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| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 01:57 | m_anish is now known as m_anish_afk | |
| 08:07 | dfarning_afk is now known as dfarning | |
| 09:06 | dfarning is now known as dfarning_afk | |
| 09:20 | dfarning_afk is now known as dfarning | |
| 11:47 | alsroot_away is now known as alsroot | |
| 12:05 | m_anish_afk is now known as m_anish | |
| 13:35 | silbe <silbe!~silbe twin.sascha.silbe.org> has joined #dextrose |
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| 16:04 | satellit_afk <satellit_afk!~satellit2002:d064:95e7:0:219:d1ff:fe73:14e6> has joined #dextrose |
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| 16:49 | tch <tch!~tch@r190-132-66-45.dialup.mobile.ancel.net.uy> has joined #dextrose | |
| 16:56 | dfarning is now known as dfarning_afk | |
| 16:57 | dfarning_afk is now known as dfarning | |
| 17:15 | dfarning is now known as dfarning_afk | |
| 17:31 | dfarning_afk is now known as dfarning | |
| 20:30 | m_anish | alsroot, tch ping! |
| 20:30 | was preparing lunch + going thru sugar-meeting logs | |
| 20:33 | alsroot | m_anish: lets move to #sugar, bernie is worried that it is too silent these days :) |
| 20:33 | m_anish | alsroot, ah just saw tht :)! |
| 20:43 | alsroot | forgot about absent logs for #sugar |
| 20:44 | m_anish | "kill the name picker that pops up when quitting activities (EASY)" already has a patch in the m-l if not build |
| 20:44 | "Figure out why so many control panels require restarting Sugar, and fix them not to (MEDIUM)" should probably be dx2 | |
| 20:45 | alsroot | do we have some kind of consensus for that? |
| 20:45 | ..based on feedback from the field | |
| 20:45 | m_anish | kill the "Mute" function on the volume icon in the frame (EASY) -- probably has a patch :) |
| 20:45 | alsroot | m_anish: maybe just one-by-one? |
| 20:46 | m_anish | alsroot, we need a channel with bernie on it :-) , all these nitpicks are from bernie's time in py |
| 20:46 | tch | pong |
| 20:47 | yup, the name picker was something bernie learnt from his testing at caacupe, no body where using it and it was causing confusion.. they thought it was annoying | |
| 20:48 | m_anish | alsroot, silbe tch i'm okay with discussing today or tomorrow |
| 20:48 | tch | me too, the more we are the better the discussion, but lets not procrastinate it much |
| 20:49 | alsroot | I think we need to handle every day meetings, not 1h but just 15-20min to sync our work |
| 20:49 | m_anish | tch, alsroot lets go thru the list once, just to sync up... |
| 20:50 | tch, should have an idea abt some of the tasks :) | |
| 20:50 | tch | sure, |
| 20:51 | m_anish | silbe, "Notification system (tch)" is done and included in build |
| 20:51 | bernie <bernie!~berniegateway/shell/sugarlabs.org/x-vqlbmpuszxyzxkkw> has joined #dextrose |
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| 20:51 | silbe | tch: most of us know (already knew) the name picker is a bad idea and needs to go. The real problem is replacing it with something better. |
| 20:51 | bernie | hello. am i too late? |
| 20:51 | tch | bernie: nope just began ;) haha |
| 20:52 | m_anish | okay everyone's here for the moment :) |
| 20:52 | silbe | m_anish: interesting. I really need a Dextrose fs tarball so I can try it out... |
| 20:52 | m_anish | we're discussing the TODO w.r.t dx2 |
| 20:53 | alsroot | m_anish: lets start from the 1st entry then.. |
| 20:53 | bernie | silbe: I'm running a build |
| 20:53 | tch | alsroot: +1 |
| 20:53 | m_anish | alsroot, okay! |
| 20:54 | starting from "Display lease info in 'About my computer' and notifiy if lease is about to expire" | |
| 20:54 | silbe | bernie: great! please post it on dextrose@ and I'll try it out tomorrow. |
| 20:54 | bernie | m_anish: seems easy |
| 20:54 | alsroot | +1 |
| 20:54 | m_anish | is being worked upon, is a requirement for dx2 |
| 20:54 | bernie | silbe: k |
| 20:54 | tch | +99 very useful |
| 20:55 | m_anish | "OLPC Microformat compatible activity updater" is done, lazy /me needs to upstream it |
| 20:55 | upstream=dx/mainline | |
| 20:55 | bernie | m_anish: yes please |
| 20:55 | m_anish: is anyone working on the aslo side of it? | |
| 20:55 | alsroot | +1, but what about removing/or-not regular ASLO one? |
| 20:55 | m_anish | "Yum based updater for sugar" is in dx-py builds being tested |
| 20:55 | alsroot | ..what the current situation, (I'm personally not sure do we need to remove it) |
| 20:55 | bernie | alsroot: maybe you had already written the server-side code? or someone else? |
| 20:56 | m_anish | alsroot, ah yes! we need to figure that out... |
| 20:56 | bernie, alsroot i have a list of activities with me they want included in the build and another list for the XS | |
| 20:56 | bernie | alsroot: if we add microformat support to aslo, then we don't need the old format in sugar |
| 20:56 | alsroot | bernie: server side code works on activities-testing |
| 20:57 | bernie | alsroot: cool |
| 20:57 | m_anish | bernie, will i need to host it on the pyedu servers because internet would be slow |
| 20:57 | alsroot | bernie: but we need to improve current microformat patch to handle all installed activities then |
| 20:57 | tch | m_anish: actually thats what they want.. |
