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#olpc-admin, 2008-11-04

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
16:00 adric yikes. EZ-Cheez
16:00 hhardy yeah we lived on that and Tang and Space Food Sticks
16:00 so we could go to Mars
16:00 ok to the business at hand
16:00 #TOPIC
16:01 adric yep. Tang barcodes got me a map of the Solar System.
16:01 hhardy #AGENDA
16:01    *  new business?
16:01    * how to distribute fedora spin (750 MB download)
16:01 http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/OLPC
16:01    * owl and swan migration
16:01    * database backups, and high availability options for db
16:01    * hhardy: ask noah status of trac
16:01    * dogi: to document meeting bot on wiki
16:01    * dogi: present olpcbox "User VIG"
16:01    * adric: rt status and issues
16:01 mchua thought we solved the flooding problem last week
16:02 adric Looks solved, booted him right out. :)
16:02 hhardy argh bot kicked me for flooding
16:02 lol
16:02 dogi hi
16:02 ups
16:02 hhardy bad bot
16:02 dogi #agreed bad bot
16:02 hhardy I was a pirate for Halloween and I got so much fun from saying argh I seem to keep saying it
16:03 arghhh!
16:03 adric Yarr.
16:03 cjl no botsnacks for meeting
16:03 hhardy so there is now a fedora OLPC spin
16:03 Jim gettys wants us to distribute it
16:03 I suggested using torrent and he agrees in principle
16:04 edmcnierney do we know why we need to do this?
16:04 hhardy is this a project which a VIG person or people want to step up for?
16:04 dogi      * mchua and dogi: internalwiki
16:04     * mchua: gforge
16:04 hhardy edmcnierney: yes
16:05 dogi this was mssing
16:05 hhardy ok dogi noted
16:05 edmcnierney ok - why?  I can download F10 torrents already.
16:05 hhardy lfaraone had a nice proposal written up about using torrent
16:06 adric hom much infrastructure does this require ?
16:06 hhardy ed, you have to ask jg why he's particularly concerned about us needing to host it
16:06 he said he got a spin from Fedora in August and the download was very slow
16:06 bandwidth
16:06 < 1 gb of file space is not a problem
16:06 edmcnierney Yes, my download was slow, too.  So?
16:07 hhardy I'm a bit concerned about agravating MIT by sucking huge amounts of bandwidth
16:07 adric Okay so put up a tracker and maybe a coupel seeds, and don't offer FTP? I dont see this as being complicated?
16:07 cjl hhardy: wouldn't torrent minimize your bandwidth load?
16:07 hhardy JG and SJ feel strongly about our needing to establish an infrastructure capable of hosting large and high volume collections of media
16:08 cjl: that is the idea
16:08 adric Okay. Have them get sponsors :) Or cash, that's good too.
16:08 Speaking as a SA at a high bandwidth host .. bandwidth is money and disk is cheap but not free.
16:08 hhardy adric: that's the general idea yes
16:09 edmcnierney: I invited jg to this meeting but he is otherwise engaged
16:10 ok right now I don't hear anyone wanting to own facilitate fedora spin downloads
16:10 should we take this as a VIG action item?
16:10 kimquirk not me
16:10 cjl try talking to lfaraone about it, he might be keen.
16:10 hhardy I think we will take the proposal of seeding torrents and pass it back to jg then
16:11 edmcnierney ok - I'm not sure we need this.  It sounds like a bit of a knee-jerk reaction to a problem we don' t really need to solve ourselves.
16:11 hhardy yes
16:11 kimquirk agreed
16:11 adric agree
16:11 hhardy +1
16:11 edmcnierney We should realize that F10 will ship in a few weeks and there will be a BIG spike in interest.
16:11 mchua +1
16:11 edmcnierney BTW, has anyone had a FAST torrent download at 1CC?
16:12 hhardy seems pretty fast
16:12 dogi jupp
16:12 cjl doesn't seem to solve and immediate problem, question is whether hosting (say for content collections) is on the horizon so this provides a low-risk entry point.
16:12 edmcnierney I found that downloading the ISO image from a mirror was much faster, and wondered if there wasn't something unique to the torrent arrangement.  Why should Fedora torrents be slow?
