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#dextrose, 2011-01-17

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18:28 bernie dfarning_afk, silbe, m_anish, tch, SMParrish: this is what olpc is planning to do for their next build: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User[…]cle_thoughts#What.27s_coming_in_S_0.90
18:31 m_anish bernie, do the olpc builds use record-86?
18:32 bernie, they'll have to use fixed ui versions if they're moving 0.88>=
18:33 silbe bernie: rather interesting that they are going to pull from us.
18:33 tch bernie: do they still plan to stick to the "upstream first" policy?
18:34 silbe tch: they've already made exceptions to that policy. Hence the "Port any pending patches from 0.84" task.
18:52 dfarning_afk is now known as dfarning
18:55 bernie m_anish: I think they use what dsd gave them. and it's buggy, yes.
18:55 dfarning bernie,  If I understand langhoff, OLPC-A's intentions are very similar to ours.... create the best product they can with their available resources.  upstream if possible but don't let it block them.
18:55 bernie m_anish: i tested it in one of the firsr f14 builds released by dsd
18:55 dfarning: yup. i spoke with martin
18:56 dfarning: also regarding the xs
18:56 dfarning nice.
18:56 bernie dfarning: he said they'll announce something in 2 days
18:56 dfarning: xs 0.7 will be based on centos5 (if it comes out)
18:57 dfarning bernie, Nice, I came to the same decision:)
18:59 bernie, with regard to the laptop Fedora version and sugar version.  I am confident that they will come to a good decision.
18:59 bernie dfarning: it seems sensible, but IF centos6 comes out contains a big IF.
19:00 dfarning: centos is having project management issues according to osnews or lwn (can't remember where i've read it)
19:01 dfarning: i think they should use fedora 15, not fedora 14. with the time it takes us to stabilize a build, fedora 14 will be one year old when it gets to the users.
19:01 dfarning bernie, yes,  IIRC the guy who owned the  Centos web address and and bank account went missing.
19:04 bernie, shoot, I just checked  their website... it looks a bit neglected.
19:06 bernie, does the fedora version matter that much?  For the most part we can treat the XO as an appliance for support purposes?
19:10 bernie dfarning: i think 90% of the work can be done on any recent fedora release and then rebased on centos if needed
19:11 dfarning: i don't believe in LTS distros very much. unless they also upgrade the kernel to pick new drivers, which would force us to issue a new xs every year anyway.
19:15 dfarning bernie let's follow up on this later. Is anything is blocked by not making a decision with in the next couple of days?
19:20 bernie, nothing to worry about wrt centos.  it take 4-6 week for them to do a release.
19:21 bernie, but RHEL 6.0 came out the same time as 5.6 and the developers are giving 5.6 priority because it has a larger userbase that depends on it.
20:03 dfarning is now known as dfarning_afk
20:31 bernie dfarning_afk: yeah, let's wait until olpc makes the first move
20:32 dfarning_afk is now known as dfarning
20:33 dfarning is now known as dfarning_afk
20:36 silbe bernie: I just hope they'll go for 0.91 instead of 0.90... The only interesting difference are the cleanup series, and they are exactly the reason I'd prefer both OLPC and Dextrose to base on 0.91 instead of 0.90.
20:57 bernie silbe: i told them to wait for 0.92... they will not ship anytime soon anyway
20:57 silbe: we need to stay closer to upstream (time-wise) in order to facilitate patch exchange
20:58 silbe: however, if,despite my attempts olpc ends up using 0.90 we'd probably be better off doing the same. it saves a lot of time to piggy back on their bugfixes
20:59 silbe: also, from the perspective of deployments, it helps to say "use dextrose, it's just the same of olpc os plus bugfixes and features needed by deplotments like you"
20:59 silbe: let's always keep in mind who we're working for: deplyoments.
20:59 silbe bernie: I'm not sure about saving time. The patches need to flow upstream anyway.
21:00 bernie and also deployments :)
21:00 silbe bernie: via Dextrose, yes. :)
21:00 bernie silbe: olpc will upstream their patches anyway. if they choose the wrong version of sugar it will be them doing more work, not us.