| 20:57 | m_anish | alsroot, ?? the current patch handles existing+new activities |
| 20:58 | bernie | alsroot: oh, I thought it was already that way |
| 20:58 | m_anish | current=newly submitted :) |
| 20:58 | tch | m_anish: because caacupe has a special optic fiber to Py edu offices |
| 20:58 | bernie | alsroot: since we only have less than 300 activities, how about sending them all? |
| 20:58 | alsroot | ok, then. /me was thinking it is only about collections |
| 20:58 | bernie | alsroot: ah, I'm an idiot... it doesn't work like apt/yum... |
| 20:58 | alsroot | bernie: ASLO can support "all" argument, it is not problem |
| 20:59 | bernie | alsroot: ah ok. |
| 20:59 | m_anish: so I guess we need to make the url configurable via gconf? | |
| 21:00 | m_anish | bernie, okay, will make change before committing upstream |
| 21:00 | move to next item? | |
| 21:00 | bernie | +1 |
| 21:00 | m_anish | "Clear and complete error messages (even for crashes)" |
| 21:01 | alsroot | thats the question... |
| 21:01 | tch | yeah, we need to stop on this topic for a bit.. |
| 21:01 | alsroot | tch: in my mind it is pretty doable |
| 21:02 | simple scheme w/ uploading logs on actiivty fails and on sugar-session as well | |
| 21:02 | bernie | alsroot: I think all we need to do is catch exceptions in the shell (in the place where we currently log them) and bring up an alert |
| 21:02 | tch | i think the 2 main features we need is to send backtraces from unhandled activities or even sugar itself.. AND all the information that could be related in case of a sugar crash.. |
| 21:04 | mukul_afk: read this when you are back | |
| 21:04 | alsroot | tch: do we really need to handle crashes? maybe just start from python traces/logs |
| 21:04 | bernie: imho it will be to verbose and unexpected for regular users | |
| 21:05 | tch | alsroot: the problems that scares me the most are actually the one that crashes sugar.. because that is when users start to go into panic mode |
| 21:05 | bernie | tch: in addition to reporting the bug, we also want to tell the user "oops, an error occurred", so they're not left there wondering why the file hasn't been copied (for example) |
| 21:05 | tch | bernie: +1 |
| 21:06 | alsroot | tch: I guess, "Send an info" dialog after sugar crash won't hale much here:) |
| 21:06 | *help | |
| 21:06 | m_anish | alsroot, tch , bernie "oops, an error ocurred" doesn't give you a soln, but better than having nothing :) |
| 21:07 | silbe has quit IRC | |
| 21:07 | alsroot | m_anish: bernie: we can upload unhadled shell exceptions as well, not one-by-one, but at once (somehow) |
| 21:07 | bernie | m_anish: we could tell them "open the Log activity for details" |
| 21:08 | alsroot | thinks that alerts fro unhadled shell exceptions is too overkill for users |
| 21:08 | tch | bernie: hmm, |
| 21:08 | bernie | alsroot: yes. were you thinking of resuscitating wadeb's patch? |
| 21:08 | alsroot | bernie: similar, but more implicit (but configurable) |
| 21:09 | bernie | tch: currently, things fail silently in case of any bug, which is very user-unfriendly... |
| 21:09 | tch: remember copying a file to a full usb stick? | |
| 21:09 | alsroot | ie, alerts and "Open Log activity" might be too much, but just a check box to send bug report... |
| 21:09 | bernie | tch: the users think the file has been copied, but in fact there was an I/O error (which is nicely visible in the log) |
| 21:10 | tch | i really dislike the alerts for this kind of situations, |
| 21:10 | bernie | alsroot: if we already have the bug reporting feature, then yeah. but I thought that was too much work for dx2 |
| 21:10 | tch | and "open the log" relies on the wrong asumption that the user are able to understand the logs |
| 21:10 | bernie | tch: well, who wouldn't? bugs shouldn't exist! |
| 21:10 | alsroot | bernie: +1 for fails like "cannot copy", when I was talking about implicit reports I was thinking only about unhandled exceptions |
| 21:10 | bernie | tch: but they *do* exist and so we have to tell the users somehow |
| 21:11 | alsroot | bernie: I'm sure from tech pov, it is pretty doable for dx-2 |
| 21:11 | tch | that was one of the motivations for my messages notification system |
| 21:11 | bernie | alsroot: well, all unhandled exceptions happen on some operation that the user wanted to do, and failed |
| 21:11 | m_anish | bernie, alsroot how about just having implicit bug reporting, and having UI modifications go in later through the yum updater. |
| 21:11 | bernie | alsroot: here's another case: user tried to connect to an AP with an accent in the essid. it fails silently, but there's a nice stack trace in the log. |
| 21:12 | m_anish | feels UI needs design discussion |
| 21:12 | alsroot | bernie: yup, we need to handle as much as possible, and for the rest, send reports |
| 21:12 | bernie | m_anish: the error dialog was discussed months ago on sugar-devel, I'm pretty sure |
| 21:12 | alsroot: yes, when we don't handle it's a bug in sugar. | |
| 21:13 | alsroot: but would you keep it quiet to the user? nothing on screen at all? | |
| 21:13 | alsroot: it confuses even developers like me :-) | |
| 21:13 | tch | bernie: if we can use my messages notification to let the users something went wrong + send all relevant logs + a error dialog should be fine (?) |