16:12 adric cjl:
16:12 hhardy if MIT is bandwidth-limiting ptp sessions perhaps
16:13 adric feh. cjl: I'm not sure a one-spin sol'n would scale usefully to "content collections"
16:13 hhardy many schools take this approach
16:13 dogi ptp = peer to peer?
16:13 hhardy dogi: yes
16:13 cjl adric not about full-scale, about getting feet wet with tools and process fo seeding, etc.
16:13 edmcnierney OK, I agree with bouncing it back to jg.  Maybe I'll just restart bittorrent-curses on my laptop and it will solve his problem :)
16:13 hhardy +1 ed
16:14 adric cjl: Hmm,i see your point.
16:14 cjl little late this year, geese gone already.
16:14 hhardy lol
16:15 dogi :)\
16:15 hhardy the basic point is, this is going slowly, is close to done and need to buckle down and get both mirrors up, then have a week or two of testing to see what if anything bloke
16:15 *broke
16:16 adric related: when do we expect g1g1 2008 machines to be delivered ?
16:16 hhardy if someone wants to kibbitz I'll set a time to chat on irc
16:16 I don't know
16:16 edmcnierney adric: I'll defer to kimquirk, but we should expect them to be arriving immediately after the Nov. 17 onsale date.
16:17 cjl hhardy: what can be done to get you some protected time to focus on that work (e..g poing of VIG).
16:17 edmcnierney I would not be surprised to find machines being turned on on Nov. 18.
16:17 kimquirk agreed, the laptops will stop shipping out of amazon warehouses on Nov 17th
16:17 adric Oooh, okay so 18 nov then. thanks
16:17 edmcnierney kimquirk: s/stop/start/
16:17 hhardy adric not for public repeating please
16:18 adric course not :) for infrastructure planning
16:18 hhardy thx
16:18 now that dogi is on staff I have the opportunity to have him handle the front line tech support while I lock myself in machine room
16:19 cjl hhardy: That's good.
16:19 adric ooh, grads Dogi
16:19 hhardy I did a triage of the sysadmin tickets
16:19 dogi :)
16:19 hhardy grats Dogi!
16:19 cheers
16:19 dogi thx
16:20 hhardy one big item is provisioning git repositories
16:20 it would be good if that could happen right away as people get all fired up and lose momentum if they have to wait a few weeks to get going
16:21 provisioning git repositories could possibly be a VIG task
16:21 the scripts could be run via sudo so the exposure would be limited
16:21 that would take a thing from the plate of Dogi and me except to say, "approved"
16:22 we could even think about modifying the scripts so they could be run by the user
16:22 but having VIG take that task is something we could discuss
16:23 tomorrow I will probably sleep in but I think I will tackle owl/swan on Thurs and Fri afternoon from 1-5 edt if anyone wants to join in
16:23 email me or get me on this chan if so
16:23 cjl how many people currently have priv-level to do this git provisioning?  How many people fall inside umbrella of being trusted enough to do this?
16:24 hhardy if we make the scripts sudo-only then I think those I have ethics statements from could do it
16:25 the worst risk is they do it wrongly and it has to be fixed
16:26 adric is there much more to making git repo than svn or cvs? *ignorant*
16:26 hhardy I'm not presenting this as an aciton item but it is my response of what could we do to free up some time
16:26 since we have scripts to do it it is easy
16:26 with some improvements it could be totally automated
16:26 cjl hhardy: understood.  I keep raising the point about freeing up your time as counter-programming to "let's do more things" :-)
16:26 hhardy cjl: thanks
16:27 we do tend to go off on the blue sky a lot
16:27 adric if that is what's eating your time, then yes, let's automate and diffuse it
16:27 hhardy the biggest time eater is front line tech support and I can't really push that off
16:27 this is the next biggest thing after that and purchasing probably
16:27 cjl Ther are more things we should do, but we can only do some of them if we free up your time.
16:28 hhardy yes
16:28 adric: the ticket triage fell out into some usable categories we can use in rt I think
16:28 adric ah, yay ")
16:29 hhardy let me add you all to the doc
16:29 cjl hhardy: I'll take a pass at your front-line tech support.  Can we get a tape loop of me saying "Reboot your machine, it's the sunspot sycle".
16:30 hhardy http://spreadsheets.google.com[…]aF0wLI48KHA&hl=en
16:30 adric Wire up the excuse deck to the RT autoresponder ?
