my response of what could we do to free up some time
16:26		since we have scripts to do it it is easy
16:26		with some improvements it could be totally automated
16:26	cjl	hhardy: understood. I keep raising the point about freeing up your time as counter-programming to "let's do more things" :-)
16:26	hhardy	cjl: thanks
16:27		we do tend to go off on the blue sky a lot
16:27	adric	if that is what's eating your time, then yes, let's automate and diffuse it
16:27	hhardy	the biggest time eater is front line tech support and I can't really push that off
16:27		this is the next biggest thing after that and purchasing probably
16:27	cjl	Ther are more things we should do, but we can only do some of them if we free up your time.
16:28	hhardy	yes
16:28		adric: the ticket triage fell out into some usable categories we can use in rt I think
16:28	adric	ah, yay ")
16:29	hhardy	let me add you all to the doc
16:29	cjl	hhardy: I'll take a pass at your front-line tech support. Can we get a tape loop of me saying "Reboot your machine, it's the sunspot sycle".
16:30	hhardy	http://spreadsheets.google.com[…]aF0wLI48KHA&hl=en
16:30	adric	Wire up the excuse deck to the RT autoresponder ?
16:30	hhardy	cjl: lol
16:30	adric	hhardy: "adricnetgmail.com, but that email address doesn't have permissio"
16:32	cjl	hhardy: adric I'm taking a first pass at content/vol/help cats.
16:32	hhardy	adric: added that addr now
16:33		kimquirk made a good point
16:33		it would be good, once the mirrors are set up, if the database mirrors could be updated in realtime
16:33	adric	cjl, mchua: Any word on that from SG? I'll ask in my section of the agenda
16:34	hhardy	so there would not be a day of lost data if we fell over to the mirror
16:34	adric	DB mirrors? are what platform? Not replicated?
16:34	hhardy	mysql or postgres, ubuntu, no
16:34	mchua	adric: no, I think hhardy passed it on to holt as an SG thing, haven't heard back since
16:34		adric: (re: categories)
16:35	cjl	hhardy: having real-time mirroring (and if you get fancy fail-over) is a real warm fuzzy feeling.
16:35	hhardy	holt will log in and say something about categories
16:36		cjl you have done this in mysql/postgres?
16:36	cjl	I run my critical database systems on an Oracle Failsafe cluster
16:36	kimquirk	...sorry... distracted...
16:36	cjl	Sorry, commercial stuff here mostly.
16:36	hhardy	we need something like that for our db
16:36		cjl: care to take a look for solutions that make sense for olpc to do similar?
16:36	adric	mysql replication is pretty good (and free)
16:36	cjl	hhardy: I remember pointing to some sort of failover utils for linux once.
16:37	adric	they also have (mysql) clustering and HA stuffs
16:37	hhardy	adric: want to start a section on the VIG page to discuss high availability for the db's?
16:37	lfaraone	(sorry guys, but I'm not avalible, so anything bittorrent etc should be tabled to next week)
16:37		*avalible atm , as you've figured :P
16:37	hhardy	lfaraone: there was discussion of seeding torrents for the OLPC Fedora spin
16:38	adric	hhardy: Okay, sure ACTION: start outling database availabilty solutions on wiki
16:38	hhardy	excellent
16:38	lfaraone	hhardy: ok, what was the resolution?
16:38	cjl	hhardy: I know some guys who are heavy into postgres for commercial systems. I'm on their scientific advisory board, I'll ask for ideas.
16:39	hhardy	ACTION ITEM: cjl will ask about postgres HA
16:39	cjl	We've got an SAB meeting coming up, Roatan :-)
16:39	hhardy	lfaraone the resolution was it is a good idea but nobody stepped up to volunteer to do it
16:39	edmcnierney	I've used both PostgreSQL and MySQL in mirrored configs - takes some attention but nothing too fancy. I'd think it's part of the investment we need to make in understanding how to manage the DB systems we use.
16:39	hhardy	+1 edmcnierney
16:39	cjl	Whcih d oyou guys use more postgres or mysql?
16:39	edmcnierney	Do we currently use both? And if so, do we need to?
16:40	hhardy	mysql
16:40	adric	edmcnierney: Aye. I'm up on the mysql side of that from work, clueless on how PG does it
16:40	hhardy	mostly mysql
16:40	lfaraone	hhardy: ah, well, I might be able to get to it nextweek.
16:40	cjl	What is on postgres and can you lose it entirely?
16:40	adric	mysql replication is one way, master slave, slave pulls .. can do two to get mirroring
16:40	hhardy	ACTION ITEM: hh prepare a list of db and where they live, and dependencies
16:40	edmcnierney	Perhaps there's a way to remove the "mostly"? I think both are find apps, but there's a lot of value in reducing 2 to 1 - either one is fine.