| 21:14 | m_anish | in eben's words from m-l thread " I'm in favor of showing an error message for an uncaught exception (since |
| 21:14 | feedback is good!), though I caution against displaying the actual | |
| 21:14 | exception string in this instance. It's unlikely to make sense to the | |
| 21:14 | primary audience. Instead, I would generate some friendly message that | |
| 21:14 | lets them know that the action they attempted didn't work as expected, and | |
| 21:14 | alsroot | tch: yup, it might be an option |
| 21:14 | m_anish | then offering a link into the Log activity to learn more should they want |
| 21:14 | bernie | tch: if we already have that... sure. but let's not block this on the notification system or the bug reporting system. it could be 3 lines of code. |
| 21:14 | m_anish | to dig deeper." |
| 21:15 | bernie | m_anish: I agree 100% with eben |
| 21:15 | tch | bernie: the notification thing done and devel a error dialog should not take much |
| 21:16 | bernie | tch: are they going to make it for dx2? it has to be out in less than 2 months. |
| 21:16 | tch | i also do agree with eben's statement |
| 21:16 | alsroot | so, do we have a consensus? "For unhandled exceptions, send a notification w/ "Send report" button" |
| 21:16 | m_anish | tch, alsroot bernie everything seems to fit... flash the notification icon, see a simple error, link to log |
| 21:16 | +send report | |
| 21:16 | +1 from me | |
| 21:16 | bernie | tch: plus, if we do the basic thing of just putting up an error message, upstream will accept it without complaining |
| 21:17 | tch | we can always change the way we display the "friendly error message" ;) |
| 21:18 | bernie | tch: sure, once it's in, it would be easy to extend / improve. |
| 21:18 | tch | but the way we catch we unhandled exception + collect the logs + use a error dialog should not change |
| 21:18 | alsroot | tch: for sending errors, I have two python snippets for cli and srv for bug reporting, ping me later.. |
| 21:18 | bernie | tch: err, you're right on this. probably abrt needs a completely different method. I have no idea how it does it |
| 21:19 | tch | alsroot: i will :) |
| 21:19 | bernie | oh, but we decided not to use abrt, right? |
| 21:19 | alsroot: cool | |
| 21:19 | alsroot | bernie: "but we decided not to use abrt" I'm +1 for that (at least for the first time) |
| 21:20 | tch | +1 to go for simplicity for now.. |
| 21:20 | bernie | alsroot: curious to see your client code too |
| 21:20 | tch | me too |
| 21:21 | m_anish | alsroot, tch can you keep mukesh_dce in the loop on this, he'd be happy to work on it :) |
| 21:21 | alsroot | it just HTTP POST code.. |
| 21:21 | srv: http://pastebin.com/0yss13P4 cli: http://pastebin.com/LtSSJy6i | |
| 21:21 | tch | i pinged him at the beginning ;) |
| 21:21 | so he will read it when hes back | |
| 21:22 | m_anish | tch, i think u pinged mukul (not mukesh) |
| 21:22 | tch | ops!! |
| 21:23 | m_anish | next ... "Checks to prevent installation of incompatible activities" |
| 21:23 | alsroot | tch: also about bugreporing, you can look to wadeb patches, http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/1439 |
| 21:23 | m_anish | tch, we can send him link to log |
| 21:25 | alsroot | ok, I guess we are including this feature to dx-2, and going further? |
| 21:25 | tch | alsroot: ok, i will give it a look too |
| 21:25 | m_anish | alsroot, yeah, +1 |
| 21:25 | tch | alsroot: yep, we should try at least will be extremely useful to have this feedback |
| 21:26 | bernie | I have a build. now testing |
| 21:26 | tch | bernie: does it include last things like notif + updater? |
| 21:26 | + some bug fixes | |
| 21:26 | bernie | tch: I checked out code from git, but there were no patches |
| 21:27 | tch: I did not merge anything myself | |
| 21:27 | alsroot | m_anish: what the next entry in TODO.. |
| 21:27 | m_anish | bernie, hmm, do you want me to push the changes? |
| 21:27 | tch | i see, maybe m_anish can send you what we have added lately locally |
| 21:27 | ? | |
| 21:27 | bernie | tch, m_anish: how about you resend me the patches you'd want me to include in the next build? |
| 21:27 | m_anish | alsroot, Checks to prevent installation of incompatible activities |
| 21:27 | tch | +1 |
| 21:27 | m_anish | bernie, i have them uploaded smwhr, un momente |
| 21:28 | bernie | tch, m_anish: or, if you've already added them to your local repo, just do a push |
| 21:28 | tch | momento* :) |
| 21:28 | m_anish | bernie, there in my local repo yep. |
| 21:28 | tch | jaja +5 for anish spanish skills |
| 21:28 | alsroot | is "incompatible" about sugar version, we already have sugar ranges on ASLO |
| 21:28 | tch | but does sugar block those activities from being installed? |
| 21:29 | or throw a warning? | |
| 21:29 | m_anish | bernie, http://people.sugarlabs.org/an[…]xo-1-builds.patch, http://people.sugarlabs.org/an[…]integration.patch , http://people.sugarlabs.org/an[…]repositorie.patch |
| 21:29 | alsroot | tch: nope |
| 21:29 | tch | should do it? |
| 21:29 | bernie | m_anish: didn't you already have dextrose rpms built with these patches applied? |