16:30 hhardy cjl: lol
16:30 adric hhardy: "adricnet@gmail.com, but that email address doesn't have permissio"
16:32 cjl hhardy: adric I'm taking a first pass at content/vol/help cats.
16:32 hhardy adric: added that addr now
16:33 kimquirk made a good point
16:33 it would be good, once the mirrors are set up, if the database mirrors could be updated in realtime
16:33 adric cjl, mchua: Any word on that from SG? I'll ask in my section of the agenda
16:34 hhardy so there would not be a day of lost data if we fell over to the mirror
16:34 adric DB mirrors? are what platform? Not replicated?
16:34 hhardy mysql or postgres, ubuntu, no
16:34 mchua adric: no, I think hhardy passed it on to holt as an SG thing, haven't heard back since
16:34 adric: (re: categories)
16:35 cjl hhardy: having real-time mirroring (and if you get fancy fail-over) is a real warm fuzzy feeling.
16:35 hhardy holt will log in and say something about categories
16:36 cjl you have done this in mysql/postgres?
16:36 cjl I run my critical database systems on an Oracle Failsafe cluster
16:36 kimquirk ...sorry... distracted...
16:36 cjl Sorry, commercial stuff here mostly.
16:36 hhardy we need something like that for our db
16:36 cjl: care to take a look for solutions that make sense for olpc to do similar?
16:36 adric mysql replication is pretty good (and free)
16:36 cjl hhardy: I remember pointing to some sort of failover utils for linux once.
16:37 adric they also have (mysql) clustering and HA stuffs
16:37 hhardy adric: want to start a section on the VIG page to discuss high availability for the db's?
16:37 lfaraone (sorry guys, but I'm not avalible, so anything bittorrent etc should be tabled to next week)
16:37 *avalible atm , as you've figured :P
16:37 hhardy lfaraone: there was discussion of seeding torrents for the OLPC Fedora spin
16:38 adric hhardy: Okay, sure ACTION: start outling database availabilty solutions on wiki
16:38 hhardy excellent
16:38 lfaraone hhardy: ok, what was the resolution?
16:38 cjl hhardy: I know some guys who are heavy into postgres for commercial systems.  I'm on their scientific advisory board, I'll ask for ideas.
16:39 hhardy ACTION ITEM: cjl will ask about postgres HA
16:39 cjl We've got an SAB meeting coming up, Roatan :-)
16:39 hhardy lfaraone the resolution was it is a good idea but nobody stepped up to volunteer to do it
16:39 edmcnierney I've used both PostgreSQL and MySQL in mirrored configs - takes some attention but nothing too fancy.  I'd think it's part of the investment we need to make in understanding how to manage the DB systems we use.
16:39 hhardy +1 edmcnierney
16:39 cjl Whcih d oyou guys use more postgres or mysql?
16:39 edmcnierney Do we currently use both?  And if so, do we need to?
16:40 hhardy mysql
16:40 adric edmcnierney: Aye. I'm up on the mysql side of that from work, clueless on how PG does it
16:40 hhardy mostly mysql
16:40 lfaraone hhardy: ah, well, I might be able to get to it nextweek.
16:40 cjl What is on postgres and can you lose it entirely?
16:40 adric mysql replication is one way, master slave, slave pulls .. can do two to get mirroring
16:40 hhardy ACTION ITEM: hh prepare a list of db and where they live, and dependencies
16:40 edmcnierney Perhaps there's a way to remove the "mostly"?  I think both are find apps, but there's a lot of value in reducing 2 to 1 - either one is fine.
16:41 cjl edmcnierney: +1
16:41 edmcnierney s/find/fine/
16:41 hhardy agree
16:41 cjl yes, db's are find apps.
16:41 edmcnierney true, true
16:41 cjl when they work
16:41 edmcnierney Or perhaps select apps?
16:42 hhardy #agenda rt ticket categories
16:42 cjl hhardy: fyi http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refma[…]ysql-cluster.html
16:42 edmcnierney adric: Can you handle setting up MySQL mirroring?  Do we know who knows how PostgresSQL is used?
16:42 I'd be happy to consult on PostgreSQL-MySQL migration help - I've gone both ways.