16:41	cjl	edmcnierney: +1
16:41	edmcnierney	s/find/fine/
16:41	hhardy	agree
16:41	cjl	yes, db's are find apps.
16:41	edmcnierney	true, true
16:41	cjl	when they work
16:41	edmcnierney	Or perhaps select apps?
16:42	hhardy	#agenda rt ticket categories
16:42	cjl	hhardy: fyi http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refma[…]ysql-cluster.html
16:42	edmcnierney	adric: Can you handle setting up MySQL mirroring? Do we know who knows how PostgresSQL is used?
16:42		I'd be happy to consult on PostgreSQL-MySQL migration help - I've gone both ways.
16:43	hhardy	postgres is used on dev for trac
16:44		and that leads nicely to next topic
16:44		noah says he doesnt have a great need for additional trac admins
16:44	cjl	apparently trac can live on mysql http://www.docunext.com/blog/2[…]/trac-with-mysql/
16:44	adric	mysql of sqlite3, for trac these days, yeah
16:45	hhardy	the last time I needed someting changed on the back end he had it done in < 30 min so he is lurking.... somewhere
16:46		its not a terrible idea for someone to become the trac "understudy" (see Adam I didn't say minion) :)
16:46	adric	Ooh. Do understudy\ies get better money than minions?
16:46	hhardy	so if you are interested to help with trac, pls email noahl.o and cc me
16:47		lol
16:47		dogi: ping
16:48	cjl	adric: both pay better than henchman (which doesn't come with much life insurance coverage for obvious reasons).
16:48	dogi	#topic olpcbox VIG
16:48	hhardy	#topic olpcbox VIG
16:48	cjl	What exactly does that mean?
16:49	dogi	yesterday over night i had a little idea
16:49	adric	userbxes are .. widgets on User:username pages on wiki
16:49	dogi	http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Dogi
16:49	cjl	k
16:49	hhardy	he dogi, is that enough boxes? lol
16:49	dogi	http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Template:User_VIG
16:49	adric	I faked on for SG for mine, User:Adricnet
16:50	dogi	maybe someboby improves my VIG pirate flag
16:50		so next point
16:50	cjl	kinda dark isn't it . . seems sinister.
16:51	adric	I'm not against the Jolly Roger for VIG...
16:51	dogi	lol
16:51		:)
16:51	hhardy	http://bp1.blogger.com/_BcYhpp[…]_05-olpc_flag.jpg
16:52	dogi	but you know it s a wiki ... :)
16:52		for me it would be nice cause automatic Categorie adding
16:53	hhardy	http://dev.laptop.org/~cjb/halloween/DSCN1251.JPG
16:53	dogi	hhardy: nice
16:53	adric	hhardy: Is that you< then ? Cheers!
16:53	hhardy	yep
16:53	cjl	well YO ho ho is close to XO ho ho
16:54	adric	Rapier? Foil? Epee .. I should be able to tell, alas..
16:55	hhardy	saber
16:55		#topic meetbot docs
16:55	cjl	should be cutlass. . .tsk.
16:56	hhardy	we all work with what we have :)
16:56	dogi	http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Dogi/meeting
16:56	hhardy	I'm also holding it sideways
16:56		so as not to point at people
16:57	edmcnierney	edmcnierney is losing sight of the agenda here
16:57	hhardy	excellent docs
16:57		does it write to the wiki yet?
16:57	dogi	no #vote for now i have to fix the problem
16:57		no :)
16:57	hhardy	#topic rt status
16:58		adric, state of the rt?
16:58		edmcnierney probably wants to not have this mtng runneth over
16:58	adric	Sure, It's up and full of spam.. er, stars
16:58	edmcnierney	something like that :)
16:58	adric	mchua, cjl: Want to chime in further on categories?
16:58	hhardy	heh still dont understand that movie
16:59		canoeberry: ping
16:59	adric	Book makes slightly more sense .. The author had to explain it in person quite a lot, even to cabbies.
16:59		Any word from vendors or jguy on spam solutions?
16:59	cjl	I'm going to take a swing at vol/content/help cats. Throw it at the wall and see what sticks.
17:00	hhardy	the gist of cb's statement to me was the Sunday meeting of support gang was cancelled
17:00	adric	cjl: Great. You knnow how to get at the current list that's in use?
17:00	cjl	By wall I mean will send ot sg list and cc kimquirk
17:00	hhardy	so it hasn't been hashed out as far as help categories
17:00	adric	hhardy: Cancelled, okay.
17:00	cjl	adric: I just copied off RT, will send to you for confirmation.
17:00	adric	kimquirk: Any word from mgmt on Categories?