| 21:29 | alsroot | do we need this feature? I can implement a mimic for furture sweets' deps "requres" tag |
| 21:29 | bernie | alsroot: +1, I'd postpone this to the next dextrose |
| 21:30 | m_anish | bernie, you mean sugar rpm, yeah |
| 21:30 | bernie | alsroot: checks on aslo aren't sufficient btw, because users are too clever about copying xo bundles on usb sticks and trying to load them on the wrong version of sugar. not having an error message is our fault. |
| 21:31 | alsroot | bernie: if it is real problem in the field, mimic impl is not a probelm for dx-2.. |
| 21:32 | bernie: ok, I'll add simple "requires" tag, it will look like: "requires = sugar > 0.84" | |
| 21:32 | bernie | alsroot: yes, it was a big problem. users were blaming our new version if some old activity did not work on it. from their point of view, it looked like the new version of sugar doesn't work as well as the old one |
| 21:32 | tch | and what sugar do with that? block or warning while installing? |
| 21:32 | bernie | alsroot: cool that's great |
| 21:33 | alsroot | tch: yup, it might an alert |
| 21:33 | bernie | tch: just show an error like: "The bundle FooBar cannot be installed on this version of Sugar" |
| 21:33 | alsroot | bernie: and for launching as well, I guess |
| 21:33 | bernie | tch: if you want to be even nicer, you could add: "Please check $activity_website for an updated version" |
| 21:34 | tch | yeah we need to cover both cases since they can just copy files |
| 21:34 | i like to try to be nice... hahaa | |
| 21:34 | bernie | alsroot: yup |
| 21:35 | alsroot | ok, /me adds himslef as an owner for this feature |
| 21:35 | tch | :) |
| 21:36 | m_anish | alsroot, so this goes into dx2, right! |
| 21:36 | alsroot | m_anish: yup |
| 21:36 | m_anish | alsroot, great! |
| 21:36 | "Make activities work in Gnome without Sugar (controversial)" and "Make Gnome applications work seamlessly within Sugar" | |
| 21:37 | both aren't dx2 goals IMHO | |
| 21:37 | alsroot | sounds too undoable for dx-2 |
| 21:37 | tch | we can put all gnome interaction aside for dx2 |
| 21:37 | +1 | |
| 21:37 | m_anish | "Webkit integration (lucian)" |
| 21:37 | doesn't know its status | |
| 21:37 | tch | either i... |
| 21:37 | bernie | m_anish: are the rpms with those patches of yours already in the dextrose repository? |
| 21:38 | m_anish | bernie,http://download.sugarlabs.org/[…]/rpms-py/i386/os/ |
| 21:38 | dextrose-updater dextrose-updater-gui(tch) and latest sugar | |
| 21:38 | tch | we can discard that gui, |
| 21:39 | bernie | m_anish: but they are only in the -py repo, right? do we want these in the intl builds as well? |
| 21:39 | tch | not that specific rpms but yes the features it includes |
| 21:40 | m_anish | bernie, only in py repo, we could move these to intl repo if no one has a prob with it :) |
| 21:40 | alsroot | so, what about "Webkit integration", afaik it is not yet released (Browse), thus, sounds too early for dx-2 |
| 21:41 | m_anish | alsroot, yeah, i'll try an ping him abt his plans though. |
| 21:41 | tch | lets move on then |
| 21:41 | :) | |
| 21:41 | m_anish | "Faster activity startup / memory savings (quozl)" |
| 21:41 | alsroot | doesn't have any ideas about that |
| 21:42 | m_anish | quozl had done 'something' on this front, but i don't think it ever took patch form on m-l |
| 21:42 | "Integration with social networks" | |
| 21:42 | not for dx2 for me :) | |
| 21:42 | tch | controversy alert! |
| 21:43 | haha | |
| 21:43 | alsroot | +1 |
| 21:43 | m_anish | "Bidirectional Journal gateway for Gnome" |
| 21:43 | tch | yeah, not for dx2 |
| 21:43 | alsroot | "Feature-complete packaging" will be released (I hope), in time w/ 0.92 |
| 21:44 | so, next entry | |
| 21:44 | m_anish | OS: "Panic key" to restore default settings for GNOME and Sugar |
| 21:45 | alsroot | that this feature about? |
| 21:45 | *what | |
| 21:45 | m_anish | has no idea :) |
| 21:45 | bernie, tch ^^ | |
| 21:45 | tch | i think it started when kids accessed to gnome and modified manually sugar config files |
| 21:46 | so, we wanted to have some "reset to default" buttons.. | |
| 21:46 | but .. | |
| 21:46 | since we are no using gnome in caacupe.. we could leave it for the future (?) | |
| 21:46 | bernie | m_anish, tch, SMParrish: are you guys ok if I continue the numbering from where we left with dextrose1? i.e. os430dx2 |
| 21:46 | m_anish | tch, yeah, i was told no gnome for the build i have to give |
| 21:47 | not for dx2 then from me | |
| 21:47 | bernie | someone in an olpcnews comment expressed that changing the naming scheme was confusing to them |
| 21:47 | m_anish: yes, I'm only doing nognome builds for now | |
| 21:47 | m_anish | bernie, np |
| 21:47 | bernie | m_anish: I have not much intestest for gnome, but if a deployment wants it we can do it |
| 21:48 | tch | yeah, so next :) |
| 21:48 | m_anish | <rant>bernie, gnome for me runs insanely slow on xo1</rant> |
| 21:48 | Sugar: "Panic key" to force regenerating datastore index (hold both shifts on boot? hidden ctrl-r hotkey in the journal?) is done... | |
| 21:48 | "Rainbow?" | |
| 21:49 | and "Multiple item selection in the Journal" | |
| 21:50 | tch, bernie re: ^, was it feedback from py? | |
| 21:50 | alsroot | maybe instead of panic key, having CP entry to restart sugar w/ clear ds index |