16:43 hhardy postgres is used on dev for trac
16:44 and that leads nicely to next topic
16:44 noah says he doesnt have a great need for additional trac admins
16:44 cjl apparently trac can live on mysql  http://www.docunext.com/blog/2[…]/trac-with-mysql/
16:44 adric mysql of sqlite3, for trac these days, yeah
16:45 hhardy the last time I needed someting changed on the back end he had it done in < 30 min so he is lurking.... somewhere
16:46 its not a terrible idea for someone to become the trac "understudy" (see Adam I didn't say minion) :)
16:46 adric Ooh. Do understudy\ies get better money than minions?
16:46 hhardy so if you are interested to help with trac, pls email noah@l.o and cc me
16:47 lol
16:47 dogi: ping
16:48 cjl adric: both pay better than henchman (which doesn't come with much life insurance coverage for obvious reasons).
16:48 dogi #topic olpcbox VIG
16:48 hhardy #topic olpcbox VIG
16:48 cjl What exactly does that mean?
16:49 dogi yesterday over night i had a little idea
16:49 adric userbxes are .. widgets on User:username pages on wiki
16:49 dogi http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Dogi
16:49 cjl k
16:49 hhardy he dogi, is that enough boxes? lol
16:49 dogi http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Template:User_VIG
16:49 adric I faked on for SG for mine, User:Adricnet
16:50 dogi maybe someboby improves my VIG pirate flag
16:50 so next point
16:50 cjl kinda dark isn't it . . seems sinister.
16:51 adric I'm not against the Jolly Roger for VIG...
16:51 dogi lol
16:51 :)
16:51 hhardy http://bp1.blogger.com/_BcYhpp[…]_05-olpc_flag.jpg
16:52 dogi but you know it s a wiki ... :)
16:52 for me it would be nice cause automatic Categorie adding
16:53 hhardy http://dev.laptop.org/~cjb/halloween/DSCN1251.JPG
16:53 dogi hhardy: nice
16:53 adric hhardy: Is that you< then ? Cheers!
16:53 hhardy yep
16:53 cjl well YO ho ho is close to  XO ho ho
16:54 adric Rapier? Foil? Epee .. I should be able to tell, alas..
16:55 hhardy saber
16:55 #topic meetbot docs
16:55 cjl should be cutlass. . .tsk.
16:56 hhardy we all work with what we have :)
16:56 dogi http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Dogi/meeting
16:56 hhardy I'm also holding it sideways
16:56 so as not to point at people
16:57 edmcnierney edmcnierney is losing sight of the agenda here
16:57 hhardy excellent docs
16:57 does it write to the wiki yet?
16:57 dogi no #vote for now i have to fix the problem
16:57 no :)
16:57 hhardy #topic rt status
16:58 adric, state of the rt?
16:58 edmcnierney probably wants to not have this mtng runneth over
16:58 adric Sure, It's up and full of spam.. er, stars
16:58 edmcnierney something like that :)
16:58 adric mchua, cjl: Want to chime in further on categories?
16:58 hhardy heh still dont understand that movie
16:59 canoeberry: ping
16:59 adric Book makes slightly more sense .. The author had to explain it in person quite a lot, even to cabbies.
16:59 Any word from vendors or jguy on spam solutions?
16:59 cjl I'm going to take a swing at vol/content/help cats.  Throw it at the wall and see what sticks.
17:00 hhardy the gist of cb's statement to me was the Sunday meeting of support gang was cancelled
17:00 adric cjl: Great. You knnow how to get at the current list that's in use?
17:00 cjl By wall I mean will send ot sg list and cc kimquirk
17:00 hhardy so it hasn't been hashed out as far as help categories
17:00 adric hhardy: Cancelled, okay.
17:00 cjl adric: I just copied off RT, will send to you for confirmation.
17:00 adric kimquirk: Any word from mgmt on Categories?
17:01 cjl: Best link I hve is http://rt.laptop.org/Admin/Cus[…]/Modify.html?id=2 Please don't change :)
17:01 mchua adric: nothing on categories from me, but I'll implement them in the deployment tech support queue when they're up
17:01 adric mchua: Roger :)
17:01 hhardy adric pls look at the categories in my ticket triage spreadsheet, see if that is a good starting point for sysadmin queue cats
17:01 adric hhardy: Right, will do.