17:01		cjl: Best link I hve is http://rt.laptop.org/Admin/Cus[…]/Modify.html?id=2 Please don't change :)
17:01	mchua	adric: nothing on categories from me, but I'll implement them in the deployment tech support queue when they're up
17:01	adric	mchua: Roger :)
17:01	hhardy	adric pls look at the categories in my ticket triage spreadsheet, see if that is a good starting point for sysadmin queue cats
17:01	adric	hhardy: Right, will do.
17:02	cjl	adric: I am going to try to address multiple stakeholder interests in my proposal, I'm actually sort of good at that and from having resolved 200+ and rejected 2500+ tix, I've got a sense of what is in there.
17:02	hhardy	ACTION ITEM: adric to review hhardy's ticket traige spreadsheet for categorys for sysadmin rt queue
17:02	adric	cji: Please do :) Gannbatte!
17:02	hhardy	guys I'm going to push through so ed can go home we can revisit this in the aftermeeting
17:03		#topic mchua and dogi: internalwiki
17:05	is4	hhardy, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moa
17:05	cjl	mchua dogi ?
17:05	hhardy	hows the progress on the wiki upgrade?
17:05	mchua	well, I filed a ticket as hhardy and kimquirk suggested last week
17:06		and it sounds like dogi took that ticket - dogi ?
17:06	hhardy	frances is showing me a picture of a maori hunting a moa
17:06	dogi	jupp
17:06	hhardy	I have no idea why
17:06	dogi	so for me the only question is have i to do that or VIG
17:06	hhardy	status of upgrade, eta on completing?
17:07		you have to do it cause it needs root
17:07		or I do it or mchua does
17:07	mchua	and access to NDA'd internalwiki data
17:07	cjl	can't really be handled by VIG
17:07	dogi	ok
17:07		somebody to assist me?
17:07		:)
17:08	hhardy	sj, seth, mchua or francesca are the most familiar
17:08	mchua	dogi, I can point you towards all the upgrading mediawiki howtos you need, and be on standby on IRC when you do the upgrade
17:08	hhardy	except francesca isnt an employee
17:08	mchua	and test it afterwards
17:08		dogi: is there any other kind of help that you would need?
17:08	dogi	thx thats fine :)
17:09	hhardy	make sure to do full backup 1st
17:09		full backup of the wiki data
17:09	mchua	dogi: cool, just ping me on IRC when you're going to start, or if you have questions (email me if you want me to be online at a particular time)
17:09	hhardy	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Backup
17:09	mchua	#LINK http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Backup
17:09	dogi	mchua: ok
17:09	hhardy	#LINK http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Backup
17:10	cjl	try to make sure you have a good back-up.
17:10	mchua	welcome Ian_Daniher
17:11	adric	Ho Ian_Daniher !
17:11	Ian_Daniher	hey
17:11	cjl	dogi: and do the XML dump to as recommended on tha page (belt and suspenders).
17:11	hhardy	mchua
17:11	mchua	iirc, the decision on gforge was that this wasn't a VIG thing
17:11	hhardy	gregdek sent me an email about gforge
17:11	dogi	Ian_Daniher: http://meeting.laptop.org/olpc[…]0081104_1600.html for read back
17:11		hi ian
17:11	mchua	gregdek brought up the "we should bless a good community solution" issue, which I wholeheartedly agree with
17:12	hhardy	saying in essence that if people in the community have taken the initiative o do something, it costs us nothing to "bless" the project
17:12	mchua	yes - I think some sort of encouragement from 'on high' saying "if this works out, we can talk about blessing it" would be great
17:12	hhardy	I guess the risk is it goes badly wrong and we get some egg on face
17:12	Ian_Daniher	thanks dogi
17:13	hhardy	but if having afew @laptop.org email addresses, mailing lists, rt queues will help thats not a large cost
17:13	mchua	if hhardy or someone would not mind sending an email to the gitorious folks working on this giving them a +1 go-ahead, that would go a long way towards getting them excited and in the loop, methinks
17:13		from talking with the gitorious folks, they can do everything (setup, etc.) without any olpc resources whatsoever
17:14		but yeah, any encouragement (esp. in the form of personal thank-yous and resources) that we can throw their way would be cool
17:14	hhardy	ACTION ITEM: hh to write up letter of encouragement for gitorious project and run it by kimquirk
17:14	cjl	Certainly someone should ask the question about using hte OLPC logo (before the guys at gitorious do)
17:14	mchua	and we could also encourage them to hang out on this channel to update us on what's happening, ask questions, etc.
17:14	hhardy	yes
17:14	mchua	is4: ^^^
17:15		cjl: is4 and sj have been working on the "how do you use the olpc logo" thing
17:15		that's all for gforge from me
17:15	hhardy	ok thats about it for today if you are a usa-ian, GO VOTE
17:15		#endmeeting

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#olpc-admin, 2008-11-04