| 21:50 | bernie | m_anish: at times, rainbow seems to be getting closer... but I'm not sure *when* it will be ready |
| 21:50 | tch | alsroot: don't we already have that? |
| 21:50 | alsroot: i mean in dextrose.. | |
| 21:50 | bernie: ^ | |
| 21:50 | bernie | m_anish: I spoke with m_stone about it last week. he seems to be waiting that the sugar developers do something to revive it, but I'm not sure what this something should be |
| 21:51 | m_anish | tch, alsroot we have that IIRC |
| 21:51 | tch | checks.. |
| 21:51 | bernie | alsroot: we have a menu item on the journal icon, because we couldn't find a better place for it. |
| 21:51 | alsroot | ok, we can exclude this entry then.. |
| 21:51 | bernie | alsroot: we felt that adding one more control panel for the journal would have been overkill |
| 21:52 | tch | ack, its in the journal icon at the top frame bar... |
| 21:52 | in the journal icon palette. | |
| 21:52 | bernie | m_anish: the things we're not doing for dx2, can you please push them to a TODO/Dextrose3 page? |
| 21:52 | m_anish | bernie, hmm, so re: py, this is -1, |
| 21:52 | bernie, sure, will do | |
| 21:53 | alsroot | multiple selection might be too late for dx2.. (keeping in mind testing and getting feedback) |
| 21:53 | m_anish | "Updater similar to puppet (plain ceibal)" -- we are using yum updater so not for dx2 |
| 21:53 | bernie | m_anish: I think we can cancel this feature and use rpm post-install scriptlets for the same purpose |
| 21:53 | m_anish | "3G connection sharing in Sugar" is already done tch ? |
| 21:53 | tch | yup, done and working |
| 21:53 | m_anish | bernie, yup |
| 21:53 | tch | if you don't trust me call yo my mom, hes using it rofl.. |
| 21:53 | to* | |
| 21:53 | m_anish | "Automatically register to Schoolserver" |
| 21:53 | tch | shes* |
| 21:53 | hahaha | |
| 21:54 | thats an interesting feature.. | |
| 21:54 | bernie | tch: at OLPC-SF, dsd seemed to think that sharing over ad-hoc networks wasn't possible for some reason |
| 21:54 | tch | it is |
| 21:54 | i can tell because i did it and i have been using it :) | |
| 21:54 | bernie | tch: he also thought that ad-hoc could not scale to more than just a 3-4 laptops, which I'm pretty sure is wrong |
| 21:55 | tch | well, that another issue |
| 21:55 | anywyas 3G modems does not provide huge bandwidth in 3rd world.. | |
| 21:55 | so in practical terms does not matter | |
| 21:56 | bernie | m_anish: when you roll new py builds, could you please upload them here? |
| 21:56 | http://download.sugarlabs.org/[…]esting/dxo2/*/py/ | |
| 21:56 | m_anish | bernie, will try from beertarium... not possible from office :) |
| 21:56 | bernie | m_anish: well, you don't have to do it for every new build, because it would take you too long... but it would be good to archive significant builds |
| 21:57 | m_anish | bernie, yep, for eg, starting from the build i hand them over on this tue |
| 21:57 | bernie | m_anish: when the b/w at the office sucks, maybe ask me to check and I could find out who's hogging the net. sure there are people who like torrenting |
| 21:58 | m_anish | bernie, okay |
| 21:58 | tch | just blame on carlos by default |
| 21:58 | haha | |
| 21:58 | bernie | haha |
| 21:58 | m_anish | haha |
| 21:58 | bernie | deme |
| 21:58 | tch | statistics never lie! |
| 21:59 | m_anish | lol :) |
| 21:59 | tch | oh.. something funny.. can you block his mmorpg tpc/udp port? lol |
| 21:59 | tcp* | |
| 21:59 | bernie | tch: lol |
| 21:59 | tch | just kidding |
| 22:00 | m_anish | tch, "Automatically register to Schoolserver" is -1? what abt "Make Schoolserver visible in neighbor view" |
| 22:00 | tch | ;);) |
| 22:00 | bernie | m_anish: too much work, I think, for dx2 |
| 22:00 | m_anish: but it would be AMAZINGLY useful | |
| 22:00 | tch | i like it.. but i have no idea how much effort could take |
| 22:00 | bernie | m_anish: if we disregard the security problems, we could do it from a cron job |
| 22:01 | tch | yeah, we just need someone to config his spy XS and wait for kids to connect to it.. |
| 22:01 | m_anish | bernie, we can always roll patches in via the updater! lets leave for now? |
| 22:01 | bernie | m_anish: dsd might have ideas on how to do the registration securely and non-interactively, but I fear the complexity |
| 22:01 | m_anish: ok | |
| 22:01 | tch | lets move then, |
| 22:01 | m_anish | one table down, two to go |
| 22:02 | "kill the name picker that pops up when quitting activities (EASY)" | |
| 22:02 | tch | i don't see any benefit of seeing the xs there.. anyone else? |
| 22:02 | m_anish | tch, u had a patch for this? |
| 22:02 | tch | yup |
| 22:02 | bernie | m_anish: the reason why this is important is that many users don't register manually, and thus they loose backups and collaboration |
| 22:02 | tch | i just added a gconf value.. so you can disable it.. and a few lines of code to use it.. |
| 22:02 | bernie | m_anish: oh yeah let's kill that crap! |
| 22:02 | m_anish: it won't be missed | |
| 22:02 | m_anish | bernie, so this should be high pri feature for dx-3 or 'dx2-updates' ;) |
| 22:03 | bernie | tch: is the patch in dx already? |
| 22:03 | tch | if anish added my patch, yes. |
| 22:03 | ;) | |