21:02 silbe: btw, 0.92 does not seem like a release that will see many useful features. is it really worth doing it?
21:02 silbe: is erikos planning to do release management at all?
21:03 silbe bernie: well, it would still be more work for me because I'm also upstream and need to check the patches against the latest version. By basing on 0.90 instead of 0.91 I would in theory need to test the patches twice: once upstream and once for Dextrose.
21:03 bernie silbe: aren't you rebasing the dextrose patch set on 0.90 already?
21:04 silbe bernie: Unless Simon disagrees (I'm waiting for an answer to my mail from yesterday evening), I'm going to land a nice large set of Dextrose patches in 0.92. We still have two weeks left. :)
21:04 bernie silbe: is your email public?
21:04 silbe bernie: and if I get around to do it, I'll even land version support, which would be the killer feature for 0.92.
21:04 bernie: nop.
21:05 bernie: I'm basing the patch set on 0.90.x by including all of the upstream 0.91 patches in it.
21:05 bernie silbe: ok, if you manage to merge most of dextrose in 0.92, then it would make sense for us to use it directly.
21:05 silbe bernie: nop, private email.
21:06 bernie silbe: silbe the non-invasive things such as the resource monitor can stay out of tree, it doesn't cost much to rebase.
21:06 silbe bernie: I wouldn't say "most" because there are some patch sets I don't like myself (Backup/Restore, accessibility), but it's going to be a rather large chunk.
21:07 bernie silbe: sure, those are also not very invasive
21:07 silbe: well, accessibility is invasive
21:07 silbe both of them had conflicts I needed to resolve
21:08 bernie silbe: if we moved to sugar-core, we'd have fewer conflicts in the future (no Makefile.am)
21:08 silbe but they'll need to stay downstream for now regardless of what we base on :)
21:08 bernie silbe: so, why are we rebasing dextrose on top of 0.90 if we're going to skip it?
21:08 silbe yes, but that train is already gone for 0.92.
21:08 bernie: because there's no 0.91 tarball.
21:09 (yet)
21:09 bernie silbe: who cares? we can make one any time with "make dist"
21:09 silbe: how do you think i made the first 0.88 rpms for dextrose? :-)
21:09 silbe bernie: it makes no difference.
21:10 bernie make dist-bz2
21:10 silbe: let's just hope olpc picks 0.92...
21:11 silbe bernie: I'm developing on top of mainline/master. For exporting the patch set, I'm exporting v0.90.x..dextrose-3 which basically updates the sources from v0.90.x to 0.91 first and then applies the Dextrose 3 patches on top.
21:11 bernie: +5
21:26 dfarning_afk is now known as dfarning
21:45 bernie silbe: btw, michael made some stats of sugar development from git: you're the #1 contributor since a few months ago
21:46 silbe: congrats!
21:46 silbe bernie: yeah, I've read. And who's #1 if you count the style cleanup as a single commit? :)
21:46 bernie: thx!
21:47 (though I have to admit each single patch of that series was a lot of work)
21:50 bernie silbe: took several measurements (lines added, removed and changed, number of patches...)
21:51 silbe:  i mostly appreciate lines removed, followed by lines changed. added lines may or may not be an advantage :-)
21:51 silbe :)
21:55 bernie SMParrish: around?
21:55 SMParrish: would you like to work on a dextrose for virtualbox build? shouldn't take much time
21:55 SMParrish: a lot of people are asking us...
21:57 meeting_ is now known as meeting
22:00 silbe bernie, SMParrish: please make sure it's generic enough to run in KVM, too. Shouldn't be hard - we already produce an ext3 fs image that both KVM and VirtualBox are / should be able to use. All you need to do is make the image bootable on a regular PC (non-OLPC kernel, grub).
23:04 bernie silbe: i think we just need to add grub, a normal kernel and a bunch of X drivers
23:05 silbe: oh, you said that already :)
23:05 silbe bernie: sounds about right to me. vmware X driver would be great as KVM supports it.
23:06 bernie: if possible even virtio drivers, but that's "deluxe" stuff ;)
23:06 silbe has quit IRC
23:09 bernie SMParrish: pls ping me when you get online

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