17:02 cjl adric: I am going to try to address multiple stakeholder interests in my proposal, I'm actually sort of good at that and from having resolved 200+ and rejected 2500+ tix, I've got a sense of what is in there.
17:02 hhardy ACTION ITEM: adric to review hhardy's ticket traige spreadsheet for categorys for sysadmin rt queue
17:02 adric cji: Please do :) Gannbatte!
17:02 hhardy guys I'm going to push through so ed can go home we can revisit this in the aftermeeting
17:03 #topic mchua and dogi: internalwiki
17:05 is4 hhardy, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moa
17:05 cjl mchua dogi  ?
17:05 hhardy hows the progress on the wiki upgrade?
17:05 mchua well, I filed a ticket as hhardy and kimquirk suggested last week
17:06 and it sounds like dogi took that ticket - dogi ?
17:06 hhardy frances is showing me a picture of a maori hunting a moa
17:06 dogi jupp
17:06 hhardy I have no idea why
17:06 dogi so for me the only question is  have i to do that or VIG
17:06 hhardy status of upgrade, eta on completing?
17:07 you have to do it cause it needs root
17:07 or I do it or mchua does
17:07 mchua and access to NDA'd internalwiki data
17:07 cjl can't really be handled by VIG
17:07 dogi ok
17:07 somebody to assist me?
17:07 :)
17:08 hhardy sj, seth, mchua or francesca are the most familiar
17:08 mchua dogi, I can point you towards all the upgrading mediawiki howtos you need, and be on standby on IRC when you do the upgrade
17:08 hhardy except francesca isnt an employee
17:08 mchua and test it afterwards
17:08 dogi: is there any other kind of help that you would need?
17:08 dogi thx thats fine :)
17:09 hhardy make sure to do full backup 1st
17:09 full backup of the wiki data
17:09 mchua dogi: cool, just ping me on IRC when you're going to start, or if you have questions (email me if you want me to be online at a particular time)
17:09 hhardy http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Backup
17:09 mchua #LINK http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Backup
17:09 dogi mchua: ok
17:09 hhardy #LINK http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Backup
17:10 cjl try to make sure you have a good back-up.
17:10 mchua welcome Ian_Daniher
17:11 adric Ho Ian_Daniher !
17:11 Ian_Daniher hey
17:11 cjl dogi:  and do the XML dump to as recommended on tha page (belt and suspenders).
17:11 hhardy mchua
17:11 mchua iirc, the decision on gforge was that this wasn't a VIG thing
17:11 hhardy gregdek sent me an email about gforge
17:11 dogi Ian_Daniher: http://meeting.laptop.org/olpc[…]0081104_1600.html for read back
17:11 hi ian
17:11 mchua gregdek brought up the "we should bless a good community solution" issue, which I wholeheartedly agree with
17:12 hhardy saying in essence that if people in the community have taken the initiative o do something, it costs us nothing to "bless" the project
17:12 mchua yes - I think some sort of encouragement from 'on high' saying "if this works out, we can talk about blessing it" would be great
17:12 hhardy I guess the risk is it goes badly wrong and we get some egg on face
17:12 Ian_Daniher thanks dogi
17:13 hhardy but if having afew @laptop.org email addresses, mailing lists, rt queues will help thats not a large cost
17:13 mchua if hhardy or someone would not mind sending an email to the gitorious folks working on this giving them a +1 go-ahead, that would go a long way towards getting them excited and in the loop, methinks
17:13 from talking with the gitorious folks, they can do everything (setup, etc.) without any olpc resources whatsoever
17:14 but yeah, any encouragement (esp. in the form of personal thank-yous and resources) that we can throw their way would be cool
17:14 hhardy ACTION ITEM: hh to write up letter of encouragement for gitorious project and run it by kimquirk
17:14 cjl Certainly someone should ask the question about using hte OLPC logo (before the guys at gitorious do)
17:14 mchua and we could also encourage them to hang out on this channel to update us on what's happening, ask questions, etc.
17:14 hhardy yes
17:14 mchua is4: ^^^
17:15 cjl: is4 and sj have been working on the "how do you use the olpc logo" thing
17:15 that's all for gforge from me
17:15 hhardy ok thats about it for today if you are a usa-ian, GO VOTE
17:15 #endmeeting

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