| 22:03 | bernie | haha, now I can do builds in just 7m48s |
| 22:03 | m_anish | tch, oh, right! will do |
| 22:03 | ""Figure out why so many control panels require restarting Sugar, and fix them not to (MEDIUM)"" | |
| 22:04 | tch | that is a huge of work.. because we need to change the whole CP options logic.. |
| 22:04 | m_anish | not probable for dx2, btw, have a dev from india who might be interested in working on it |
| 22:04 | tch | m_anish: +1 |
| 22:05 | m_anish | next ... "kill the "Mute" function on the volume icon in the frame (EASY)" i remember a patch for this on m-l but probably not dx/mainline |
| 22:06 | tch, did you work on this? ^ | |
| 22:07 | tch | nope, it was a guy from india i think |
| 22:07 | alsroot | anyway it should be trivial to implement, if it is ok from user experience pov |
| 22:07 | tch | i think everyone barked when they saw the patch, |
| 22:08 | alsroot: +1 | |
| 22:08 | personally i don't care.. seems to be too trivial to not move on to the next topic haha | |
| 22:09 | m_anish | "Notification system (tch)" is in build and probably going to dx/mainline real soon... |
| 22:09 | "Automated bug reporting tool" already discussed ;) | |
| 22:10 | tch | lets cross fingers.. ;) |
| 22:10 | bernie | m_anish: today I spoke with gary on #sugar. he didn't seem to like the notification system at all |
| 22:10 | m_anish | 2 tables down 1 to go |
| 22:10 | bernie | m_anish: if it doesn't go upstream, it can still go in dextrose and maybe olpc |
| 22:10 | m_anish | bernie, any particular concerns? |
| 22:10 | bernie | tch: is it ready? |
| 22:10 | tch | bernie: i actually implemented based on all his ideas |
| 22:10 | bernie: it is alreayd working | |
| 22:10 | bernie | m_anish: he said he thinks it makes the UI more complex |
| 22:11 | tch | bernie: it is not exactly what he designed , but if you check his design you would understand |
| 22:11 | bernie | m_anish: while I do agree on keeping things *simple*, it doesn't mean that we should not provide feedback to the user for important events. that's not simpler, it's harder. |
| 22:11 | m_anish | bernie, gary was working on a new HIG rev right? |
| 22:12 | tch | bernie: just check what i have already implemented |
| 22:12 | bernie | tch: where can his design be reviewed? |
| 22:12 | tch | bernie: it was on the list |
| 22:12 | bernie: i really like his idea.. | |
| 22:12 | bernie | m_anish: yes, I think so. he's a very good guy... just a little too much of an interface nazi :) |
| 22:13 | tch | bernie: is just too complex to implement now.. and i just want to display text messages!!! |
| 22:13 | bernie: but my implementation is a realistic version of his idea | |
| 22:13 | bernie | m_anish: for an explanation of what I mean, google for "gnome interface nazis" :-) |
| 22:13 | m_anish | bernie, :) , maybe when the updated HIG is out, we'd actually know how to design to get upstreamed easily instead of falling into endless discussions |
| 22:13 | bernie | tch: well, if the dbus side is compatible, why not? |
| 22:13 | tch | it is. ;) |
| 22:14 | bernie | tch: (why not adopt your version now) |
| 22:14 | tch | not clue.. |
| 22:14 | just test my notif and let me know what you think | |
| 22:14 | i tried to take into account ALL the comments from the ml | |
| 22:14 | bernie | tch: where's the patch? |
| 22:14 | tch | on dx ml |
| 22:15 | m_anish | bernie, should be in the sugar rpm on the rpms-py repo |
| 22:15 | tch | are 2 patches, the initial one and some enhancement patch |
| 22:15 | bernie | tch: I know you've done a good job interfacing with upstream lately. it's that upstream is very hard to work with |
| 22:15 | m_anish | tch, ^ (the patch you sent me was the latest) |
| 22:15 | ? | |
| 22:15 | tch | yup |
| 22:16 | the current implementation is really similar to how the current notifications works.. | |
| 22:16 | bernie | m_anish: ah, ok. but not in dextrose's git? do you have push access on dextrose? I don't mind you pushing your patches because I know you're one of those rare developers who test their shit before giving it to others |
| 22:16 | m_anish: otoh, I'd rather not bypass peer reviews | |
| 22:16 | m_anish | bernie, http://download.sugarlabs.org/[…]o.fc13.noarch.rpm has tch notification sys |
| 22:16 | tch | check the ml for usage examples :) |
| 22:16 | bernie | m_anish: yes, but I'm afraid the default dextrose builds fetch from the intl repo only. |
| 22:17 | tch | or just use the update calls |
| 22:17 | m_anish | bernie, i do have push access, i'll do as you say :) |
| 22:18 | bernie | m_anish: I think stuff should go in the py repo only for 2 reasons: (1) to avoid slowing down paraguay when upstream dextrose is blocked for some reason and (2) for stuff that only paraguay wants (but at this time, hopefully we shouldn't have any of those) |
| 22:18 | m_anish: oh, and (3) as a warranty for the future that paraguay will always be able to make changes to their builds (but this will be another repo in the release dir, not testing). | |
| 22:19 | m_anish | bernie, if I have freedom to commit tested patches upstream, i have no problems in doing it |
| 22:20 | bernie | m_anish: yes, I prefer it this way because nowadays I'm always busy at the fsf while you guys work, so I'd be a bottleneck |
| 22:21 | m_anish: normally, it's saner if there's a guy acting as a maintainer in the middle, but we can't have it now | |
| 22:21 | tch | m_anish: you can always ask me for a second opinion :) |
| 22:21 | m_anish | tch, of course! |
| 22:22 | bernie, okay i'll start committing changes upstream | |
| 22:22 | next on the list ... ""Power has only 2 options, they could go into a context menu on the battery icon in the frame"" | |
| 22:22 | tch | not a priority imho |
| 22:23 | alsroot | +1, would be not bad to leave it as is |
| 22:23 | bernie | m_anish: yeah, dx3 |
| 22:24 | m_anish | okay |
| 22:24 | "Backup/restore -> journal (or a schoolserver icon in the mesh view)" | |
| 22:24 | bernie | alsroot: it would be nice, long term, to reduce the number of items in the control panel. now it scrolls and it's pretty unfriendly |
| 22:25 | alsroot: inexperienced users can't find the hidden icons, and the experienced ones don't want to go such a long way just to toggle power management | |
| 22:26 | tch | that would be a good reason to add XS icon in the mesh view, but i don't think it is priority either |
| 22:26 | m_anish | tch, okay, moving on... |
| 22:26 | "touchpad -> device icon on the frame + global keyboard shortcut to switch between resistive and capacitive" | |
| 22:26 | wasn | |
| 22:26 | bernie | dx2 really should be small |
| 22:27 | m_anish | wasn't this done long ago? |
| 22:27 | tch | i already sent a patch for the hotkeys part |
| 22:27 | only the hotkeys part left, which i already done | |
| 22:27 | m_anish | walter's patch for the frame icon? |
| 22:27 | tch, in dx/mainline? | |
| 22:28 | tch | walter's patch is already in |
| 22:28 | in dx | |
| 22:28 | m_anish | tch, yeah, and yours? |
| 22:28 | tch | i just sent a patch to have the globalkeys to switch touchpad mode |
| 22:28 | m_anish | tch, okay... next topic... |
| 22:28 | "accessibility -> fold into keyboard" | |
| 22:28 | tch | not sure what it means |
| 22:29 | any idea, someone | |
| 22:29 | ? | |
| 22:30 | m_anish | tch, no idea |
| 22:30 | bernie | tch: oh, we already have the notif system! |
| 22:31 | tch | bernie: told ya ;) |
| 22:31 | m_anish | bernie, any idea abt ^^ |
| 22:31 | alsroot, ^^ | |
| 22:31 | alsroot | m_anish: I guess we can leave "fold into keyboard" feature for dx3 :) |
| 22:31 | tch | i am still not sure what it means |
| 22:31 | lol | |
| 22:32 | bernie | m_anish: we have to add one more todo for dx2: |
| 22:32 | m_anish | just wants to be sure that this wasn't py feedback/requirement |
| 22:32 | bernie | "change color scheme of boot/shutdown splash screens" |
| 22:32 | tch | but does anyone actually understand what it means? |
| 22:33 | bernie | m_anish: you choose the colors. maybe use india... |
| 22:33 | m_anish | bernie, ok :-) |
| 22:33 | bernie | m_anish: orange and green look good |
| 22:33 | m_anish: the uruguay flag colors are not that nice for a sugar logo (light blue and white) | |
| 22:34 | tch | bernie: is just a matter of taste |
| 22:34 | haha | |
| 22:34 | m_anish | tch, bernie, :-) |
| 22:34 | "modem config -> context menu on the modem icon in the frame" is next. I'll check the prev item with roberto | |
| 22:35 | tch | i think it relies on the "not priority" find.. |
| 22:35 | field* | |
| 22:35 | bernie | tch: but the bg is also white... you see, it's really just one color :) |
| 22:35 | tch: korose! | |
| 22:35 | tch | bernie: deme! |
| 22:35 | m_anish | ^^ prob. not dx2! |
| 22:36 | bernie | tch: I feel like I'm doing a new step in japanese... now I understand some adverbs and more verbs |
| 22:36 | m_anish | bernie, tch, s/japanese/english/ :P:P |
| 22:36 | bernie | tch: even some conjunctions. like, "however" or "that can't be helped" |
| 22:36 | shikashi... | |
| 22:37 | tch | bernie: lol.. yeah i recognise some of those sometimes |
| 22:37 | m_anish | (here we go again...) |
| 22:37 | bernie | m_anish: yameru! |
| 22:37 | tch | m_anish: this is non-sense! |
| 22:37 | m_anish | translate.carlos.py isn't around, sorry |
| 22:37 | bernie | m_anish: they say "yameru!" when they mean "stop that!" or "enough!" |
| 22:38 | tch: impossible!! | |
| 22:38 | tch | checking http://users.tmok.com/~tumble/amfaqs/101glos.html |
| 22:38 | alsroot | basta |
| 22:38 | lets talk about TODO | |
| 22:38 | bernie | m_anish: ah yeah, carlos is the best otaku |
| 22:38 | tch | m_anish: chigau! |
| 22:38 | m_anish | bernie, just two more """Register Again creates duplicate xs icons on the volumes toolbar""" and """Journal sort by creation date - journal entries are being created with ctime=0 (41 years ago)""" |
| 22:39 | bernie | tch: what's chigau? |
| 22:39 | m_anish: I thought this was done? | |
| 22:39 | m_anish | both seem like bugs, /me dunno if fixed? |
| 22:39 | tch | i fixed the duplication thing months ago |
| 22:39 | bernie | m_anish: for the second one, we need to refresh the journal patches, I guess. the version that went upstream was slightly better |
| 22:40 | alsroot | "sort by creation" should work fine, will recheck ds and journal code |
| 22:40 | bernie | yeah, I wonder why they are in the todo list |
| 22:40 | m_anish | bernie, ah!, will do! |
| 22:40 | bernie | maybe recheck the register again bug |
| 22:40 | I can't from here | |
| 22:40 | tch | i dont have an xs here |
| 22:40 | m_anish | bernie, i think silbe has a list of such patches, which are different b/w dx and upstream |
| 22:41 | thinks we need a acronym for 'upstream' (so many chars) | |
| 22:42 | tch | utrm? |
| 22:42 | m_anish | bernie, tch alsroot so these two are done? |
| 22:42 | alsroot | I guess everybody agree if m_anish will be an "maintainer in the middle" as bernie said, to test push tested patches to dx git |
| 22:43 | m_anish | tch, ugly :( maybe translate upstream to japanese and then try |
| 22:43 | tch | in japanese would be upurusteruamo |
| 22:43 | way longer ! | |
| 22:44 | alsroot | people will email/review patches on dextrose@ and m_anish will apply/test/build them for testing purposes |
| 22:44 | tch | alsroot: +1, *2, ^2 |
| 22:45 | alsroot | m_anish: could you sort TODO-temp as well :), btw maybe having Dextrose/2 and Dextrose/2/Roadmap on wiki, like w/ sucrose |
| 22:46 | m_anish | alsroot, ya, will do |
| 22:46 | tch | yatta!!! |
| 22:46 | m_anish | and Dextrose-3/TODO |
| 22:47 | tch | btw.. anything else you guys would like me to ask/do in Ceibal offices? |
| 22:47 | m_anish | tch, till when are you thr? |
| 22:47 | tch | m_anish: for sure, the full next week |
| 22:48 | m_anish | tch, just interested to know if they |
| 22:48 | 're keeping a todo list | |
| 22:48 | :) | |
| 22:48 | alsroot | m_anish: ok, will send my patches to dextrose@ for reviewing and keeping in mind that you will apply them to git repo and create rpms |
| 22:49 | tch | m_anish: would be great to have the priority list to show them.. that might regain interest to work closely with us |
| 22:49 | m_anish | i mean, feature requests, etc. |
| 22:49 | alsroot, +1 | |
| 22:49 | alsroot | m_anish: btw wiki might look like http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.90 |
| 22:53 | tch | well, time to me go afk, |
| 22:53 | m_anish | alsroot, dx/TODO-Dx3 dx/TODO-Dx2-py and dx/Roadmap-py would be the new/modded pages |
| 22:53 | tch | great meeting :) |
| 22:54 | m_anish | tch, bernie alsroot thanks a ton!!! for the meeting :) |
| 22:54 | alsroot | back to obs patch, a bit of work before going to bad... |
| 22:55 | m_anish | goes outside to enjoy weather :) |
| 22:59 | bernie | alsroot: +1 to make m_anish our middleman! |
| 23:05 | m_anish: did I gave you my "uploadrpm" script? | |
| 23:08 | m_anish | bernie, yep |
| 23:17 | dfarning | tch, for the big picture we want to _show_ other deployments that onsite of m_anish/martin + upstream team of silbe/alsroot is the most effective way to help them solve their problems so that they will hire an onsite team from us. |
| 23:17 | satellit_afk is now known as satellit_ | |
| 23:17 | dfarning | onsite team. |
| 23:18 | part two will be showing that multiple onsite teams (at different deployments) working together is more effective than working alone. | |
| 23:20 | but, I don't really expect them to 'get it' quit yet. because it seems faster in the short run to use quick hacks to fix bugs. | |
| 23:21 | this leason of upstreaming and working together is usually not learned _until_ a group or company has tried to update to a new version and sees how difficult it is. | |
| 23:22 | 10 years ago every company that work with linux on embedded devices - used custom versions of the kernel. | |
| 23:23 | now, all the major embedded company stick very close to upstream. | |
| 23:24 | tch | dfarning: +1 |
| 23:24 | dfarning | I expect the next deployment to join dextrose will the olpc.au. Their CTO is very sharp and understands the collaborative development process. |
| 23:25 | tch, nice work today. you guys got a lot of important stuff done. | |
| 23:27 | tch the really valuable thing in my eyes is that you all were asking eachother 'do we have the resources to do that?' whenever someone suggested doing something cool. | |
| 23:33 | tch | :D |
| 23:50 | m_anish | tch, bernie plan to watch a anime video tonight, have a link?? |
| 23:52 | tch | http://www.animefreak.tv/watch[…]ubbed-online-free |
| 23:52 | watch it subbed | |
| 23:53 | bernie | m_anish: yes, take this very weird one: http://people.sugarlabs.org/be[…]untain_sleeps.avi |
| 23:54 | m_anish | bernie, tch i'll watch only one, which should I pick from the two? |
| 23:54 | tch | if it takes too long to download watch it online, using the link i just sent |
| 23:54 | bernie | m_anish: careful, this one isn't a light novel... it's for true lovers of the japanese culture. |
| 23:54 | tch | both are the same |
| 23:54 | hah | |
| 23:54 | bernie | m_anish: ah, both are the same thing ;) |
| 23:55 | tch | m_anish: everyone starts with one ;) |
| 23:55 | m_anish | :) |
| 23:55 | bernie | m_anish: I could also upload another one which is targeted at a wider public |
| 23:55 | m_anish: btw, are you sharing the apt with scs? you should ask him to show you a bunch of his japanese movies. careful! | |
| 23:55 | tch | m_anish: and then... sometimes... they become: technoRogy Niiinnjas! |
| 23:56 | bernie | tch: suburashi chinchin mono! |
| 23:56 | ye! ninja, kimazu!! | |
| 23:56 | tch | lol.. |
| 23:57 | but beware.. there is no way back... | |
| 23:57 | m_anish | bernie, wget ting |
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